[WIP] -Mod- More Shields & Weapons - TL2 (9/12/2012 update)

AttackGorillaAttackGorilla Posts: 1,656
edited October 2012 in Art and Sound
So for fun and in anticipation of TL2 I have started creating models and textures for some additional items to mod into TL2. I have been successfully keeping the poly count between 400-800. I am obviously an amateur at this, but I am having fun and I feel like I am starting to get the hang of the basics of simple models...

9/4/2012: Here is what I have thus far. (some shields and a 1h axe in progress).
TL2_mod_items_0001.jpg
Will probably redo the 1h axe to get the proportions better and reduce poly. (and yes the texture is not finished)

If anyone out there wants to take any of these ideas and make them better than that would be awesome. More to come as I have time. I have some more pieces I drew on paper that I need to model.

Updates/Progress:

9/5/2012: Finished texturing the first 1h axe, modeled and began polygon highlighting to begin texturing the second 1h axe. (Now that I am getting better at models I made this new axe at about 150 poly count.)
axesfortoday.jpg
*Note I hate how blender unwraps so many of the models in the most confusing arrangements (even with "smart unwrap" selected) making texturing a nightmare on some models....

9/7/2012: lost some time since I found out that some of my models were not scaling correctly so I had to redo them, hope I don't have to backtrack again if they don't import correctly into TL2 (are showing correctly in Dusho's viewer, which is promising). I did take the opportunity to reduce poly counts on one of the weapons and re-textured (have to re-texture because of changes to the models screws up the texture wrapping horribly in blender, at least for me it does) Note the bright color item is not the final texture, just a texture map, which takes a long time to do....
reaxeit.jpg

9/9/2012: some more models and bit of texturing, though to avoid redoing work I am going to hold off on textures until TL2 is released and I can get the models imported and adjusted.
moreaxestoday01x.jpg

9/12/2012: Thanks to all the help below I managed to get the models to work in TL1. I will still hold off on minor positioning/scaling adjustments until TL2 (noticed some items move on the characters a little weird that hopefully TL2 addresses, so I will correct as needed for TL2). So I have been texturing the existing models and setting them up to work in TL1 (so hopefully easy transition into TL2). Have some more weapon sketches to model as well. Still struggling with Blender UNWRAP so in the meantime I have a workaround that makes the weapons perhaps a little less impressive, but at least not ugly.
pole01.jpg
lowquallineup120912.jpg
Was reminded of the Texture replace bug for items in TL1 when I tried to use the function... when you drop a texture replaced item on the ground texture replace stops working (another thing that is hopefully fixed in TL2, as it is a nice quick and easy way to create diversity).
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Comments

  • PhanjamPhanjam Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭
    Hey these are nice AG! I'm still just learning the unwrapping part in Blender myself (imported some SketchUp models). Let's share notes k? :D
    Torchmodders
    Torchlight 1 Class Pack (TL1CP) Mod for TL2: Steam | RGF
  • Main things I learned thus far:
      Easier to scale the model in Blender by comparing it with a TL model, rather than trying to scale it in Sketchup before importing. Blender will sometimes import the sketchup models as multiple objects. So in blender I SELECT ALL and then pres CTRL+J and join the objects (sometimes I have to manually select an object first or else it errors for some reason). I use smart unwrap, then past the screenshot into Photoshop and work the texture there, updating Blender with RELOAD as I go. I just have not found a great way to unwrap, so instead I have to struggle through color coding everything in photoshop and RELOADing in blender till I get the parts right. Large chunks usually come out good but it often chooses poor places to splice the polys when unwrapping, resulting difficulty getting the textures to line up well. You can also select the SELECT FACES option and click the model while in edit mode and it will sort of highlight the face on the unwrap layout, which helps get those hard to identify polys.

    (note I am using blender 2.49)

    I really should install TL1 on my computer to actually make sure I can get it all to work in game, but I used to have no problem in the past importing models so I would rather spend my time making the models rather than setting up TL1 and such.
  • ArkhamArkham Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭
    Didn't Dusho make a model viewer for ogre mesh files? You can probably just use that.
    Kv2n8MF.jpg

    Mods:
    Arkham's Armory (TL2) | Lego Wizard pet (TL1)

    Check out the Torchlight fan group #The-Lure-of-Ember on dA!
  • PhanjamPhanjam Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭
    Arkham wrote:
    Didn't Dusho make a model viewer for ogre mesh files? You can probably just use that.

