New Torchlight 2 Models (Clock Sword Texture WIP)

DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
edited September 2014 in Art and Sound
EDIT: If anyone wants to see the models in one place, just go to my Deviant Art gallery: http://darktailss.deviantart.com/

Most of the models are there, and scattered throughout this thread.

Here's a download link for most of the models so far in .max format (3DSMax 2012):
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1naq8x8as7vb6/3D%20Models%20(.max%20)

===============

It **** learning this stuff on your own but I'm plugging away at it. I know what I want to do to the model but I don't always know how to accomplish it in the program

This is a scythe/axe, handles kind of like a brush hook but badasser, if you can even imagine anything more badass than a brush hook. It can be used either one or two handed (if used 1-handed it loses some of its stats and attack power, now to make this possible in the game :lol: ). It's only the blade so far, I'm fed up with the program for today to bother making the shaft lol

6iw75k.jpg

-Sharp all around, any edge can be used for a **** rampage
-Shaft/handle will have two places to grip it based on how the TL characters hold it.
-Some kind of counter-weight on the end of it
-Every other detail has to be added with the texture (wood handle, blood groove in blade, etc.)
-I don't even know if it'll be able to go into TL2, we'll find out later I guess

Stats
Attack: ??? - ????
Degrades 7% of target's armor per hit (if their armor is 100 then it goes to 93, then 86, 80, 75, etc.)
4% Chance to cast Lv. 20 Fear on kill
Inflicts 12 seconds of Bleed on targets per hit
Some other stuff lol
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Comments

  • turnipzturnipz Posts: 1,308
    Woot nice! Cant believe your new at this, kinda inspirational. :D

    Hopefully your luck with texturing is as good.
  • ArkhamArkham Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭
    Looking good so far. A few suggestions:

    - Making a single weapon usable as both 1- and 2-handed seems unfeasible to me. I can't say it's impossible because I don't think anyone's tried, but it doesn't sound like something that can be done. The only thing I can think of that might possibly work would be to have some sort of script/ability activated by right-clicking on the 1-handed weapon to transform itself into a 2-handed version and vice versa.

    - I would recommend making one big grip for the shaft, instead of two separate ones. The characters' hands are liable to slide here and there across the grabby area of a long weapon like this, so having one large grabby area will have less liability for looking weird than two separate areas -- one of the characters' animations could, conceivably, send their hands to the middle ungrippy area during an attack. Not a huge deal obviously, but one big grip might just be a better idea.

    - A counter-weight (that stays oriented toward the ground, like a lot of WoW weapons that have this sort of thing on it) would, I think, probably need to be done with an unmoving particle effect. You can try to tackle this if you want, but particles are a much more tricky thing than modeling, so if you're still grappling with learning modeling, you may want to think carefully before committing to this particular feature. Still, it should be possible if you really want to do it.
    (There might be a way to do this with an animation skeleton, which unlike in TL1 is now supported on weapons in TL2, but I'm not entirely sure it would work for something like this and, even if it does, dealing with rigs/skeletons is probably even more complicated than particles.)

    - Lastly, for when you get to the texturing stage: may I heartily recommend some of the texturing tutorials featured on the TL deviantart group?

    Anyway, there's my feedback. Good luck with your work on this.
    Kv2n8MF.jpg

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  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    turnipz wrote:
    Woot nice! Cant believe your new at this, kinda inspirational. :D

    Hopefully your luck with texturing is as good.

    Thanksssss, texturing is going to be hard because I **** at drawing, let alone applying the texture neatly to the model :lol:

    Simple stuff still confuses me. For example, I couldn't figure out how to create the outline of the blade's shape by creating individual vertices (little dots that connect to each other) so instead I made a plane (a flat polygon with a single visible face) and added vertices to its border so I could move them around and create the shape that way. Lots of ways to do the same thing but I wish I had a better workflow, hard to do when you're reading lots of random tutorials instead of having someone teach you step by step.

