My Poison Outlander (with skills analysis)

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  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    tadinh83 wrote:
    Empyrean wrote:
    Poison Burst does not trigger on Glaive Throw or Cursed Daggers, which together should account for the majority of your kills. If you have points in Venomous Hail, Poison Burst will trigger off of those kills, but Venomous Hail kills everything in the radius anyway so the synergy is poor unless you're doing something odd like hailing on brambles next to a boss.
    Got ya, thanks. Btw, im about to finish the game on veteran mode soon. Just wondering about NG+, what stats and skill points should I invest in all the way to level 100? I hope I can keep the playstyle, it's very effective.
    Once you reach the 110 dex, you should pump all points to focus.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    I'm actually holding off on Dex until later in the build. Until you can get close to maxing out Dodge, it doesn't make as big of a difference as the extra firepower would.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • Another question, how do you deal with the squishiness of your character? I'm lvl 64, have about 400-450 focus (with buffs) and around 2.5-3k health depending on armor. Do I just play cautiously? Should I sacrifice some of my +focus armor for +health?

    It's not that I die often....but if the situation turns bad there's a greater chance I'll wipe cause I'm a glass canon.

    Also on a side note, I have 2 rings that have +56% poison dmg each. Those are good to have right? I don't feel like my dmg has doubled.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    Rezoahc wrote:
    Another question, how do you deal with the squishiness of your character? I'm lvl 64, have about 400-450 focus (with buffs) and around 2.5-3k health depending on armor. Do I just play cautiously? Should I sacrifice some of my +focus armor for +health?

    It's not that I die often....but if the situation turns bad there's a greater chance I'll wipe cause I'm a glass canon.

    Also on a side note, I have 2 rings that have +56% poison dmg each. Those are good to have right? I don't feel like my dmg has doubled.
    You can put +hp gems to your sockets or search for +hp items. However, if by swapping +hp items, you lose your +%poison dmg and stuff, don't do it. Outlander is squishy, that's why defensive skills and utility skills are present in every build. Rune Vault is your friend.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • xylonez wrote:
    Rezoahc wrote:
    Another question, how do you deal with the squishiness of your character? I'm lvl 64, have about 400-450 focus (with buffs) and around 2.5-3k health depending on armor. Do I just play cautiously? Should I sacrifice some of my +focus armor for +health?

    It's not that I die often....but if the situation turns bad there's a greater chance I'll wipe cause I'm a glass canon.

    Also on a side note, I have 2 rings that have +56% poison dmg each. Those are good to have right? I don't feel like my dmg has doubled.
    You can put +hp gems to your sockets or search for +hp items. However, if by swapping +hp items, you lose your +%poison dmg and stuff, don't do it. Outlander is squishy, that's why defensive skills and utility skills are present in every build. Rune Vault is your friend.

    Ahh, yeah! Gems, forgot about those. Yeah, I've got 11 (I think I'll change it to 10 though) pts in repulsion hex and 6 or so pts in blade pact and 1 in runic vault. Slow, Push, escape respectively.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    If you use wand+pistol or don't mind switching weapon sets, you can also consider tangling shot, as well as venomous hail. I have yet, to figure it out on how to prevent this class from dying a lot in boss fights, especially in veteran and elite. It seems to me, that wand+shield is the best way to play on elite, because that's what I'm using right now.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    Rezoahc wrote:
    Another question, how do you deal with the squishiness of your character? I'm lvl 64, have about 400-450 focus (with buffs) and around 2.5-3k health depending on armor. Do I just play cautiously? Should I sacrifice some of my +focus armor for +health?

    It's not that I die often....but if the situation turns bad there's a greater chance I'll wipe cause I'm a glass canon.
    I'd put on some more health gear. I've found that it's usually not a race to see who runs out of hit points first; either you can survive what they throw at you, in which case you'll win sooner or later (probably sooner, because even without pure offense Glaive Throw hits like a truck) or you can't survive what they throw at you, in which case your offense doesn't matter. Playing on Normal is a bit different since you can just one-shot nearly everything. On harder settings, it might be better to aim for being able to survive one hit (but probably not two).
    Rezoahc wrote:
    Also on a side note, I have 2 rings that have +56% poison dmg each. Those are good to have right? I don't feel like my dmg has doubled.
    Those are good to have. Your damage doesn't feel like it's doubled because you're already doing around 300% base damage with 400 Focus. Adding another 112% increases your damage by about one third. The bonuses are added together, not multiplied.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • I have been following this build, and thread ever since it came out! I just wanted to tell the OP, thanks a bunch for the help and support, and to everyone that contributed in this thread conversation. It has really helped me get through the game. :D

