My Poison Outlander (with skills analysis)

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  • Empyrean wrote:
    I don't mind alternate skill suggestions. It's when someone implies that I didn't read the tier bonuses (and when they write like a 12 year old; pet peeve of mine) that I get really annoyed with them.

    Burning Leap is not better than Rune Vault. When I need to get distance with Rune Vault, I right click and it's done. Burning Leap requires you to select a destination. Burning Leap at 15 ranks also costs more than six times as much as Rune Vault at one rank, and takes slightly longer to get you out of danger even if you don't factor in aiming time. If you change direction with Burning Leap, your character has to physically turn before moving. It's not a huge delay, but it does contribute to Burning Leap failing to get you out of danger in cases where Rune Vault would not. Burning Leap's saving grace is that it lets you move through enemies to escape. This is rarely a problem for me as Glaive Throw is quite long ranged, and if you are proactive in avoiding a surround it's not difficult. You're faster than the monsters.

    The damage on Burning Leap isn't anything special. It takes long enough to complete that the damage it does isn't much of an improvement over just autoattacking.

    I've made a few revisions to the build. I've taken to using Repulsion Hex over Glaive Sweep. Repulsion Hex helps keep enemies off of me without any input on my part, so I can keep doing the things I'd otherwise be doing.

    Stone Pact is still a great skill, but just because the effect is stationary doesn't mean you have to be. It lasts for 20 seconds, so you can drop it before combat and still get use out of it. If you want to be extra cautious, drop your Stone Pact, run into Cursed Dagger range, and retreat with Rune Vault. You're only exposed to danger for a split second and you get your DoT set up right at the start. Any retaliation will have the damage reduced by the Stone Pact and the Daggers.

    I don't really get the point of having daggers when you have glaives that can clear a room in a half a second.
  • SaintSatan wrote:
    I don't really get the point of having daggers when you have glaives that can clear a room in a half a second.
    On plain farm areas yes its useless, but on Boss fights, or big packs with 2-3 elites among them.. its vital to have a skill that:
    Debuffs their dmg to u, gives u more crit chance, more movement speed and generally more dmg to your other skills.
    Its mostly a defensive/boosting skill not a stand alone dmging skill :)
  • SaintSatan wrote:
    I don't really get the point of having daggers when you have glaives that can clear a room in a half a second.
    The daggers have specific uses. Against very large groups of enemies, particularly ones with shields, the daggers can kill them all in less time than the Glaives could have. They also reduce the damage that enemies deal, which is very useful for boss fights. The bonuses for hitting multiple enemies are trivial and not really worth mentioning.

    I've been alternating between my Focus Outlander and my shooty Outlander and approaching a weird sort of build convergence as I refine what utility skills I prefer. The Focus build is still running pure Focus stat allocation, and has the following skills:

    Glaive Throw - 5
    Tangling Shot - 1
    Cursed Daggers - 10
    Repulsion Hex - 10
    Stone Pact - 5
    Venomous Hail - 5
    Dodge Mastery - 11
    Share the Wealth - 10
    Master of the Elements - 11

    Tangling Shot is useful as ****, costing basically nothing and snaring one target for three seconds guaranteed. This stops enemies from charging me or teleporting around. Repulsion Hex keeps enemies off of me and randomly fears the ones that it can't knock back. Offensively it's still all about the Glaive Throw and Cursed Daggers. I have a pistol/shield equipped so I can use skills like Venomous Hail and Tangling Shot. I never autoattack anyway so it's not like it really matters what weapon I've got. I currently have six pieces of my spare Sentinel set on this character. Should have that finished soon, and it'll be insane when that's done. The set gives +22% to all damage, 6% mana steal (which I won't use since I don't autoattack) and +33% casting speed. That's the real kicker. Not only does it increase my offensive output, but it lets me Rune Vault around more quickly, and I'm a sucker for speed.

