New to Torchlight and need help with vanquisher!

leloupleloup Posts: 7
So i just bought the game over thanksgiving weekend while it was on sale and I am really into it! the only thing is I have been so addicted to this game and been playing nonstop that i haven't really taken the time to look into the classes and how i should build my character. I've been playing for 20 hours or so and just hit character level 20 and am on floor 17 ta-something caverns. I just recently started looking into forums and all this is my second forum post ever! so please bare with me and my noobness and/or stupidity. So I am going to explain what i have done with my character so far and I would love it if you guys give me some feedback on what I am doing wrong and what i should be doing.
So I've been actively addicted to this game since friday night and haven't really taken the time to look into how i should build my vanquisher and how i should spend my attribute points and skill points. I basically have spent my attribute points in strength, magic, and defense. and as for skills i put most of my skill points in pet mastery, offensive spell mastery, and dual wielding. the current spells i have on my vanquisher are fireball II and heal self II.

Can anyone please explain to me how i should approach vanquisher? I am not sure what to do with my attribute points and skills points nor do i know what spells i should have for a vanquisher. PLEASE HELP!!!

Comments

  • dreamriderdreamrider Posts: 1,727
    For each class, the lion's share of attribute points should generally go to THE attribute that affects their form of combat the most.

    For a simple Destroyer, that is Strength.
    For a simple Alchemist, that is Magic.
    And for a fairly normal Vanquisher, who does a lot of shooting, the key attribute is Dexterity (sorry, but you asked.)

    There are variant builds possible for each class where you would emphasize other things, and there are experienced (and successful) players of Very Hard, **** mode who would say that for VHHC, Defense should get the most points of every advancement, but in general the above focus holds true. Hover the cursor over each attribute on the character sheet, and over the associated damage/protection value range, and you will get some descriptions of how the attributes affect your combat/play.

    Beyond the main focus attribute, a bit of each level advancement can pe profitably allocated to one or more supporting attributes. Most often this is Defense, but from time to time you may want to do some pumping of a non-primary attribute in order to equip a particular piece of juicy gear that you have found that has a minimum attribute requirement. Also, there are some Class Active Skills that use the curren values of two attributes as the base damage value for the Skill, usually with some bonuses added on. One of those Skills is almost always your class' primary focus attribute, but if your style of play is relying heavily on that particular Skill, you may want to build up the second damage source attribute a bit.

    Basic Destroyers are generally built either 3 Str/2 Def or 2 Str/3Def for most levels of advancement, unless there is a special reason to pump an alternate attribute.
    Basic Alchemists have a bit more variability, because of various Skill demands, but in very broad terms most often built on a 3 Magic/2 other pattern, or a 2 Magic/1 Def/2 other pattern.
    Basic Vanquishers are usually built on a 3 Dex/2 Def/occasional other pattern, or even on a 4 Dex/1Def/occasional other pattern. I favor the latter myself, but she is rather a "glass cannon"; be prepared to move her around a lot to avoid incoming fire rather than endure it long enough to get your shots in.
    There are even a few extremists around who espouse a 5 Dex level-build for Vanquishers, but that's a REAL glass cannon (I guarantee you they are people who do not play HC, and who do not mind dying A LOT.)

    Note that, for reasons that I will not detail completely here, there is very little reason to ever build up Magic in a Vanquisher, except to occasionally add a little for a nice piece of gear. Suffice to say that additional Dex will usually give a Vanq the same benefits that any Magic points will, and will be applicable to more other attacks/Skills as well. (The Skill Stab is an exception, but that Skill doesn't seem to be favored by too many players.)

    For Skills, start by focusing on either the Marksman tree or the Arbeiter ("Trapper") tree. The Rogue as a primary focus is mainly if you want to build a Melee Vanquisher, which I don't recommend until you have played the game awhile (and no longer need my advice. <grin>) However there are a few Skills on the Rogue tree that are good supporting Skills for any Vanquisher, especially a little bit of Wind of Justice, and some of the Shared Skills like Armor Expertise. Actually, about half or more of your skill points should probably go into very useful Passive Skills , taken from any tree. For instance, I think everyone should eventually have a healthy allocation to Critical Strike.

