Dungeon Siege 2 vs. Torchlight 2

adoomgodadoomgod Posts: 4,270
So, I've been playing Dungeon Siege 2 with the Broken World expansion, and I have to day it's a great feeling. The game is just really good, even though dungeons aren't randomized! DS2 tends to rate at 8.6+ and DS2BW at around 6.3. Why the big difference? The additional story is dull and linear.

I think the added content was great and overlooked though- in DS2 skills had a hard cap of 20, and +skill items couldn't go over them, making it pointless to max skills. In BW they raised the soft cap to 30, so u could only invest 20 skill points into any skill but with items you could go ten lvls over the limit.

I'm fuzzy on the past, but if it hasn't been confirmed, please Runic, let our items push us over the cap.

-In DS2+BW there are FOUR HUNDRED AND THIRTY set and unique items. It feels great. I tried using a mod that gives me 99999% more magic find and makes it so I can only find rares sets and uniques. Even after playing 20 minutes I was still finding new gear within a close lvl range!

Please Runic have 400 plus unique,set items, and give a good majority of them plus skill effects. In DS2 there aren't many skills to spend points in so you end up with multiple and uniques to choose from that specifically benefit the same build. This is great, getting to choose between a set or a bunch of uniques that benefit me in almost the same way.

-DS2BW rips off diablo 2's rune word system but in a fun way. There are hidden enchantment recipes that require you use the right base item type with the right reagents and when put together you create a powerful unique item, one that can't be found off monsters, only thru enchanting.

Please Runic make high level enchanting do something special in terms gear that low level enchanting didn't and please make certain uniques fishable/only craftable/only etc.

Seriously tho, soft skill lvl caps + tons of loot. Go to gamebanshee's DS2 unique and set item list. It will make you excited.
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I put the "DOOM" in "****."
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Comments

  • QueenchQueench Posts: 256
    Ds 2 is to slow for me, wolrd details isn't perfect too and actually I have tired of it, so I haven't finished him all, sorry, but for my its terrible game TQIT many times better.
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  • I tried searching for "Quake 3 Arena vs Torchlight" thread but couldn't find it. Maybe I am on the wrong website :P
  • QueenchQueench Posts: 256
    I tried searching for "Quake 3 Arena vs Torchlight" thread but couldn't fine it. Maybe I am on the wrong website :P
    Thats sad, becouse there is like thousand discussions about TL 2 vs ??...No point, but people do it :D
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  • FrostyNinjaFrostyNinja Posts: 197
    I assume you bring up a discussion of this game series after our lovely conversation last night, Doom...
    IMO the Dungeon Siege series (excluding DS3) are a hidden gem. They were severely underrated in the past when they came out, and just got lost into the oblivion of thousands of other RPGs barely worth the time looking at. Sadly, Dungeon Siege was not meant to be in that group, if I may say so. These games alongside their expansions are my all-time favorites and nothing, literally NOTHING can replace them. As much as I love Torchlight (and am really excited for TL2) it can go no further than DS on my top games list. Dungeon Siege 1 was the first game I ever got (still have my CD of it, bad part is I can't find my DS2 copy) and will forever be my most absolute top favorite.
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  • MeemoMeemo Posts: 644
    This comparison is wrong, it's not possible.. In dungeon siege 2 you had a Party A.I, much like the dragon age series but more like the never winter series.. The combat was fluid and explosive, but you really only have 1-2 super useful ability per character within the party..

    Torchlight on the other hand has an entire bar of skills (assuming core mechanics didn't completely change from the first game), these skills have synergies.. No such thing exist in dungeon siege 2.

    It would make a lot more sense to compare torchlight to diablo, then dungeon siege 2 :\ .. Also dungeon siege 2 had no gameplay depth at all.. you just hold down a button and faceroll everything.. the combat was as easy as rolling your face on your keyboard regardless of what gear you had..

    Furthermore dungeon siege 2 wasn't underrated, it was plain crappy, neverwinter 2 did the strategic side of the dungeon crawler genre justice, while diablo 2 (and lod) did the pure action part of the dungeon crawler genre justice. Dungeon siege 2 was just flat out mediocre, or average if you're feeling generous... Then they went and made dungeon siege 3... Went from a niche fanbase, to no fanbase at all..
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  • carrierxcarrierx Posts: 493
    I'm with Doom..

    Dungeon Siege 2 was allot of fun. I was bummed when they messed up Dungeon Siege 3's gimped multiplayer....
    I need to see Stanos
  • adoomgodadoomgod Posts: 4,270
    "This comparison is wrong?"

    Ok, let's try keeping an open mind.

    Both are rpgs, both have a level cap of 100 with newgame plus and plus plus, both have four classes.

