Dark Zealots do too much damage

ThannyThanny Posts: 19
I have the Steam version of the game, which I recently noticed was update to version 1.15 (though the steam update news is not current, and I had to check elsewhere for the change list).

So Dark Zealots now do damage with their lightning attack. I always thought it was just a beacon for the Enslaved, which always show up after that attack (and it's arguable that they do too much damage, too). But fine, now it does direct damage. But it does WAY too much direct damage.

I'm playing a Vanquisher on Hard, and just ten minutes ago suffered my third instadeath from a Dark Zealot (normal, not champion). I don't remember my exact stats from the first two occasions (which surprised the **** out of me, because I didn't know there was an update that changed gameplay so drastically), but here's what my relevant stats are now (all elemental resistances listed, because I'm not certain the lightning attack is actually electricity):

Level 80
HP - 6325
Defense - 215 (1309-2615)
Poison - 454
Fire - 1100
Electricity - 826
Ice - 823

I was at full health when a level 67 Dark Zealot instakilled me with the lightning attack. That should not happen with my armor rating and health.

I was going to start up a Destroyer in **** mode, but it would probably be pointless while this flaw still exists. I'm quite sure he would be instakilled at some point, no matter how good I make his defense.
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Comments

  • **** I know right? I was getting so mad yesterday lol. I play on hard with a vanquisher who's level 71 right now. I must have been insta killed about 10 times in this one section of the shadow vault that had a lot of zealots in.

    My resistances arent as good as yours and I have about 2/3rds of your hp but the zealots were about the same level as me so I just presumed I needed to up my resistances. The thing is I never remember having a problem with them. For me It was always the charging ones I had to worry about.
    bfox88-1.png
  • ThannyThanny Posts: 19
    About a third of my health comes from a single item - a "unique" shield (I have three right now) that adds 2100 health. A few times, I've been brought down to less than 2100hp by a Dark Zealot, which means that without that one piece of equipment, I'd have been instakilled many more times.
  • My level 100 Vanquisher (hard mode) has ~2.5k all resists/~4.5k defense/~5k life and has been dropped over and over by level 70ish Dark Zealots since installing the 1.15 patch. I've had to resort to adding a second skeleton skill, with 10 minions+pet there's less chance of them targetting me...
  • BuioBuio Posts: 338
    So basically you need a huge health pool to have a chance to survive them. I'm not that high level, but it sounds to me they need to be tweaked back a bit after getting a buff (fix) in 1.15.
  • If you guys want I can make a quick mod which will revert the Zealots back to 1.13. Sounds like the easiest solution to what seems to be a horribly annoying "fix"
  • They don't need to be reverted to pre-1.15; they just need to be rebalanced now that their attacks actually work.
  • zebramatt wrote:
    They don't need to be reverted to pre-1.15; they just need to be rebalanced now that their attacks actually work.

    Yeah, but that involves a lot of work ;)

    Creating a mod which reverts the Zealots to 1.13 takes about ... 15 seconds.
  • I'm not 100% certain, but I think such a mod would be popular enough. With the builds I'm currently working on I'm quite afraid of those things, so if you made that mod I'd probably use it.
  • I'm not 100% certain, but I think such a mod would be popular enough. With the builds I'm currently working on I'm quite afraid of those things, so if you made that mod I'd probably use it.

    This is working off the assumption that the monster info .DAT I have for Zealots (playing version 1.13) contains the relevant information regarding damage. If it does not, I could always just remove the skill entirely from Zealots (since it seems that prior to 1.15 it did no damage at all). I'll put it up a bit later and you guy can let me know if it works.
  • Thanks for the effort.
  • FolkenFolken Posts: 149
    Thanny wrote:
    I always thought it was just a beacon for the Enslaved, which always show up after that attack (and it's arguable that they do too much damage, too).


    Agreed. Apart from the Elementals and those damned floating/glowing elemental spirit things, Enslaved are the only thing I genuinely worry about facing in combat. I don't have the new patch yet (bought the boxed version, now thinking of buying the Steam version ) so I can't speak to the lightning attack, but I have always question the ability of Enslaved to force my level 60 Alchemist (plus army of minions) into a full retreat. Even with Ember Shield up, their elemental damage takes a brutal toll - especially when there are a few Blood Disciples close by who dash in and take Ember Shield down anyway.
  • Alright, this is the 1.13 zealot file in a simple mod. Just install it to your mods folder and the Zealots should return to pre-1.15. If they don't, let me know and I'll just eliminate the skill from their inventory. Let me know either way, because I have no way of testing it (being that I'm running 1.13).

