My Poison Outlander (with skills analysis)

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  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    LNQ wrote:
    I'm curious. You mention that you play with the build on Normal, but have you tried how they fare on Veteran or Elite?

    For example, you said that you don't use Shadowmantle yourself, whereas I've found it to be absolutely crucial on the harder difficulties. Going for max damage seems kind of futile when you get one-shotted against most enemies. I find the game too fast paced to make much use of vaulting; some of the enemy attacks are just too random or fast to be able to skill-dodge them consistently.
    A combination of +health gear and a shield with a good block rate (easily the best lower-level shield is Roundhaven, thanks to 29% base block rate, at the high end you want Parma's Coal-Burner with 45% base block rate) is how I manage. Against enemies you can't dodge (like those machine gun turrets) I rune vault away as soon as I see them, and try to bounce glaives onto them or bombard them with Venomous Hail from a safe position.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • EsteEste Posts: 88
    I'm starting to get into trouble in NG+ act3 defensive-wise. I'm pretty much running full offensive (+200% poison dmg plus loads of focus. Basically my whole gear is berzerk style).

    Should I try to up armor values and vit (via equip) or is having a higher HP pool enough?

    It's really a little stressful right now. I'm running around like on crack (speed wise) and oneshotting most stuff, but occasionally I'm running into something nasty and get oneshotted myself if I'm not paying attention.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    Este wrote:
    I'm starting to get into trouble in NG+ act3 defensive-wise. I'm pretty much running full offensive (+200% poison dmg plus loads of focus. Basically my whole gear is berzerk style).

    Should I try to up armor values and vit (via equip) or is having a higher HP pool enough?

    It's really a little stressful right now. I'm running around like on crack (speed wise) and oneshotting most stuff, but occasionally I'm running into something nasty and get oneshotted myself if I'm not paying attention.
    Both methods can work. I don't play ng+, so I don't know how you often you get items and skulls, but Mapworks give some pretty good drops for me. The good thing about mapworks is that you can jump to a higher level dungeons, which gives you better exp and better loot. If you play elite, then most of the stuff are going to one-hit you and you can't really do anything about that. The only thing you can do is get +hp gears(+vit gears included) or equipped a shield.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    Este wrote:
    I'm starting to get into trouble in NG+ act3 defensive-wise. I'm pretty much running full offensive (+200% poison dmg plus loads of focus. Basically my whole gear is berzerk style).

    Should I try to up armor values and vit (via equip) or is having a higher HP pool enough?

    It's really a little stressful right now. I'm running around like on crack (speed wise) and oneshotting most stuff, but occasionally I'm running into something nasty and get oneshotted myself if I'm not paying attention.
    Higher HP pool is the safer bet. The best you can do is get a shield with a really good block rate, and move FAST. I've taken to using Haste a lot just because sprinting all over the place and Rune Vaulting away from incoming attacks is extremely effective and a lot of fun. I still try to have enough HP that I don't get popped by the weaker stuff, although you pretty much have to accept that a bigger attack is going to drop you.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • EsteEste Posts: 88
    I'm actually running with a shield anyway. Of course it's an offensive one that ups my poison dmg and focus attribute (you see the pattern? :P).

    Guess I'll get me a more defensive one. Additionally I'll start to fill my gear with more +HP gems - I was planning on farming me some more of those nice +poison dmg gems (who would have thought?) but not dying is probably better than "tripple oneshotting" trash mobs (i.e. having way too much damage anyway ^^).

    Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it. I also used my left-over skill points to up Venomous Hale and I really love it. I have yet to find a decent weapon to make it really hurt but it's serving it's purpose already. Quite nice, comparable to Hail Storm targeting wise. Nice addition to my build indeed.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    Este wrote:
    I'm actually running with a shield anyway. Of course it's an offensive one that ups my poison dmg and focus attribute (you see the pattern? :P).

    Guess I'll get me a more defensive one. Additionally I'll start to fill my gear with more +HP gems - I was planning on farming me some more of those nice +poison dmg gems (who would have thought?) but not dying is probably better than "tripple oneshotting" trash mobs (i.e. having way too much damage anyway ^^).

    Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it. I also used my left-over skill points to up Venomous Hale and I really love it. I have yet to find a decent weapon to make it really hurt but it's serving it's purpose already. Quite nice, comparable to Hail Storm targeting wise. Nice addition to my build indeed.
    + poison gems as in.. venom ember? I never see a poison game that's % instead of a flat value.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • AcrylikAcrylik Posts: 1,848
    yo empyrean, you only need 103 dex (not points put in, dex at 103) to get max dodge with the max dodge mastery, wealth and uhh.. something else. maybe not- OH YEAH focus maxed. haha

    thought id "share the wealth".


    btw cursed daggers or whatever is basically mandatory at maxed rank or what u can get at elite. so's stone pact.

    putting on dervish and elemental overloads with a stone pact on you for bosses is choice too, i would suggest 3 overload and 1 dervish, but i got mana regen and shield block instead so i could get 75 dodge and 50 block with mana regen for obvious reasons. i can basically sit in front of the alchemist in my stone pact spamming glaives like a madman until he does one of his overpowering attacks, then u just backflip as needed.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    Acrylik wrote:
    yo empyrean, you only need 103 dex (not points put in, dex at 103) to get max dodge with the max dodge mastery, wealth and uhh.. something else. maybe not- OH YEAH focus maxed. haha

    thought id "share the wealth".


    btw cursed daggers or whatever is basically mandatory at maxed rank or what u can get at elite. so's stone pact.

    putting on dervish and elemental overloads with a stone pact on you for bosses is choice too, i would suggest 3 overload and 1 dervish, but i got mana regen and shield block instead so i could get 75 dodge and 50 block with mana regen for obvious reasons. i can basically sit in front of the alchemist in my stone pact spamming glaives like a madman until he does one of his overpowering attacks, then u just backflip as needed.
    Wouldn't the overload share the same.. um.. cooldowns?
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    Acrylik wrote:
    yo empyrean, you only need 103 dex (not points put in, dex at 103) to get max dodge with the max dodge mastery, wealth and uhh.. something else. maybe not- OH YEAH focus maxed. haha

    You've got something else adding to your dodge, and it's not Focus.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    Empyrean wrote:
    Acrylik wrote:
    yo empyrean, you only need 103 dex (not points put in, dex at 103) to get max dodge with the max dodge mastery, wealth and uhh.. something else. maybe not- OH YEAH focus maxed. haha

    You've got something else adding to your dodge, and it's not Focus.
    +% dodge chance that is.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • Great job here! I got a noob question about the skill Shadowmantle, does it reflect magic spells aswell or just normal ranged attacks?
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    Great job here! I got a noob question about the skill Shadowmantle, does it reflect magic spells aswell or just normal ranged attacks?
    I believe it's only ranged attacks. I never really had the chance to test it out, since I don't use the skill myself.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • AcrylikAcrylik Posts: 1,848
    edited October 2012
    Empyrean wrote:
    Acrylik wrote:
    yo empyrean, you only need 103 dex (not points put in, dex at 103) to get max dodge with the max dodge mastery, wealth and uhh.. something else. maybe not- OH YEAH focus maxed. haha

    You've got something else adding to your dodge, and it's not Focus.

    i tested it on a naked character.. ill retest this now.

    oh it was the dodge mastery thing.

    and idk if overload shares cd's for different ranks, in tl1 it didnt.

    your dex needs to be at 109 for 75% chance to dodge with max focus, dodge mastery and share the wealth

    so yeah 10 str
    109 dex
    316 focus
    100 vitality

    i dont think +%'s for shields just add on top. not the base one, the multipliers... that or you have a hidden 1% block.

