Potential Elite Tank Build - 1H/Shield

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  • Blah. This build is slowly making me want to /wrist myself as I very very marginally make progress towards being able to kill things. Oi.

    I keep telling myself it'll all be worth it at 42 but that seems extremely far away. Strongly debating reworking some of the focus/vit into strength STRICTLY for early game, if only to reduce the mental fatigue, and be less optimal later on.

    I'm building this build slightly differently.

    First of all, I am giving myself about 60 raw strength so that I can wear good shields and weapons. I don't know how Emberquake interacts with Strength, but I know that a lot of "weapon DPS" skills are improved by strength. If that holds for Emberquake, then there's likely an optimal amount of strength for highest DPS Emberquakes which is > 15.

    Second, I have 1 point in flame hammer. I keep using the skill reset person to forget flame hammer and then level up my other skills, then put one point in flame hammer "on top" of those skills, so I can keep forgetting it. I'm calling this "floating" the skill. 1 point in flame hammer makes a huge difference for me in elite act 2. I would not want to be doing this with Seismic Slam only.

    Finally, re: the OP's build, I think Sledge Bot and Charge Reconstitution are sketchy. I'm going to be pumping up Bulwark and Onslaught instead. And I might do some points in Supercharge as well.
  • RyuukiRyuuki Posts: 277
    Blah. This build is slowly making me want to /wrist myself as I very very marginally make progress towards being able to kill things. Oi.

    I keep telling myself it'll all be worth it at 42 but that seems extremely far away. Strongly debating reworking some of the focus/vit into strength STRICTLY for early game, if only to reduce the mental fatigue, and be less optimal later on.

    I'm building this build slightly differently.

    First of all, I am giving myself about 60 raw strength so that I can wear good shields and weapons. I don't know how Emberquake interacts with Strength, but I know that a lot of "weapon DPS" skills are improved by strength. If that holds for Emberquake, then there's likely an optimal amount of strength for highest DPS Emberquakes which is > 15.

    Second, I have 1 point in flame hammer. I keep using the skill reset person to forget flame hammer and then level up my other skills, then put one point in flame hammer "on top" of those skills, so I can keep forgetting it. I'm calling this "floating" the skill. 1 point in flame hammer makes a huge difference for me in elite act 2. I would not want to be doing this with Seismic Slam only.

    Finally, re: the OP's build, I think Sledge Bot and Charge Reconstitution are sketchy. I'm going to be pumping up Bulwark and Onslaught instead. And I might do some points in Supercharge as well.

    Hmm...

    60 Raw Strength is quite a bit, and I reckon you won't need strength at all with OP's build since he's building it with Focus as the primary focus. There's some pretty amazing Focus/Vit items that a tank can use out there. Not necessary.

    Flame hammer is a good idea. Like what Reaper did. It actually sounds pretty decent, especially if you can't do seismic slam like a boss XD

    Don't go Supercharge if you're going on Focus heavy build. It's extremely redundant, especially so because since he has already made a focus heavy build, a shield + wand seems viable as heck to me right now. Sledge Bot is good for damage and some sort of distraction as a meat tank, and Charge Reconstitution can save your ****, albeit not as much since you won't be using charge skills cept for FF. It IS a little sketchy though; that I won't deny.
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  • Been using this build on my first Elite toon - and it's working out fairly nicely.

    Any thoughts in general which Spells would work nicely with this build? (Or in general) for both me and the pet?

    I've only found a few so far - summon zombies and self heal. Would be awesome to hear what people are using with success.
  • RyuukiRyuuki Posts: 277
    ZemiChrono wrote:
    Been using this build on my first Elite toon - and it's working out fairly nicely.

    Any thoughts in general which Spells would work nicely with this build? (Or in general) for both me and the pet?

    I've only found a few so far - summon zombies and self heal. Would be awesome to hear what people are using with success.

    Off the top of my head(It's full of random wisdom)...

    Arcane mastery(If you're going for wands. Reduced rings/amulet requirement is a boon too)
    Shield mastery(Yes, that's something you definitely need)
    Full heal Self/All(Self for yourself, all for pet)
    Armor Expertise(Not sure about this one though; feels like Adventurer would be a better choice but meh)
    Torchlight 2 Characters!

    Tenkatsu(Physical Tankgineer)

    Shotgonner(Shotgonne user)
    UsainBolt(PB Build)
  • Sorry for taking so long to get back. Yeah, I'm definitely going to update the build with Copter and not Sledgebot.

