Potential Elite Tank Build - 1H/Shield

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  • WilyWily Posts: 10
    ssringo wrote:
    Edit: One thing I forgot to mention. I made the mistake of not paying attention to the kind of damage my weapon was doing and wound up using some weapons with only physical damage because they had higher dps. This seemed to hurt my damage significantly at lower levels since I just didn't have the strength stat. When I started using weapons with elemental damage along with physical damage (especially with sockets) I started to do a bit better and kill a bit quicker. I'm not a number cruncher so I'm not sure how much (if any) difference it makes but it seemed to work out better for me.

    I'll attest to this as well. Once I had a 1-handed weapon with +Fire/+Electric and at least a point in Fire and Spark my DPS jumped up dramatically.

    I do wish there was an easier way to calculate DPS though, hoping someone makes a mod for it.
  • @ssringo: My damage output isn't really bothering me that much, it's more that without sufficient Str I can't equip the gear I need to stay sufficiently tanky. If I hadn't found Heal self I I would have been mainlining Health pots during boss fights in the latter half of Act 1 because they take FF out almost immediately, which would have made it a race between my supply thereof and their output. If they weren't effectively immune to status effects as well it would be less of an issue, since then I could at least try to stack stuns from Seismic. it doesn't help that said abilities are apparently immune to Silence; I found a spell for that and was using it in Boss fights, but it didn't seem to actually do anything (I made sure to reapply it, so that wasn't what was wrong).

    There's also the fact that when I build a melee character I tend to build very defensively at first, on the theory that all the damage in the world does me no good if I don't get to use it, and then later start pumping up my offense. Thus the tough decision, because I know that FF will not suffice by itself yet I can't really afford to skimp on it as I'm going to need that buffer a lot if/when I move up to Elite. If I wasn't so conservative about it the 3:2 F/V split would probably be more attractive, though, because I know it does work, especially if you start out with a wand in order to leverage the Focus increases. What I might do once I have Str and Vit up around 50-60 is change my distribution to something more like 1:2:2 or 3:2 F/V, eventually moving to something like 4:1 F/V, since I will not be exceeding 75-100 Str due to not needing auto-attacks for bosses once I hit L42 or so and can get my mana consumption under control (going to be gearing with that in mind).

    @V0lta: I just killed that guy, and he did not drop the item in question. Which doesn't surprise me, as the only guaranteed drop I've seen from bosses is quest items. I may end up farming the marsh section of A3 for it on another Engineer who's running that Act at this point, although I'll need more offense first.
  • well my build is almost like this
    but there's one point,i do really really little damage before lv40
    i play elite now just act begin lv38now when posion outlander do almost 8000 tow hands engi use FH do 3000 damage ,i only do 200dot damage ,well aoe damage ture.
    it's hard to play in the early time , it is.
    can't see how you play in elite ****
  • Can anyone confirm the weapon drop in Act III that is linked in this guide? Just did the Arena Challenge and it didnt drop .. got [LINK DELETED] instead *sad panda*
  • It was suggested as a guaranteed but we've seen evidence it is only potential. I'm looking into running him repeatedly online if possible.
  • I did the arena about 20 minutes ago and it dropped for me. It was my second time doing it for my character.
  • Hey Guys!!

    great thread so far, thanks for all posts and feedback. im close to finishing my build. its ment for Elite NG+++

    feedback is appreciated, and there is 1 thing im still not sure about yet. would be awesome if u guys could hlep me out <3

    Stats :

    STR: 170
    DEX: 75
    FOC: 100
    VIT: 190

    Stats, spread across the board just a tad, mostly STR and Vit though, put in some FOC for a few of the skills, and some mana, and some DEX for dodge/crit/fumble

    And to wear the Mondon armor set (eventually)

    Talents :
    [LINK DELETED]

    in summary for ppl who cba to follow link :

    Coup de Grace 1/15 (1 point wonder imo)
    Supercharge 15/15 (when auto attack for mana regen)
    Storm Burst 1/15 (mobility)

    Heal bot 15/15 (must have)
    Fire n Spark 15/15 (strong synergy with other sppells/skills)
    Bulwark 10/10 (left over points, helps FF last longer?)

    Charge Reconstitute 15/15 (godmode)
    Forcefield 15/15 (more godmode -> this games version of IDDQD and procs Reconstitute)
    Dynamo Field 15/15 (fast charge + interrupt)
    Tremor 15/15 (big AoE dmg+stun+dmg redux+procs Reconstitute)

    Now for the million dollar question : Fire Bash OR Ember Quake?
    EQ does more dmg i think, considering talents/stat point allocation
    FB gives everything else more dmg, and procs Reconstitute also...