    I am finding that Dusho's mesh viewer (DMV) is such a VALUABLE modder's tool. F'rinstance I made a hammer model in SketchUp (SU) and was able to export it to .MESH format. I used DMV first to check that it would load at all, believing it would be an indication that it would at least load in TL1. It loaded fine. Went back and forth between SU and DMV for a while to make sure the model's position and orientation when opened in DMV was as faithful as possible to how the standard weapon models load in DMV.

    Opened the model in Blender to check on those important points from Dusho's model importation tutorial and to try unwrapping a UV map for the model. But I got impatient :P and tried seeing if it would already load in TL1. Lo and behold, it spawned just like a standard weapon, I was able to pick it up (without a CTD LOL!) look at it in inventory, equip it and attack with it!

    I attribute this to making sure the model's position/orientation upon loading into DMV was the same as a standard weapon's in DMV. I could have (maybe should have) done that in Blender, but discovering I could do this just using DMV saved me several hours of work ;) I will still be using Blender for the UV unwrapping though.

    I LOVE DMV AND DUSHO!
    Torchmodders
    Torchlight 1 Class Pack (TL1CP) Mod for TL2: Steam | RGF
  • PhanjamPhanjam Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭
    ...Easier to scale the model in Blender by comparing it with a TL model, rather than trying to scale it in Sketchup before importing.

    I leave the SketchUp girl-sprite on-screen for scaling purposes. I've found making a sword or similar weapon as long as she is tall, seems to work out right. For a polearm, maybe 1.5 x her height? The scale can be fine-tuned more in the item's .DAT file (at least for TL1).
    Torchmodders
    Torchlight 1 Class Pack (TL1CP) Mod for TL2: Steam | RGF
  • Thanks. So using Dusho's viewer it appears that when I scale the models in Blender it ignores the scaling and still uses the original Sketchup output size, which is a bummer because now I have to go back and fix them.

    Also, Worth noting that Blender has a Decimate modifier that can help reduce polycount. It works most of the time for me in reducing about 10-20% of the poly count on most of my models, but it has difficulty with more complicated models.
  • PhanjamPhanjam Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the tip about "decimate". will try that out soon (didn't get much time into it this weekend - will have to do it at work :lol: )
    Torchmodders
    Torchlight 1 Class Pack (TL1CP) Mod for TL2: Steam | RGF
  • So I have started to get better at texturing, even though I still can't get blender UNWRAP to not be a random mess of polygons scattered in a nonsensical arrangement. I tried creating SEAMS in blender, but that didn't seem to making any helpful difference at all. I follows the tutorials for creating SEAMS and unwrapping and I see that blender acknowledges I am making seems but it seems to ignore 99% of my seam, which ****.... not sure what I am doing wrong.

    Either way I have decided to hold off on texturing any more models until TL2 is released and I can get the models into the game, because I don't don't to have to change the rotation, scaling, or something else on the model and have to re-texture the whole thing again anyways.

    and the work I completed tonight:
    moreaxestoday01x.jpg
  • Nice work, those are some pretty brutal looking weapons :lol:

    And some thoughts on the blender troubles. The decimate modifier can get a bit wonky at times (as you've found out.) 2.49 should come bundled with a 'poly reduce/unsubsurf' script (that you run in edit mode) which usually gets you better results. Although it still gets a bit weird when you're trying to make massive reductions to complex shapes.

    Most things you do in object mode get applied as transformations/modifiers of the object rather than mesh data itself (which is what the exporters generally use.) So you'll need to apply it (Ctrl+A) before you export. That's my best guess for why the scale isn't changing.

    I don't think smart projections is adequately explained in blender. What it does is calculates where the seams should be based off the angles on the mesh (while ignoring any you've marked manually), then unwraps it. But it doesn't guarantee the resulting layout will make any more sense than when you do manually mark the seams. While it works pretty well for mechanical models it starts falling apart a bit when you switch over to more organic shapes or when you're doing low poly stuff because everything is angular.

    Unwrapping is really it's own art-form though, so it does take a bit of practice before you find a flow that works for you. Some quick tips I can give:
    -If your models symmetrical (with symmetrical textures) delete half of it and add a mirror modifier. This will make everything match up exactly without having to mess about with it later.