    Pikachu!~
  • Do we really need Venomous Hail for this build to work? Cos if I switch to pistol my glaive throw will lose tons of damage, we're talking 1/3 the total damage here.
    I'm using this pistol, is there a better one for level 42? http://imageshack.us/f/571/10012012220831444.jpg/
    Also is wand/pistol viable? I feel much safer having a shield.
  • GuswutGuswut Posts: 83
    tadinh83 wrote:
    Do we really need Venomous Hail for this build to work? Cos if I switch to pistol my glaive throw will lose tons of damage, we're talking 1/3 the total damage here.
    I'm using this pistol, is there a better one for level 42? http://imageshack.us/f/571/10012012220831444.jpg/
    Also is wand/pistol viable? I feel much safer having a shield.

    Pistol/shield could work as well, and I've seen some decent shields with high +poisonDamage%. That's my hope, although I'm only finding wands with it now that I actually want it.

    EDIT: Take a look at this post for some details about pistol/wand, and how it can be abused: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=38219
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    tadinh83 wrote:
    Do we really need Venomous Hail for this build to work? Cos if I switch to pistol my glaive throw will lose tons of damage, we're talking 1/3 the total damage here.
    I'm using this pistol, is there a better one for level 42? http://imageshack.us/f/571/10012012220831444.jpg/
    Also is wand/pistol viable? I feel much safer having a shield.
    wand+pistol is definitely viable. But, yes, you are correct. It's much safer using a shield. Currently I'm running with a wand+shield on my first set, and shotgun on the second set. So, I can swap to my shotty if i ever feel the need to use tangleshot/VH.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • Which skills is better to go for with this build? Is it Flaming Claive or VH?
  • GuswutGuswut Posts: 83
    Victorii wrote:
    Which skills is better to go for with this build? Is it Flaming Claive or VH?

    There isn't too much overlap between Flaming Glaive and Venomous Hail, but between the two Venomous Hail is the skill that appears to be better liked as it is much easier to use, and gives you a truly long range non-line-of-sight attack.
  • bullitt411bullitt411 Posts: 4
    edited October 2012
    This is my build using the guidelines of the OP. [LINK DELETED]

    Point distribution went as follows:

    350 into Focus (lvl 1-71)
    95 into Dex (lvl 72-90)
    50 into Str (last 10 lvls)

    My gear is pretty terrible, I havent had much luck finding anything too great but with this build everything dies fairly well.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    bullitt411 wrote:
    This is my build using the guidelines of the OP. [LINK DELETED]

    Point distribution went as follows:

    350 into Focus (lvl 1-71)
    95 into Dex (lvl 72-95)
    50 into Str (last 5 lvls)

    My gear is pretty terrible, I havent had much luck finding anything too great but with this build everything dies fairly well.
    Blade pact is a much more useful skill than flaiming glaives. Str is a bad investment.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • Guswut wrote:
    Victorii wrote:
    Which skills is better to go for with this build? Is it Flaming Claive or VH?

    There isn't too much overlap between Flaming Glaive and Venomous Hail, but between the two Venomous Hail is the skill that appears to be better liked as it is much easier to use, and gives you a truly long range non-line-of-sight attack.

    Ok thanks!
    And what about vitality for survivability? Worth it or not done?
  • GuswutGuswut Posts: 83
    Victorii wrote:
    Guswut wrote:
    Victorii wrote:
    Which skills is better to go for with this build? Is it Flaming Claive or VH?

    There isn't too much overlap between Flaming Glaive and Venomous Hail, but between the two Venomous Hail is the skill that appears to be better liked as it is much easier to use, and gives you a truly long range non-line-of-sight attack.

    Ok thanks!
    And what about vitality for survivability? Worth it or not done?