    I also did some Flame Hammer reswapping myself, but then my best weapon I found was a claw. Reaper, you're probably having a better time than I because my gear is the worst, absolutely worst, lol. I also have to run away like a little girl cause I'm on HC and I don't want to have to restart cause then it would take me even longer to report back for you guys. Glad other people are enjoying the build.

    To whoever had mentioned str assisting Emberquake, this is true, but it does not scale as well as focus (even excluding stat point allocation) based on the Tier bonuses scaling as fire damage. Once you factor in the heavy focus, the str is a non issue. Though for the early going if you wanted to Flame Hammer rotate just to speed things up, maybe throw 30 or 35 into strength. I wouldn't go 60. Just don't forget to swap back out of the hammer.

    Edit: Ryuuki I'm going for a wand next time I log in. You win. Do you mind I'm also adding your spell suggestions to the post, with credit ofc.
  • RyuukiRyuuki Posts: 277
    Sorry for taking so long to get back. Yeah, I'm definitely going to update the build with Copter and not Sledgebot.

    I also did some Flame Hammer reswapping myself, but then my best weapon I found was a claw. Reaper, you're probably having a better time than I because my gear is the worst, absolutely worst, lol. I also have to run away like a little girl cause I'm on HC and I don't want to have to restart cause then it would take me even longer to report back for you guys. Glad other people are enjoying the build.

    To whoever had mentioned str assisting Emberquake, this is true, but it does not scale as well as focus (even excluding stat point allocation) based on the Tier bonuses scaling as fire damage. Once you factor in the heavy focus, the str is a non issue. Though for the early going if you wanted to Flame Hammer rotate just to speed things up, maybe throw 30 or 35 into strength. I wouldn't go 60. Just don't forget to swap back out of the hammer.

    Edit: Ryuuki I'm going for a wand next time I log in. You win. Do you mind I'm also adding your spell suggestions to the post, with credit ofc.

    Here's hoping that you have better luck in your item acquisition haha!

    I don't mind! Go ahead :)
    Torchlight 2 Characters!

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  • I'm sure it helps that I'm not **** since I'm more fearless and I actually had a friend in game for a while but he'd go afk all the time and so I was actually on Super Elite! I wasn't doing any side things either, I'm only lvl 23 at the Djini stuff and fighting things sometimes 4+ levels higher than me solo. My friend is puzzled too how I haven't been dying much, but I think my playstyle would crack you guys up. I'm used to playing Outlander so I'm used to doing lots of jukes since I can't take more than two hits so I play Engineer basically the same way except that when I move it is just slightly to the side of the boss so I can still hit with seismic. It is because that alone that I think Bulwark is useless for me. I'm not sure it is really items because I NEVER autoattack. My pet is a warbeast but I don't know how much that helps. I sadly haven't been able to play the character in a bit since I'm caught up to some other friends which is why I went engineer and they haven't been playing so I'm stuck waiting, boo!! I might just play anyway! I'm also thinking about placing less in vitality and more in focus. Perhaps a 4:1 or something like that. Maybe a 7:3

    I found this guys explanation of skills interesting. Obviously it is a different build but some of the concepts carry over.
    viewtopic.php?f=45&t=36668

    Take care :D
    -mike
    EDIT - I'm not sure Emberhammer is needed either since firedamage circumvents the shields. A key thing I've been doing is maxing Fire and Spark as much as possible. I'm using that to buff my damage instead of more levels in seismic.
    Creator of Platinum Arts Sandbox Free 3D Game Maker
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    **** Elite
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  • For myself personally I'm thinking:
    5 siesmic
    15 emberquake
    15 healbot
    15 gunbot
    15 copter
    15 sledgebot
    15 fire and spark
    15 forcefield
    110 skill points - 22 left over.

    Rest:
    Going to try 1 in storm burst for escapes
    1-15 in charge ****
    Not sure what else

    I'm not really interested in dynamo field because of the low DPS when I can be using more seismics.
    Creator of Platinum Arts Sandbox Free 3D Game Maker
    http://SandboxGameMaker.com

    Build Lists For Elite I maintain
    **** Elite
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  • RyuukiRyuuki Posts: 277
    You can't Onslaught with a wand.

    Oh cripes, really?! Dayum didn't expect that...

