Give Torchlight 2 native version for Linux!

xprisPLxprisPL Posts: 11
edited April 2012 in TL2 General Discussions
Hi Folks.
I'm from Poland and I am an avid fan of the game Torchlight.
However, the issue really bothers me, namely the lack of native Linux version of the game.
Of course the game can be run through Wine, but it is troublesome, I get errors and can not guarantee proper operation.

Since the port was the game for the Mac OS, why such a port could not be created also for Linux?
If a native version for Mac is a conversion to Linux should not be a problem now.

Yes, yes I know, Linux is a platform for a niche, however, as demonstrated by recent studies on the Linux users can earn more than even on a Mac and a little less than on Windows - even though there are far fewer. It's obviously a problem of piracy, because most people using Windows, simply download a pirated version of the Internet. Exactly, and research shows Linux users do not take pirates just bought legally. And if you are able to pay any amount to play, you pay about 2 to 3 times more than users of other systems.

Very regret that we do not officially released the Steam client for Linux, then the problem could not be. Contrast, as illustrated by the recently formed Desura client, version for Linux, and as it turns out has a great interest. This shows that Linux has potential.

And as the statistics show - even W3Schools - Linux is not 1% but more than 5% - and here comes a lie big corporations affect the rankings. Besides, the community itself says that Linux is more than one percent.

Since even Rage is looking forward to a native version for Linux, why would Runic Games have not prepared anything like that?

Give the community a chance, see, check, and to convince that Linux could such a game as much help Torchlight. You have a lot of benefits from this.

Since the Mac could perform the conversion, the port of the game the more it will be possible to also for Linux. Native version, port to Windows or Mac will not be hard to do. You just need the desire, good will and trust, and believe that you have it.

Please Make a port, the native version of Torchlight 2 for Linux, I write a sequel because the conversion of the first version probably will not be profitable, why do it though with the second installment.
Please tower, with it may go.

Yours, one of the fans of the game.
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Comments

  • hawknhawkn Posts: 8,348
    There have been countless threads about this.

    1. There isn't enough profit from doing it to make it worth the time.
    2. There are too many version of Linux, from what I understand.

    It's simple math, really. Which is more appealing? A 5% market share, or closer to 90%?
    ...I most certainly am not the meanest person on these forums, I defer that position to hawkn. ~ AMB2010
    I7OBI.png
    Runic Games Fansite My Deviant
  • I cast my vote in support. Hawkn, you are right that there are too many "versions" of linux. Windows has a unified installer approach - one .msi or .exe is all you need, assuming all prerequisites such as MS2005 redistributable, or .NET framework, are met. Linux has a package approach, which uses version-controlled modules to build/install an application with.

    The closest equivalent to .exe in linux is a shell script installer, like Nvidia or ATI use to distribute their linux drivers. But that is a big huge mess to maintain.

    If we had steam, that would be a different story. But still, the game is openGL, I believe, so packaging it up for ubuntu, debian, suse, and redhat would not be an insurmountable task. I would buy a copy for linux.
  • xanixani Posts: 583
    hawkn wrote:
    It's simple math, really. Which is more appealing? A 5% market share, or closer to 90%?
    According to that simple math, mac port didnt had any sense, as mac have a bit over 5% market share now, and less back when TL1 was released.

    The thing with Linux ports is, when you do it adding a Mac port is very little work, as both have OpenGL graphics and there are some sound libs common to both platforms.

    http://www.humblebundle.com/ have some interesting stats, while its about indie games, amout of linux and mac users is about same, but linux users pay more on average. Even if there is more macs overall, that doesnt mean amount of gamers follow same trend
  • OmnifasOmnifas Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭
    There's also social psychological reasons they port to Mac and not Linux. If you choose platforms you tend to pick the ones you and your friends/family use. In this case it's Win/Mac.

    About the humblebundle, it's not that linux users are more generous, it's far more likely that they have more to prove, they want more support, so by donating more they show they are worth developing for(although there is no way to prove either), it's just human nature.
  • hawknhawkn Posts: 8,348
    There's a difference in 200,000 people paying $5, and 10,000 paying $15, when with TL2 they would all have to pay $20.
    ...I most certainly am not the meanest person on these forums, I defer that position to hawkn. ~ AMB2010
    I7OBI.png
    Runic Games Fansite My Deviant
  • first: +1 for a native Linux release
    hawkn wrote:
    There have been countless threads about this.

    1. There isn't enough profit from doing it to make it worth the time.

    How do you know without giving it a try?

