Potential Elite Tank Build - 1H/Shield

123578

Comments

  • CaspidCaspid Posts: 360
    With the block cap at 50%, is 3 Foc/2 Vit optimal? I'm around level 40 and I'm beginning to think that stacking +health and getting to the block cap with a decent shield and socketables/spells would be better stat distribution.
    That's my (untested) opinion as well. You don't get much from those 200 points in vit, and they'll end up costing you 100% magic damage.
  • Caspid wrote:
    With the block cap at 50%, is 3 Foc/2 Vit optimal? I'm around level 40 and I'm beginning to think that stacking +health and getting to the block cap with a decent shield and socketables/spells would be better stat distribution.
    That's my (untested) opinion as well. You don't get much from those 200 points in vit, and they'll end up costing you 100% magic damage.
    Unless I'm mistaken, you would need some amount of Vitality to reach the block cap.
    Steam: Dr. Faustroll / Runic: scionofhorus
  • LogravLograv Posts: 12
    Caspid wrote:
    With the block cap at 50%, is 3 Foc/2 Vit optimal? I'm around level 40 and I'm beginning to think that stacking +health and getting to the block cap with a decent shield and socketables/spells would be better stat distribution.
    That's my (untested) opinion as well. You don't get much from those 200 points in vit, and they'll end up costing you 100% magic damage.
    Unless I'm mistaken, you would need some amount of Vitality to reach the block cap.


    To answer that question i have to bring up a video posted by a fellow user JonnyDagor who has his own guide: viewtopic.php?f=45&t=41303

    In this video with 35 base vit, the rest comes from his gear, he has his block chance at 47%.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhXrUsGk ... ure=relmfu
  • I'm beginning to think that as well. I have a couple of low-level 1H+Shield characters, and it seems I would be far better served with a 3:2 distribution between Str or Foc and Dex and looking to gear for +Health. I have a L57 Cannoneer who's currently doing Mapworks runs, and at that point you can easily get from +200-+350 per item. I even have one that grants +458 and whose early-use requirements I happened to have met when I found it (it's L62 otherwise), although it's a rare so should not be taken as representative.

    Said melee characters do have Force Field (you'd be crazy not to), which may be skewing my perspective. I know that on the aforementioned Cannoneer, who uses Aegis instead, Vit was a good investment, but then she has a low Rate of Fire and no shield so needs the buffer.
  • LogravLograv Posts: 12
    Caspid wrote:
    With the block cap at 50%, is 3 Foc/2 Vit optimal? I'm around level 40 and I'm beginning to think that stacking +health and getting to the block cap with a decent shield and socketables/spells would be better stat distribution.
    That's my (untested) opinion as well. You don't get much from those 200 points in vit, and they'll end up costing you 100% magic damage.

    What about the viability of adding the points into dex instead of vit? Which would give us crit chance? I'm not sure how this will work since our crit damage is low compared to str builds. Maybe gearing towards more crit damage. Will that maximize our damage?
  • Lograv wrote:
    Caspid wrote:
    With the block cap at 50%, is 3 Foc/2 Vit optimal? I'm around level 40 and I'm beginning to think that stacking +health and getting to the block cap with a decent shield and socketables/spells would be better stat distribution.
    That's my (untested) opinion as well. You don't get much from those 200 points in vit, and they'll end up costing you 100% magic damage.

    What about the viability of adding the points into dex instead of vit? Which would give us crit chance? I'm not sure how this will work since our crit damage is low compared to str builds. Maybe gearing towards more crit damage. Will that maximize our damage?
    It's my understanding that it's more efficient to simply gear for crit than it is to put points into dex.

    Of course, this is completely neglecting the bonus to dodge, which greatly increases effective hit points.
    Steam: Dr. Faustroll / Runic: scionofhorus
  • Still have no idea how to farm the Grom Arena .. tried asking in several threads as well as PM to people who mentioned it in this thread .. can anyone help a noob out?
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    Tried the build on elite, was debating using it asa HCE build, but wanted to get used to the way it played on softcore first. Seem to have hit a brick wall at level 11. Bring Out Your Dead has a champion that summons loads of shroudwings, can't kill him or the bats fast enough to stay alive.

    Attacking the bets results in the champ summoning more faster than I can kill them, attacking the champ results in bats swarming me and killing me.