    -Unwrap it onto a 'UV test grid.' This will make it a lot easier to figure out where things are being stretched, or where any additional seams should be placed.

    -Ctrl+A will scale the selected parts of the UV layout so the polygons take up a roughly equal amount of texture space.

    -Ctrl+P will re-arrange the layout so it better utilizes the texture space. (Although this is really only helpful after you've done a bit of manual editing.)


    Blender lets you paint directly onto the model, which might be a quicker way of making those blocked out texture maps. You could also try something like baking the ambient occlusion (found under render properties) to get a quick feel of where everything is.

    So I jumped around a bit there, but I hope it wasn't too disjointed to be any help.
    signature-small.png
  • DushoDusho Posts: 988
    Nice to see people playing with models.. and blender
    I was cursing while working with Blender until I checked some basic video tutorials.. then wrote down all shortcuts and now it feels smooth.
    It's always better to import existing TL weapon into Blender and for example move it to different layer (Ctrl+M in 2.49b) .. just for reference.
    Also regarding your models, AG.. you choose realistic look - I did the same for my LadyKnight mod, but my weapons were way too thin compared to rest of models and seemed out of place.. it always looked from distance as you were just carrying some brown or gray pixelated stick. So maybe try to make those weapons more 'massive'.
    From what I checked the weapon models in TL2, looks like they have same scale and orientation as in TL1.. actually some TL1 weapons are just recolored and put into TL2..
    I would recommend using blender 2.62 by now, as I've updated the scripts for it (except animations and skeleton export), but even I'm still using 2.49b most of the time...
    Still.. here are new scripts: http://code.google.com/p/torchlight-to-blender/

    oh.. and when it comes to unwrapping.. I know I used this a lot with symmetric and flat models (sword, axes, ...)
    change your view so you see weapon from side (num3 ?) then hide vertices behind, selected all visible vertices, press U (to unwrap) and select unwrap from view.. then choose view from other side (crtl +num3), again select only visible vertices, unwrap from view and now you should have same UV from both sides.. align the maps there and maybe stretch parts that are really thin... stretching both UV maps at the same time...
    not sure if this was understandable.. if not, I will write some guide.. though I think I always did somewhere on these forums
  • Sadly I might have to give up on this... Torchlight just crashes every time I try spawn one of my custom weapons.
    Tried following Dusho's tutorial, but TL just keeps crashing... http://www.dusho.net/tutorials.tl_mesh.htm
    getting extremely frustrated. Other mesh files (raw files from the game) are working fine in the mod, so I know there is something messed up with my mesh file or exporting technique....
    may try a little bit more when I get another free chance.

    Worth noting that the mesh files that appear to be crashing in TL are working just fine in the standalone mesh viewer... so even more perplexing

    update: I tried getting TorchEd to load the MESH files and it won't load my mesh files, so that is almost definitely where something is going wrong....
    update2: It is late and I need sleep. I am confused as all ****. I start TorchEd, open a mesh file from the media folder and it shows up fine, but when I copy that mesh+image+material file over to my mods folder TorchEd will no longer open it. I need to start fresh again another day, because I am confused and frustrated.... :cry:
  • DushoDusho Posts: 988
    make sure to check Ogre.log
    One issue I remember people having with meshes is using newer Ogre tools to convert meshes.
    TL1 is based on Ogre 1.6.x where ogre tools write into .xml (from .xml) file certain mesh version (1.31 ? - not sure now)
    But TL2 is working on Ogre 1.7.x and that is paired with upgraded Ogre tools (mesh version 1.4 ?).
    Even though nothing changed in mesh file, that version check can freak Ogre engine out.
    You would need older version of ogre tools for TL1. (the versioning of ogre tools was (still is?) completely missing, so there was no way to tell that Ogre people upgraded to newer version.
    So.. check the ogre.log first.

    EDIT:
    actually found all the versions on sourceforge. : http://sourceforge.net/projects/ogre/files/ogre-tools/
    so for TL1 you should get 1.6.3 one
    I think I will put it in installation guide to my new blender script. The guide you are referring to on my site is REALLY old.. I should probably take it down, as new scripts (for Blender 2.62) are more comfortable and Import and Export were rewritten to work specifically for TL.
  • Thank you Dusho. You are an incredibly invaluable resource for this community. Will look at and do as you recommended tonight and post back on the results.
  • DUSHO YOU ARE THE BEST!!!! That totally Worked! Thank You So Much.

