Elite **** Berserker Build

BmanBman Posts: 5
edited October 2012 in TL2 Hardcore Mode
After about 8 tries, I THINK I have a working Elite **** Berserker Build

I just finished the the first level (Protect the Guardian) and I am Level 14. I clear out maps before going into side dungeons. I farm out a map as much as I can (but I don't reset spawns).


Stat Distribution: +3 Vitality
+2 Focus

Preferred Skills:

Hunter:

+1 level blood Hunger (5% on first level, +0.5% for following levels isn't worth it to me)
+1 Eviscerate (Allows me to hit an entire group when Charge is built for group criticals)
+5 Executioner (Execute often and
+1 Rampage (Faster attack speed means I get to Charge Faster)

Tundra:
Nah. I don't the physical damage boost skill yet nor the slow frost spells as my damage comes from crits. Defense is more important.

Shadow:

+4 Frenzy (More frenzy means more crit. Ideally I want Charge to last an entire fight)
+5 Shred Armor (Focusing on this as much as I can becasue Defense is really important)

Equipment:
Always look for highest armor rating and Dual Knucks

Overall:

Since Berserkers have a charge that allows them to generate a LOT of damage very easily, I am experimenting with ignoring strength completely. I put points into focus so that I can Execute and build charge ASAP to get constant crits. This justifies the dual knucks too instead of sword and board for me.

I put +3 Armor because I play **** and I absolutely do NOT want to get oneshotted before my potions can help me. Also Blood Hunger restores by maximum health so more VIT helps that lifesteal too.

So far so good, feedback is appreciated.

Comments

  • I feel like not having a shield is going to hurt you in the long run. Shields mitigate physical AND magical attacks, and also give you more slots for armor gems. They're just amazing all around.
  • Interesting build, I am currently following it (loosely). I tried using sword and board and found it just the same as double knuckles.
    With no STR, 1hd sword doesn't give the dps and whilst the Shield provides damage mitigation, in my case it wasn't anywhere near
    enough to make it worthwhile.

    low dps = long battles and high damage taken < high burst dps = quick battles and high damage taken in a short time frame.

    Self Heals have been next to useless and I was going through HP like no ones business. So currently I am trying the high focus
    path and see if that's any better.
  • RiwRiw Posts: 118
    IMO not investing into STR and DEX means you can't use best armor or weapons, hurting you in the long run. I prefer +3 VIT, +1 STR, +1 DEX. It also gives you more dodge, improving your overall defense needed for HC, while investing in focus does not help your defense at all.
  • AttackGorillaAttackGorilla Posts: 1,656
    Just for fun I have started a **** berserker build the other day that puts all point in Vit and only uses Ice skills and passives. (still low in level though, so I haven't gotten an Ice skill yet....)
    I have done more stable build with the other classes but wanted to try a very narrow channel build to see how it ends up down the line.
  • By not investing in STR and DEX you can still gain access to most weps due to the item/ char level of said wep however at max lvl I don't know if that will still be the case.
  • BmanBman Posts: 5
    pedrnorth » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:43 am
    I feel like not having a shield is going to hurt you in the long run. Shields mitigate physical AND magical attacks, and also give you more slots for armor gems. They're just amazing all around.

    I think you may have a good point. My answer is that I don`t know because I haven`t been using a shield at all in my plays. I feel that dual weapon plays better into the goal of generating charge fast, but I am at the Frosted Hills now and I find that spellcaster enemies are frickn scary right now.
    Zabrilla » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:18 am
    Interesting build, I am currently following it (loosely). I tried using sword and board and found it just the same as double knuckles.
    With no STR, 1hd sword doesn't give the dps and whilst the Shield provides damage mitigation, in my case it wasn't anywhere near
    enough to make it worthwhile.

    low dps = long battles and high damage taken < high burst dps = quick battles and high damage taken in a short time frame.