    The build tanks well, but I have no clue how to do enough DPS to get past fights of this nature (ie. those where taking a long time to kill an enemy results in fighting more and more enemies as time goes by).

    It should be noted that I'm playing said elite game no-reroll style, so I'm not refarming areas to get better gear, etc.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • Nauzhror wrote:
    Tried the build on elite, was debating using it asa HCE build, but wanted to get used to the way it played on softcore first. Seem to have hit a brick wall at level 11. Bring Out Your Dead has a champion that summons loads of shroudwings, can't kill him or the bats fast enough to stay alive.

    Attacking the bets results in the champ summoning more faster than I can kill them, attacking the champ results in bats swarming me and killing me.

    The build tanks well, but I have no clue how to do enough DPS to get past fights of this nature (ie. those where taking a long time to kill an enemy results in fighting more and more enemies as time goes by).

    It should be noted that I'm playing said elite game no-reroll style, so I'm not refarming areas to get better gear, etc.

    From my experience, if your not twinking or rerolling, you'll be hard pressed to get to 42 in HCE.

    Not a lot of people have HCE, no rerolls, no twinking in mind when they are making builds.

    If you are twinking, get summoner gears and spells till 42.
    Official response to the "Closed Servers" discussion:
    viewtopic.php?f=30&t=33199&p=307687#p307687
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    Aditlojs wrote:
    Nauzhror wrote:
    Tried the build on elite, was debating using it asa HCE build, but wanted to get used to the way it played on softcore first. Seem to have hit a brick wall at level 11. Bring Out Your Dead has a champion that summons loads of shroudwings, can't kill him or the bats fast enough to stay alive.

    Attacking the bets results in the champ summoning more faster than I can kill them, attacking the champ results in bats swarming me and killing me.

    The build tanks well, but I have no clue how to do enough DPS to get past fights of this nature (ie. those where taking a long time to kill an enemy results in fighting more and more enemies as time goes by).

    It should be noted that I'm playing said elite game no-reroll style, so I'm not refarming areas to get better gear, etc.

    From my experience, if your not twinking or rerolling, you'll be hard pressed to get to 42 in HCE.

    Not a lot of people have HCE, no rerolls, no twinking in mind when they are making builds.

    If you are twinking, get summoner gears and spells till 42.

    Have a level 53 HCE ember mage (extreme glass cannon, 10 vitality with 250+ focus, survives only due to eyes of grell and eyes of limoany), but it did farm, but, it hadn't rerolled yet by level 11, so some builds can certainly beat the champ in question easily at low levels, just not sure that this one can - unless of course you get really lucky with RNG and get good gear early on.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • Elazul2kElazul2k Posts: 122
    Rolled out with a new elite character to test out this build. Is anyone else having a really hard time early game during the first act or is it just me? Boss and champion fights take FOREVER and I die quite frequently if I don't chug pots. I thought this was supposed to be tanky :P
  • Elazul2k wrote:
    Rolled out with a new elite character to test out this build. Is anyone else having a really hard time early game during the first act or is it just me? Boss and champion fights take FOREVER and I die quite frequently if I don't chug pots. I thought this was supposed to be tanky :P
    Forcefield is lackluster until you get to level 20 or so, and your main damaging ability doesn't come until level 42.

    Seismic Slam and kite. Your patience will be rewarded.
    Steam: Dr. Faustroll / Runic: scionofhorus
  • Elazul2k wrote:
    Rolled out with a new elite character to test out this build. Is anyone else having a really hard time early game during the first act or is it just me? Boss and champion fights take FOREVER and I die quite frequently if I don't chug pots. I thought this was supposed to be tanky :P

    I'm doing HCE as well, level 21 currently. The only difference between my build and the op, is 1 point into spider mines and 1 point into charge **** (which I also plan to boosting to around 5 points).

    1 point in spider mines makes a huge difference at low levels. Also, feed your peed,it helps tremendously. He will out-damage you on low levels (he still out-damages me)
  • Elazul2k wrote:
    Rolled out with a new elite character to test out this build. Is anyone else having a really hard time early game during the first act or is it just me? Boss and champion fights take FOREVER and I die quite frequently if I don't chug pots. I thought this was supposed to be tanky :P
    Forcefield is lackluster until you get to level 20 or so, and your main damaging ability doesn't come until level 42.

    Seismic Slam and kite. Your patience will be rewarded.