    Edit: Heh. Already finished the second Sentinel set, and picked up a +14% faster cast speed wand with a +20% faster cast speed shield. Total casting speed bonus is up to 81%. Holy ****.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Can you show a screenshot of the set you're wearing? Sounds really good would like to work towards getting it.
  • Can you show a screenshot of the set you're wearing? Sounds really good would like to work towards getting it.
    Sure.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/tkmr6mgg3vol3 ... enshot.jpg
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Empyrean wrote:
    Can you show a screenshot of the set you're wearing? Sounds really good would like to work towards getting it.
    Sure.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/tkmr6mgg3vol3 ... enshot.jpg

    My jaw dropped :o Thats a really awesome set, may I know where did you attempt to farm the set?
  • No farming; I bought it. If you go back and forth between the 4th town and the map junction the pieces show up for sale with random enchantments on them every once in a while. Took me an hour or two to get two full sets for both of my Outlanders. The cost is usually around 6-9k per piece. If you're not blowing your cash on mana potions the whole game it's quite easily affordable.

    I took this build through a couple of dungeons on Elite. It held up pretty well; I died twice to monsters I couldn't see because they were behind the terrain until they one-shot me with leap attacks, and after that I started flinging daggers around blind corners. You don't worry about that stuff on Normal, and playing on Elite you just need to have a mindset that everything can one-shot you and play accordingly. I did fine after that. I think I'll probably play on those dungeons with 50% slower attack/casting speed and 200% damage, since I'm a one-shot-drop already anyway. Might as well make the monsters feel it even more. :)
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Can you please explain why u use a shield instead of dual weapons?
  • Empyrean wrote:
    SaintSatan wrote:
    I don't really get the point of having daggers when you have glaives that can clear a room in a half a second.
    The daggers have specific uses. Against very large groups of enemies, particularly ones with shields, the daggers can kill them all in less time than the Glaives could have. They also reduce the damage that enemies deal, which is very useful for boss fights. The bonuses for hitting multiple enemies are trivial and not really worth mentioning.

    I've been alternating between my Focus Outlander and my shooty Outlander and approaching a weird sort of build convergence as I refine what utility skills I prefer. The Focus build is still running pure Focus stat allocation, and has the following skills:

    Glaive Throw - 5
    Tangling Shot - 1
    Cursed Daggers - 10
    Repulsion Hex - 10
    Stone Pact - 5
    Venomous Hail - 5
    Dodge Mastery - 11
    Share the Wealth - 10
    Master of the Elements - 11

    Tangling Shot is useful as ****, costing basically nothing and snaring one target for three seconds guaranteed. This stops enemies from charging me or teleporting around. Repulsion Hex keeps enemies off of me and randomly fears the ones that it can't knock back. Offensively it's still all about the Glaive Throw and Cursed Daggers. I have a pistol/shield equipped so I can use skills like Venomous Hail and Tangling Shot. I never autoattack anyway so it's not like it really matters what weapon I've got. I currently have six pieces of my spare Sentinel set on this character. Should have that finished soon, and it'll be insane when that's done. The set gives +22% to all damage, 6% mana steal (which I won't use since I don't autoattack) and +33% casting speed. That's the real kicker. Not only does it increase my offensive output, but it lets me Rune Vault around more quickly, and I'm a sucker for speed.

    Edit: Heh. Already finished the second Sentinel set, and picked up a +14% faster cast speed wand with a +20% faster cast speed shield. Total casting speed bonus is up to 81%. Holy ****.

    Yeah since I've been playing higher level mapworks maps it comes in handy. So far I'm level 60 and I have the following to the max - Elemental, Dodge, Share The Wealth, Stonepact, Repulsion, Daggers, and then 10 points in Glaive. I have 100 points in dex and vit (so far, might go more than 100) and the rest in focus. Easily **** mapworks maps 20 levels higher than me.
  • Thanks for posting an actual build. I've had a lot of trouble finding viable information the last few days.

    Do you have your Shooty Outlander build posted anywhere? If not when you get around to it I would appreciate a few comments or another thread dedicated to that. The GlaiveLander build was pretty straight forward and I came to mostly the same conclusions although I still need to hash out my utility spells at higher level (either way it is a minor issue).

    Hopefully you would not mind a slight derail. I assume for your Shooty Outlander you have a similar stat breakdown prioritizing Strength in place of Focus. Guessing Dodge/LRM/Shotgonne/Wealth/VH at a minimum. Are you using Rapid Fire primarily or did you actually give Shadowshot or Chaos Burst a go? Did you level Rapid Fire all the way or just stop at T2? What utility skills did you favor? Guessing you kept at least 1 in RV.