    Self Heals have been next to useless and I was going through HP like no ones business. So currently I am trying the high focus
    path and see if that's any better

    Good to see you`re experimenting too. Let us know how it goes. I agree that a Berserker`s self heals are insufficient that`s why I only put one point into Blood Hunger. I am still popping a lot of potions too though but I haven`t seen too many legit defensive options other than getting more vitality
    Riw » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:39 am
    IMO not investing into STR and DEX means you can't use best armor or weapons, hurting you in the long run. I prefer +3 VIT, +1 STR, +1 DEX. It also gives you more dodge, improving your overall defense needed for HC, while investing in focus does not help your defense at all.

    I think all weapons are accessible at certain levels whether or not you have their primary stats. My counter argument to you is that +1 Dex offers a negligible dodge chance. +1 Strength does nothing. +2 focus helps you build charge faster by Execute and you can more quickly get to constant crits. I think focus is a much better offensive option, while I agree it does not help defense.
    Just for fun I have started a **** berserker build the other day that puts all point in Vit and only uses Ice skills and passives. (still low in level though, so I haven't gotten an Ice skill yet....)
    I have done more stable build with the other classes but wanted to try a very narrow channel build to see how it ends up down the line.

    That`s cool. You get to learn about the ice line whether or not it succeeds. I honestly don`t see the value of the ice line yet so it would be good to hear your thoughts afterwards. Instead of crit damage it would probably involve more blowing up frozen targets.
    Zabrilla » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:41 pm
    By not investing in STR and DEX you can still gain access to most weps due to the item/ char level of said wep however at max lvl I don't know if that will still be the case.

    Yeah that`s what I`m thinking too. I might get owned in the late game, but so far I think Focus is the best offensive primary stat for Berserkers (at least the way this build works).
  • I've got something along those lines but in veteran and I can already tell you it will quickly fall apart unless you "cheat", farm or any other devious means to make the game easier, then your "build" isn't really working you are just higher lvl than mobs
    'm lvl40 vet and have 100% execute maxed blood hunger shred armor etc...use frenzy fishes when I have some and still die because this build only works when you hit something, for example i can tank/hit a boss forever as long as I hit him BUT as soon as they start casting area damage spells etc.. and you are forced to run away your life goes away very very fast because all your buffs vanishes

    I don't think there's a viable berseker elite build at leats not one based on full melee, maybe one using ice spells or minions and I'm not even talking about elite ****, **** is broken for me this far, I wouldn't even start another HC character on veteran so elite...
  • BmanBman Posts: 5
    I've got something along those lines but in veteran and I can already tell you it will quickly fall apart unless you "cheat", farm or any other devious means to make the game easier, then your "build" isn't really working you are just higher lvl than mobs
    'm lvl40 vet and have 100% execute maxed blood hunger shred armor etc...use frenzy fishes when I have some and still die because this build only works when you hit something, for example i can tank/hit a boss forever as long as I hit him BUT as soon as they start casting area damage spells etc.. and you are forced to run away your life goes away very very fast because all your buffs vanishes

    I don't think there's a viable berseker elite build at leats not one based on full melee, maybe one using ice spells or minions and I'm not even talking about elite ****, **** is broken for me this far, I wouldn't even start another HC character on veteran so elite...

    I have a feeling that you may be right as well. The more I think about Elite **** mode the more I think that a player has to go beyond any "build" and use every dirty trick possible. For example, switching to a ranged weapon for certain enemies. Elite **** demands adaptation to different scenarios instead of sticking one build throughout the playthrough.

    Having said that, I am still pretty happy with my build ^_^
  • herionzherionz Posts: 127
    Hello, I see that @Zabrilla posted here because he was having troubles with the berserker as most of you seem to have for **** Elite. I've only been doing **** elite since the game launched, but my class was the embermage. At first I lost 2 of them, then manage to get another one to level 27 but made the mistake of playing with a 5 man party. Anyway, my point is that I was playing with him for some time, and I've seen him die at first with some of them so I decided to try it myself and see if I could manage to create a viable build for a melee Berzeker to help him out.

    Not only managed to create an experimental build that works. It's completely awesome. Only thing is that is kinda mana dependant for some group of monsters but it's easily solved by having always mana pots on you (as every char should :P) or, this is the best option, having a claw with mana leech.

    I can't show you how to play the build the right way since I design it based on my playstyle.