    Oh, and you don't need to take every Active Skill on a particular tree to be quite effective. Focus on 2-3 of them. For example, on the Marksman tree, there is little reason to build up both Ricochet and Frost Pilum. Likewise you may not need both Explosive Shot and Arrow Hail, since both are Area of Effect damage Skills (although there are more differences there than between Rico and FP.)

    dreamrider
  • so basically i have been putting my points into the wrong places.
    Time to restart a new vanquisher.
    Thank you very much for your help!
  • dreamriderdreamrider Posts: 1,727
    Well, I know those who would say it is never wrong to put points in Def if you are playing VH, especially VHHC -- but, yeah, pretty much.

    For Skills, I personally love Ofensive Spell Mastery, especially if I've got Offensive spells on my pet as well as some on my avatar.

    Dual wielding depends entirely on what primary weapons you favor; it is a great Skill if you are making full use of it. I like to keep my Vanq as far away from the teeth and claws as possible, so I mostly equip with crossbows or rifles, but I have used dual pistols effectively on occasion. Most old-hands say that on VH, however, pistol and shield is a more effective (read: survivable) close-range combination, with as much Block % as you can arrange; and Dual-wield Skill points are a waste unless you are actually going to stick with 2x 1-hand weapons.

    Pet Mastery, for a Vanq, is a later nice-to-have, not an essential. After all, you are generally in a safe place when you send off your pet, and you can always wait 90 seconds or so for the pet to come back. Go get a Coke.
    Unless you are building a trapper! There are a couple of the Arbiter Active Skills that scale somewhat with Pet Mastery; only in the latest patched version, however. I don't think that it is obviously noted in the game descriptions, so check out the v1.15 patch notes, or search the forums. I haven't played a trapper yet, so I'm not keeping the details in bio-random-access memory.

    If your Vanq is to be a shooter, then Ranged Weap Expertise, Ricochet (though not necessarily ALL levels of it), Crit Strikes, and when it becomes available, Explosive Shot are the early Skill leaders, with a little Wind of Justice, maybe some Armor Expertise. When you can get to it, Block & Parry is a universal favorite. I personally favor Adventurer heavily, and Offensive Spell Mastery; some Vanq players never use either one. Experiment with Seeking Shot - its proponents favor it not for 3 targets, but for fights with 1 boss where all 3 shots will hit the one target; personally I think Ricochet will do more damage for the points invested and the clvl reached, and Explosive Shot is more flexible.

    dreamrider
  • RagingGamerRagingGamer Posts: 324
    edited November 2010
    In anything other than VHHC -

    Some points in Strength if you want to have better armor choices. In higher levels you will find gear with rather high +Stremgth so it's up to you how much to add, if any. I don't usually take my Gun Vanq's str above a natural 20.

    Some points in Defense can likewise improve choices you can make in armor and shields. It also improves your - ready? Defense. If you aren't playing VHHC it's really up to you on Defense. Death isn't much of an obstacle in other mode/difficulties.

    I play my Softcore Gun Vanq's as glass cannons. I throw everything into Dex. This can lead to a LOT of deaths. The number one cause of a glass cannon's deaths are: Things that dash (especially if they critical) like Goblinhiounds, Blood Minions/Disciples, the melee Tu'whatever lizard men and things that are simply OVERPOWERED like oh...I don't know... Dark Savants/Servants that one-shot you into oblivion with their Electrical nuke.

    When playing a Glass Cannon Vanq mods to look for:

    Faster Cast
    Faster Cast
    Faster Cast
    +% Critical Damage
    +Critical Chance
    +Faster Attack (to a much lesser degree, this only applies to non-skill attacks in general)

    Things to look for if you want to die less:

    +% Reflect Ranged Damage (you would aim for 100%, the amount reflected is less important)
    +Electric Resistance
    +Fire Resistance
    Higher Defense
    Blocking
    +Ice and Poison Resistance (not so important if you have 100% Reflect Ranged Damage)

    Resistances aren't what you may be used to seeing in other games, they aren't a percentage. Your total resistance for an element is basically damage absorbtion. If you have 400 Electric Resistance, 400 points of damage per attack is negated.

    If you are playing Softcore I recommend you eventually get Treasure Hunter and Barter if you plan to play to 100.

