Freezing

MrBionicMrBionic Posts: 16
edited November 2011 in Support Discussions (Xbox)
Hello. I just bought Torchlight for the XBLA yesterday on launch day. I must say that I am having a blast with this game, and it's one of the best Dungeon Crawler experiences the Consoles have ever seen (and I LOVE dungeon crawlers!!). However, there is an issue that I, and a few other people I know on XBLA, have already experienced.

As we've gone further into the game (and usually starting right around level 15, or around when you start hitting the Etheria floors), the game really starts to get laggy and bogged down. I notice hitching issues and micro-freezes start happening quite regularly around this time, and only start to get worse as the game goes along. Ultimately, the game will start freezing completely, requiring a hard-boot of the 360 system.

Nothing I have tried so far seems to really fix this issue. I have tried clearing the 360's cache. I have tried letting the system cool down between freezes. I have tried quitting out of the game and restarting it periodically. I have pretty much done everything except delete and re-install the game. I was hoping that maybe I could get some help here before resorting to that final method, but I'm not really sure that would be effective either. I suspect that there just might be some kind of memory caching issue within the game itself that clearing on the 360 system doesn't fix? It's to the point where I open up a town portal every 15 minutes just to auto-save the game so I don't lose TOO much if I freeze.

To summarize:

- Lag and frame-rate bog down becomes increasingly noticeable and frequent after reaching Etheria levels.

- Freezing begins to happen more and more frequently shortly after noticing the bog downs.

- Issue has been reported to me from multiple sources on XBL.

If we could get this looked into, I'd appreciate it greatly!
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Comments

  • I can confirm this.
    Didn't start until around then, though little framerate drops were there earlier.

    Severity ranges from must a couple skipped frames all the way to 3 or 4 seconds of pausing. The most extreme lock ups have only happened a couple of times.

    Thanks for the awesome XBLA title Runic!
  • Brids17Brids17 Posts: 97
    Interesting that the PC requirements for this game are so low and yet the 360 has so much trouble running. I've had a few problems with freezing as well. Evey time its happened during a loading screen however, which means I never lose as progress. Can't say exactly when it happens though, as I never really pay attention.
  • travisbaldreetravisbaldree Posts: 1,665 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm looking at it now. I think it has a lot to do with the wisps and their crazy missile particles.
  • MrBionicMrBionic Posts: 16
    I'm looking at it now. I think it has a lot to do with the wisps and their crazy missile particles.

    Thank you. Yes, I noticed that those tend to really mess things up. I'm also freezing a lot during the whole next section as well, after you go to investigate the earthquakes, and you're in those caverns with the suspended rock formations and the rope-bridges.
  • travisbaldreetravisbaldree Posts: 1,665 ✭✭✭✭
    Lots of green wisps there too I think -
  • No problems here, aside from a few dropped frames (and I mean just a few) when things get really busy.
  • Black Palace (Floor 6 of the caves) is locking up a few times. Does not look like it has to do with the number of enemies on screen, and All that is really around when it has are Spiders.
  • Brids17Brids17 Posts: 97
    I'm looking at it now. I think it has a lot to do with the wisps and their crazy missile particles.

    It's not just those. I have framerate issues when I kill those zombies that create a poison mist too. Especially when there's like 30 of them. >.>
  • travisbaldreetravisbaldree Posts: 1,665 ✭✭✭✭
    I've done some particle optimizations today for the Title Update - hoping those'll help you out.
    Also some collision optimizations and some tuned down bonkers particles on a few different missiles and explosions.
  • MrBionicMrBionic Posts: 16
    I look forward to seeing how it works!

    Thanks! You guys really do rock. A few other developers could take a couple of pointers from you :D
  • I've done some particle optimizations today for the Title Update - hoping those'll help you out.
    Also some collision optimizations and some tuned down bonkers particles on a few different missiles and explosions.

    Wow thanks in advance! I noticed this too, and at first I thought my xbox was going to RROD again when it locked up. But the game usually continues in about 4-5 seconds. I also notice that the frame rate gets really choppy the longer I would play, or the more monsters on screen. It was really giving me a headache, because I couldn't respond sometime to the action and my character got killed.

    Any chance that the frame rate could be optimized some more too? Also why do almost all recent xbox games have screen tearing? When you move around it looks like parts of the screen are updated at a fraction of a second different causing screen tearing. Is it a limit on the xbox horsepower?
  • Cobra951Cobra951 Posts: 37
    It's a limit of the performance of the game on the system. It's unfair to blame it all on the system, because the game code could be optimized further. At some point, development cost and time rear their ugly heads, and the game gets released in a less-than-perfect state.