    Plz help me work this out... I think EQ will be better early on, as FB needs full 15 talent points for the benefit.... but not sure once lvl 100....

    Less important question : Should i lose some more dex? where to put the points...

    Thanks in advance for everything <3

    Roeland
  • CaspidCaspid Posts: 360
    roeland666 wrote:
    Hey Guys!!

    great thread so far, thanks for all posts and feedback. im close to finishing my build. its ment for Elite NG+++

    feedback is appreciated, and there is 1 thing im still not sure about yet. would be awesome if u guys could hlep me out <3

    Stats :

    STR: 170
    DEX: 75
    FOC: 100
    VIT: 190

    Stats, spread across the board just a tad, mostly STR and Vit though, put in some FOC for a few of the skills, and some mana, and some DEX for dodge/crit/fumble

    And to wear the Mondon armor set (eventually)

    Talents :
    [LINK DELETED]

    in summary for ppl who cba to follow link :

    Coup de Grace 1/15 (1 point wonder imo)
    Supercharge 15/15 (when auto attack for mana regen)
    Storm Burst 1/15 (mobility)

    Heal bot 15/15 (must have)
    Fire n Spark 15/15 (strong synergy with other sppells/skills)
    Bulwark 10/10 (left over points, helps FF last longer?)

    Charge Reconstitute 15/15 (godmode)
    Forcefield 15/15 (more godmode -> this games version of IDDQD and procs Reconstitute)
    Dynamo Field 15/15 (fast charge + interrupt)
    Tremor 15/15 (big AoE dmg+stun+dmg redux+procs Reconstitute)

    Now for the million dollar question : Fire Bash OR Ember Quake?
    EQ does more dmg i think, considering talents/stat point allocation
    FB gives everything else more dmg, and procs Reconstitute also...

    Plz help me work this out... I think EQ will be better early on, as FB needs full 15 talent points for the benefit.... but not sure once lvl 100....

    Less important question : Should i lose some more dex? where to put the points...

    Thanks in advance for everything <3

    Roeland
    Here's my opinion.

    Splitting stats means you compromise damage for both. And between Strength and Focus, Focus grants more damage and survivability. If you're looking for an optimal build, I'd go Focus.

    A focus build doesn't have any reason to autoattack. It'll decrease your damage output and put you at risk. If you need mana regen, get it from gear and healbot.

    For a focus build, Tremor is useless. Take Seismic Slam instead.

    Emberquake has a larger range than Fire Bash and I think you're right on the damage assessment.

    Onslaught has better debuffs and a much shorter cooldown than Storm Burst.

    The max on Bulwark is 15, no?

    Perhaps take along Immobilization Copter, if you find it useful.
  • I've been reading about the engineer and this focus build but I'm not following on the concept of pure focus and no strength. Emberquake derives its damage from weapon dps which is derived from the strength stat...so higher strength means more emberquake dmg along with a good chunk of the engineer skills. The only noticeable skill is seismic slam that doesn't derive its power from strength. I would appreciate any corrections on my observations. thanks.
  • Caspid wrote:
    roeland666 wrote:
    Hey Guys!!

    great thread so far, thanks for all posts and feedback. im close to finishing my build. its ment for Elite NG+++

    feedback is appreciated, and there is 1 thing im still not sure about yet. would be awesome if u guys could hlep me out <3

    Stats :

    STR: 170
    DEX: 75
    FOC: 100
    VIT: 190

    Stats, spread across the board just a tad, mostly STR and Vit though, put in some FOC for a few of the skills, and some mana, and some DEX for dodge/crit/fumble

    And to wear the Mondon armor set (eventually)

    Talents :
    [LINK DELETED]

    in summary for ppl who cba to follow link :

    Coup de Grace 1/15 (1 point wonder imo)
    Supercharge 15/15 (when auto attack for mana regen)
    Storm Burst 1/15 (mobility)

    Heal bot 15/15 (must have)
    Fire n Spark 15/15 (strong synergy with other sppells/skills)
    Bulwark 10/10 (left over points, helps FF last longer?)

    Charge Reconstitute 15/15 (godmode)
    Forcefield 15/15 (more godmode -> this games version of IDDQD and procs Reconstitute)
    Dynamo Field 15/15 (fast charge + interrupt)
    Tremor 15/15 (big AoE dmg+stun+dmg redux+procs Reconstitute)

    Now for the million dollar question : Fire Bash OR Ember Quake?
    EQ does more dmg i think, considering talents/stat point allocation
    FB gives everything else more dmg, and procs Reconstitute also...

