My Poison Outlander (with skills analysis)

1246710

Comments

  • Metro wrote:
    Sorry if this is redundant (trying to cobble together the info from the various answers) but what sort of base stats are good to shoot for in a max level character in this build? 100 base in both agility and vitality and the rest in focus? Or is 100 overkill in those two?
    With 110 into Dex you can hit the dodge cap once your relevant skills are cranked and you've got a full charge bar. You need less if you have gear that boosts Dex, which you might have or might not. Vitality's kind of a toss-up. If you want to be tankier but do less damage, get some points in it. My current setup is pure Focus so far, and while a few things can one-shot me in Elite, most of them are pretty easy to avoid if you're paying attention. Stone Pact and Cursed Daggers help a lot with cutting down on incoming damage, so really it's a matter of not getting killed in one hit and regenerating off of Stone Pact or Stone Pact plus health potions, depending on how dangerous the situation is.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • So I was playing last night and noticed that when I switched to a better staff, my magic damage went drastically down. I realized at that point that there wasn't much elemental damage on the staff. But should it matter what exactly the staff's specs are?

    In other words, we should only be looking at bonuses it gives us right? Like +charge, +spell cast, etc. Anything like +45 poison dmg is useless right?
  • Rezoahc wrote:
    So I was playing last night and noticed that when I switched to a better staff, my magic damage went drastically down. I realized at that point that there wasn't much elemental damage on the staff. But should it matter what exactly the staff's specs are?
    The magic damage listed on your character screen is actually damage per hit with the weapon. The damage listed for the weapon doesn't affect your glaives at all, so poison gems are wasted by putting them in your weapon when you're just casting Glaive Throw all the time. Spell casting speed, +X% poison damage, +X% all damage, and critical bonuses are all things you could benefit from on a weapon. Casting speed is the best of them, generally speaking.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Sorry for going off-topic, but did you ever post your shooty build Empyrean? I would really appreciate getting a look at that.
  • Ah, I haven't. It's nothing too creative, really. I'll do that now.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Can you elaborate on venomous hail? You already have plenty of AoE and you are using a pistol which has a lower DPS than a two-hander (VH being reliant on weapon DPS I'd expect it to be of use to a physical outlander, but I haven't rolled one yet so I'm not an expert).

    Thank you for the analysis, it is very informative.
  • Venomous Hail scales with both Strength and Focus equally. Tested this with the combat log myself.

    I use it when I don't have a clear line to the enemy, which is surprisingly often.
    BadKarma wrote:
    Sorry for going off-topic, but did you ever post your shooty build Empyrean? I would really appreciate getting a look at that.
    It's posted now: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=38767
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Do you know if Blade Pact's -x% Armor affects Glaive Throw's damage? I can't access the game right now to make sure it doesn't specify the Armor Type but on the torchlight armory it simply says "Armor" which might mean all armor.
  • Zinsho wrote:
    Do you know if Blade Pact's -x% Armor affects Glaive Throw's damage? I can't access the game right now to make sure it doesn't specify the Armor Type but on the torchlight armory it simply says "Armor" which might mean all armor.
    In game it says physical armor. I haven't tested it, but I would assume the in-game description to be correct. The Torchlight Armory is awful for accuracy; I wouldn't rely on it for anything.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • hey Empyrean, I'm having a hard time sustaining my mana during my gameplay. My build is similar to that of naudes. I have around 20 mana leech with dual suicide wands, lvl5 GT, roughly around 40's base dex/vit, and ~105 focus. I often find myself glaiving, and then either rune'ing, running away, leeching, or potting to make back my sp. Am I doing something wrong, or is it that around level 30's, your equipment and stats, aren't good enough?
  • chungabe wrote:
    hey Empyrean, I'm having a hard time sustaining my mana during my gameplay. My build is similar to that of naudes. I have around 20 mana leech with dual suicide wands, lvl5 GT, roughly around 40's base dex/vit, and ~105 focus. I often find myself glaiving, and then either rune'ing, running away, leeching, or potting to make back my sp. Am I doing something wrong, or is it that around level 30's, your equipment and stats, aren't good enough?
    Probably an equipment deficiency. If you transmute three basic gems it'll give you a random special one, and some of those add to your mana regeneration. Also, early on try to prioritize anything with +X mana/second regeneration on it. Most values around level 30 will be in the 0.8-1.4 mana/second range. They help out immensely. As you level your damage with your Glaive will increase, your mana pool (and mana regen) will increase, and the bonuses for mana regeneration on equipment will increase. Your cost of casting Glaive Throw will remain the same, and it still will take one or two castings to down most enemies. Mana problems for this build get easier as the game progresses, so even if you're struggling a bit right now, don't worry about it too much.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • MetroMetro Posts: 575
    Empyrean wrote:
    Metro wrote:
    Sorry if this is redundant (trying to cobble together the info from the various answers) but what sort of base stats are good to shoot for in a max level character in this build? 100 base in both agility and vitality and the rest in focus? Or is 100 overkill in those two?
    With 110 into Dex you can hit the dodge cap once your relevant skills are cranked and you've got a full charge bar. You need less if you have gear that boosts Dex, which you might have or might not. Vitality's kind of a toss-up. If you want to be tankier but do less damage, get some points in it. My current setup is pure Focus so far, and while a few things can one-shot me in Elite, most of them are pretty easy to avoid if you're paying attention. Stone Pact and Cursed Daggers help a lot with cutting down on incoming damage, so really it's a matter of not getting killed in one hit and regenerating off of Stone Pact or Stone Pact plus health potions, depending on how dangerous the situation is.