    Screen tearing is caused by the system changing a frame while the screen is in the middle of drawing a frame. So you see part of one frame above or below part of the previous one. This can be avoided by waiting for vertical retrace (vsync) which means force the system to update the display only when the screen hardware is in between drawing frames. While that eliminates the tearing, it also incurs a performance penalty because of the waiting involved.
  • FlawlessFlawless Posts: 2
    i just found this on google as i had my xbox freeze twice on me tonight while playing this....first time was going through the waypoint after defeating Oldrak...the 2nd time was on the 5th level of the endless caves.

    it also seems as if the framerate gets worse and worse as i go on even after going to different levels,sort of like a buildup...guess ill have to put this game down until the update :(
  • travisbaldreetravisbaldree Posts: 1,665 ✭✭✭✭
    On VSYNC - we DO VSYNC, but if the FPS ever drops below 30 we cut it loose and let it update as it likes.
    One of the drawbacks of a random game is that you can get sudden bursts of CRAZY units and particles that you can't predict
  • MrBionicMrBionic Posts: 16
    Flawless wrote:
    i just found this on google as i had my xbox freeze twice on me tonight while playing this....first time was going through the waypoint after defeating Oldrak...the 2nd time was on the 5th level of the endless caves.

    it also seems as if the framerate gets worse and worse as i go on even after going to different levels,sort of like a buildup...guess ill have to put this game down until the update :(

    Not necessarily. You just have to be smart about it. I've actually not encountered the freezing again after I took a few minor steps:

    - in areas I know there will be a little more animation and mobs, I'll take things a little slowly. I'll pull more and take things out in smaller groups, or individually if I can.

    - I open and enter a portal to town ANYTIME I get either a set gear piece, or armor/weapons/etc. that are better than I have. This way, if I do freeze, I haven't lost anything really important. I also open a portal anytime that I think I've gone too long without one. Again, simply to counter if I do freeze I don't lose much. Just remember, any time you enter a portal or other instance, it auto-saves.

    - I shut down to the character screen after an hour, then restart. This actually helps a lot, in my case.

    These steps seemed to have helped a lot, and I am no longer so frustrated :D Hopefully the update fixes things permanently (or much better than it is), but until then, I can still play the game with a very reasonable amount of success.
  • JorlenJorlen Posts: 25
    Don't suppose there's any way to implement a particle effect setting in options (i.e. low/medium/high) in a future patch? The spell effects get so crazy at points I don't even know what I'm looking at :)

    BTW - Great game and thank you for porting it to XBLA! I also loved Diablo and Fate too :)
  • thejewkthejewk Posts: 8
    Just to add some information to this topic.

    My character has just hit lvl 76 and I'm at about level 50 of the endless dungeon. For the last 5 or so hours of gameplay I have been experiencing regular game freezes that lock up the system and require a hard reboot of the console.

    It happens often when switching floors or going through portals and it freezes on the loading screen which sometimes saves the progress and sometimes does not. I have also had it freeze in gameplay when running the '20-??' maps which I imagine is due to the constant spam of Dark Zealots, Elementals and those **** orbs.

    Other than that it's a corker of a game, just hope we can get this fixed as it is becoming annoying losing a few levels progress multiple times in a day.
  • JohnnieJohnnie Posts: 6
    Out of curiosity, are any of you playing a Summoning Alchemist?

    I have experienced quite a bit of freezing and frequent hard lockups when I play my Summoner with his pets running around. The lockups usually occur when using portals. Actually, the lockups have only occured when I use any type of portals. I got a bit tired of this, so decided to start a Vanquisher.

    1 Troll Pet
    6 Imps
    2 Golems
    3-6 Skel Warriors at any given time
    5/6 Skel Archers (forget how many are summoned)
    3 Zombies (from pet)
    Skel Warriors/Archers (from pet)

    I have experienced almost none of the above when I play the Vanquisher. Very limited freezing and zero lockups so far.
  • I play an arkane alchemist who can also summon for deviation purposes. the framerate is pretty bad when I spam all my monsters, use double wand casting and major spells all at once. the game yesterday locked up the first time during actual gameplay because of that. otherwise it only happened while accessing the leaderboards. I probably won't touch the game again until it is safe to play without freezes. :/
  • 9mind9mind Posts: 1
    I play a destroyer and I'm currently level 62 in the Shadow Vault.

    I am also experiencing the freezing issue, BUT not only. The game has now become unplayable. After 5 minutes in it crashes my XBOX to the point I have to shut it off, and turn it back on. This is not acceptable. I have redownloaded and cleared the cache on my 360, and nothing is helping. The random slow downs and stopping I can deal with, but not crashing my 360. I enjoyed the game and it didn't start crashing until the Shadow Vault levels, but I can't recommend anyone else to buy it knowing that this can happen. This is one of the new 360s and does not happen with ANY other game.
  • EternaTeaEternaTea Posts: 27
    Edit - Possible reason for freezes/Workaround:

    It seems that the quests related to/completed in the Shadow Vault may be what are causing my game to lock up. Abandoning/not picking up quests from Vasman has been the only way I've been able to complete floors of SV. When I have these quests the lock ups are very frequent, and keep me from playing the game. The quests given by Valeria and Gar also appear to cause problems, but I can (usually) manage to get through an entire floor when I have their quests in my log. I have completed 7 floors of SV since discovering this, and it seems to have helped a lot.