    Plz help me work this out... I think EQ will be better early on, as FB needs full 15 talent points for the benefit.... but not sure once lvl 100....

    Less important question : Should i lose some more dex? where to put the points...

    Thanks in advance for everything <3

    Roeland
    Here's my opinion.

    Splitting stats means you compromise damage for both. And between Strength and Focus, Focus grants more damage and survivability. If you're looking for an optimal build, I'd go Focus.

    A focus build doesn't have any reason to autoattack. It'll decrease your damage output and put you at risk. If you need mana regen, get it from gear and healbot.

    For a focus build, Tremor is useless. Take Seismic Slam instead.

    Emberquake has a larger range than Fire Bash and I think you're right on the damage assessment.

    Onslaught has better debuffs and a much shorter cooldown than Storm Burst.

    The max on Bulwark is 15, no?

    Perhaps take along Immobilization Copter, if you find it useful.


    yeah but i dont wanna walk around as a shielded/armored mage. used to play Paladin in DnD and such.... i wanna also be able to club stuff with a mace or axe or w/e ...

    Thanx 4 feedback though!!
  • I just started an Engi on HCE and I am convinced that this is the build that will take me the furthest.

    With almost no offensive before 42, I will never get in over my head thinking I am unstoppable. I am kiting everything and waiting for the seismic dot to run its course.

    I am level 13 and not really tanky yet... Not really fun either... :)
    Official response to the "Closed Servers" discussion:
    viewtopic.php?f=30&t=33199&p=307687#p307687
  • CaspidCaspid Posts: 360
    flescovar wrote:
    I've been reading about the engineer and this focus build but I'm not following on the concept of pure focus and no strength. Emberquake derives its damage from weapon dps which is derived from the strength stat...so higher strength means more emberquake dmg along with a good chunk of the engineer skills. The only noticeable skill is seismic slam that doesn't derive its power from strength. I would appreciate any corrections on my observations. thanks.
    because your EQ fire base damage starts at 1519.
    Magic damage bonus from Focus applies directly to this.
    Even if you had a weapon with 1500 base DPS, you would have to multiply by 63%, then apply the Strength bonus.

    In other words, if you had a weapon with a DPS of 1519, and EQ got 100% of weapon DPS, EQ damage would benefit equally from increases in Strength and increases in Focus.

    However, since you only get 63% of the weapon DPS, even though weapon damage from Strength and magic damage from Focus follow the same linear equation, Strength has a lesser impact.

    4Hqln.png

    In fact, Strength doesn't start becoming useful until around 2400 base weapon dps.
  • LogravLograv Posts: 12
    hsiaofeng wrote:
    I did the arena about 20 minutes ago and it dropped for me. It was my second time doing it for my character.

    This might sound like a noob question but how do i redo grom's arena once i have finished the quest?
  • Caspid wrote:
    flescovar wrote:
    I've been reading about the engineer and this focus build but I'm not following on the concept of pure focus and no strength. Emberquake derives its damage from weapon dps which is derived from the strength stat...so higher strength means more emberquake dmg along with a good chunk of the engineer skills. The only noticeable skill is seismic slam that doesn't derive its power from strength. I would appreciate any corrections on my observations. thanks.
    because your EQ fire base damage starts at 1519.
    Magic damage bonus from Focus applies directly to this.
    Even if you had a weapon with 1500 base DPS, you would have to multiply by 63%, then apply the Strength bonus.

    In other words, if you had a weapon with a DPS of 1519, and EQ got 100% of weapon DPS, EQ damage would benefit equally from increases in Strength and increases in Focus.

    However, since you only get 63% of the weapon DPS, even though weapon damage from Strength and magic damage from Focus follow the same linear equation, Strength has a lesser impact.

    4Hqln.png

    In fact, Strength doesn't start becoming useful until around 2400 base weapon dps.

    thank you for that but still one question with 495focus i can only do 4705 damage? seems poison outlander can easly do almost 300K
  • CaspidCaspid Posts: 360
    purplelias wrote:
    Caspid wrote:
    flescovar wrote:
    I've been reading about the engineer and this focus build but I'm not following on the concept of pure focus and no strength. Emberquake derives its damage from weapon dps which is derived from the strength stat...so higher strength means more emberquake dmg along with a good chunk of the engineer skills. The only noticeable skill is seismic slam that doesn't derive its power from strength. I would appreciate any corrections on my observations. thanks.
    because your EQ fire base damage starts at 1519.
    Magic damage bonus from Focus applies directly to this.
    Even if you had a weapon with 1500 base DPS, you would have to multiply by 63%, then apply the Strength bonus.