    @Reaper: Dynamo's usage was more for charging your Charge bar, I believe :o
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  • I know it is for charging the charge bar but with charge **** I can charge the bar and still keep spamming my higher damage spell. I hardly ever use forcefield so I'm not sure I'll even bother with charge, maybe though :D

    Dudewithpants thanks for helping to inspire this build I'm going to play with :)
    viewtopic.php?f=45&t=40048
    Creator of Platinum Arts Sandbox Free 3D Game Maker
    http://SandboxGameMaker.com

    Build Lists For Elite I maintain
    **** Elite
    Engineer
    Embermage
    Outlander
  • I think going for full points in charge **** could definitely free up some points or add some DPS, especially pre-emberquake. Though, you'd really have to keep up a good pace and fight large enough groups to ensure your bar is filling up, right? At 15/15 I think it's only a 10% per enemy.

    Glad I inspired more builds though. I can't wait for like two months from now when we've just got a giant thread in each class subforum listing to 40 or 50 builds for every possible flavor.
  • I think going for full points in charge **** could definitely free up some points or add some DPS, especially pre-emberquake. Though, you'd really have to keep up a good pace and fight large enough groups to ensure your bar is filling up, right? At 15/15 I think it's only a 10% per enemy.

    Glad I inspired more builds though. I can't wait for like two months from now when we've just got a giant thread in each class subforum listing to 40 or 50 builds for every possible flavor.

    I sort of came to the same conclusion about Tankgineer builds (two options: physical or elemental) and started building my elemental engineer independently. IMHO it's an obvious build to make once you learn that Shield Bash kind of ****. But this thread is a nice summary & has attracted the best tech in elemental tankgineering, so thanks for making it :D .
  • EkitaiEkitai Posts: 40
    Hi there.
    Trying your build with a friend at the moment. Its quite nice, but it seems that my friend has to carrry me until I reach lvl 42 =).
    Anyways, I was thinking about going with supercharge, but only because I think it might apply to emberquake since it's based on weapon dps. At least with the outlander, the passives like poison burst or shadowling ammo work with weapon dps based skills. Does anyone know if thats the case with engi as well?
  • As far as I personally am aware, and feel free anyone to jump in, it strictly works off of actual melee attacks. Now, if you gain the attack bonus WHILE supercharged doing other things, I don't know, but I'm relatively certain you couldn't utilize the passive itself while not physically attacking.

    Beast, I'm also super excited about the commentary that's been floating around. And I like the variations people have been utilizing, too. Onslaught vs Reconstitution. People trying out Tremor in addition to or instead of Seismic. Low level hammer swapping, etc. You guys may have to let me know how things go as you level up higher, though. I'm taking a little break to try and farm some decent gear on my Embermage so I can kill things a tad quicker.
  • mtwlundmtwlund Posts: 65
    I think going for full points in charge **** could definitely free up some points or add some DPS, especially pre-emberquake. Though, you'd really have to keep up a good pace and fight large enough groups to ensure your bar is filling up, right? At 15/15 I think it's only a 10% per enemy.

    Glad I inspired more builds though. I can't wait for like two months from now when we've just got a giant thread in each class subforum listing to 40 or 50 builds for every possible flavor.

    I sort of came to the same conclusion about Tankgineer builds (two options: physical or elemental) and started building my elemental engineer independently. IMHO it's an obvious build to make once you learn that Shield Bash kind of ****. But this thread is a nice summary & has attracted the best tech in elemental tankgineering, so thanks for making it :D .

    Hi!

    Well that was evil of you, shield bash is not optimal i can agree on that.

    But it is a physical damage spell that increase in damage with Focus so if your a elemental type that wont use melee physical attacks (or if your wanding) you can use Shield Bash as a "Physical" spell that deals a moderate amount of damage, increase charge and has a good chance to stun, so its a useable skill but not optimal.

    A little weak in Elite mode i agree but still a useable spell especialy with a Focus oriented build and you can skip Sword and Board and instead use Shield Bash if your going for Emberquake/Flame Bash later on.

    Add in the debuff from Tremor (increased damage) it can deal a little more then moderate.
    If you want to use the skill (spell) that is.
  • I've only played Veteran difficulty since I like a decent challenge but nothing too rough. Been playing this build although I went roflcopter over sledge bot (I noticed OP plans to change this as well). The killing speed really is painful at low levels even on lower difficulty. Still though, the only time I ever run into potential deaths is getting too happy Onslaught'ing around and forget to put up a FF in the midst of a bunch of mobs. That's actually something I'm looking forward to with mods. A more informative buff bar or at least a way to see the numerical value of FF since mousing over it in combat isn't ideal.