    Additionally, I now have a "Gleaming Ember" permanently stuck in my inventory. This happened when I was playing with my quest log (after deciding that it may be a problem), I abandoned the quest Vasman gave me for floor 11 and was still able to pick up the item for that floor. The Ember is not sell-able or destroyable, so it's taking up a spot in my stash for now.

    I am still getting some graphics hiccups/minor freezes, probably due to being a summoner with all imps and golems, as well as having summon spells attached to my pet.

    Edit 2 - As a final note, it seems that taking a portal of any kind (town portal, phase beast, mysterious map, etc.) about midway through each level may be helping to prevent lock-ups. These lock-ups are NOT occurring in town, and have also YET to happen on any floors where I do not have a quest to complete.

    Players who still have the main story Ember quests in their log, and who have also completed the game/entered the SV, may wish to go back and complete (or abandon) these quests before continuing in SV.

    Edit 3 - Lock-ups are still occurring, only when I'm in combat, and much less frequently than before. Out of ideas on what to try from here.

    Original post:

    Thought I'd throw in some of my own info on these freezes. I've also been getting them since I began the Shadow Vault, and the freezes (a full-on lock of my xbox) have been occurring with increasing frequency the further I go into the vault (@ lvl 13 currently). The issue has gotten so bad that I can no longer complete a single floor.

    The freezes have been pretty random, sometimes occurring while I'm in combat with multiple enemies, and sometimes occurring while I'm in a clear space with no enemies present.

    I'm a lvl 59 Summoner specced Alch, with lvl 42 Fame. My current equips include the following:

    Weps - Epic Ophidian Venom Sprayer (7 Effects/1 Socket) & Powerful Epic Thunder Brand (4 Effects/1 Socket).

    Armor - Epic Gorgon Boots (17 Effects/2 Sockets), Epic Dragonslayer Shoulders (11 Effects/1 Socket), Gorgon Gloves (22 Effects/2 Sockets), Epic Tlaloc's Butress (8 Effects/1 Socket), Epic Gunslinger Torso (7 Effects/2 Sockets) & Graven's Crystal Helm (10 Effects/2 Sockets).

    Jewl - Epic Midas Chain (8 Effects/2 Sockets), Epic Midas Ring (5 Effects/1 Socket) & Aiming Segmented Ring (5 Effects).

    My stats are set up as 92 Str, 70 Dex, 218 Magic, 130 Def using this spec http://bit.ly/hnSZ11 (Not sure if that link works, oh and I have 1 pt in Rng Wep Exp that I forgot to list...I need to respec and remove that lol). I'm 20hrs & 52 minutes in, I'm using the Ice Angel pet and I have the following spells:

    Heal All VI, Retribution V, Haste VI and Poison Cloud.

    That's all the info I can think of that could end up being relevant. Love the game, glad to finally have it on my Xbox, hope this gets fixed soon.
  • thejewkthejewk Posts: 8
    OK so after enduring regular lock ups of my Xbox, with the only fix being a complete hard reset of the console, on my Destroyer for almost the entirety of ths Shadow Vault I decided to put the character to one side and start another. I just made an Alchemist on Hard mode and it xxxxxxx locked up within the first hours of gameplay...

    I was hoping that it was something character specific, or at least specific to a piece of equipment or a particular skill, but now I'm starting to think that it is just completely random.

    The game as locked up on me while using portals a **** of a lot, during busy fights with buffed enemies, randomly while walking in an empty area and now while in town. I seriously hope that this is resolved in the update or we at least get a comment about the problem from Runic soon. It seems like they have recognised the minor hiccuping of the game but not actually commented on the fact that a lot of people (strangely not all) are experiencing complete game crashes.
  • EternaTeaEternaTea Posts: 27
    It does worry me that this issue hasn't made it into the current state of the game thread =S
  • Cobra951Cobra951 Posts: 37
    Well, I don't know if it's an issue for everyone. I have never had the game lock up on me. I'm on Floor 19 of the Shadow Vault. No fatal flaws to report so far. My character is a Vanquisher.

    Edit: Try this. It's a relatively small download, so this shouldn't take forever with decent internet speeds. Delete the game file (NOT your save file!). Download something slightly bigger than the game from XBL: arcade trial, videos, whatever. Then redownload Torchlight. See if it behaves better. Alternately, move the game file to a big-enough memory card or a USB stick, and try it there.