    In other words, if you had a weapon with a DPS of 1519, and EQ got 100% of weapon DPS, EQ damage would benefit equally from increases in Strength and increases in Focus.

    However, since you only get 63% of the weapon DPS, even though weapon damage from Strength and magic damage from Focus follow the same linear equation, Strength has a lesser impact.

    4Hqln.png

    In fact, Strength doesn't start becoming useful until around 2400 base weapon dps.

    thank you for that but still one question with 495focus i can only do 4705 damage? seems poison outlander can easly do almost 300K
    There are plenty of other factors that we've ignored for the sake of comparison. Real damage will vary with splinters, equipment, etc.

    I don't know about Outlanders, but 300k sounds awful high.
  • V0ltaV0lta Posts: 5
    ZemiChrono wrote:
    Can anyone confirm the weapon drop in Act III that is linked in this guide? Just did the Arena Challenge and it didnt drop .. got [LINK DELETED] instead *sad panda*

    This might probably be, it just dropped for me and I was all: "That's the weapon I'm gonna need to start the Tank-Engineer" ;)

    Currently I'm Lvl 45 on Elite, it goes pretty smooth if you find a working skill-rotation and get used to it. Only Bosses take long sometimes, but it's not like forever. Something I really dislike is the fact, that you only have access to shields that are pretty underleveled, but since for most Shields you need only Strength, there's not much one can do about it. Perhaps we should aim simply for a high blockchance, considerate the stats given from the shield are not that great. I had Roundhaven [LINK DELETED]) until a few levels ago when I decied to upgrade. With the passive spell it sports respectable ~35% block chance. So the question is: Roundhaven or a higher Level Shield with 14% less blockchance?
  • So what advantage is there to putting points into sword & board if strictly going Foc/Vit build??
  • ZemiChrono wrote:
    Can anyone confirm the weapon drop in Act III that is linked in this guide? Just did the Arena Challenge and it didnt drop .. got [LINK DELETED] instead *sad panda*

    It's a random rare drop, however the Arena is really easy to farm so is the best place to get it. I got it to drop on my third run, along with a couple of armor pieces I also stashed for the new character, however I do have a goodly amount (about 40% or so) of MF on said character which boosts the odds of it dropping.

    @Caspid: True, you can cover your mana needs via gear, however until you do it's really easy to run out, especially when spamming something expensive, which makes auto-attacking to leverage mana steal a pretty attractive plan. Yes, doing so will reduce damage, but it won't necessarily increase risk at the same time unless you're playing a glass cannon-type spec.
  • CaspidCaspid Posts: 360
    Gmasters wrote:
    @Caspid: True, you can cover your mana needs via gear, however until you do it's really easy to run out, especially when spamming something expensive, which makes auto-attacking to leverage mana steal a pretty attractive plan. Yes, doing so will reduce damage, but it won't necessarily increase risk at the same time unless you're playing a glass cannon-type spec.
    Get gear. Chug pots. Enchant items. Socket gems. Get mana in ways that don't gimp you. Of course it'll be harder till you get it, but that's the trade-off that people who are looking to optimize are willing to pay. Speccing Strength as a Focus build is akin to putting stats in Vit for the sole reason of making it easier until you get better defensive gear, or leveling up an early skill that you won't use later, or anything else that compromises your build.

    Going into melee range absolutely increases risk. Whether or not it matters is what depends on your specs, but why increase risk at little (unnecessary) benefit?
  • paxalpaxal Posts: 1
    Now, whats this sword :D Drop it from secret minecraft room with my mage .dpwkl.jpg
  • Gmasters wrote:
    It's a random rare drop, however the Arena is really easy to farm so is the best place to get it. I got it to drop on my third run, along with a couple of armor pieces I also stashed for the new character, however I do have a goodly amount (about 40% or so) of MF on said character which boosts the odds of it dropping.

    Thx to all who answered the question ... Gmasters .. how would one go about farming the Arena (I know it's probably a noobish question). I've tried resuming my char on a LAN game with a re-rolled map - but I cant get the arena to spawn?