    The Proof it worked (so happy) :D :
    weaponproof2.jpgproofaxe01.jpg
  • PhanjamPhanjam Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭
    Fantastic AG! Looking really good. Now eagerly awaiting your weapons pack :p !
    Torchmodders
    Torchlight 1 Class Pack (TL1CP) Mod for TL2: Steam | RGF
  • DushoDusho Posts: 988
    Glad it helped.
    If it still will be an issue, I think I will show compatibility with TL1 and TL2 for models in TLModelViewer.. or just force all people to take Ogre tools 1.6.3 (MeshSerializer 1.40) for all models.
    For now I will probably incorporate some 'Equip' option to Viewer, so people can load models (weapons) and attach them in left/right hand for character and try out swinging it..
    If there is anything else that could be useful for you and is in my power, feel free to ask..
  • PhanjamPhanjam Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭
    Dusho wrote:
    If there is anything else that could be useful for you and is in my power, feel free to ask..

    Is it possible that your mesh-viewer might generate UV maps from a mesh that is loaded into it? :(
    Torchmodders
    Torchlight 1 Class Pack (TL1CP) Mod for TL2: Steam | RGF
  • So as I had suspected I seem to be unable to export TRANSLATION movements made in Blender (rotation and scale work fine). I looked it up online as well and it appears that Blender, for whatever reason, is not capable of applying local TRANSLATIONS/Movements to an individual object. This means if I need to move the weapon slightly up/down on the Y-axis I have to do it in Sketchup and re-import it into Blender, and then for some reason Blender decides to perform UNWRAP differently even though the only change was to the Y coordinate translation, so I have to redo the texture all over again. :x :x :x

    So if anyone has a solution for this problem then that would be awesome, otherwise I once again have to put some of my work on this mod on hold until TL2 is released so I can get the positioning correct.... (which is only a few days so that is ok) The problem I have is that in TL1 the characters tend to have the weapon model (2h specifically) slide around during the swing animations, so if you pause the game it looks weird (A minor gripe, but still would be really nice to have correct).

    low-qual screenshot lineup completed and in TL thus far:
    lowquallineup120912.jpg
  • ArkhamArkham Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭
    So as I had suspected I seem to be unable to export TRANSLATION movements made in Blender (rotation and scale work fine). I looked it up online as well and it appears that Blender, for whatever reason, is not capable of applying local TRANSLATIONS/Movements to an individual object. This means if I need to move the weapon slightly up/down on the Y-axis I have to do it in Sketchup and re-import it into Blender, and then for some reason Blender decides to perform UNWRAP differently even though the only change was to the Y coordinate translation, so I have to redo the texture all over again. :x :x :x

    So if anyone has a solution for this problem then that would be awesome, otherwise I once again have to put some of my work on this mod on hold until TL2 is released so I can get the positioning correct.... (which is only a few days so that is ok) The problem I have is that in TL1 the characters tend to have the weapon model (2h specifically) slide around during the swing animations, so if you pause the game it looks weird (A minor gripe, but still would be really nice to have correct).

    low-qual screenshot lineup completed and in TL thus far:
    lowquallineup120912.jpg


    Two possibilities:
    - Can you try selecting and translating all of the verticies of the object in Blender, instead of translating the entire object?
    - If that won't work, can you find some way of "freezing" or "zeroing-out" the transformations on the object after translating it?
    Kv2n8MF.jpg

    Mods:
    Arkham's Armory (TL2) | Lego Wizard pet (TL1)

    Check out the Torchlight fan group #The-Lure-of-Ember on dA!
  • Arkham wrote:
    - Can you try selecting and translating all of the verticies of the object in Blender, instead of translating the entire object?
    This basically. Moving the vertices themselves around while in 'edit mode' should work, but you can also recenter your mesh afterwards.

    I'm just going to quote myself from another thread because it's easier.
    When you move meshes around in 'object mode' the origin moves around with it.
    originshift.jpg
    This is where it attaches to the model. So no matter how far you move it, it will always attach in the same place.