    I'm after fragmentation here, trying to minimize it or eliminate it. If there's corruption in the file or a bad spot in the HDD, this would take care of it too. (Not moving it to a memory card, though. That would just copy the corrupted data.)
  • EternaTeaEternaTea Posts: 27
    Cobra951 wrote:
    Well, I don't know if it's an issue for everyone. I have never had the game lock up on me. I'm on Floor 19 of the Shadow Vault. No fatal flaws to report so far. My character is a Vanquisher.

    Edit: Try this. It's a relatively small download, so this shouldn't take forever with decent internet speeds. Delete the game file (NOT your save file!). Download something slightly bigger than the game from XBL: arcade trial, videos, whatever. Then redownload Torchlight. See if it behaves better. Alternately, move the game file to a big-enough memory card or a USB stick, and try it there.

    I'm after fragmentation here, trying to minimize it or eliminate it. If there's corruption in the file or a bad spot in the HDD, this would take care of it too. (Not moving it to a memory card, though. That would just copy the corrupted data.)

    I know several players have tried deleting/reinstalling/moving the game file to different storage devices, and it hasn't seemed to help anybody.

    I doubt it's a corruption issue, since all players experiencing these lock-ups aren't seeing them until they begin the SV, and the freezes grow more frequently as you descend through more levels. It would be quite the coincidence if all of our game files were corrupted in the exact same way, or our HDDs for that matter.

    Still, solid advice, and it may actually help some players.
  • gke1gke1 Posts: 10
    I started a thread on this (it was on my mobile, and didn't look around the threads, apologies) and would like to add some more info on what was going on when the freezes started

    as i said it all started after unlocking the shadow vault as some others have experienced. couldn't help but notice though it wasn't until after i backed out of 5 right near entry to 6, going to town for some things, then resuming at the entry from Torchlight itself @ floor 1 of SV

    also im referring to full freeze, complete lock up gotta reset etc :

    -never had any vendor glitches whatsoever, still do not
    -never froze anywhere except in the SV's first 5 floors, and 5 was particularly nasty. all were pretty bad though
    -i played through the first 5 floors more than a few times before freezing started, and 100% positive the freezing has also been accompanied by the first 5 floors being retooled somewhat little / more in terms of layout
    -never once froze in town

    should be mentioned i have never froze while in the middle of any map scroll. someone mentioned in another thread to pop one of those during the middle of a freezing SV level to break up the tendency of the game to do so, and i gotta say its so far so good at least while in the portal. game still has frozen afterward

    and lastly for now, i dunno if anyone else has experienced this but speaking of the map scrolls - since the lock ups started all teleport scrolls work fine, but are the exact same palace rim layout, every time bar maybe one exception i can think of and that one was still palace rim just a slightly different layout
  • EternaTeaEternaTea Posts: 27
    I sent an email in to support about some issues I've been having, mentioning the lock-ups as well as a few other issues. Here's what BrianW had to say about the freezing:

    "This update will also be including some performance optimizations
    which, hopefully, should take care of some of the issues you've been
    experiencing."


    So fingers crossed that the title update will handle this issue for us =)
  • ianmagusianmagus Posts: 16
    First off, love the game, been playing it the whole week, finally cleared it last night on Very Hard and retired my character to try out a new one and see how much faster I could progress now the second time. Unfortunately, I have had two freezes. I've noticed most of the problems seemed to be related to the game crashing once things got really busy. While I have had more than a few moments of slow down when there are tons of characters on the screen (which I expect, there's only so much it can handle at one time), the two freezes happened during moments when the screen wasn't busy at all. The first was last night on Ordrak, got him down to around 10% and the game froze, with only me, my pet and Ordrak on the screen. Worked fine the second time. Just had another crash now on "Estherian Ruins - Floor 2" in the endless dungeon. I was out of combat, so there wasn't anything graphically intense going on, not sure why it would have crashed. Also had an incident last night in the endless dungeon getting stuck on a wall. I tried the bumper method but it didn't do anything...fortunately I had some portal scrolls, wouldn't let me zone out with the first two, but it finally let me zone after using the 3rd scroll.
  • gke1gke1 Posts: 10
    If anyone needs a temporary fix til the update here's what I tried and its working for now:

    - game is on HDD, save on USB
    - I have dropped all quests related to SV

    saw someone's advice regarding the quests, and just decided to say **** with anything related to the vault and had a solid 2 hours with no freezes. Which is a profound miracle, the vault at least temporarily is working fine
  • thejewkthejewk Posts: 8
    Just an update on my previous post. I have experienced no crashes on my Alchemist beyond the first one in town and have just finished the story dungeon on Hard. Obviously I'm now going down the Shadow Vault so we'll have to see what happens from here...

    I really want to get back on my Destroyer and hope that the update sorts this out. I'd love to see how far down I can actually survive.
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