    Any tips on this?
  • something anyone trying this build should do: fish for warsnout (this one is common) and largemouth bass. Both are great damage wise, and they pretty much do all the work for you on the first levels. You can pretty much just run around and your pet will kill stuff pretty fast. I'm at level 18 and the pet is still doing most of the work.
  • DabamfDabamf Posts: 2
    Gmasters wrote:
    ZemiChrono wrote:
    Can anyone confirm the weapon drop in Act III that is linked in this guide? Just did the Arena Challenge and it didnt drop .. got [LINK DELETED] instead *sad panda*

    It's a random rare drop, however the Arena is really easy to farm so is the best place to get it. I got it to drop on my third run, along with a couple of armor pieces I also stashed for the new character, however I do have a goodly amount (about 40% or so) of MF on said character which boosts the odds of it dropping.
    I'd also like to know the answer to this. WHen I remake a map and put the bell on the bellstand, he doesn't spawn. And I've searched a newly created map 3 times for the arena.

    I did complete the whole questline by the way.
  • Excellent thread.

    Here is the [LINK DELETED] I was planning on using. I would like to have some feedback, as my threads haven't really gotten any replies...

    A few questions:

    1) Is it just me, or is anyone else having difficulties using Onslaught as an escape mechanism when completely swarmed by enemies? My Engineer appears to get 'stuck' on mobs, merely hopping up and down in place. For this reason I took a single point in Storm Burst, as it pushes you through mobs and more reliably gets you to a safe place. It also serves as mana regen and gives you a nice 60% physical damage reduction for two seconds.

    2) Wouldn't ~7 points in Charge **** help to increase damage output, as it would replace a Dynamo Field in your rotation with an Emberquake? Or is there just no room to spare in your build?

    3) It seems like having a single point in Sword and Board for the rather large per-point increase of 20% of shield armor to damage would be worth it, or am I mistaken? Of course, my build also has more points in Onslaught, which is also dependent on weapon DPS.

    4) As per this thread it appears that using Spider Mines to debuff enemies greatly increases damage output. Is there a reason it isn't included in the build that I'm missing?

    Thanks again for the great, information-rich thread.
    Steam: Dr. Faustroll / Runic: scionofhorus
  • Hi im currently playing a new engi on elite and he is around level 15 now i hope im not OT but I want to make him a hybrid tank here is my proposed skill build
    [LINK DELETED]

    my dilemma right now are:

    is it a waste if i put 1 point on Coup de grace? since ill be spamming alot of stun

    is it ok to leave seismic slam on level 10? or should i max it?

    should i get supercharge? or just max out the dynamo instead?

    im going for an elemental mace on end game and im building him on 4 foc/1 vit

    need some feedbacks =)
  • Thinking of putting in 1 point in Charge ****. Seemed to proc fairly often on my original engi and would let me quake more instead of having to build up more charge with dynamo. Loving the build for **** elite.
  • fancysocks wrote:
    Thinking of putting in 1 point in Charge ****. Seemed to proc fairly often on my original engi and would let me quake more instead of having to build up more charge with dynamo. Loving the build for **** elite.
    I'm in the same boat, though I'm pumping it up to 7 as that is the 'sweet spot'.
    Steam: Dr. Faustroll / Runic: scionofhorus
  • CaspidCaspid Posts: 360
    I think the points in Bulwark, Immobilization Copter, and Charge Reconstitution are somewhat flexible; Vit could be lowered and Focus upped to boost damage by 25-50%; and Elemental Overload or Protection may be more useful; but I'm convinced that this is pretty close to the optimal build for Engineers.
  • KajimaKajima Posts: 16
    kholdmire wrote:
    Hi im currently playing a new engi on elite and he is around level 15 now i hope im not OT but I want to make him a hybrid tank here is my proposed skill build
    [LINK DELETED]

    my dilemma right now are:

    is it a waste if i put 1 point on Coup de grace? since ill be spamming alot of stun

    is it ok to leave seismic slam on level 10? or should i max it?

    should i get supercharge? or just max out the dynamo instead?

    im going for an elemental mace on end game and im building him on 4 foc/1 vit

    need some feedbacks =)

    1. Coup de Grace is a 1 point wonder, so if you can spare an extra point, go ahead.

    2. Max Seismic Slam would have better chances to stun and a huge range increase, but if you feel good with the current chance at lvl 10, then you can use the other 5 points for something else you may need.

    3. Supercharge:
    - chance to proc only, but great against single enemies.
    - no need for mana
    - since you'll be auto attacking a bit, it helps with the dps.

    Dynamo
    - ready anytime (as long as you have the mana for it).
    - Dynamo charges faster (2-3 casts = full charge if used on a group enemies.)
    - kinda a waste when used on a single enemy
  • With the block cap at 50%, is 3 Foc/2 Vit optimal? I'm around level 40 and I'm beginning to think that stacking +health and getting to the block cap with a decent shield and socketables/spells would be better stat distribution.
    Steam: Dr. Faustroll / Runic: scionofhorus
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