    Build is: Vit/Str with claw/shield as main weapons. At early 2 levels push 10 points in STR for early best claws, then after that only push Vit every level until you hit 50 vit, then do 10 points VIT (2 levels) and 5 (STR), you can also push some DEX or Focus around levels 14-17. Frost maps are the most annoying.

    Skills: Most important part of the design. At level 2 grab "shadow burst" this is going to be your core skill. You will want to max it asap. Drop eviscerate as soon as you hit town since is rather useless. Change that point to early "Blood hunger" and you can keep up with that point for like 20 levels or even more. Next really important passive is "Shred armor", the leeching and armor debuff you apply will help you at surviving better in melee, going full hand to hand with all bosses and champs (they can't output enough damage with basic attacks on you because of how much you are going to heal and the extra armor you leech). *Side note: As example, with the shred armor and the fast hitting claws (below .48) I go from 137 basic armor to 250, basically I double my armor so I neglect most of the physical damage which makes me able to go over monsters groups without much problem.

    As a matter of play style, the most important thing of this build is that you master the "shadow burst" moving rhythm. This skill will make you unkillable since:
    a) You are able to jump through monsters, basically avoiding most of their attacks, being able to get the back of the boss when he launches a skill (as example, works wonders for Chillhoof since as soon as you see him lower his head, you just jump through him and keep meleeing, since his stomps deals 10x less damage than the horn icy blast, you can crit him safely to death :D).

    b)You can use it as a disengaging or assaulting skills, prioritizing targets and swapping between them while carrying monsters around you, also damaging them as you go through, so they eventually will die.

    c)As long as you cross the amount of number of monsters that are related to the tier of your skill, you will heal for absurdly huge amounts of life (since you stack VIT and skill goes by % of your health), as an example at Tier one you are able to hit up to 3 monsters for 7% of your life, so effective healing is 21% of your life. As long as you have mana, your are never going to die, ever, also if you use it correctly.

    d)Invulnerability frame, that's just a theory but I have seen that while you jump, the initial frames makes you invulnerable (being able to avoid certain skills damage if you time them properly) but this is just theory, might also have been that I blocked them or just neglected damage while healing.

    Beside talking about the core skill, your other main gameplay style focus are to be able to:

    a)Charge your bar fast enough so you don't depend to much from shadow burst (to do so either hit hard enough, crit or use "battle standard"), and are able to heal through crits only with a fast weapon (.48 or below) and also are able to get the most out of this build. Also as implicit before, you have to play with claws for the weapon property of ignoring half the armor and have a fast hitting weapon to stack "shred armor" and keep up the "blood hunger" healing when in rage mode.

    b)Get damage amplifying skills like "Howl", "Raze" and "Battle rage", also armor debuffing if you want it

    c)Get battle standard really fast since it has best synergy with this builds, giving you mana and charge, which will make you in theory, insanely overpower.

    Also I get "Red wolf" For some AoE damage in groups since "Shadow burst" doesn't deals that much, but you could also do with "Lightning Claws"

    Most annoying things for this build are:
    a) Being frozen which will make you hit really slow and also jumping around harder, but you will learn how to live with that and succeed or you will die trying XD.

    b) Getting your mana drained or depleted (like the blue biting sons of... that once they get their teeth on you they will burn your mana) since without your mana you could die if you aren't in a safe combating area, as for example being jumping between large groups of monsters as I was doing some minutes ago at the end of Act I.

    c)Being one shotted... Yeah it happens even to the best, don't think much about it, just trust your shadow burst, time properly your jumps and jump often between basic attacks to flank monsters and moving them around while you charge your rage. Then explode them :D.

    An example of this build can be found here: [LINK DELETED]

    I'm still testing it, starting Act II soon since I killed regent (rather easily I have to say) just a moment ago. But I'm rather happy to have been able to design a (up until now) working melee berserker build for **** elite mode. Works rather fine alone but I encourage you to try to play with a friendly ember since you will have great synergy with them (since you increases damage with howl, ember will blast through anything and will help you take down casters and other problematic things while you tank or jump through groups of monsters/champs). But any ranged char would do.

    Also remember the golden rules: ~never run out of mp! ~know/learn how to when and where to fight and ~have fun :D. Another rule is that you avoid more than 4 man parties if you don't want to have hard time, best play below that party size.