    @Arkham

    -Yeah, I'll just keep it 2 handed for simplicity's sake. I was looking at the Engineer's animations in TL2 and there are frames where the weapon is completely out of the character's hands as well as some where the weapon is being gripped at different places. One big grip sounds better in this case, maybe slightly taper the shaft near the middle too to make it less bland than just a solid cylinder.

    -By counterweight I just meant a little decorative ball or spike added to the **** of the shaft with more polygons, not a swinging chain or something

    I'll check out those texturing tuts on DA :)
  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    Got the shaft mostly done, just tinkering with what to put on the end. Did some tapering to make it more interesting and added little protruding rings at the extremities.

    It only has 177 tris so far :)
    1zbfldw.jpg

    Anyone know a quick way to merge the blade and shaft together so that I don't have to do a bunch of vertex creating and welding and polygon modifying where they meet? >_<
  • ArkhamArkham Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭
    Good progress.

    - The rings look pretty thin/flat right now. This can be an easy thing to forget about -- when modeling a weapon, it's right up in your face, but in the game it's going to be small and far away from the camera, and those polys might go to waste if the detail they add isn't visible from that distance. Try to make those sorts of features "read" better by exaggerating sizes, angles, and proportion; and by periodically checking what the weapon looks like from far away.

    - 177 tris is good at this juncture. TL1 had 280 as the standard max polycount for a weapon, so I imagine TL2 would have something similar or slightly higher. If you finish the weapon and find you're well under that, you might consider adding a bit more detail to the curves on the blade to make it a bit smoother.

    - I'm not sure I know what Max's specific command for this would be (in Maya it's called Combine; in Max I think it might be Connect or Attach, though I don't remember where these commands are located. Hopefully that will help you start looking for what you need) but there's definitely going to be a way to make the blade and shaft into the same polygonal object. No need to worry about the geometry itself connecting; you'd wind up spending more polys than its worth and it wouldn't really do anything except use a little less texture space.
    Kv2n8MF.jpg

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  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    Thanks for the tips, those are all important points! I'll experiment with the Attach function, I know it makes them both into one object but I don't know if it deletes all the polys and vertices inside the model too.

    -Rearranged some of the tris, I don't know if that helps anything but it looks less "busy" now
    -Rounded the blade a little more, added a spike to the shaft, will enlarge rings
    -I'm at 192 tris now, 258 once I split all the quads in the shaft, maybe a little less once I merge the two pieces together
    -I'll try making the texture myself but I'll probably end up paying someone to paint it for me :lol:

    fnt55.jpg

    EDIT: I figured out how to combine the things and have excess vertices/polygons be automatically deleted (Boolean>Union), but then you have to reshape the intersecting area to connect all those floating vertices blarg!

    If I can just leave the weapon in two pieces and simply Attach them and have that work in the game that'd be great haha (is that what you mean Arkham, by not needing to connect the geometry?).
  • ArkhamArkham Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭
    DarkTails wrote:
    If I can just leave the weapon in two pieces and simply Attach them and have that work in the game that'd be great haha (is that what you mean Arkham, by not needing to connect the geometry?).
    Yup, that's exactly what I meant. That's a fairly common practice in low-poly modeling.
    The only major concern* when doing such a thing (aside from managing polygon count) is if there are large faces, or large areas of a face, whose section of the texture wouldn't get seen (in which case the unseen polys/unseen parts of polys would be wasting texture space). Since this weapon only has very thin sections of the top of the haft being hidden, that's not a concern.
    *For the sake of completeness, I guess I should mention if you were to start making environment props in an environment using vertex lighting, this "heedlessly combine objects" method becomes a lot more problematic. But you're not dealing with an environment prop or vertex lighting, so don't worry about that -- it works fine for this sort of thing.
    You're right to forgo the boolean operation, on the other hand, since as you've observed that leaves a bunch of "n-gons" (polygons with 5 or more edges), which is bad stuff. Avoid n-gons. Booleans are more for high-poly modeling anyway.
    Kv2n8MF.jpg

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  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    Cool beans, I'll be making a hammer next now that it isn't such a daunting job lol.