    And if you didn't like it, I could care less, it was rated really well and did somethings very right.

    If you actually READ my first post, I take SPECIFIC parts of DS2 which I think can apply to TL2.
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    I put the "DOOM" in "****."
  • QueenchQueench Posts: 256
    I think old school games wasn't so great bocouse of when we live more we learn more, game creators now realeses many games with more detailed wolrd and amazing dungeons and world places like we can see at Tl2 screenshoots, more interesting features and things, ds 2 is like 30 % ( for me ) as Tl 2 has already what I have see from screenshoots and gemplays. And I dont know why, but it was the first arpg that I didn't finished becouse of get borred...I dont like ds 2 graphics too...D2 was great without these days features and was unique, but ds 2 was not even compered with how people likes it and play, it was some brr dont know like simple game...Well Tl2 looks like be more then D2. MY OPINION <---HERE
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  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2012
    Meemo wrote:
    This comparison is wrong, it's not possible.. In dungeon siege 2 you had a Party A.I, much like the dragon age series but more like the never winter series.. The combat was fluid and explosive, but you really only have 1-2 super useful ability per character within the party..

    Torchlight on the other hand has an entire bar of skills (assuming core mechanics didn't completely change from the first game), these skills have synergies.. No such thing exist in dungeon siege 2.

    It would make a lot more sense to compare torchlight to diablo, then dungeon siege 2 :\ .. Also dungeon siege 2 had no gameplay depth at all.. you just hold down a button and faceroll everything.. the combat was as easy as rolling your face on your keyboard regardless of what gear you had..

    Furthermore dungeon siege 2 wasn't underrated, it was plain crappy, neverwinter 2 did the strategic side of the dungeon crawler genre justice, while diablo 2 (and lod) did the pure action part of the dungeon crawler genre justice. Dungeon siege 2 was just flat out mediocre, or average if you're feeling generous... Then they went and made dungeon siege 3... Went from a niche fanbase, to no fanbase at all..

    This. Personally, It's kinda silly to comapare a game that came out so many years ago with a game that isn't even out yet. Dungeon Siege II kinda sucked, IMO. The series was just meh, the only reason I really liked the first one was the story. I actually enjoyed Nox way more than any of the Dungeon Siege games. And Doom, really man, you're the one not keeping an open mind. The dude just offered their opinion. I mean, if you enjoyed it, awesome but it's kind of rude for you to ask peoples opinions and then get all snippy about it when theirs happens to disagree with yours.

    You might enjoy knowing that there are over 1,400 uniques in Torchlight II. No idea how many set items, but i'm sure it's going to be a very large number.
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  • adoomgodadoomgod Posts: 4,270
    Zidders wrote:
    You might enjoy knowing that there are over 1,400 uniques in Torchlight II. No idea how many set items, but i'm sure it's going to be a very large number.
    Zidders wrote:
    there are over 1,400 uniques in Torchlight II.
    Zidders wrote:
    1,400 uniques

    homina homina homina!

    Where did you get that number?!
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    I put the "DOOM" in "****."
  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭
    JD Wiker made a comment on his JD Wiker facebook page that he had just realized he'd named over 1,400 unique items in Torchlight II.

    "Jd Wiker
    At Runic Games today, someone observed that Torchlight II has over 1,400 unique items.

    Nearly every last one of which I named.

    Achievement Unlocked!
    Unlike · · Unfollow Post · February 2 at 7:27pm near Seattle, WA
    "
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  • Dungeon Siege 2 is brilliant!
    Not so good points are story and graphics (for today standarts), but the gameplay mechanic is absolutely well done.
    A satisfactory loot system that is well balanced and a nice skill system that makes sense within the limits of this game.
    The only other games that can compare are D1/2 and Titan Quest (that's the other totally underrated game besides DS2). Sorry, TL is only good but nothing more.
    Though my hope is high that TL2 will reach the high standards of above gems ^^.
  • QueenchQueench Posts: 256
    Zidders wrote:
    JD Wiker made a comment on his JD Wiker facebook page that he had just realized he'd named over 1,400 unique items in Torchlight II.

    "Jd Wiker
    At Runic Games today, someone observed that Torchlight II has over 1,400 unique items.

    Nearly every last one of which I named.