    Hope it brings you some light on the matter and helps you create a better meleeing berserker, since they are just awesome and friendly to play (like engi).

    Edit: Forgot to say that I haven't farmed anything. Killed Grell alone at level 14 and also killed regent at level 24 alone, played most of the game alone since I wanted to test the build without taking other factors into account, always keeping in mind that for party games you will have to sacrifice some STR/DEX in order to get more VIT and be tankier but since party members will be helping clearing monsters groups, strategy and viability should remain the same.
  • vibrantvibrant Posts: 139
    This is my build from memory - [LINK DELETED]

    The way I use it:
    1. Keep howl up at all times (slower enemies, but more importantly it reduces their attack/cast speed and damage taken).
    2. Also keep Battle Rage up at all times (reduced damage taken, plus bonus damage dealt)
    3. Frost Breath when you can (increases damage taken, helps keep a small group of enemies still) and I keep it at level 5 to keep the mana cost low (so I can spam it to freeze enemies)
    4. Storm Claw when you can if you're playing solo (helps you deal more damage)
    5. Shadow Burst only at level 5 to keep a low mana cost, so you can spam it repeatedly to heal a small amount of damage (so you don't drain your pots so fast).
    6. Battle Standard whenever you're picking off more than 1 simply mob (the dodge and charge bonuses are invaluable, knockback resistance is great for bosses.)
    7. Raze is a fabulous skill for melting high-HP and high-armour mobs (you'll need to chug a lot of mana potions, or abuse the infinite mana bug on Battle Standard (I hate doing it, but I /need/ battle standard and can't avoid the bug).

    It was initially specced merely to stay alive, but now that I seem to survive quite consistently, I pumped my recent skill points into Raze which allows me to play solo more effectively.

    My future skill points will go into Battle Standard, Battle Rage, and probably Frenzy Mastery (I'd love to try Shadowbind, but a 10s spell is a little too much to micro-manage).

    Do note that as much armour as I can get has +hp, and if it doesn't have that, +all resistances. I socket for potion effectiveness, +mana regen, and lastly +resistance appropriate for whichever zone I'm in.

    And in act 3, be real careful. The difficulty is a HUGE step up from act 2 (the little mushrooms that explode can drain your health in a heartbeat, and the monsters that die and the whispy blue things fly out of them will also drain your health if you don't run away far enough that they can't reach you)
  • herionzherionz Posts: 127
    vibrant wrote:
    This is my build from memory - [LINK DELETED]

    The way I use it:
    1. Keep howl up at all times (slower enemies, but more importantly it reduces their attack/cast speed and damage taken).
    2. Also keep Battle Rage up at all times (reduced damage taken, plus bonus damage dealt)
    3. Frost Breath when you can (increases damage taken, helps keep a small group of enemies still) and I keep it at level 5 to keep the mana cost low (so I can spam it to freeze enemies)
    4. Storm Claw when you can if you're playing solo (helps you deal more damage)
    5. Shadow Burst only at level 5 to keep a low mana cost, so you can spam it repeatedly to heal a small amount of damage (so you don't drain your pots so fast).
    6. Battle Standard whenever you're picking off more than 1 simply mob (the dodge and charge bonuses are invaluable, knockback resistance is great for bosses.)
    7. Raze is a fabulous skill for melting high-HP and high-armour mobs (you'll need to chug a lot of mana potions, or abuse the infinite mana bug on Battle Standard (I hate doing it, but I /need/ battle standard and can't avoid the bug).

    It was initially specced merely to stay alive, but now that I seem to survive quite consistently, I pumped my recent skill points into Raze which allows me to play solo more effectively.

    My future skill points will go into Battle Standard, Battle Rage, and probably Frenzy Mastery (I'd love to try Shadowbind, but a 10s spell is a little too much to micro-manage).

    Do note that as much armour as I can get has +hp, and if it doesn't have that, +all resistances. I socket for potion effectiveness, +mana regen, and lastly +resistance appropriate for whichever zone I'm in.