    This is the final challenge though, I think? Is it normal to have that white selection box be askew? I made the blade at an angle so I had to rotate everything to stand it upright. I've been looking for some kind of "coordinates reset" option to have the box neatly frame the weapon, but it's hard to do when I don't know what the operation I need is called :lol:

    2qlbinq.jpg
  • MorbusMorbus Posts: 176
    Darktails, if you want the weapon to be usable with two hands, you will need to add it to the polearm or the staff item group, they are the only ones that work for this purpose. Even if you define a new two handed weapon class in unittypes.hie, they will not use the two handed animations. There may be a way to solve this but I have not found it yet. What does work is defining a new item class as a child class of the polerm class for easier stats and specific affixes and effects.
    "I will, of course, be dead at some future point, as will everybody else. For me, this maybe further off than you think - it's too soon to tell."
  • ArkhamArkham Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭
    DarkTails wrote:
    Cool beans, I'll be making a hammer next now that it isn't such a daunting job lol.

    This is the final challenge though, I think? Is it normal to have that white selection box be askew? I made the blade at an angle so I had to rotate everything to stand it upright. I've been looking for some kind of "coordinates reset" option to have the box neatly frame the weapon, but it's hard to do when I don't know what the operation I need is called :lol:

    2qlbinq.jpg
    In Maya that operation would be called "freeze transforms"; afraid I don't know what that feature is called in Max.
    I don't think it's necessary to do that for this, though. Simply setting it up correctly at the origin and exporting it from that position ought to be sufficient--I don't think the 3d-application-based orientation gets inherited during export to the Ogre format.
    Kv2n8MF.jpg

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  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    Thanks for the info Morbus! I'm going to wait for TL2's release to try and import this though (I think you're talking about TL1?). I already deleted the scripts and game from my computer and don't really feel like going through the process or reinstalling and tweaking everything again right now :lol:

    -Apparently "Reset Xforms" does what I was looking for, but it also has "Freeze Transforms". Either way now the object is neatly framed lol
    -Interesting that if I go to Move the object and enter 0,0,0 as the coordinates, the Pivot Point is what goes to those coordinates. Here I moved the PP to near where the grip was in TL1, so the object sticks out a little from under the grid. The PP showed up as a pink dot in Blender, can't see it in 3DS though, maybe I just have to turn on an option or something.
    24zm5ix.jpg
  • MorbusMorbus Posts: 176
    Yes, I was talking about TL, DarkTails. I suspect that since there are going to be more two handed item classes in TL2, adding this will be easier. I will still contemplate adding a derpstick child class to TL2 for myself and for Rusty, who said he was a derpstick-on-self user, too. P7JVK.gif


    E: Would you mind to share this model when you are finished? I would like to try it out in TL.
    "I will, of course, be dead at some future point, as will everybody else. For me, this maybe further off than you think - it's too soon to tell."
  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    You can have it now, the model is finished. You just have to make a texture map since I have little skill in making them :lol:
  • MorbusMorbus Posts: 176
    Would you please provide a link?
    "I will, of course, be dead at some future point, as will everybody else. For me, this maybe further off than you think - it's too soon to tell."
  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    Here's a download link - http://www.mediafire.com/?wwnawqge4e9m07o

    If you get some message about missing a file, just ignore it. It's referring to the drawing (jpeg image) I used for reference, I deleted it off my computer so now it complains about it missing even though you don't need it anymore. I just don't know how to make it stop looking for the file
  • SilvernisSilvernis Posts: 231
    Nice, very nice. If I may make one nit-picky observation: the haft looks a bit small and skinny compared to the head. That's pretty minor, though.

    Now I'm feeling an itch to get back to learning Blender, lol... :lol:
  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    Well, I'll just HAFT to fix it!