    Thinking about remaking one in Elite now that I have a better feel for how to build an Elemental based tank Eng.
  • SanWarSanWar Posts: 21
    Because conditions change with gear, I made a solid base of ~110 for Str, Vit, and Focus, and ~60 for Dex on my level 72, mostly to satisfy equipment requirements, since equipment make up more for DPS than a few stat points. I mostly use +Vit equips and +Str/Dex/Focus depending on if I get especially good gear. My vit is now around an effective 270.


    My preferred skill allocation is similar to the OP, except for a few key differences:

    I would set immobilization copter and charge reconstitution to low unless needed.

    I didn't really see much difference in the copter from 1 to 10, maybe it gets much better by 15? On elite mode, once your shield goes down, you're only going to last a few seconds before you're dead against the tougher mobs. You'll already be healing fine without it that high. I really only needed the copter to help hinder champions or more.

    I would maximize bulwark. The armor difference would allow you to more easily wear more offensive armors, too, and helps buff force field.

    I would put 1 point into:
    Sword & Board
    Charge ****
    Coup de Grace
    MAYBE 1 in supercharge, but it doesn't really seem too useful as of yet from my experience.

    -max or set to 9 fire bash (tier 2 is bugged to not really work when using a charge)
    -At least 1 point into tremor. The additional tiers sound tempting, but 1 is more than enough. Helps halt those faraway archers/gunners

    Leftover points put into Tremor, Onslaught, Immobilization copter, maybe Coup de Grace if you feel like it.
    Layering debuffs and DoTs will be essential for damage, as well as slow down attacks against you when you are at the center of a dangerous group.

    The problem I had with a pure tank without plentiful AoEs and debuffs is that the enemy would get many hits on my forcefield. Bulwark helps keep defense as high as possible and allow more interesting armors without getting into the dangerously low region.

    The key to my strategy with my build is to have a very powerful forcefield, but in addition to that, keep mobs away from touching it as much as possible. This way, the shield lasts the full 30 seconds each time. The better the defense, the more you can use skills without worry.
  • RyuukiRyuuki Posts: 277
    About Supercharge...

    It's strictly a physical, auto-attack Engineer build. Nothing else. If you're rolling with physical damage via auto attack, get it maxed. Else, leave it.
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    Tenkatsu(Physical Tankgineer)

    Shotgonner(Shotgonne user)
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  • I'm running something similar, although only at L14 atm. Build plan is as follows:

    Heal Bot- 15/15
    Seismic Slam- 15/15
    Ember Hammer- 1/15 (thought about skipping this, but I'll be able to afford a swipe at the start of each fight and I hate seeing "BLOCKED" with Seismic)
    Bulwark- 15/15
    Force Field- 15/15
    Emberquake- 15/15
    Dynamo Field- not sure here; might stick with 1 point since it will build charge anyway, but it's worth maxing for this spec
    Fire & Spark- 15/15
    Immobilization Copter- 15/15
    Charge Reconstitution- all remaining points (won't be maxed)

    I might throw a point into Onslaught as well, as there are a number of ranged critters (incl some minor bosses) that spam high-order Slow effects from Act 2 onward and I can use it to close the gap. If I end up not maxing DF I may add another bot, although it may not be able to provide enough damage to be worth it compared to what EQ will be outputting.

    I've been using the 3:2 attribute point scheme, although once I hit about 100 or so base Vit I may swap to 4:1 as I'm not on Elite (still testing to see how I want to roll when I move up, probably something similar to this) so don't need as big a cushion. I'm also using a wand for now, but will be switching later as Onslaught and Emberquake require a melee weapon.
  • V0ltaV0lta Posts: 5
    Hi guys,

    first I want to thank you for the great build, I decided to roll a Tank-Engineer like this myself.

    While looking through my Shared Stash while doing the first quests I found this: [LINK DELETED]

    This is an Item that (I believe) drops every time you kill Grom the Murderer in Act III as part of the Quest given by Cacklespit. And this is easily the best item for a young tanking Engineer by a lot of reasons.

    1) You can equip it before Level 15 if you spend your skillpoints on Focus (what you would do anyway)
    2) +15% Firedamage
    3) Half its damage is elemental
    4) A LOT of damage

    With the help of this blade the hard early levels should be quite managable.
  • SharpeSharpe Posts: 351
    Thanks for the level 10 build for we newbies!

    However, there seems to be no point in Flame Hammer. There has to be at least one point in it, right?