    so yeah with 100 vit at 18 % block, this hidden 1% if im not mistaken, a 15% shield and blocking rank 6 youd be at 46% chance to block. so you'd need a shield with a +4-5% chance to block modifier on it (depending on how this 1% appeared on a naked character) to get capped at 50% block.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    Acrylik wrote:
    Empyrean wrote:
    Acrylik wrote:
    yo empyrean, you only need 103 dex (not points put in, dex at 103) to get max dodge with the max dodge mastery, wealth and uhh.. something else. maybe not- OH YEAH focus maxed. haha

    You've got something else adding to your dodge, and it's not Focus.

    i tested it on a naked character.. ill retest this now.

    oh it was the dodge mastery thing.

    and idk if overload shares cd's for different ranks, in tl1 it didnt.

    your dex needs to be at 109 for 75% chance to dodge with max focus, dodge mastery and share the wealth

    so yeah 10 str
    109 dex
    316 focus
    100 vitality

    i dont think +%'s for shields just add on top. not the base one, the multipliers... that or you have a hidden 1% block.
    I tested it just now, basically you can put more than 1 in the spells and they all got separate CDs, but you can't stack the buff. It will just override the old one, assuming that you still have the previous buff active.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • AcrylikAcrylik Posts: 1,848
    lame. oh well, room for passives.

    elemental overload and dervish are still rapesauce tho, i use just one and one.

    just use blocking and concentration 6 with overload and dervish 6 imo. thats what ill do when i find a suitable shield.
  • AcrylikAcrylik Posts: 1,848
    edited October 2012
    core of fate and crimson guard. 15% and 2%, so you'd need to invest a bit more into vitality.

    [LINK DELETED]

    [LINK DELETED]

    because that block chance coupled with dodge on elite will be worth it.

    after that stack all of your armor for +dmg, focus and hp(not vit) bonuses so you can survive a hit. socket the items with mana regen gems imo.

    id say pump skills into glaive till 5-15 as long as you can spam about 30 in a row. you wont realisticly need to spam forever, just be able to do it enough since whatever regen u have will get demolished with dervish and whatever else u do.
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    Core of Fate is like having 30 more Focus. That's... not very good. The Crimson Guard is good with its +20% cast speed, though. I actually used one for quite a while.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • AcrylikAcrylik Posts: 1,848
    but you have 30 more focus on something that you can add more focus to with enchantments? plus it has more defense all around.

    thats what i was looking at at least.. i think either shield would be tight.


    im just posting what i plan to do with the build, no one wants to get one shot on elite with 2-3 other people around or if its ****, so i'm trying to make mine tankyer.
  • LNQLNQ Posts: 49
    xylonez wrote:
    LNQ wrote:
    I'm curious. You mention that you play with the build on Normal, but have you tried how they fare on Veteran or Elite?

    For example, you said that you don't use Shadowmantle yourself, whereas I've found it to be absolutely crucial on the harder difficulties. Going for max damage seems kind of futile when you get one-shotted against most enemies. I find the game too fast paced to make much use of vaulting; some of the enemy attacks are just too random or fast to be able to skill-dodge them consistently.
    Shadowmantle seems decent for a short dur buff before fighting a boss, but it's not a buff where you want to use it against trash mobs. The point of the defensive buff(like repulsion hex), is to save you when your reflex is not good enough or when you caught by surprise. In this case, shadowmantle fail to do so, because of it's cooldown time.

    You want to use this skill before you jump into a fight, and activating shadowmantle when an enemy shot you is not a smart play. It's probably better to use rune vault in that case.

    I have Shadowmantle at lvl5, where its cooldown is 25 and seems to be going down 1 sec per level, so I believe its cooldown will be 15 seconds at level 15. That means you can stay immune to ranged attacks for two thirds of the time. With proper socketing even when shadowmantle is down you can keep yourself at 50% reflection chance. I feel like that is a huge combo to be paired that with a block rate of 50+ as Empyrean mentioned, and a repulsion hex and a dodge rating in the 60s.