    *rimshot*

    *moan*

    :P

    I think you may have to thicken it so it looks right in the characters' hands, it may be too skinny and just be floating in between their fingers?
  • SilvernisSilvernis Posts: 231
    Lulz. :P

    But yeah, I think the haft would look better if it were a little longer and stouter to be more proportionate with the head.

    Like I said, though, this is just me being nit-picky -- it's just that I've been trying to make a sword in Blender myself, and I've gotten kinda OCD about proportions. ;)
  • ArkhamArkham Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭
    DarkTails wrote:
    I think you may have to thicken it so it looks right in the characters' hands, it may be too skinny and just be floating in between their fingers?
    That reminds me -- you may want to import a model for scale of some sort, like the character models that Runic released a while back, to make sure the weapon's overall size is right. As of right now the weapon could just as easily be way too tiny as it could be ridiculously, hugely massive. So that's one other thing to take care of.
    Kv2n8MF.jpg

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  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    -Merged the axe model into the Female Body file. (3DS uses the term "Merge" for importing 3DSMax files and "Import" for non-native files)

    -Axe was way too big so I Scaled it down first (shrunk it), then Moved the bottom half of the shaft downwards till it touched the "floor". (selected all polygons on the shaft from the middle down and Moved them)

    -Played with the body model to have it grip the weapon

    28i4y6s.jpg

    Now the problem-

    -I selected the fixed axe model and exported it. It exports as a .dwf file.
    -3DSMax won't open .dwf files. :/
    -I can't open the .dwf to save it as a 3DSfile again

    Maybe I just have to find a setting that exports the fixed model in the format I need x_X

    *head explodes* :lol:
  • ArkhamArkham Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭
    You would have to export it to the Ogre .MESH format if you wanted to use it in TL/TL2. You'd probably need a plugin -- either the ones supplied by Runic with TorchED, or one of the normal Ogre exporters for 3DS Max.
    Is there a reason you selected dwf in particular? As far as I know, Max (like most modern 3D programs) can export to a number of formats.
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  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    edited May 2012
    Edit: I used a different command I think that got me the .dwf file.

    Workaround time!

    -Opened the female body file and imported the axe.
    -Did the necessary resizing
    -Deleted the female body, leaving only the axe, then saved the file, so it's still in .max format

    The grid doesn't show up under the axe anymore, not sure if that's a problem :lol:

    Anyway, here's the new file: http://www.mediafire.com/?8i9n4f88b88af2p
  • ArkhamArkham Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭
    DarkTails wrote:
    The grid doesn't show up under the axe anymore, not sure if that's a problem :lol:
    I think you can just hit the G key to turn the grid on/off.
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  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    ...oh :lol:

    A while ago I commissioned someone to draw this so I could practice making models using it. I think it's pretty Torchlight-style:

    I have a few ideas on how to go about it but I'm wondering if they'll be feasible.

    -Instead of making gloves (or boots) from scratch, could I do this? Open the female body and delete everything except for the polygons that make the forearms/hands. Then just reshape the area as needed and save it as a new file (here I added the extension on the back of her gloves and widened the opening).

    seyq8p.jpg

    -Do equips have to be an enclosed object like a box or can they be a plane? (it's all just polygons either way, right?)

    -Would it be possible to make the armbands be part of the gloves? That's so I can make them a 3D detail and equip when the gloves do.

    I realize this may not be answerable yet, but I like to dream lol

    (also, I don't know what those dotted lines mean so I left them alone :P)
  • ArkhamArkham Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭
    DarkTails wrote:
    -Instead of making gloves (or boots) from scratch, could I do this? Open the female body and delete everything except for the polygons that make the forearms/hands. Then just reshape the area as needed and save it as a new file (here I added the extension on the back of her gloves and widened the opening).