    The install base of Linux deployments is actually much larger than people tend to think, especially in places like Brazil, India, China etc. It's impossible to know for sure, since Linux mostly isn't sold, so it doesn't have a "market share". But just to throw in a number: Ubuntu is aiming for 200 millions installs 4 years from now [1]. That is an ambitious plan, but they are going to be pretty big even if they fall short of that number. And that's just one distro!

    You should also consider that gamers on Linux are starving for quality games, so any high quality game that is released for them will surely be popular.

    I will also link to this post about how many indie developers are planning to target Linux in upcoming releases [2]. Interestingly more than PS3 and Xbox 360, according to that survey.
    hawkn wrote:
    2. There are too many version of Linux, from what I understand.

    That can indeed make it more complicated, but I don't think it's a serious issue. First, with a DEB and an RPM, you got the vast majority of the desktop installs covered. Second, I'd think that you need to cope with different versions of Win (or MacOsX) as well; Third, packaging and dependcy management is generally MUCH saner on Linux. Once you used a package manager on Linux, you can never go back to the stone age that is MSI installers. Fourth, I'm 100% sure that the Linux crowd will be very forthcoming to help with the packaging if Runic would reach out to them. There are some very dedicated chaps in those communities who would certainly put in some voluntary effort to help make the game run on their OS. Those are not all hobby programmers, btw., for example Ubuntu has an app store run by Canonical, and their employees would certainly be interested to help get the game into their store. [3]
    hawkn wrote:
    It's simple math, really. Which is more appealing? A 5% market share, or closer to 90%?

    Of course they will release for Windows, but the idea is that making a Linux port in addition to the Mac port may not be that much extra work and may be worth the effort.


    [1] http://www.techdrivein.com/2011/05/goal ... -in-4.html
    [2] http://2dboy.com/2011/10/03/xbla/
    [3] http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/features/u ... are-centre
  • JBeckJBeck Posts: 424 ✭✭✭✭
    My personal opinion...stepping into the Linux space is a job for the large publishers. They've got the funding to take those kinds of financial risks, while small studios often don't or simply can't take on the risk.
    If they can prove that it's a wise investment, others will follow suit.
    Time and resources are realities that force tough decisions regarding our desires. - BECK
  • WebbstreWebbstre Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭
    Or in other words, Runic's too small to be able to do that and make it worth the time investment. ;)
    Administrator/Former Owner of Runic Games Fansite. Be sure to visit RGF for all your Torchlight series needs![/color] Don't forget to check out ModDrop as a one stop solution for installing and sharing mods easily!
  • hawknhawkn Posts: 8,348
    Maybe you're better off asking for WoW on Linux? ;)
    ...I most certainly am not the meanest person on these forums, I defer that position to hawkn. ~ AMB2010
    I7OBI.png
    Runic Games Fansite My Deviant
  • JBeck wrote:
    My personal opinion...stepping into the Linux space is a job for the large publishers. They've got the funding to take those kinds of financial risks, while small studios often don't or simply can't take on the risk.
    If they can prove that it's a wise investment, others will follow suit.

    There's actually a bunch of indie games being sold in Ubuntu software center.
    If you don't do it for every Linux version you should consider releasing it after the game is released and have it on the Ubuntu Software Center.
  • hawknhawkn Posts: 8,348
    I wouldn't say Runic is so small that they have to resort to indie (i.e. desperate) measures to sell their game.

    Like Beck said, if Activision or EA pull it off, I'm sure Runic would look at it.
    ...I most certainly am not the meanest person on these forums, I defer that position to hawkn. ~ AMB2010
    I7OBI.png
    Runic Games Fansite My Deviant
  • recon5recon5 Posts: 202
    I believe that the game will have low enough requirements to run smoothly on emulated Windows. Mac OS users regularly do it for games which are significantly more resource hungry- it's most of today's 'Mac gaming scene', actually- so Linux users should have no problem since their OS is lighter as far as I know.
  • hawknhawkn Posts: 8,348
    I ran Torchlight fine in Bootcamp, and with several Windows emulators. TL2 shouldn't be much worse.
    ...I most certainly am not the meanest person on these forums, I defer that position to hawkn. ~ AMB2010
    I7OBI.png
    Runic Games Fansite My Deviant
  • turnipzturnipz Posts: 1,308
    Theres not many games for linux, so those that are available are generally put pretty high on a pedestal. So I dont think it would be that bad of an investment, but you could at least make it easily ported to Wine.
  • BrianWBrianW Posts: 2,308 admin
    Although it might sound like a trivial proposition to simply recompile the Torchlight 2 Mac port for Linux, given that one is Unix and the other is a Unix clone, this is really a lot easier said than done. Although it would probably be possible to make the game work on Linux -- given the fact that OpenGL works, Ogre works, and the game code is fairly portable -- it really comes down to a question of time. After we release on PC, we still have to actually do the Mac port, which involves finding out the answers to a number of lingering Mac-specific questions, so doing this won't be an overnight process. Once we've finished with that, in order to do a Linux port, we would still have to re-answer just about all of those same questions (plus a few extras) starting from square one.