    Spells are really about playstyle. I know Dream and I have playstyles that diverge quite a bit and we use different spells for our Vanqs. Here are my choices for Gun Vanqs:

    Summon Zombies 6, Summon Skeletons 6, Haste 6, Elemental Protection 6

    For Pets I take Frost, sometimes Zombies, sometimes Web, sometimes Fireball, sometimes Heall All.

    Recommendations for skills for first time Softcore Gun Vanq build:

    When it comes to easy/normal/hard softcore and gun/bow vanq I prefer Explosive Shot. It's simply extremely high damage AoE output, to the point it's laughable once you have high critical chance, high damage, fast cast.

    I start by tossing the first few points into Ranged Weapon Mastery, in order to lower weapon requirements. At clvl 5 I begin working on Critical Strikes, Armor Expertise is good for lowering armor reqs so you can either work on both or just 1. Any points you can't spend can be tossed into Ranged Weapon Mastery. Eventually you want to max all 3, it's up to you how you progress through them.

    At level 10 Defensive Spell Mastery and Adventurer become available. Eventually you want to max these. It depends on what you deem most critical of the two as to which you advance first. In most cases what I end up doing is working up all the skills I have mentioned to rank 5 then finishing them off one at a time. While some take Adventurer for the experience boost, I see it more as a critical need to not die to being overwhelmed, the potion effectiveness is the main reason I take this skill.

    At level 15 you get Explosive Shot. This is, in my opinion, the defining Gun Vanq skill. I put 1 point in it, then work up Critical Strikes or finish off Ranged Weapon Mastery then Critical Strikes, then go back and finish off Explosive Shot and the previous skills. Fletchette Trap is worth mentioning, eventually if you play towards 100 I recommend taking it and maxing, but only after every thing else. Still, even with 1 point in it it can be invaluable for stun-locking casters like Dark Servants.

    At level 20 you get Block and Parry, Barter and Devouring Trap. In my play I end up maxing all 3, but generally speaking only after my core build is complete. In Softcore play, don't bother with these until you have finished the main quest line and have completed your general build.

    25, the last level for skills, you gain access to Arrow Hail, Treasure Hunter, Hamstring and Advanced Spell Casting. The only skill worth considering while working through the quest line would be Arrow Hail. It's up to you, I tried it, its effective, but I prefer Explosive Shot. There are some difference in these skills, Arrow Hail is not a line of sight skill, you can hit mobs behind barriers, on differing elevations, etc. It also has a hidden Dex bonus, and if you go glass cannon and dump everything into Dex, its a very solid skill choice. Explosive Shot gains no benefit from Dex. The other skills I listed are notable, but totally unnecessary for the quest line. Advanced Spell Casting is really only useful much later if you have taken Fletchette Trap and Devouring Trap, as they are mana intensive. Hamstring is a 1 point wonder, useful for rushing levels and stuff.

    So with all that said, I prefer these skills on a Softcore Gun Vanq:

    Ranged Weapon Mastery
    Armor Expertise
    Critical Strikes
    Defensive Spell Mastery (at least 5-7 before Ordrak for Haste and/or Elemental Protection durations)
    Adventurer
    Explosive Shot

    These should be concentrated on while doing the quest line. After the quest line or you finish your core build the following are suggested skills to consider:

    Block and Parry
    Barter
    Fletchette Trap
    Treasure Hunter
    Advanced Spell Casting
    Devouring Trap
    Mares eat oats and does eat oats but little ghouls eat Ivy.
  • dreamriderdreamrider Posts: 1,727
    I think anyone should put one point into advanced Spellcasting as soon as it is available, then think twice or three times before devoting any more precious points.
    The reason being that 1 lvl of Adv Spellcasting DOUBLES the rate of mana recovery. Every later point into the skill effectively has progressively less effect on a percentage basis.

    dreamrider
  • I just started Torchlight and i already figured out my build, and i`ve only been playing for 2 hours. I have alot of experience from all three Diablo games and all Fate games. I also have more experience from Realms of Ancient Wars and Crimson Alliance, i`ve beaten them all on the hardest dificulty. Anyways in Torchlight im a level 16 or 17 Vanquisher and i love dual-wielding. I prefer puting most points in marksman and only spend points on the dual-wielding skill. For the attribute points I prefer putting 2 points in strength, 2 points in dexterity, and 1 point in Defense for every level. There are some weapons i prefer, one of them is a fast pistol ,if you can find one, and an axe that steals atleast 11 health per hit.
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