    Thanks for the response. Running through on Elite now just to see where the rough spots might be for a possible **** run. As others have mentioned I look forward to your analysis/theorycrafting on other builds and classes.
  • naudsnauds Posts: 60
    chungabe wrote:
    hey Empyrean, I'm having a hard time sustaining my mana during my gameplay. My build is similar to that of naudes. I have around 20 mana leech with dual suicide wands, lvl5 GT, roughly around 40's base dex/vit, and ~105 focus. I often find myself glaiving, and then either rune'ing, running away, leeching, or potting to make back my sp. Am I doing something wrong, or is it that around level 30's, your equipment and stats, aren't good enough?

    I stacked +mana regen early on, and avoided +casting speed until level 20+. Then started to work in casting speed where I could afford it, I also gemmed everything with +mana regen just by transmuting 3 gems over and over until I had enough mana regen gems.
  • AfranAfran Posts: 24
    From what I can see, the build largely becomes a one button mash fest later on, is this the case? Considering such a character for another playthrough but does look too simplistic
  • Afran wrote:
    From what I can see, the build largely becomes a one button mash fest later on, is this the case? Considering such a character for another playthrough but does look too simplistic
    To a large extent, yes. Glaive Throw is way outside the power curve of other skills. A build that is mechanically strong will exploit that and get rather repetitive. That being said, I still use Cursed Daggers on larger groups.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • So i've been looking for an elite viable build that does very high damage, has this build been tested on elite Empyrean? I've been following you around the forums and you seem like a genius in math :shock:. I am looking for a build that has very high damage/spammable and doesnt really rely on potions to be viable in elite. Also how fast does this build kill bosses on elite? Cheers mate :D
  • Disected wrote:
    So i've been looking for an elite viable build that does very high damage, has this build been tested on elite Empyrean? I've been following you around the forums and you seem like a genius in math :shock:. I am looking for a build that has very high damage/spammable and doesnt really rely on potions to be viable in elite. Also how fast does this build kill bosses on elite? Cheers mate :D
    Nah, it doesn't take a math genius to work most of this stuff out. Most of the work is just writing things down.

    Yes, I've tested it on Elite. Works fine. The 5 ranks in Glaive Throw really helps with boss fights, since your damage/mana efficiency is more relevant than your peak damage per second. Just remember to keep Poison Daggers and Stone Pact up so you don't get dropped in a single hit, and dodge around with Rune Vault to minimize the number of hits you take. I use potions during boss fights just to be safe; you don't want to take another hit while regenerating and get dropped.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Thanks man, and great build. +REP
  • This is working well for me. I had lots of mana/sec gems from other characters so it's been a breeze on elite so far... well every now and then I get one shot.

    I'm beginning to think that the biggest single damage increaser might be some increased crit damage since I'm often running around with over 30% crit but only a little over 50% crit damage.

    I imagine if you've already got lots of focus and poison damage increases, another 40% damage is only going to add about 10% overall with 150 focus and 150% poison damage mods (400% + another 40% - I'm pretty sure all the % damage bonuses are additive.) However, 40% to crit damage is going to add (0.7*1+0.3*1.9) / (0.7*1+0.3*1.5) = 10.5% overall. Hmm.. not as impressive as I hoped. Still I've done the math so I might as well post it.

    10% cast speed would do the same thing and is easy enough to come by... although it will upset my mana/sec balance.
  • I've also just discovered something disturbing. I noticed cursed daggers has no damage range so I decided to use it to test damage as any change would be noticeable straight away. Well... it isn't affected by +poison damage%. I hope this is a one off glitch and not the case with glaives as well?
  • cityuk04 wrote:
    I've also just discovered something disturbing. I noticed cursed daggers has no damage range so I decided to use it to test damage as any change would be noticeable straight away. Well... it isn't affected by +poison damage%. I hope this is a one off glitch and not the case with glaives as well?
    It's a one off. Glaives are affected. Cursed Daggers do get the benefit from Master of the Elements, even though other +X% poison effects don't seem to do anything with them.
    cityuk04 wrote:
    I'm beginning to think that the biggest single damage increaser might be some increased crit damage since I'm often running around with over 30% crit but only a little over 50% crit damage.
    Crit damage is additive rather than multiplicative, which makes it pretty easy to compare to Focus in a linear sort of way. Multiply your crit damage modifier by your crit rate, and the result is equal to twice its value in Focus. So 50% crit damage with 30% crit rate = 15% increase in damage = 30 Focus.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • cityuk04cityuk04 Posts: 15
    edited September 2012
    Crit damage is additive rather than multiplicative, which makes it pretty easy to compare to Focus in a linear sort of way. Multiply your crit damage modifier by your crit rate, and the result is equal to twice its value in Focus. So 50% crit damage with 30% crit rate = 15% increase in damage = 30 Focus.