    I was thinking of trying out something with the above skills assuming I could sustain Rapid Fire (assuming it works off mana leech, otherwise I do not see how you could sustain it). Have you found that Physical damage is making your Shooty Outlander a painful experience or is Rapid Fire and/or Blade Pact enough to debuff them for you?

    I have quite a few more questions, but I think it would be best to stop here for now.
  • Vaggii wrote:
    Can you please explain why u use a shield instead of dual weapons?
    Because a shield increases my defense, while dual weapons would not increase my offense.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Well, some of them could, like those +50% psn dmg pistol, but probably it isn't worth it.
    ..:: KOSICIEL ::..
  • Empyrean wrote:
    Vaggii wrote:
    Can you please explain why u use a shield instead of dual weapons?
    Because a shield increases my defense, while dual weapons would not increase my offense.
    Yes but dual wands for example CAN increase your offense.. with their passive % modifiers.. Are there any shields with offensive mage stats? or u just use them clearly for defence not caring of offensive stats?
  • Vaggii wrote:
    Empyrean wrote:
    Vaggii wrote:
    Can you please explain why u use a shield instead of dual weapons?
    Because a shield increases my defense, while dual weapons would not increase my offense.
    Yes but dual wands for example CAN increase your offense.. with their passive % modifiers.. Are there any shields with offensive mage stats? or u just use them clearly for defence not caring of offensive stats?

    There are shields with offensive stats on them and judging from the screenshot he posted earlier he is either using a Bulwark's Eye or a Crimson Guard, both of which have stats that would boost your offense.

    That said while either an extra wand or an offensive shield has the potential to boost your dps I think many players will be using a shield simply because it outweighs the opportunity cost of a second wand.

    If you think about it in terms of block vs dps gain it is actually fairly easy to understand. Block will net you anywhere from ~12% to whatever block cap is in damage avoidance. You will likely gain very little net dps from another say Suicide wand adding 20% damage. The trash that you are 1-2 shotting still dies just as quickly and it would only make boss fights moderately faster. When you compare that to the possibility of simply not being dead on that same boss fight because you blocked it is a small sacrifice to give up the second wand.
  • My question to the op
    My current outlander plan is to do this build but with a shotty for some fun
    glavie already outright kills everything so why not a weapon for some fun
    gonna get dex to a cap i think 100
    then pure focus
    same skill set up expect I plan to get shotty mastery and 1 level of rapid fire
    My question is will getting a elemental shotty or adding elemental gems help me at all?
  • Been running with this so far and it's amazing, and Stone Pact is godsend in higher difficulties, especially since you can put down two at a time.

    Also, I have one point in the 360 blade sweep :( I can't get that point back, can I? or is it significant? should I remake?
  • Socket wrote:
    Been running with this so far and it's amazing, and Stone Pact is godsend in higher difficulties, especially since you can put down two at a time.

    Also, I have one point in the 360 blade sweep :( I can't get that point back, can I? or is it significant? should I remake?

    It's not the end of the world if you waste a skill point or two with this build. A lot of the non-core skills you grab are just for utility/fun. That said if you are a perfectionist there are a few ways around that.

    The first way is that you can simply pay a small gold fee to the respec trainer if the point you spent was one of your last three skill points. I suspect this is not the case otherwise you would have already done so.

    The second way involves using either a mod or the console. Depending on how you feel about this you may considering this cheating and to some extent it is although the design of Torchlight has always been supportive of at least having access to the console for individuals to decide what they wish to do.

    Using the console you can either refund all of your skill points by creating respec potions or even fully restat and reskill your character. I have been told (have not reliably tested myself) that using the console for a variety of reasons including restatting will flag you as a console user and flag the character you restat on as a cheater. That said simply respeccing (refunding your skill points) does not flag you.

    I can confirm from personal experience that using a respec potion does not flag you in any way. There is more information about this in the mod forums or if you like you can PM me and I can explain it further or simply trade you a respec potion.
  • Spectear wrote:
    Thanks for posting an actual build. I've had a lot of trouble finding viable information the last few days.