    TL;DR: we'd love to do it, but we can't do everything we'd like to do.
    BrianW
    Community Manager // Mr. Nice Guy

    Join us on Discord! https://discord.gg/runicgames
  • krialkrial Posts: 5
    When it comes down to it, there's really no benefit. Everyone knows that us Linux users will find some way to play it anyway, whether it be in Wine or VirtualBox/VMWare, having a separate Windows partition or some other means. They'll get the same amount of money from most of us, and that offloads the time and effort they would have to spend porting. Sure, we absorb most of that time and effort and spend it trying to force the game to work where it wasn't intended to, but we should be used to that by now.

    We really have to wait for some mid-range companies to get the ball rolling. Small companies won't, or can't afford to, spend a little time doing it - and big companies don't want to bother until they have to do it to compete.
    Common sense isn't so common anymore.
  • OmnifasOmnifas Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭
    Unlike Linux, Mac(Apple) can push for a bigger market share if they wanted to, thus more incentive to port to Mac. Linux doesn't really have a "business" side to it, no one to push for anything. As horrible as it sounds, Linux needs a large corporate backing before anyone will adopt it as a Mainstream OS which is the only way larger developers with enough man power will "consider" developing on it. A niche following isn't gonna change anything, you need a corporation.
  • Omnifas wrote:
    Linux needs a large corporate backing before anyone will adopt it as a Mainstream OS.

    Wow, the misconceptions about Linux just keep amazing me... Fact is, ALL THREE big desktop oriented Linux distros are backed by companies:

    Ubuntu -> Canonical
    Fedora -> Red Hat
    SUSE -> formerly Novell, now Attachmate

    I'm not sure what a "large corporation" is in your opinion, but Red Hat has > 3000 employees, and the others aren't tiny either.
  • Webbstre wrote:
    Or in other words, Runic's too small to be able to do that and make it worth the time investment. ;)

    Well, it's not like it hasn't been done before. As an example, World of Goo has been released for Linux and I have reason to believe that they did well. Quoting from their blog (again):

    "More copies of the game were sold via our website on the day the Linux version released than any other day. This day beat the previous record by 40%. There is a market for Linux games after all :)"

    source: http://2dboy.com/2009/02/12/world-of-go ... -is-ready/

    Keep in mind that World of Goo was made by 2 (in words: two) guys, so if they can manage to release on all platforms, why couldn't Runic?
  • WebbstreWebbstre Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭
    To give you some perspective, Microsoft has around 90,000 and Apple has around 60,000, not including subsidiaries. A quick search reveals that Red Hat has around 3,000 employees and makes 909 million a year, while Apple makes 108 Billion and Microsoft 69 Billion. It's really a complete different ballgame.

    All that aside, the devs have given their thoughts on why they aren't doing it, and that's the best anyone can hope for around here.


    Edit: Responding to your additional post, you can't compare little games like World of Goo to something like Torchlight. Something two guys can make has way less code to deal with, compared to something that takes 30 people to make. The time/effort to port scales with the time/effort to create.
    Administrator/Former Owner of Runic Games Fansite. Be sure to visit RGF for all your Torchlight series needs![/color] Don't forget to check out ModDrop as a one stop solution for installing and sharing mods easily!
  • MyxMyx Posts: 71
    Linux can only really be considered a niche capability on traditional Desktop PCs. My experience with running Torchlight on Wine under Linux was flawless and better than on native windows on the same computer.

    In the server room Linux is king having dethroned traditional Unix systems several years ago thanks to dominance from x86 platforms. Red Hat is on target to become the first ever billion dollar open source company.

    In the post PC era, Linux is big business on both smart phones and tablets via Android set to become the dominant platform backed by Google. How cool would Torchlight be on a tablet? I'm not suggesting they support Torchlight on Linux for PCs, but perhaps Runic should be looking seriously at the mobile and tablet market if they aren't already.
  • OmnifasOmnifas Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭
    No misconception here, I knew linux has a few corporate backings, but nothing on a Large Scale.