    Download:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?wmywjydygih
  • An early test suggests that patch does what it should, I died 3-4 times due to the Dark Zealot summoned things while waiting for them to zap me but as far as I could tell their lightning bolt did nothing.

    edit: I'm actually having trouble testing this, if I try killing the enslaved I end up killing the Dark Zealot as well and so I'm not sure exactly what's hurting me. Maybe someone else will have better luck. :D
  • Alright, this is the 1.13 zealot file in a simple mod. Just install it to your mods folder and the Zealots should return to pre-1.15. If they don't, let me know and I'll just eliminate the skill from their inventory. Let me know either way, because I have no way of testing it (being that I'm running 1.13).

    Download:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?wmywjydygih

    Thanks for this mod. I only play **** and lost already three characters to Dark Zealots. I feel a bit like a cheater, but on the other hand, Zealots are just crazy right now.
  • BuioBuio Posts: 338
    Folken wrote:
    Agreed. Apart from the Elementals and those damned floating/glowing elemental spirit things, Enslaved are the only thing I genuinely worry about facing in combat.

    I like having a challenge, but being one-shot ****. So if I play sloppy I should be punished, but if I just die doing the best I can something is wrong. Depends on player skill too of course, but that can be adjusted with difficulty.

    I guess we can't expect a quick fix from Runic either, because of the great number of different distributors and game packages. But it should be tweaked down in the next patch, whenever that will come.

    Also this goes to show that stacking res/defense isn't always the best option. Sometimes it's good to have a huge health pool.
  • http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/torchlightmods/node/449

    Rather than revert to v1.13 DZ functionality, you can either:
    • Download my quick-and-dirty rebalance above; or
    • Download Velari's Champions Mod, which does more or less the same thing!

    EDIT: Incidentally, it turns out that Runic didn't just fix the previous bug with Zealot Lightning but actually increased the weapon damage % from 90 to 150!
  • zebramatt wrote:
    http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/torchlightmods/node/449

    Rather than revert to v1.13 DZ functionality, you can either:
    • Download my quick-and-dirty rebalance above; or
    • Download Velari's Champions Mod, which does more or less the same thing!

    EDIT: Incidentally, it turns out that Runic didn't just fix the previous bug with Zealot Lightning but actually increased the weapon damage % from 90 to 150!

    Thanks for your effort!

    Only Zeus knows why they also had to change the amount of damage...
  • BuioBuio Posts: 338
    zebramatt wrote:
    http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/torchlightmods/node/449
    EDIT: Incidentally, it turns out that Runic didn't just fix the previous bug with Zealot Lightning but actually increased the weapon damage % from 90 to 150!

    So you just tuned down the attack values but kept the fixed lightning attack? Good stuff, cheers.
  • Yeah, let me know if you feel I've gone too far or it's still too powerful and I'll tweak it one way or t'other!
  • I just lost my level 36 VHHC Destroyer to these heinous cockshiners and their holy lightning bolt of insta-death. Absolutely ridiculous. :evil:
  • zebramatt wrote:
    Yeah, let me know if you feel I've gone too far or it's still too powerful and I'll tweak it one way or t'other!

    I just met my first Dark Zealot since installing your mod, it didn't kill me. Level 28 Alchemist, Hard mode, in a vendor map should it matter any.
  • zebramatt wrote:
    http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/torchlightmods/node/449

    Rather than revert to v1.13 DZ functionality, you can either:
    • Download my quick-and-dirty rebalance above; or
    • Download Velari's Champions Mod, which does more or less the same thing!

    EDIT: Incidentally, it turns out that Runic didn't just fix the previous bug with Zealot Lightning but actually increased the weapon damage % from 90 to 150!

    Nice. I wasn't entirely sure how the variables worked so I just left them the **** alone :D

    This gives people lots of options in dealing with it; I may actually check out your balance mod (it always struck me as odd that the Lightning attack did absolutely nothing at all!).
  • Between the acid darts and the lightning, no other unit in the game is so capable of inducing *rage*( as the Dark Zealot. Ugh.
  • ThannyThanny Posts: 19
    I just tried the mod out, and found some Dark Zealots to test with. I managed to get hit with lightning a couple times, bringing my health down to about half (would be down by about 75% if I didn't have the 2100HP bonus of my shield). I'm not sure the hits I got would have been the instakill shots - before the mod, I got hit by lightning and knocked down to maybe 15% health a couple times (which would have been instakills without my shield). So the damage may still be a bit high.

