exporting files from max and other programs

jamesLjamesL Posts: 3,568
edited August 2009 in General Modding
on the runicgames fansite travis wrote
http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/rgffor ... port#p3170
tbaldree wrote:
... I'm using 3dsmax 2009 right now, ...
Other 3d packages are OK as well ... our exporters let you rescale the entire scene at that point, including with skinned meshes, to avoid nonsense with 3dsmax' inability to rescale scenes with skinned rigs

Travis

I have a question about the last part
OUR exporters let you ...

does that mean you wrote your own 3dsmax to ogre mesh exporter ?
if so, will you be releasing it as part of the preditor ?

or does OUR mean the regular exporter available on the ogre site ?
and just to absolutely sure about this, is TL is using standard ogre mesh files ? or are you using a custom format ? and the exporter takes our .max, .blend, .obj files and converts them to your format ?
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Comments

  • heronheron Posts: 637
    i think TL will have its standard format like fate would .. mdl/sms/etc

    soo .. they will most likely have export plugins for 3dogre/3dsmax/etc which will spit out these formats.

    that's my guess!
  • jamesLjamesL Posts: 3,568
    yeah, you're probably right

    I just hope they, I or somebody can come up with some blender stuff

    I found out that point helpers in blender are called empties, but no one seems to know how to assign user defined properties to them
    I've asked on a couple of forums and everyone just replies "instead of modding, why don't you just create a game in blender, it comes with its own game engine"
    so, not very helpful
    I know the ogre exporter for blender first writes the blender mesh to an xml file and then you use a 2nd tool to convert the xml to an ogre mesh
    I'm know I can edit the xml in notepad, I was hoping I could just insert the custom properties by hand in there
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  • heronheron Posts: 637
    i think it's too early to do experiments or learn TL modding until all the tools are made available.
    you can practice with blender's basic functionality i guess for the time being.
    but i would definitely wait until an official release... time is precious for me atm ;)
  • Travis rewrote the Ogre Exporter for Max. But the format it writes to is still the Ogre format. It saves it first to XML and then converts it to a binary just as you described Blender doing. We are planning on releasing our Max exporter.
  • jamesLjamesL Posts: 3,568
    hey thanks so much for that info
    that's really helpful and informative

    I know in FATE they used point helpers and then assigned user defined properties to them and then the game would use those properties to determine where to place merchants, questgivers, the dungeon entrance and even sound
    I've looked at Blender, MilkShape, AC3D, Wings 3D, Misfit Model 3D and others, but none seem to allow the assignment of custom properties for point helpers
    if you use this same mechanic in TL I guess I should be able to edit the xml and put that info in there by hand
    I've done lots of SQL Server programming with xml so I have a decent understanding of it

    but I guess I'll take Heron's advice and wait for more information on the tools and what's available :D

    thanks again
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  • jamesL wrote:
    I know in FATE they used point helpers and then assigned user defined properties to them and then the game would use those properties to determine where to place merchants, questgivers, the dungeon entrance and even sound

    All our NPC's, tags, dungeon entrances are done via the editor now.
  • heronheron Posts: 637
    Bebop wrote:
    jamesL wrote:
    I know in FATE they used point helpers and then assigned user defined properties to them and then the game would use those properties to determine where to place merchants, questgivers, the dungeon entrance and even sound

    All our NPC's, tags, dungeon entrances are done via the editor now.

    very nice! thanks!
  • TiptoeTiptoe Posts: 184
    Bebop wrote:
    Travis rewrote the Ogre Exporter for Max. But the format it writes to is still the Ogre format. It saves it first to XML and then converts it to a binary just as you described Blender doing. We are planning on releasing our Max exporter.

    Fantastic news! How about throwing an importer in there as well? Cause I desperately want some way to get the Torchlight models (or more importantly, the animated skeletons) out of Ogre and back into Max for editing :mrgreen:.
  • Tiptoe wrote:
    Fantastic news! How about throwing an importer in there as well? Cause I desperately want some way to get the Torchlight models (or more importantly, the animated skeletons) out of Ogre and back into Max for editing :mrgreen:.