    Only way I see something Linux being "successful" on desktop is if Google scrapped ChromeOS based on Linux designed to run web apps. They create a Linux based OS that would directly compete with Apple and Microsoft.

    Google is the only moderately large corporation(30,000 employees) that would be able to go against M$ and Apple in the Desktop OS Market. They fought Apple in Mobile OS using Linux and currently is beginning to take control of the market share.

    *Edit:
    It's not the amount of code. WoG has 2 people, so they don't have 30-40 $50,000 salaries to pay, that alone is 1.5 million in risk. Would Linux generate back 1.5 million dollars? Or even a third of that? Gaming communities keep talking about Risk vs Reward in their games, we'll heres one for Real life. You risk 1.5 million, for what?
  • DakiarisDakiaris Posts: 235
    mrpinsky wrote:
    Webbstre wrote:
    Keep in mind that World of Goo was made by 2 (in words: two) guys, so if they can manage to release on all platforms, why couldn't Runic?

    Simple answer is there's a whole lot more assets that are used meaning a whole lot more work... World of goo was a very very simple game if you actually look at the files and stuff... There were so few files it shouldn't have been a problem for 1 of them... However Torchlight 2 will have a whole lot more files and would require quiet a bit of recoding to get it to function on the new file structure.. Runic is only around 20 some odd people *correct me if I'm wrong one of you yellows* so I don't see how this could be done without delaying the **** out of the game.

    Also it's been brought up about the many many versions of linux that are available. I think the main problem is there's no 1 version that's widely used like Windows or OSX so choosing one might not be good for the rest.
    Why do I do the things that I do? For the lulz little one..... for the lulz!
  • xanixani Posts: 583
    BrianW wrote:
    Although it might sound like a trivial proposition to simply recompile the Torchlight 2 Mac port for Linux, given that one is Unix and the other is a Unix clone, this is really a lot easier said than done. Although it would probably be possible to make the game work on Linux -- given the fact that OpenGL works, Ogre works, and the game code is fairly portable -- it really comes down to a question of time. After we release on PC, we still have to actually do the Mac port, which involves finding out the answers to a number of lingering Mac-specific questions, so doing this won't be an overnight process. Once we've finished with that, in order to do a Linux port, we would still have to re-answer just about all of those same questions (plus a few extras) starting from square one.

    TL;DR: we'd love to do it, but we can't do everything we'd like to do.
    What about Wine ?. For those who dont know what it is, its basically windows/directx API ported to Linux/MacOS, that allow a lot (http://appdb.winehq.org/) of windows programs/games to run on that platform without porting them. Only thing needed is to make sure game works with Wine and pack it into nice installer and done (yes I know it's not that simple but still)
  • BrianWBrianW Posts: 2,308 admin
    xani wrote:
    What about Wine ?. For those who dont know what it is, its basically windows/directx API ported to Linux/MacOS, that allow a lot (http://appdb.winehq.org/) of windows programs/games to run on that platform without porting them. Only thing needed is to make sure game works with Wine and pack it into nice installer and done (yes I know it's not that simple but still)

    Yep, there are lots of ways to get Windows games to run on Linux. We had some recommendations for installing the original Torchlight game on Linux, posted here: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=18273

    I can't guarantee that these suggestions will work for TL2, so we'll have to see.
    BrianW
    Community Manager // Mr. Nice Guy

    Join us on Discord! https://discord.gg/runicgames
  • Did you consider Google's Native Client?
  • FrostyNinjaFrostyNinja Posts: 197
    Why do people who use Linux want to play games? For ****'s sake, it's a developers OS...
    L5cCH.png
  • turnipzturnipz Posts: 1,308
    Thats true, I mean with windows crashes and overall lack of features and speed it is the perfect supplement to anyones gaming addiction.
  • D2HansD2Hans Posts: 3,030 ✭✭✭
    Linux is a great OS. I have been using it for 10 years now. I also use Windows as well. Most games I play on Windows since that is the platform it was designed for but some Windows game run very well on Linux with Wine. There has only been a few games ported over to Linux either from the game company or from fans.
    "Six... one, six... the nuuuumber ooof the beeeaaast!"
  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭
    Why do people who use Linux want to play games? For ****'s sake, it's a developers OS...

    Why not?
    ItfooQF.png
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