    And in act 3, be real careful. The difficulty is a HUGE step up from act 2 (the little mushrooms that explode can drain your health in a heartbeat, and the monsters that die and the whispy blue things fly out of them will also drain your health if you don't run away far enough that they can't reach you)

    I really like the build you have in there mate, and I thought you were quite right with the 5 points in "Shadow Burst" to be mana wise, but in the calculator you can see that between rank 5 and rank 15 there's only a 3 point increase, and you can solve that problem by socketing mana leech in the claw, since you hit so fast you won't run out of mana (also banner helps I think), but maybe the calculator is broken since I can't see the other bonuses from "Ice breath" XD, also I don't get a couple of things:

    I'm seeing in the calculator that chance of happening doesn't vary but does leveling "Lighting claws" increase the buff time duration?

    Why don't you put points in "frenzy mastery"? Think it should be a must have.

    Did you try "Iceshield"? I think it looks awesome to take a point there since most troubles for us can come from projectile based attacks, from magical monster types or other sources, if not I can always change it yo executioner passive to get a chance of 25% extra things when killing something, can come in handy.

    Modified version of the build: [LINK DELETED] Let me know your thoughts :D .
  • vibrantvibrant Posts: 139
    herionz wrote:
    I really like the build you have in there mate, and I thought you were quite right with the 5 points in "Shadow Burst" to be mana wise, but in the calculator you can see that between rank 5 and rank 15 there's only a 3 point increase, and you can solve that problem by socketing mana leech in the claw, since you hit so fast you won't run out of mana (also banner helps I think), but maybe the calculator is broken since I can't see the other bonuses from "Ice breath" XD, also I don't get a couple of things:

    I'm seeing in the calculator that chance of happening doesn't vary but does leveling "Lighting claws" increase the buff time duration?

    Why don't you put points in "frenzy mastery"? Think it should be a must have.

    Did you try "Iceshield"? I think it looks awesome to take a point there since most troubles for us can come from projectile based attacks, from magical monster types or other sources, if not I can always change it yo executioner passive to get a chance of 25% extra things when killing something, can come in handy.

    Modified version of the build: [LINK DELETED] Let me know your thoughts :D .
    Heya herionz, and cheers. :) As with everything, it generally comes down to how you play and personal preference.
    • Re: Shadow Burst, the calculator is broken as far as mana costs go - level 5 Shadow Burst costs me 12 mana per use, level 10 costs me 22 mana. For me, at least, the small benefits don't justify the 83% increase in mana cost. I would personally rather cast it several times in a row to heal up, especially since there's not usually random 5 monsters hanging around that I can run through to maximally utilize the level 15 version. Plus, while you're zipping around you can't be hit - effectively having a lower mana cost adds invulnerability time.
    • Re: Stormclaw, the buff does not increase with extra skill points... though I've found 40 seconds is fine for my play style (you can re-cast it after 20 seconds, so I generally hit it once before entering a fight, and maybe once or twice during the fight too)
    • Re: Frenzy Mastery, I'll put points in it soon, once I've exhausted all the other situationally-useful skills (e.g. Stormclaw = helps get rid of groups of low-level monsters, etc). Also, in multiplayer games, I tend to play support - charge can build veeeeery slowly, which makes Frenzy Mastery less practical for me.
    • I haven't tried Iceshield at all. Do let me know if you find it any good - it was the 10 second cooldown that turned me off to it (I have enough trouble juggling fights already!). Also, I personally haven't had much of a problem with ranged attacks - once I jump into a fight, start popping health pots and Shadow Burst around everywhere, the ranged attacks just get soaked up with all the other blows. It's possible that Iceshield could /really help/ building charge, though! EDIT: I think I misunderstood what this skill does, and am investigating it now. Cheers for pointing it out!
    • Rampage (I think you mean this, instead of Executioner?) would be awesome, but all of my play is multiplayer (I just find soloing not as much fun). One of the downsides of multiplay, is it reduces the chance of me landing killing blows by a lot... making on-kill skills less viable for me.
    • Instead of Rampage, one of my four spells is Adrenaline Rush, which gives you a ~15% chance to buff movement and attack speed when you're hit. I get hit a lot, so I've found this to be fantastic!
    • Healing seems to be a very personal choice. For myself, I've found that a combination of high-level potions, +potion effectiveness gems & tomes (Adventuring IV tome with its +32% pot effectiveness, **** bless you!) and level 5 Shadow Burst offer all the healing I need to quickly heal any damage I take, and to maintain max health at all possible times.
  • herionzherionz Posts: 127
    vibrant wrote:
    Heya herionz, and cheers. :) As with everything, it generally comes down to how you play and personal preference.