    At a certain point, you're going to end up getting one-hit murdered no matter how much vitality you have used. I'm not sure where that point is, myself, as I haven't used anything but focus on my glaivelander and strength (minus a few levels of misunderstanding about dexterity) on my shootlander, but if I get caught in a group of enemies I usually end up nearly dead or dead. Mind you, that usually only happens when I start to lose focus and do something stupid.

    I'm in the camp of "The best defense is offense".
  • xylonez wrote:
    bullitt411 wrote:
    This is my build using the guidelines of the OP. [LINK DELETED]

    Point distribution went as follows:

    350 into Focus (lvl 1-71)
    95 into Dex (lvl 72-95)
    50 into Str (last 5 lvls)

    My gear is pretty terrible, I havent had much luck finding anything too great but with this build everything dies fairly well.
    Blade pact is a much more useful skill than flaiming glaives. Str is a bad investment.


    2 quick questions xylonez.....Do you feel that the Blade Pact debuff is > the Flaming Glaive damage + poison debuff? I never really considered using BP. Also, instead of the last points in STR, should I just dump more into focus then? Thanks in advance.
  • GuswutGuswut Posts: 83
    bullitt411 wrote:
    xylonez wrote:
    bullitt411 wrote:
    This is my build using the guidelines of the OP. [LINK DELETED]

    Point distribution went as follows:

    350 into Focus (lvl 1-71)
    95 into Dex (lvl 72-95)
    50 into Str (last 5 lvls)

    My gear is pretty terrible, I havent had much luck finding anything too great but with this build everything dies fairly well.
    Blade pact is a much more useful skill than flaiming glaives. Str is a bad investment.

    2 quick questions xylonez.....Do you feel that the Blade Pact debuff is > the Flaming Glaive damage + poison debuff? I never really considered using BP. Also, instead of the last points in STR, should I just dump more into focus then? Thanks in advance.

    Flaming glaive is harder to use than blade pact, although the full investment's -45% to poison is really good looking (although it is additive surely, so it's not as good as it appears).

    There is no reason to invest in strength as it won't increase the damage you do as you're making a glaivelander. Each point in focus adds 0.5% to your magic damage, which is where your damage comes into play.
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    tadinh83 wrote:
    Do we really need Venomous Hail for this build to work? Cos if I switch to pistol my glaive throw will lose tons of damage, we're talking 1/3 the total damage here.
    I'm using this pistol, is there a better one for level 42? http://imageshack.us/f/571/10012012220831444.jpg/
    Also is wand/pistol viable? I feel much safer having a shield.
    You should not use Venomous Hail when Glaive Throw can hit. Venomous Hail is great because it can hit when nothing else can.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    bullitt411 wrote:
    xylonez wrote:
    bullitt411 wrote:
    This is my build using the guidelines of the OP. [LINK DELETED]

    Point distribution went as follows:

    350 into Focus (lvl 1-71)
    95 into Dex (lvl 72-95)
    50 into Str (last 5 lvls)

    My gear is pretty terrible, I havent had much luck finding anything too great but with this build everything dies fairly well.
    Blade pact is a much more useful skill than flaiming glaives. Str is a bad investment.


    2 quick questions xylonez.....Do you feel that the Blade Pact debuff is > the Flaming Glaive damage + poison debuff? I never really considered using BP. Also, instead of the last points in STR, should I just dump more into focus then? Thanks in advance.
    1. In the long run, yes, I think blade pact will increase your damage output more than FG. Since the damage increase that comes from focus and +% elemental damage are additive, 45% will become less as the game progress further.
    2. Yes, I see no point in dumping points in str as your main skills, glaive, isn't affected by str.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • Hi all,

    I just recently started playing TL2 and finished the story on normal the other night. Currently running some maps while working through NG+.

    I have a pretty straighforward question, how does the % mana steal on the Sentinel set work for a glaiveuser ? I haven't tried it out, but I saw the link to Empyreans set in this thread and figured I'd ask. It's pretty obvious the 22% dmg and 33% castspeed bonuses are huge, but I am curious if the mana steal is a total waste (unless you make standard attacks with gun etc) ?

    Thanks in advance,
    Totte
  • Unless the Skill expressly states that such abilities will work, Rune Vault for example, you have to do an autoattack. It is however the usual method to counter the mana needs early-mid game and later switch to manareg sockets.
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    totte922 wrote:
    Hi all,

    I just recently started playing TL2 and finished the story on normal the other night. Currently running some maps while working through NG+.