    Thanks again!
    RunicID: Sharpe103
  • V0ltaV0lta Posts: 5
    Sharpe wrote:
    Thanks for the level 10 build for we newbies!

    However, there seems to be no point in Flame Hammer. There has to be at least one point in it, right?

    Thanks again!

    You are able to remove the point at the unlearnguy.
  • TheMoveTheMove Posts: 14
    Does Charge Reconstitution work with force field? So when your FF uses charges you also get healed.
  • WilyWily Posts: 10
    TheMove wrote:
    Does Charge Reconstitution work with force field? So when your FF uses charges you also get healed.

    Yes but I believe it only works once since it doesn't stack.
  • Sharpe wrote:
    Thanks for the level 10 build for we newbies!

    However, there seems to be no point in Flame Hammer. There has to be at least one point in it, right?

    Thanks again!

    I used lvl 1 Flame Hammer until I got to Seismic Slam, then unlearned it. This was on Normal btw so ymmv
  • You're able to remove the last three skills you have learned, so you could theoretically learn two other skills, then remove it. Then if you wanted, add it back and hang onto it for two more levels. It provides some flexibility.

    V0lta, amazing!!
  • Just finished Act 1, and am probably going to park the guy and try again with a 2/1/2 S/F/V distribution (delaying Focus for a bit so I can meet the requirements for some stashed gear) as the extra armor and Physical damage are necessary early on. Unfortunately, neglecting Str early on just doesn't work, especially if I'm going to be moving up, as doing so kills the ability to equip better armor early enough to actually be of any help.

    I'm a bit unsure as far as early Skill point placement, though; on paper it seems obvious to pump Heal-bot and Force Field as much as possible with the occasional point in Bulwark (and later Seismic), but I'm not sure that's actually wise. The problem is that some mobs will drop the field in 1-2 hits (notably the Netherim Glaive throwers in Watchweald Temple), even on lower difficulties, so running it up would appear counterproductive if it's just going to get repeatedly broken the instant it goes up. Running Seismic up can help, as the Stun chance gets into the mid-70s in short order and the T1 bonus lets you catch a lot more opponents at once, but that takes a while due to level constraints.

    Either way it looks like I'm going to have to dump everything into defenses for an extended period just to survive; I was fortunate enough to find Heal Self I during this run, which was about the only thing (other than running around like a headless chicken) that kept me alive against King Pogg and Chillhoof (low Ice Armor didn't help in the latter case either) due to their ability to 1-shot my bubble at will. I'm guessing that with a couple more points in it (which I could have done by that level) it would have lasted a bit longer, but on Elite I don't see it ever soaking more than one hit per use in Boss fights as they just hit too hard.
  • @Gmasters

    As I stated earlier I'm only running this build in Veteran so take this as you will. Also, I don't use console since I prefer to level into a build. Just more fun that way I think.

    The build really does suffer early on since dps output and defenses are both mediocre at best. Especially since you won't be meeting stat requirements on most of the really good gear and will have to wait on meeting level requirements. However, if you stick with a focus/vit distribution, it pays off in spades. It picks up a bit when you can start putting points into dynamo field, even more if you've got some +electric/fire damage gear, though electric damage helped me a bit more than fire early on. I also think Fire & Spark should be pretty high on the priority list in keeping it maxed as it really does start to push your damage up nicely once you get some points invested. I really noticed a change somewhere in the 30s when I seemed to finally hit a plateau (dunno if it was gear or just finally enough points spent) and then moved from "man, this build kinda ****" to "hey, this is actually pretty solid". Now in my 40s I'm thinking "wow, so glad I didn't give up...this is pure ownage". Packs of trash just melt away under my dots and bosses go down ridiculously fast to a combination of dots and emberquake.

    Suffer a little early on and you'll get a big time payoff in the long run.

    I'm actually going to take a similar build into Elite next now that I have a better feel for how the spec works and gear I should use. Knowing that it becomes so **** strong later on also helps :D

    Edit: One thing I forgot to mention. I made the mistake of not paying attention to the kind of damage my weapon was doing and wound up using some weapons with only physical damage because they had higher dps. This seemed to hurt my damage significantly at lower levels since I just didn't have the strength stat. When I started using weapons with elemental damage along with physical damage (especially with sockets) I started to do a bit better and kill a bit quicker. I'm not a number cruncher so I'm not sure how much (if any) difference it makes but it seemed to work out better for me.
  • Very viable build for HCE. But need one point in spider mines.
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