    seyq8p.jpg
    It sounds like it would work. Admittedly, I haven't exactly done any TL2 modding yet (no surprise I'm sure), so I can't exactly say for certain it'll work, but based on your description it seems like it should.
    DarkTails wrote:
    -Do equips have to be an enclosed object like a box or can they be a plane? (it's all just polygons either way, right?)
    Nope, they don't have to be enclosed. Just "a plane" sounds like it'd not be quite enough (unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by a plane?), but yes, you can have, say, the wrist end of a glove flaring out as it goes away from the hand, and not make the end of it connect to anything.
    One thing to keep in mind if you do decide to do this is, the backfaces (the "inside" of the geometry) will not be visible in-game, so you'd have to duplicate any polys whose backfaces can be seen and reverse the normals of the duplicates.
    DarkTails wrote:
    -Would it be possible to make the armbands be part of the gloves? That's so I can make them a 3D detail and equip when the gloves do.
    Whether or not the armbands have their own 3D geometry on them, I think the location of the armbands would fit better with the chest armor than the gloves. (Remember that a piece equipment has to align, or at least not interfere, with the "cutoff points" of all the other equipment in the game; I think the upper arm belongs to the chest armor rather than the gloves.)
    DarkTails wrote:
    (also, I don't know what those dotted lines mean so I left them alone :P)
    All quads (four-sided polygons) are effectively two tris (3-sided polys) attached to each other. When a mesh is put into a game, it uses tris instead of quads to display the mesh. So, there's probably some setting that's turned on in the body rig files that shows how those tris are aligned on the quads.
    Kv2n8MF.jpg

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  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    Neat-o, yeah I was wondering if the armbands would be too far up to use as gloves. I think the necklace would work as part of the chest piece too. I'll get into all that once Runic and some of you guys pave the way with tutorials for TL2 haha.

    Good to hear about the open faces on equips being okay. I was thinking of making the chainmail chest armor and necklace protrude a little to give them some depth (starting off with something like a box), then remove the polygons from the side that's touching her chest since they can't be seen anyway.

    Or maybe I can just extrude the shape I need from the body and save it like the glove idea, might be easier. I'm getting the hang of it lol

    Aaaaaand before I take a nap, here's the start of a 2H sword:

    118pop2.jpg
  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    Sort of finished another weapon, here's a link to the reference: http://saharaam.deviantart.com/art/Morag-302697827

    Made some minor changes because I'm lazy/noobish. Also, this thing has over 500 tris, kinda hard to make the shape without using so many. The blade is like a membrane, I guess like a dragon or bat wing, would it be possible to add that in as a plane with a texture map instead of making it out of more tris?

    fwj9lv.jpg

    And more fun with posing:

    2mw6lc2.jpg

    Also, I'm just noticing that those protrusions near the shaft's middle are just fingers instead of axe-details, easy enough to fix xD

    Here's a download of the model: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?r97gzo79royc8yj
  • SilvernisSilvernis Posts: 231
    Pretty slick. Nice work. :)
  • DarkTailsDarkTails Posts: 4,148
    It's decent lol

    I'm wondering how I'd tackle hair now, seems like there's no reason people wouldn't want more hairstyles available. I've seen people make hair with multiple layers of planes (I think that's how it is in WOW?) but it looks weird. I'm finding it hard to figure out how to make hair look good using solid objects like Runic does (the hair in the pictures up there is actually a separate piece).

    Here's the first hairstyle I'd like to implement into the game, that super sweet white long-hawk with bangs :lol:
    2vlqlqr.jpg

    I guess all I can do is experiment and make it look better with the texture map. I'd like to at least make the bangs sway in the wind a little like the Vanquisher's. :)
  • PerictionePerictione Posts: 1,431
    'Tails... like, yuck <===== indication I'm at a loss of words to describe how seriously bad that looks

    That Sinead O'Connor goes Maenad Manga look... no, just no. Stay away from that sort of thing. It's unhealthy.

    But if you're serious about style, try modeling a pixie cut. Or, better yet, any number of french braids. They always look good and, best of all, a chained coif won't upset one's look at all. It's all very Wagnarian ;)


    - P.
    I guess I'm gonna have to up and kill ya even if yer already dead, Zombie-boy

    Vanquishers: All our lines are busy at the moment, please hold the line and a customer service representative will be with you shortly...
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