    True :D.
    • Re: Shadow Burst, the calculator is broken as far as mana costs go - level 5 Shadow Burst costs me 12 mana per use, level 10 costs me 22 mana. For me, at least, the small benefits don't justify the 83% increase in mana cost. I would personally rather cast it several times in a row to heal up, especially since there's not usually random 5 monsters hanging around that I can run through to maximally utilize the level 15 version. Plus, while you're zipping around you can't be hit - effectively having a lower mana cost adds invulnerability time.

    Okay then, I'll consider to leave it at 6 in the time being and will see if I reach second tier in late game or not, depending on how I see my mp consumption goes. It's best as you said, being able to do 2 jumps rather than just one for the invulnerability frames.
    vibrant wrote:
    [/*]
    [*]Re: Stormclaw, the buff does not increase with extra skill points... though I've found 40 seconds is fine for my play style (you can re-cast it after 20 seconds, so I generally hit it once before entering a fight, and maybe once or twice during the fight too)

    Then as I thought maybe with just one point for trash group killing or only reaching tier 1 shouldn't be enough?. Don't see that the extra 20% from weaponDPS is going to do a great difference when cleaning them.
    vibrant wrote:
    [/*]
    [*]Re: Frenzy Mastery, I'll put points in it soon, once I've exhausted all the other situationally-useful skills (e.g. Stormclaw = helps get rid of groups of low-level monsters, etc). Also, in multiplayer games, I tend to play support - charge can build veeeeery slowly, which makes Frenzy Mastery less practical for me.

    Yeah I'm aware that in party playing it gets harder to fill your bar, mostly because monsters can take more damage so your do less, then your bar fills slower, and since only direct damage works. But to compensate that I thought with "shred armor" and some debuffing for increased damage you could still be able to, until you reach battle standard, but maybe I'm wrong. Happens something similar with embermages, but with "Blazing pillar" and the charge passive you build it fast enough even in groups of 4.
    vibrant wrote:
    [/*]
    [*]I haven't tried Iceshield at all. Do let me know if you find it any good - it was the 10 second cooldown that turned me off to it (I have enough trouble juggling fights already!). Also, I personally haven't had much of a problem with ranged attacks - once I jump into a fight, start popping health pots and Shadow Burst around everywhere, the ranged attacks just get soaked up with all the other blows. It's possible that Iceshield could /really help/ building charge, though! EDIT: I think I misunderstood what this skill does, and am investigating it now. Cheers for pointing it out![/*]
    [*]Rampage (I think you mean this, instead of Executioner?) would be awesome, but all of my play is multiplayer (I just find soloing not as much fun). One of the downsides of multiplay, is it reduces the chance of me landing killing blows by a lot... making on-kill skills less viable for me.[/*]
    [*]Instead of Rampage, one of my four spells is Adrenaline Rush, which gives you a ~15% chance to buff movement and attack speed when you're hit. I get hit a lot, so I've found this to be fantastic![/*]
    [*]Healing seems to be a very personal choice. For myself, I've found that a combination of high-level potions, +potion effectiveness gems & tomes (Adventuring IV tome with its +32% pot effectiveness, **** bless you!) and level 5 Shadow Burst offer all the healing I need to quickly heal any damage I take, and to maintain max health at all possible times.[/*]

    Yeah it was rampage, too close to each other, sorry :lol:. I'm doubting about that one since in party playing dealing the killing blow it's not easy but for going solo can be handy. "Iceshield" the cooldown seems low but matches frenzy duration (in you put some points in frenzy, it is) so you can pop it before for bar filling while being safer from ranged projectiles and magic spells, and also get charge from them while giving back some damage, but also can be useful to feel safer in a boss fight while in rage mode, to don't have to move that much while hitting for avoiding some spells. But it's still just a thought, haven't test it yet. Edit: Iceshield will reflect back any incoming damage that has a missile property, so if a boss launches a fireball that hits for 1000 damage, you just ignore all the damage while bouncing it back to him for 500 damage (at least I think it will reflect 50% damage but in the skill it's not specified). Still you ignore the damage so it's free hits for some encounters. It can help you out to build up charge faster also :) so I see it pretty useful.