    Doing an importer might be a bit more difficult especially with our limited time. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an ogre to max converter out there already though. Also I really don't see why we wouldn't release the raw(max) versions of our characters. There might be some legal reason but if not I imagine we will.
  • TiptoeTiptoe Posts: 184
    Bebop wrote:
    Also I really don't see why we wouldn't release the raw(max) versions of our characters. There might be some legal reason but if not I imagine we will.

    That would be perfect! It makes creating new content so much easier :mrgreen:.

    Animating something from scratch is a **** of a job. But if we can re-use the existing animations for new characters and creatures, that would be ideal.

    Having access to the animated skeletons will open up a whole world of modeling possibilities. This is a must have in my opinion! Without it, I think content creation will be very limited :cry:.
  • jamesLjamesL Posts: 3,568
    Tiptoe wrote:
    ... Without it, I think content creation will be very limited :cry:.

    what about my deadly animated cube and cylinder ?
    they're deadly I tell ya, vicious and deadly ! Arrghh !
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  • TrappskiTrappski Posts: 214
    jamesL wrote:
    Tiptoe wrote:
    ... Without it, I think content creation will be very limited :cry:.

    what about my deadly animated cube and cylinder ?
    they're deadly I tell ya, vicious and deadly ! Arrghh !
    A Gelatinous Cube?!
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  • ombraombra Posts: 1,008
    jamesL wrote:
    Tiptoe wrote:
    ... Without it, I think content creation will be very limited :cry:.

    what about my deadly animated cube and cylinder ?
    they're deadly I tell ya, vicious and deadly ! Arrghh !

    hrhr, can't stand the wait to see these kind of mobs in action. *shiver* :lol:
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  • ambeerliambeerli Posts: 1
    edited August 2009
    How do you make a characters' lips move using autodesk 3ds max? I wanted to know how do you make a character's lips move like they are talking using autodesk 3ds max?
    ___________
    viewtopic.php?f=6&t=191&p=3234#p3234
  • ambeerli wrote:
    How do you make a characters' lips move using autodesk 3ds max? I wanted to know how do you make a character's lips move like they are talking using autodesk 3ds max?

    Either Bones in the jaw (simple)
    Helpers placed arround the lips (medium)
    or Morphers (best)

    not sure what TL uses, but those are the three most common. I am a huge fan of morphers, as they get wonderful results (Oblivion uses morphers)
    Helpers also work quite well, but here most dialog has to be animated manually i think.
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  • TiptoeTiptoe Posts: 184
    I really doubt you'll see any animated faces in Torchlight (in cutscenes perhaps, but definitely not in game). The polycount for the characters simply isn't high enough to support facial animation.

    To give you an idea. This is a model from the game Drakensang (which supports facial animation):

    hipolyhead.jpg

    As you can see, this character has a very high polycount. It also has a mouth cavity, teeth and tongue modeled.

    But Torchlight is aiming for a much lower polycount of around 1500 polygons for its characters. So something like the following model is what I'd expect to see:

    lopolyhead2.jpg

    Notice that this model has been modeled with a closed mouth (the mouth cannot open) so facial animation isn't possible.

    This isn't a bad thing. For a game like Torchlight, where the camera is some distance from the character, you really won't notice it. It also makes content creation much easier, trust me, low poly models are much easier to model than high poly models :roll:.

    Hope that answers some questions :mrgreen:.
  • Tiptoe wrote:
    rust me, low poly models are much easier to model than high poly models :roll:

    well... that depends on how you are educated and how low poly you go :P

    I learned to model back in the days of Half life 1, so i have no problem modeling between 300 and 1000 poly.
    but i find really high poly (20 000+) rather difficult.