    I'm not convinced that Shadowmantle isn't a must have for any Outlander build. Thing is, anyone can deal enough damage, and as long as you're not one-shotting enemies (as you won't be on Elite), they one-shotting you are always a threat, so you want to maximize your ability to stay alive even when the attacks keep coming.
  • AcrylikAcrylik Posts: 1,848
    edited October 2012
    i was looking at shadow mantle... it seems viable as ****.

    whats the console command to get core of fate?
  • LNQLNQ Posts: 49
    Empyrean wrote:
    LNQ wrote:
    I'm curious. You mention that you play with the build on Normal, but have you tried how they fare on Veteran or Elite?

    For example, you said that you don't use Shadowmantle yourself, whereas I've found it to be absolutely crucial on the harder difficulties. Going for max damage seems kind of futile when you get one-shotted against most enemies. I find the game too fast paced to make much use of vaulting; some of the enemy attacks are just too random or fast to be able to skill-dodge them consistently.
    A combination of +health gear and a shield with a good block rate (easily the best lower-level shield is Roundhaven, thanks to 29% base block rate, at the high end you want Parma's Coal-Burner with 45% base block rate) is how I manage. Against enemies you can't dodge (like those machine gun turrets) I rune vault away as soon as I see them, and try to bounce glaives onto them or bombard them with Venomous Hail from a safe position.

    Alright, we have a really different tactic there. :) With the turrets I just move next to them with shadowmantle on and they die in about a second from the damage reflection.
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    If you want a more survivable build, get something with a better block rate. Roundhaven gives you a 29% base block rate and is level 23. If you want tank, don't use Core of Fate. If you want more damage, don't use Core of Fate. If you want a mix of both, don't use Core of Fate. You don't plan to use that shield; you use it when you haven't found something better, and no matter what it is you want from a shield, there's always something better.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • AcrylikAcrylik Posts: 1,848
    whatever u say.. im still using it. in my eyes it's the better choice.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    Acrylik wrote:
    i was looking at shadow mantle... it seems viable as ****.

    whats the console command to get core of fate?
    Not really. I've explained this maybe more than ten times, I even get bored of it.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • AcrylikAcrylik Posts: 1,848
    xylonez wrote:
    Acrylik wrote:
    i was looking at shadow mantle... it seems viable as ****.

    whats the console command to get core of fate?
    Not really. I've explained this maybe more than ten times, I even get bored of it.

    okay captain sarcasm. wasnt asking for an explanation on that, was leaving input.
  • AcrylikAcrylik Posts: 1,848
    its 16 seconds at level 15 for shadow mantle. could go nicely with stone pact.
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    Acrylik wrote:
    whatever u say.. im still using it. in my eyes it's the better choice.
    Get your eyes checked; it's inferior. You do realize that typed damage bonuses like that are additive not multiplicative, right? At 400 Focus, that 15% damage actually only gives you a damage increase of 5%. Compare this to something like the Centerwing, which not only gives you a better block rate, but increases your cast speed by 15%, which translates into an actual 15% damage increase no matter how high your Focus is.

    I can't believe anybody would use the console to give themselves an item that actually kind of ****.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    Acrylik wrote:
    okay captain sarcasm. wasnt asking for an explanation on that, was leaving input.
    I know that you are statting your opinion, that's why I'm telling you it's not viable. It looks as if it's decent, but it's not.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • AcrylikAcrylik Posts: 1,848
    xylonez wrote:
    Acrylik wrote:
    okay captain sarcasm. wasnt asking for an explanation on that, was leaving input.
    I know that you are statting your opinion, that's why I'm telling you it's not viable. It looks as if it's decent, but it's not.

    yeah.. no i agree. its a pretty heavy investment for the cd and length it lasts.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    Acrylik wrote:
    xylonez wrote:
    Acrylik wrote:
    okay captain sarcasm. wasnt asking for an explanation on that, was leaving input.
    I know that you are statting your opinion, that's why I'm telling you it's not viable. It looks as if it's decent, but it's not.

    yeah.. no i agree. its a pretty heavy investment for the cd and length it lasts.
    Exactly. If only they double the duration and the CDs, it might be decent enough for a short dur buff.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
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