    About healing, yeah it looks like a great idea, but I want to stack some gems for HP or all damage reduction (at least 25% more than what you start with, should really make a difference). Still will be looking forward to find that Adventurer spell, I found once the rank I with a engi, before creating the berserker hehe.
  • BmanBman Posts: 5
    Herionz,

    Thanks for pointing out Ice Shield. I completely ignored it at first but the more I think about it, it tends to be the ranged monsters that pose the most threat to me. Going to implement it into my build now.
  • vibrantvibrant Posts: 139
    For everyone else's benefit, here's what PyrosEien in the Berserker forums has to say about Iceshield:
    PyrosEien wrote:
    There's a bunch of projectiles reflect stuff including items but anyway, here's what I noticed using it extensively. First, for 1point, it gives 55% reflect, which is generally enough. It will reflect almost everything that's not a melee attack. That includes a lot of spells that do spikes on the ground, some of the fire on the ground and a lot of weird stuff(was getting popups with nothing visually hitting me but eh). For most of these though it won't actually reflect properly, but it will prevent the dmg. For more standard projectiles, it will reflect them back to the attacker, which sometimes hit them sometimes not(slow projectiles and stuff tend to miss). When it does hit though it generally does quite a lot of dmg, so that's a plus.

    On top of that, any attack you take, including reflected one I'm pretty sure, can generate a small amount of Charge. Forgot what's the % on that but it's fairly small, still it's a plus, it means you're still generating charge even when not using a charge generating attack, like if you're spamming wolfpack or raze.

    The main downside is it has a pretty expensive mana cost as well as a fairly short duration(10ish seconds iirc). That means keeping it up is mana intensive, but that is fixed as soon as you can get battle standard with the mana regen, at least until it's inevitably nerfed. With standard however you can keep it up permanently during fights, and you'll see A LOT of Reflected popups with it on.

    To me it's a must in elite since a lot of the stronger mobs have powerful ranged attacks, and even normal ranged mobs tend to hurt badly and unlike melee mobs, they're not as easy to avoid. With Iceshield on, you can more or less ignore them. I'd probably look into putting more points into it for NG+ elite but for the first playthrough at least, a single point was enough, and it was very very useful.
  • herionzherionz Posts: 127
    Bman wrote:
    Herionz,

    Thanks for pointing out Ice Shield. I completely ignored it at first but the more I think about it, it tends to be the ranged monsters that pose the most threat to me. Going to implement it into my build now.

    Hehe, no problem. Yeah ranged monsters/casters are always the problem since they force you to move around while avoiding their damage and switching to them, which is a pain in some situations and you can lose time when in rage mode, at least with Iceshield you get another tool to have smoother battle flow :D and also works for building up charge so, it's great for multiplayer purposes (where you build charge slower but since monsters scale and they appear more of them -> more ranged attacks -> better chances for building up charge fast).
    vibrant wrote:
    For everyone else's benefit, here's what PyrosEien in the Berserker forums has to say about Iceshield:
    PyrosEien wrote:
    There's a bunch of projectiles reflect stuff including items but anyway, here's what I noticed using it extensively. First, for 1point, it gives 55% reflect, which is generally enough. It will reflect almost everything that's not a melee attack. That includes a lot of spells that do spikes on the ground, some of the fire on the ground and a lot of weird stuff(was getting popups with nothing visually hitting me but eh). For most of these though it won't actually reflect properly, but it will prevent the dmg. For more standard projectiles, it will reflect them back to the attacker, which sometimes hit them sometimes not(slow projectiles and stuff tend to miss). When it does hit though it generally does quite a lot of dmg, so that's a plus.

    On top of that, any attack you take, including reflected one I'm pretty sure, can generate a small amount of Charge. Forgot what's the % on that but it's fairly small, still it's a plus, it means you're still generating charge even when not using a charge generating attack, like if you're spamming wolfpack or raze.