    To put it back in the center press Shift+C, your viewport will change, but you can just hit the C-key and zoom back in.
    center3dcursor.jpg
    then click the 'center cursor' button.
    centercursor.jpg

    Your origin should now be at the center.
    centerorigin.jpg
    The origin point is that pinkish dot btw.
    signature-small.png
  • DushoDusho Posts: 988
    Phanjam wrote:
    Dusho wrote:
    If there is anything else that could be useful for you and is in my power, feel free to ask..
    Is it possible that your mesh-viewer might generate UV maps from a mesh that is loaded into it? :(
    ehm.. that would kind of complex and very not useful in standalone program. Here I'm sure Blender provides everything it needs.. there are even additional scripts that provide better unwrap algorithms for certain models, we just need to test them.

    @AttackGorilla
    keep in mind that when you're moving/rotating model in OBJECT mode, only transformation matrix of object is adjusted and is not applied to vertices of model unless you will do it manually ( (Ctrl +A) explained by SixShot already before)
    in EDIT mode (use TAB to switch between modes) you can select all vertices ( key A ) and then just move along Y axis ( key G, restrict to Y axis by key Y ) - now the translation is directly applied to all vertices immediately
    It is important to understand different between doing stuff in OBJECT mode and EDIT mode. For these small TL models you usually should do everything only in EDIT mode.
  • PhanjamPhanjam Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭
    Dusho wrote:
    Phanjam wrote:
    Dusho wrote:
    If there is anything else that could be useful for you and is in my power, feel free to ask..
    Is it possible that your mesh-viewer might generate UV maps from a mesh that is loaded into it? :(
    ehm.. that would kind of complex and very not useful in standalone program. Here I'm sure Blender provides everything it needs.. there are even additional scripts that provide better unwrap algorithms for certain models, we just need to test them.

    Thanks for replying Dusho! I just thought I'd ask... it's such a great program/tool already. I was just thinking of ways it could be more awesome. Being able to work with meshes using mostly your mesh-tool would be really great is all :) ...
    Torchmodders
    Torchlight 1 Class Pack (TL1CP) Mod for TL2: Steam | RGF
  • Thanks again everyone. Will give it a go when I get a chance, though by your responses this should work great.
  • ArkhamArkham Posts: 3,296 ✭✭✭
    Phanjam wrote:
    Thanks for replying Dusho! I just thought I'd ask... it's such a great program/tool already. I was just thinking of ways it could be more awesome. Being able to work with meshes using mostly your mesh-tool would be really great is all :) ...
    If you're looking for a standalone program meant for working with UVs, you might give Roadkill a try.
    Personally I find using Maya's (and Max's) internal UV tools to be sufficient (haven't tried Blender's yet). But, Roadkill does have some pretty interesting and useful tools to help with unwrapping mesh uvs.
    Kv2n8MF.jpg

    Mods:
    Arkham's Armory (TL2) | Lego Wizard pet (TL1)

    Check out the Torchlight fan group #The-Lure-of-Ember on dA!
  • PhanjamPhanjam Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭
    Arkham wrote:
    If you're looking for a standalone program meant for working with UVs, you might give Roadkill a try.
    Personally I find using Maya's (and Max's) internal UV tools to be sufficient (haven't tried Blender's yet). But, Roadkill does have some pretty interesting and useful tools to help with unwrapping mesh uvs.

    Thanks very much Arkham!
    Torchmodders
    Torchlight 1 Class Pack (TL1CP) Mod for TL2: Steam | RGF
  • DushoDusho Posts: 988
    it looks like you still have a problem with shading on models.. everything looks blocky
    in Blender you have to press 'Set smooth' button before exporting
    also, this could help you preview the scale and rotation of your weapon on character:
    http://code.google.com/p/torchlight-mesh-viewer/ <- added Equip menu
  • This project is going on hold for a bit. I am working overtime at work, got some new business through a secondary job, will need to play TL2 when it is released, and I only got about 3 hours of sleep last night since my little one has a fever...

    Will post any updated work if I get to it.
  • PhanjamPhanjam Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭
    Fantastic work so far AG. Hope the little one gets better soon.
    Torchmodders
    Torchlight 1 Class Pack (TL1CP) Mod for TL2: Steam | RGF
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