    Achievement Unlocked!
    Unlike · · Unfollow Post · February 2 at 7:27pm near Seattle, WA
    "
    I like uniques a lot, but looks like you guys forget about thing like ''unique'' when items called unique become like you can find 1400 or more unique so how that item can be call a unique ???? ( please dont tell anything dislike becouse I really think that my words are right ) and in Tl2 one there was a lot of uniques I had but their was with a lot of sucky stats and even their looked similiar to each other on the picture in my inventory so I really don't feel like I get unique item.....When you get unique on d2 then you can say that this item is strange, unique and different from others...I better choose 500 unique items, but really more better detailed in everything...And dam if there is 1400 unique so how many items there are different not just unique ??? This makes my think like their create items like in half minit....You want make it good - you need to work on it not to just spam...
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  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭
    Fair question, Queench, and I understand what you're saying. Sure, there are probably some unique boots that use the same model as a regular pair of boots, the only difference being they have a different paint job, but it would be unrealistic to expect 1,400 seperately modeled items.
    It's probably more like a quarter of that individual models. That would still be a huge number of models.
    It doesn't mean you're going to run out of cool new things to look at. You could probably play the game for hundreds of hours and still not see every single different model.
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  • PerictionePerictione Posts: 1,431
    When it comes to 'Diablo' and 'Diablo 2', I believe what made uniques interesting were the item assets: uniques often conferred bonuses that were specific to uniques, and not just buffed bonuses that were available in one form or another on every other magical item. Assigning fourteen hundred names to things is pretty nifty, but coming up with 1,400 unique bonuses would be nothing short of amazing.

    This said, and knowing Erich has promised us an impressive cornucopia of stuff, I'm certainly looking forward to the shopping adventure!


    - P.
    I guess I'm gonna have to up and kill ya even if yer already dead, Zombie-boy

    Vanquishers: All our lines are busy at the moment, please hold the line and a customer service representative will be with you shortly...
  • QueenchQueench Posts: 256
    Perictione wrote:
    When it comes to 'Diablo' and 'Diablo 2', I believe what made uniques interesting were the item assets: uniques often conferred bonuses that were specific to uniques, and not just buffed bonuses that were available in one form or another on every other magical item. Assigning fourteen hundred names to things is pretty nifty, but coming up with 1,400 unique bonuses would be nothing short of amazing.

    This said, and knowing Erich has promised us an impressive cornucopia of stuff, I'm certainly looking forward to the shopping adventure!


    - P.
    Guy saying true...
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  • heronheron Posts: 637
    ds2=dragonage with isometric camera.
    party system action fun.
    it's a classic. nuff'said.
  • xanixani Posts: 583
    heron wrote:
    ds2=dragonage with isometric camera.
    party system action fun.
    it's a classic. nuff'said.
    Lol dragon age combat system have almost nothing in common with dungeon siege 2, xcept that in both of them you use mouse :D
  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭
  • qianqian Posts: 290
    1,400 uniques

    if there are item tiers like in tl1 (pretty sure there are tiers)...

    there would probably be a regular unique followed by the epic version of that unique for example

    thus, the amount of different uniques = ~700 if 2 tiers (more believable), ~467 if 3 (my guess)
    BrianW wrote:
    Well, you can do full respec if you really want to. Create a mule character, spawn a [LINK DELETED] from the console and put it in your shared stash. Your target character should be able to use it without a problem.

    Thanks
  • hawknhawkn Posts: 8,348
    I think it's a little late in the development cycle to add too many major things at this point. :lol:
    ...I most certainly am not the meanest person on these forums, I defer that position to hawkn. ~ AMB2010
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    Runic Games Fansite My Deviant
  • KrayzenKrayzen Posts: 298
    Dungeon siege 2 always seemed like a real outlier for me, it was quite fun and I think I played threw it a few times. For me the only thing it really had going for it was the feel of the game play I think they nailed that, sorta like controlling all the characters at once in gauntlet. Its especially odd for me because of all the games I consider major disappointments, sacred, dragons age, and the vaunted titans quest, all so bad for my tastes that I could not stomach finishing any of them.

    I can forgive a bad story, or atmosphere and setting if the game play is good and the mechanics are interesting. Given how much Runic seems to be focusing on the feel of the game I think I'm going to love it. As for atmosphere and setting the game looks more vibrant and alive compared to torchlight, so that leaves only the story to be questioned and since I doubt Runic is going to spoil it, we will have to wait and see.

    Too soon to judge but for me leaning heavily towards Torchlight 2 > Dungeon Siege 2 by far.
  • adoomgodadoomgod Posts: 4,270
    qian wrote:
    1,400 uniques

    if there are item tiers like in tl1 (pretty sure there are tiers)...

    there would probably be a regular unique followed by the epic version of that unique for example

    thus, the amount of different uniques = ~700 if 2 tiers (more believable), ~467 if 3 (my guess)

    I happily think you are mistaken. JD said he finished naming 1400 uniques. That implies he did so individually. Second, tiers are boring. Nothing makes you feel ho hum like finding an "epic icedragonne" in higher levels after already acquiring a normal "icedragonne." I think Runic understood this and is really making every unique item, well, unique.