    Nice way to look at it, never thought in those terms before. Don't you also need to consider, when looking at overall dps gains, the amount of a stat you already have. Haivng a lot already reduces the effectiveness of getting more. That is to say 30 focus when you have 0 (100% damage) will add 15% damage overall but 30 focus when you are running at 400 focus (300% damage) will add 5% overall. The key word being overall. That's why I thought increasing an already low stat in this build would help a lot. Turns out it probably doesn't though :) - back to cast speed!
  • on elite mode rly worth put that 100pt into vitality ?

    atm i'm like lv90, started playing in veteran but i noticed fast that there arent many difference from elite for me, if i get hit i get oneshotted in both difficulties, except for some weak enemies that i last like 2/3 hits...
    Basically i play with cursed dagger, stone pact, and blade pact, maxed out any of them, so i debuff the enemies and buff my self a lil with stone pact..
    Now at level 90 i have like 110 dex. giving +74% dodge at full charge with share the wealth (still not maxed out), all the rest of my point into focus....
    At this point what do u suggest Empyrean for the last 50 skill point... put them in vitality ... that atm is at 5 ... so i ll go at 55 vit , or ll be pointells cux i ll get oneshot anyway in elite and then go all focus even with this last 50 pt :!
    I saw on your guide u said 100pt in vit are really helpfull, but i dont know if u were speaking of elite mode.. and in my case i dont know if 55 will worth anyway ... since i cant reallocate my stats :'
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    pumba321 wrote:
    on elite mode rly worth put that 100pt into vitality ?

    atm i'm like lv90, started playing in veteran but i noticed fast that there arent many difference from elite for me, if i get hit i get oneshotted in both difficulties, except for some weak enemies that i last like 2/3 hits...
    Basically i play with cursed dagger, stone pact, and blade pact, maxed out any of them, so i debuff the enemies and buff my self a lil with stone pact..
    Now at level 90 i have like 110 dex. giving +74% dodge at full charge with share the wealth (still not maxed out), all the rest of my point into focus....
    At this point what do u suggest Empyrean for the last 50 skill point... put them in vitality ... that atm is at 5 ... so i ll go at 55 vit , or ll be pointells cux i ll get oneshot anyway in elite and then go all focus even with this last 50 pt :!
    I saw on your guide u said 100pt in vit are really helpfull, but i dont know if u were speaking of elite mode.. and in my case i dont know if 55 will worth anyway ... since i cant reallocate my stats :'

    not really, even with 11k hp mobs pretty much one shot you on elite. Maybe trash mobs just leave you on 2-3k hp left after a hit, and thats just the small one. Thats why repulsion hex and rune vault becomes priceless in elite, and only people that plays on elite realize how useful this skill really is. Its better if you look for items or gems that +hp instead of putting points in vit.

    On a completely unrelated topic (still an outlander stuff tho), we already knows that veno hail also get the effect from the right hand weapon, such as conveys **** physical damage, blindness, etc. One interesting synergy that I found is, with the last legendary wand(type 5), you get an unbelievable synergy with veno hail. In case people doesn't know, the auto attack of the legendary wand type 5 divides its attack into 3 projecticles(similar to that of chaos burst) and bounces once. This means for every wave that veno hail shots, it shots 3 more projectiles from the target(no bounce, since it has been bounced already from the target you hit by venomous hail). I believe this haven't been covered before, and just thought that I would share it because of the fun and the epicness.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • Thanks for the great guide.
  • Thanks for the amazing guide Empyrean!
    I might have missed something, so you recommend a pistol + shield, straight focus and a bit of dex to reach dodge cap.
    Could you also list a complete skills list for a lvl 100, and are there any spells you recommend for this build?
    Thanks again
  • Spells are up to personal preference; Concentration is nice for the extra mana if you have any casting speed boosters, since even with keeping Glaive Throw at 5 ranks you can burn through your mana in a hurry. I went with passive boosts rather than active spells, but I wasn't trying to optimize any particular way.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Hey does it build work with Poison Burst?
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    Poison Burst does not trigger on Glaive Throw or Cursed Daggers, which together should account for the majority of your kills. If you have points in Venomous Hail, Poison Burst will trigger off of those kills, but Venomous Hail kills everything in the radius anyway so the synergy is poor unless you're doing something odd like hailing on brambles next to a boss.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Empyrean wrote:
    Poison Burst does not trigger on Glaive Throw or Cursed Daggers, which together should account for the majority of your kills. If you have points in Venomous Hail, Poison Burst will trigger off of those kills, but Venomous Hail kills everything in the radius anyway so the synergy is poor unless you're doing something odd like hailing on brambles next to a boss.
    Got ya, thanks. Btw, im about to finish the game on veteran mode soon. Just wondering about NG+, what stats and skill points should I invest in all the way to level 100? I hope I can keep the playstyle, it's very effective.
Sign In or Register to comment.