    Do you have your Shooty Outlander build posted anywhere? If not when you get around to it I would appreciate a few comments or another thread dedicated to that. The GlaiveLander build was pretty straight forward and I came to mostly the same conclusions although I still need to hash out my utility spells at higher level (either way it is a minor issue).

    Hopefully you would not mind a slight derail. I assume for your Shooty Outlander you have a similar stat breakdown prioritizing Strength in place of Focus. Guessing Dodge/LRM/Shotgonne/Wealth/VH at a minimum. Are you using Rapid Fire primarily or did you actually give Shadowshot or Chaos Burst a go? Did you level Rapid Fire all the way or just stop at T2? What utility skills did you favor? Guessing you kept at least 1 in RV.

    I was thinking of trying out something with the above skills assuming I could sustain Rapid Fire (assuming it works off mana leech, otherwise I do not see how you could sustain it). Have you found that Physical damage is making your Shooty Outlander a painful experience or is Rapid Fire and/or Blade Pact enough to debuff them for you?

    I have quite a few more questions, but I think it would be best to stop here for now.
    I'll start a thread on it. The viability of a shooting build is very heavily tied to the gear you get. I have a full Sentinel set for both of my Outlanders, and it's a godsend for the shooter on account of the mana steal. It fills the bar in one or two shots. Now I actually have more fun with the shooty build, although in terms of power it's not quite the same. I'm doing some rather exhaustive testing of Venomous Hail at the moment; I want to know exactly how this skill works, because the build implications are substantial.
    Vaggii wrote:
    Yes but dual wands for example CAN increase your offense.. with their passive % modifiers.. Are there any shields with offensive mage stats? or u just use them clearly for defence not caring of offensive stats?
    My current shield is the Crimson Guard, which gives +20% cast speed. I've been carrying around a Roundhaven forever as well for the 29% block chance.
    My question to the op
    My current outlander plan is to do this build but with a shotty for some fun
    glavie already outright kills everything so why not a weapon for some fun
    gonna get dex to a cap i think 100
    then pure focus
    same skill set up expect I plan to get shotty mastery and 1 level of rapid fire
    My question is will getting a elemental shotty or adding elemental gems help me at all?
    Yes, elemental shotguns have their damage modified by Focus. There are some high end shotguns that are mostly or entirely elemental damage, and those are pretty much the holy grail of Focus-loaded hybrid Outlanders.
    Socket wrote:
    Been running with this so far and it's amazing, and Stone Pact is godsend in higher difficulties, especially since you can put down two at a time.

    Also, I have one point in the 360 blade sweep :( I can't get that point back, can I? or is it significant? should I remake?
    Nah, you're fine. You've got plenty of skill points to play with, and a one point sink into that one is arguably a good move anyway if you like the skill.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • I'll start a thread on it. The viability of a shooting build is very heavily tied to the gear you get. I have a full Sentinel set for both of my Outlanders, and it's a godsend for the shooter on account of the mana steal. It fills the bar in one or two shots. Now I actually have more fun with the shooty build, although in terms of power it's not quite the same. I'm doing some rather exhaustive testing of Venomous Hail at the moment; I want to know exactly how this skill works, because the build implications are substantial.
    Thanks I appreciate it. I am curious how you fared prior to getting the Sentinel set on your Shooty Outlander. I interpret your post to mean that you end up burning through mana fairly quickly and get a full bar back with a couple of autos and rinse/repeat? That was about what I expected as well and unfortunately I am not quite as far on either of my Outlanders so my gear is subpar.

    Feel free to reply in your new thread if it makes it easier for you.
  • Empyrean wrote:
    Socket wrote:
    Been running with this so far and it's amazing, and Stone Pact is godsend in higher difficulties, especially since you can put down two at a time.

    Also, I have one point in the 360 blade sweep :( I can't get that point back, can I? or is it significant? should I remake?
    Nah, you're fine. You've got plenty of skill points to play with, and a one point sink into that one is arguably a good move anyway if you like the skill.