    Overall, between the lightning and Enslaved, I think Dark Zealots are more than a bit overpowered. Silence works well on them, but you have to get close enough, and I don't know if it stops the lighting attack (used that with my Alchemist, which I haven't played since the patch).
  • ThannyThanny Posts: 19
    OK, after a bit more playing, I have to conclude the posted mod doesn't nerf the DZ enough. I got instakilled twice - once by a normal DZ, once by a champion. The normal one was level 83 to my 85, and I had over 6600HP.

    I've altered the mod to make the lightning 25% instead of 50% (it's amazing that Runic thought 150% was sensible), and will see how that plays out.
  • Alright, this is the 1.13 zealot file in a simple mod. Just install it to your mods folder and the Zealots should return to pre-1.15. If they don't, let me know and I'll just eliminate the skill from their inventory. Let me know either way, because I have no way of testing it (being that I'm running 1.13).

    Download:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?wmywjydygih


    Where do I vote "10" for this link?
    I took my level 45 Vanq out for a stroll last night with a map scroll. It generated a Black Fort map and I couldn't get past the **** Zealots. After my 4th death I just rez'd back in town and said %$#& it.
  • Thanny wrote:
    OK, after a bit more playing, I have to conclude the posted mod doesn't nerf the DZ enough. I got instakilled twice - once by a normal DZ, once by a champion. The normal one was level 83 to my 85, and I had over 6600HP.

    I've altered the mod to make the lightning 25% instead of 50% (it's amazing that Runic thought 150% was sensible), and will see how that plays out.

    I have updated the mod accordingly. (I used 30% instead of 50%; and also realised I'd not included the reduced-damage polearm in the mod!)

    Same link: http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/torchlightmods/node/449
  • BuioBuio Posts: 338
    Thanks again.
  • Thanny wrote:
    I have the Steam version of the game, which I recently noticed was update to version 1.15 (though the steam update news is not current, and I had to check elsewhere for the change list).

    So Dark Zealots now do damage with their lightning attack. I always thought it was just a beacon for the Enslaved, which always show up after that attack (and it's arguable that they do too much damage, too). But fine, now it does direct damage. But it does WAY too much direct damage.

    I'm playing a Vanquisher on Hard, and just ten minutes ago suffered my third instadeath from a Dark Zealot (normal, not champion). I don't remember my exact stats from the first two occasions (which surprised the **** out of me, because I didn't know there was an update that changed gameplay so drastically), but here's what my relevant stats are now (all elemental resistances listed, because I'm not certain the lightning attack is actually electricity):

    Level 80
    HP - 6325
    Defense - 215 (1309-2615)
    Poison - 454
    Fire - 1100
    Electricity - 826
    Ice - 823

    I was at full health when a level 67 Dark Zealot instakilled me with the lightning attack. That should not happen with my armor rating and health.

    I was going to start up a Destroyer in **** mode, but it would probably be pointless while this flaw still exists. I'm quite sure he would be instakilled at some point, no matter how good I make his defense.

    When a lvl 80 character getting one-shotted by a lvl 67 is not what I would call "challenge". I think there is something wrong with it.

    It is even worse that it is an instant hit. If it's a projectile, we can at least try to kite it.

    I think it's a bug. It is not challenging anymore. It is frustrating! I've packed a lot more electricity resistance now. It works when it doesn't critical, when the lightning criticals, it is instant death for me. I am glad I am not playing **** mode.
  • VesuviusVesuvius Posts: 131
    zebramatt wrote:
    http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/torchlightmods/node/449

    Rather than revert to v1.13 DZ functionality, you can either:
    • Download my quick-and-dirty rebalance above; or
    • Download Velari's Champions Mod, which does more or less the same thing!

    EDIT: Incidentally, it turns out that Runic didn't just fix the previous bug with Zealot Lightning but actually increased the weapon damage % from 90 to 150!
    Hey, I just looked in my torchED folder and it still says 90 for me. Is there something I need to do to force it to update?
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