    I have a pretty straighforward question, how does the % mana steal on the Sentinel set work for a glaiveuser ? I haven't tried it out, but I saw the link to Empyreans set in this thread and figured I'd ask. It's pretty obvious the 22% dmg and 33% castspeed bonuses are huge, but I am curious if the mana steal is a total waste (unless you make standard attacks with gun etc) ?

    Thanks in advance,
    Totte
    You can mana steal with regular attacks off of your brambles. Cast it, whack at it once or twice with a staff (wands usually miss) or an elemental shotgun if you have one (later on this is an option) and you're full again. Very handy to keep the murdertrain going with minimal downtime or potion use.
    Unless the Skill expressly states that such abilities will work, Rune Vault for example, you have to do an autoattack.
    Note that non-leech abilities do trigger off of other attacks based on weapon damage. You can set guys on fire with Chaos Burst if you have a flaming weapon, for example.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • EsteEste Posts: 88
    Hi there.

    Awesome work on this little guide, I'm following it mostly and having a blast. I have yet to find another build for any char that feels as powerful as this one.


    Wit that being said, I'm lvl 65 now and I'm running into a tiny problem: I'm hoarding skill points. Can you guys recommend any particular skill, once the basics are covered?

    I left Glaive Sweep at rank1, since I never found myself being surrounded - either anything dies way before it can touch me or I get oneshotted. So I don't really see a point in getting this one.

    Basically, Glaive Throw at 5; Master of Elements, Share the Wealth, Cursed Daggers, Repulsion Hex, Stone Pact, Dodge Mastery at cap; Glaive Sweep and Rune Vault at 1. I'm lvl 66 now and have 10 SP left and it starts to bother me because I feel like I shouldn't just let them sit there.

    Any ideas? I'm not seeing how Blade Pact would help me. Thought about getting Shadowmantle but the 10s duration is not really ideal. Maybe Shadowling Brute? Venomous Hail seems to be mentioned a couple times but it's based of the weapon dps which makes it rather unattractive.

    So, any input?

    Thanks in advance.
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    Blade Pact can help you by slowing down enemy attacks. This is mostly helpful for boss fights. The physical damage reduction doesn't help you, but the attack speed gives you extra time to dodge. Shadowmantle is a toss-up... I don't use it myself. Venomous Hail is a skill that I like quite a lot just because it hits when nothing else can, and makes for a relatively safe way to engage enemies without exposing yourself to too much danger. You'll need a decent weapon to make it work; either switch over to a shotgun or get a pistol with good on-hit effects that can be triggered multiple times with the Venomous Hail.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • EsteEste Posts: 88
    Sounds like it could be useful. Totally gonna give it a shot.

    Thanks for your rapid reply, you really are an asset to the community.
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    Thanks. Might as well be useful, eh? :)
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • LNQLNQ Posts: 49
    I'm curious. You mention that you play with the build on Normal, but have you tried how they fare on Veteran or Elite?

    For example, you said that you don't use Shadowmantle yourself, whereas I've found it to be absolutely crucial on the harder difficulties. Going for max damage seems kind of futile when you get one-shotted against most enemies. I find the game too fast paced to make much use of vaulting; some of the enemy attacks are just too random or fast to be able to skill-dodge them consistently.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    LNQ wrote:
    I'm curious. You mention that you play with the build on Normal, but have you tried how they fare on Veteran or Elite?

    For example, you said that you don't use Shadowmantle yourself, whereas I've found it to be absolutely crucial on the harder difficulties. Going for max damage seems kind of futile when you get one-shotted against most enemies. I find the game too fast paced to make much use of vaulting; some of the enemy attacks are just too random or fast to be able to skill-dodge them consistently.
    Shadowmantle seems decent for a short dur buff before fighting a boss, but it's not a buff where you want to use it against trash mobs. The point of the defensive buff(like repulsion hex), is to save you when your reflex is not good enough or when you caught by surprise. In this case, shadowmantle fail to do so, because of it's cooldown time.

    You want to use this skill before you jump into a fight, and activating shadowmantle when an enemy shot you is not a smart play. It's probably better to use rune vault in that case.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
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