    K :) so I should either pick Hex or Sweep, right? both are good? I am thinking of just going with Sweep anyways.
  • Spectear wrote:
    Thanks I appreciate it. I am curious how you fared prior to getting the Sentinel set on your Shooty Outlander. I interpret your post to mean that you end up burning through mana fairly quickly and get a full bar back with a couple of autos and rinse/repeat? That was about what I expected as well and unfortunately I am not quite as far on either of my Outlanders so my gear is subpar.

    Feel free to reply in your new thread if it makes it easier for you.
    It was tricky. I was heavily gearing for mana regen, because without it you're in trouble. With the Sentinel set, you can basically ignore mana costs because as soon as you run out, you blast something with one autoattack and suddenly you have plenty of mana again. It means your combat pacing changes a lot with doing special attacks and autoattacks mixed in at random to fill yourself back up, which is kind of fun, especially after playing mana-starved for so long.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Socket wrote:
    K :) so I should either pick Hex or Sweep, right? both are good? I am thinking of just going with Sweep anyways.
    Both are good. Hex is preemptive and works before enemies get close. At high levels it can hold off quite a few melee opponents indefinitely while you hammer away at them with whatever you want. Sweep only works once enemies are already on you, and it takes time to use it that you could have spent doing other stuff. It's a lot more dangerous, and on Elite you're going to get killed a lot more with Glaive Sweep than you would with Repulsion Hex. It might be worth a point in Glaive Sweep anyway if the **** really hits the fan from monsters jumping off of stuff directly on top of you or something, but it's very much an emergency backup rather than a reliable safeguard like Repulsion Hex.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Then my next request is when possible release your shotty build specs
    even as a hybird g/s build shotty is pretty fun with mastery
    Id love to see what a well geared shotty focused build would do
    And is it me or does anyone see a possible future nerf for glavie throw?
    It feels like with it this powerful it will happen
  • Playing around with the combat logs has shown some really interesting, nay, crazy ****. I will study the ramifications of my discovery and then share it all in a new thread. I think I might have found a way to fix sub-par shootylanders and their awful Strength/Dex problem. I'm literally giggling as I type this. SO MUCH FUN! I AM A MAD GENIUS! :D
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • I don't understand why you using sentinel's set ... ?
  • Subsevens wrote:
    I don't understand why you using sentinel's set ... ?
    Good lord, REALLY? You see a set with +33% faster cast speed and +22% to all damage on top of all the random modifiers that the equipment otherwise gives you, and your reaction is "why?"

    Well gee, I don't know, maybe because it rules?
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • First off i know you want this **** belt! http://i.imgur.com/Tgdlj.jpg. Also thank you very much for this guide! Sadly i didn't see it until i was already lvl 62 so although i can respec my build i can't get back all the points i put into dex without getting flagged as a cheater. :(
  • SefySefy Posts: 6
    Where's the combat log?
  • naudsnauds Posts: 60
    This build is BY FAR the most powerful build I've played so far. I almost 1 hit everything on veteran, I was looking for a class/build I could solo elite with and now I have it :D

    Thanks again Empyrean
  • ohhsnaps wrote:
    First off i know you want this **** belt! http://i.imgur.com/Tgdlj.jpg. Also thank you very much for this guide! Sadly i didn't see it until i was already lvl 62 so although i can respec my build i can't get back all the points i put into dex without getting flagged as a cheater. :(
    I actually have one, I just can't put it on because I lack the Dex and Vitality to equip it. It'll stay in my stash until I'm level 65. Should be good times.
    Sefy wrote:
    Where's the combat log?
    The combat log is in the console. I use it for testing to get definitive damage ranges rather than the randomly rolled damage the game itself comes up with. Incidentally, today I noticed that 15 ranks of Master of the Elements only increases your non-poison damage by 26.5% instead of the listed 30%, and your poison damage by 54.2% instead of the listed 60%. I've already filed a bug report on it. If I were just going by the damage numbers that show up on screen, I'd never notice such a small discrepancy.
    nauds wrote:
    This build is BY FAR the most powerful build I've played so far. I almost 1 hit everything on veteran, I was looking for a class/build I could solo elite with and now I have it :D

    Thanks again Empyrean
    You're welcome. I'm glad you like it. I'll have something else for you guys shortly that should be just as powerful as this, but with a few different tricks I've discovered.
    Trust me, I've checked.
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