    The main downside is it has a pretty expensive mana cost as well as a fairly short duration(10ish seconds iirc). That means keeping it up is mana intensive, but that is fixed as soon as you can get battle standard with the mana regen, at least until it's inevitably nerfed. With standard however you can keep it up permanently during fights, and you'll see A LOT of Reflected popups with it on.

    To me it's a must in elite since a lot of the stronger mobs have powerful ranged attacks, and even normal ranged mobs tend to hurt badly and unlike melee mobs, they're not as easy to avoid. With Iceshield on, you can more or less ignore them. I'd probably look into putting more points into it for NG+ elite but for the first playthrough at least, a single point was enough, and it was very very useful.

    Exactly the same as I thought :D nice to see I was right then.
  • vibrant wrote:
    Edit: Iceshield will reflect back any incoming damage that has a missile property, so if a boss launches a fireball that hits for 1000 damage, you just ignore all the damage while bouncing it back to him for 500 damage (at least I think it will reflect 50% damage but in the skill it's not specified). Still you ignore the damage so it's free hits for some encounters. It can help you out to build up charge faster also :) so I see it pretty useful.

    Sorry, I'm still pretty new... is this how the item property works, too? (Please pardon the threadjack)

    I wear an item with 25 Physical Damage Reflected, which of the following scenarios is accurate?
    a) Damage Reduction

    Monster attacks for 100 physical damage.
    25 Physical Damage Reflected mod kicks in.
    Player receives 75 physical damage.
    Monster receives 25 physical damage from Physical Damage Reflected modifier.

    b) No Damage Reduction

    Monster attacks for 100 physical damage.
    Player receives 100 physical damage.
    25 Physical Damage Reflected mod kicks in.
    Monster receives 25 physical damage from Physical Damage Reflected modifier.
  • herionzherionz Posts: 127
    Shinrabe wrote:
    vibrant wrote:
    Edit: Iceshield will reflect back any incoming damage that has a missile property, so if a boss launches a fireball that hits for 1000 damage, you just ignore all the damage while bouncing it back to him for 500 damage (at least I think it will reflect 50% damage but in the skill it's not specified). Still you ignore the damage so it's free hits for some encounters. It can help you out to build up charge faster also :) so I see it pretty useful.

    Sorry, I'm still pretty new... is this how the item property works, too? (Please pardon the threadjack)

    I wear an item with 25 Physical Damage Reflected, which of the following scenarios is accurate?
    a) Damage Reduction

    Monster attacks for 100 physical damage.
    25 Physical Damage Reflected mod kicks in.
    Player receives 75 physical damage.
    Monster receives 25 physical damage from Physical Damage Reflected modifier.

    b) No Damage Reduction

    Monster attacks for 100 physical damage.
    Player receives 100 physical damage.
    25 Physical Damage Reflected mod kicks in.
    Monster receives 25 physical damage from Physical Damage Reflected modifier.

    Can't prove it nor test it but I'm thinking it would go like this (in theory).

    a) Damage Reduction

    Monster attacks for 100 physical damage.
    25 Physical Damage Reflected mod kicks in.
    Player receives [(100-25)-"flat phy armour"]*[100% - "%Damage reduction(phy)"] physical damage. (In theory, applying defences after reflecting damage, if it was otherwise, then reflecting would be less important than other protections like armour or -%DR)
    Monster receives (25 - "flat phy armour (monster)" modified by armour range) physical damage from Physical Damage Reflected modifier. (Not sure about this one, maybe the damage reflected is always constant and not modified by armour, then it would be always the hole value)

    Problem with this is that projectile reflection is either you reflect the projectile or not (so neglecting or not all the damage), then the damage reflected back depends on the amount of % the tooltip describes (usually is a %chance of reflection at 50% damage, which means: you take no damage, but monsters hit by reflected projectile only take half the damage the initial missile was going to hit for, and should be calculated before taking into account your defences). But with flat damage reflection, I can't really tell if it comes after or before your mitigation, and if the damage reflected back takes into account monster mitigation. Just a matter of someone test it someday.
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