    A friend of mine however was educated in 3D recently, and is used to ZBrush. So he has a tough time modeling anything below 20 000 poly :P

    Also, it might be possible to have jaw movement in TL, but not lips.
    Allowing the jaw to move up and down requires only about 4 - 10 extra poly
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  • JBeckJBeck Posts: 424 ✭✭✭✭
    We don't do facial animation in Torchlight except for the creatures where mouths are a big design feature and bites, screams, spits, etc. need to happen.
    Playable characters and NPCs have no facial animation.
    This is one of those choices that helps to allow us to make a game like this in the timeframe we've got.
    Since 95% or more of the game would be exactly the same with or without it...and our camera distance would barely show it anyway...it's a good trade for us.
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  • AttackGorillaAttackGorilla Posts: 1,656
    JBeck wrote:
    We don't do facial animation in Torchlight except for the creatures where mouths are a big design feature and bites, screams, spits, etc. need to happen.
    Playable characters and NPCs have no facial animation.
    This is one of those choices that helps to allow us to make a game like this in the timeframe we've got.
    Since 95% or more of the game would be exactly the same with or without it...and our camera distance would barely show it anyway...it's a good trade for us.
    Thank **** for this. I personally am tired of developers spending all their time on lipsynch and eyebrow expressions. I really could care less if my action/rpg had emotions from the Sims. For the amount of time that has to go into it I would prefer they concentrate on something else. I remember HL2 was all hyped about facial expressions and junk like that, but when I actually played the game they could have had paperbags over their heads and I wouldn't have cared because I wanted to play and action shooter game with physics, not play the Sims with guns. *not trying to rag on sims as I have spent plenty of time on that as well...
  • DushoDusho Posts: 988
    Is there some kind of summary, what number of polygons will (and should) be used for chars, weapons, furniture and other stuff?
    Any fansite with wiki for modders ?
    EDIT:
    I guess, post viewtopic.php?f=6&t=272#p2982 answers my first question. Sorry for posting and only after that using search function. Still it would be nice to have those info centralized..
    I may have additional question, though.
    So currently there will be support for diffuse maps only (no normal maps, no specular maps, ...) - I guess partially because of time needed to do models with those maps. But will there be a possibility to add those maps and use them in render (game) in future? As modders may add additional objects - add they may have time or possibility to make it nicer with those maps. Graphic cards with simplest shaders shouldn't be a problem for any gamer by now, I guess. And I would hate to see people telling "No.. I don't play TL.. because I have better hardware.. so I can play more demanding games" - it sounds like a joke, but there are people like that.
  • PufflesPuffles Posts: 169
    JBeck wrote:
    We don't do facial animation in Torchlight except for the creatures where mouths are a big design feature and bites, screams, spits, etc. need to happen.
    Playable characters and NPCs have no facial animation.
    This is one of those choices that helps to allow us to make a game like this in the timeframe we've got.
    Since 95% or more of the game would be exactly the same with or without it...and our camera distance would barely show it anyway...it's a good trade for us.
    Thank **** for this. I personally am tired of developers spending all their time on lipsynch and eyebrow expressions. I really could care less if my action/rpg had emotions from the Sims. For the amount of time that has to go into it I would prefer they concentrate on something else. I remember HL2 was all hyped about facial expressions and junk like that, but when I actually played the game they could have had paperbags over their heads and I wouldn't have cared because I wanted to play and action shooter game with physics, not play the Sims with guns. *not trying to rag on sims as I have spent plenty of time on that as well...

    HL2 was actually more about the story and the connections you develop with the characters than being an "action shooter game with physics." Many people felt an actual connection or attraction with Alyx in that game - something that surely would never have happened if her face wasn't animated. Given its cinematic nature, the facial expressions in that game were a very important part of the experience.

    However, I will agree that investing time in developing facial animation for an action RPG is usually not the correct choice. Mythos had no facial animation, and it honestly felt like absolutely nothing was missing. After all, Mythos and Torchlight aren't about having cinematic storylines - they're about going into dungeons, beating the **** out of the bad guys, and getting epic loot. Therefore, most of the developer's time should be spent tweaking the gameplay and making it more addicting and downright fun.
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