    All the unique/set items in titan quest, diablo, and dungeon siege were truly unique with no tiered versions and this is the best way to do it.

    Try to remember that TL2 will blow away TL1.
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    I put the "DOOM" in "****."
  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭
    Giving 1400 items 1400 unique names is not the same as making 1400 individual models, each with their own unique look and textures. That's a TON of work. How do you make 1400 items look different enough to warrant all that work? I think it's more like what qian was saying. I think his conservative estimate-467-is probably closer to how they probably did it.

    Three tiers per model. Otherwise, you're talking about a lot of assets. If each one was made to be truly unique. that would be a ton of work for the few artists runic has that can probably do that sort of thing. That, and which is worse- having three tiers per model or having so many different models made by so few people that the models end up looking too similar? Borderlands had 87 million guns, they all ended up looking like four or five different guns.
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  • adoomgodadoomgod Posts: 4,270
    I dunno Zidders, Grimby said that they have an outsourced art team or something... I think there are going to be a LOT of unique looking items. Maybe I'm optimistically naïve?

    Could a dev give us a ballpark estimate on how many unique item models there are? I'd really appreciate it so I would know whether to scream, "hooray" (if it's 437) or let my head explode. (If it is up around 1400)

    Thanks in advance, possibly
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    I put the "DOOM" in "****."
  • JerichJerich Posts: 1,665
    qian wrote:
    1,400 uniques

    if there are item tiers like in tl1 (pretty sure there are tiers)...

    there would probably be a regular unique followed by the epic version of that unique for example

    thus, the amount of different uniques = ~700 if 2 tiers (more believable), ~467 if 3 (my guess)

    Travis said in the fan event podcast that TL would be itemized all the way to 100 this time and that they were trying not to use tiers. I don't think they like them much.

    So that means that the 1.4k unique items are most likely individual with no repeats.
  • QueenchQueench Posts: 256
    Dam if you want make items good, so yes you have to work on them not to just double them with other stats.....I would like more to see 300 nice uniques, but not 1400 same about....Or just why do I have to call them unique, lets make it magical or something. Looks like uniques is about to name it unique and thats nice !!! **** no. Unique is nice about unique item stats ( maybe those stats you can't even see on any other item on the game ) special look, shine, picture, name, and other things.
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  • Honestly don't waste too much time, effort, ressources on making that much unique items : end-game there might only be 5 or 6 items hunted for each build because they will be the best.

    The ONLY way to make ALL unique items really usefull no matter their stats would be to allow TRANSMOGRIFICATION.

    I really think transmogrification allow a new depth in farming : not only will you want to find the best loot stat wise but also to find the best looking unique and then change the shape / skin of you equipment to look smart /badass as you want.

    If they add this feature all art team, efforts, ressources will be used by some player otherwise all completed characters will have the same appearance if they wear the same unique.

    technically I am not a programmer but I don't think this is so hard to make, just add a property on each item that will overlap / override the original item appearance and point to the new object skin/shape.
  • MeemoMeemo Posts: 644
    Zidders wrote:
    Giving 1400 items 1400 unique names is not the same as making 1400 individual models, each with their own unique look and textures. That's a TON of work. How do you make 1400 items look different enough to warrant all that work? I think it's more like what qian was saying. I think his conservative estimate-467-is probably closer to how they probably did it.

    Three tiers per model. Otherwise, you're talking about a lot of assets. If each one was made to be truly unique. that would be a ton of work for the few artists runic has that can probably do that sort of thing. That, and which is worse- having three tiers per model or having so many different models made by so few people that the models end up looking too similar? Borderlands had 87 million guns, they all ended up looking like four or five different guns.

    I agree, just make duplicates have a different glow or something :\..

    - different glow
    - ethereal
    - elemental effects
    - coloring

    I just hope to the uniques don't have the same model as the normal weapons :\, that really turned me off from the 1st torchlight.. Remember how set items and "gold items" had the same skin as normal items in the first Torclight, yeah.. Since this game is taking ages to come out, I am fully expecting uniques to be 100% unique in skins..
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  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭
    adoomgod wrote:
    I dunno Zidders, Grimby said that they have an outsourced art team or something... I think there are going to be a LOT of unique looking items.
    Jerich wrote:
    Travis said in the fan event podcast that TL would be itemized all the way to 100 this time and that they were trying not to use tiers. I don't think they like them much.

    So that means that the 1.4k unique items are most likely individual with no repeats.
    o.o
    I...I think you guys are right.

    Man...every time I think of how close I think we're getting, I hear this song in my head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtwJtnBU ... re=related
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