    This is very true. On one character I tried leaving FF at 1 point for an extended period and leveling up Slam instead; while it does work it's not very mana-efficient, so if you're not tweaking it's probably not a viable plan.

    Once you get Dynamo Field, however, FF can be popped with 5 charges almost every time, which is a massive jump in efficacy. This is where the 'tanky' part really kicks in, as it can now absorb several hits before breaking. Bosses will still break it pretty easily for quite a while, though.
  • Elazul2kElazul2k Posts: 122
    Just noticed on the new patch notes that the block cap has been raised to 75% now. Looks like vitality got some McLovin'. Assuming this does not change the 3 STR 2 VIT stat distribution levels?
  • The edited build proposed at the start is pretty much my build with minor tweaks (80 engie NG+, normal) Just killed engie on elite and did a few dungeons on elite to make sure im not blowing smoke. had to dodge a bit more but thats abt it.

    I read through a few of the last pages of this thread and wanted to chime in. This build is AWESOME and pretty much melts the faces off of any enemy in game. Here are my differences (didnt see guide before my build). bosses you can pretty much stand toe to toe and emberquakea, then just stormburst when they do their 'big swing'. champions you just emberquake melt them in a few seconds. big melee/caster mobs seismic + 1 firebash or emberquake. reg trash mobs ALL die from one seismic don't even bother stopping for them.

    str/foc/vit
    1/3/1
    str and vit - only so i can wear gear. my hps or weapon DPS are totally irrelevant to me. FF always up. in fact my weapon is Groms Fireblade (lucky drop, linked in initial post) from first playthrough. Some guy told me i had a noob weapon and it was cramping my DPS :D

    -skipped dynamo, get all my charge from charge **** in non boss situations (most bosses have minions tho so it still works there)
    -maxed shield bash to gain charge against bosses and demolish caster champions. have heard bash also got stronger in last patch, will advise.
    -stormburst instead of onslaught for dodging bc it refills 50 mana + per use (if you dodge thru mobs) and has a non listed benefit of giving you 50% damage reduction for 2 seconds after you use it...look at the little buff counter.
    -max focus as possible on gear and max +fire dmg. im at ~400 focus and +173 fire damage.
    -not at all concerned about crits. emberquake hits for 23k+ on the training dummy (with' normal' dmg number display). mana regen rate lets me pretty much hold it down long enough to kill pretty much anything.
    -mana regen important (22/sec + a ring thats 5.8/sec for each enemy in 3m)
    -flame bash - tier 3 tooltip says increases 'targets take addl 50% fire damage while burning'. does that mean fire dam boost overall? we'll find out when im high enough level. until then this a great opener for big melee enemies, DOTs and pushes enemies out of range to 'big swing' you, right to the edge of range for your seismic.
    -no bulwark/ageis/sword and board/charge recon bc there's no need. just FF, dodge big swings and melt that mob.

    very fun to play i might add. i assigned stormburst to space so im constantly jetting around, dotting, firebashing close melee mobs and seismic'ing the room. very little potion use is needed.
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    Took almost 10 minutes, but beat Mordrox on HCE at level 11 with this build.

    I don't think it'd have been doable if I hadn't gotten lucky with the blacksmith, he was selling a fantastic weapon (for this stage of the game anyway).

    Ole's Massive Wrench
    161 damage per second
    Very Slow Attack Speed (1.56)
    Physical Damage: 150-300
    +33 Physical Damage
    Silence for 1 second
    90% Interrupt chance

    Massively outdamaged anything else I'd found so far.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    Grell went down in 6 minutes.

    Used:

    Warspike
    129 damage per second
    Very Slow Attack Speed (1.44 seconds)
    Physical Damage: 105-140
    Fire Damage: 35-46
    1 socket: Blood Ember Speck - 12 health stolen on hit
    10% bonus to critical damage
    -3 to All Armor per hit
    4% faster movement speed
    Conveys 60 Physical Damage Over 5 Seconds

    Then pulled a lucky as **** double enchant where they were both "powerful" enchantments from the electric enchanter, to add 25 electric damage to it.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • I REALLY wanted to like this build. Having Force field as well as the recent change to shields makes this sound amazing...

    That is, until you come upon your first boss. This has terrible dmg and I am at a loss in figuring out how anyone makes it to lvl42 for your first actual dmg skill.
    Runic/Steam ID: greybucket
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    greybucket wrote:
    I REALLY wanted to like this build. Having Force field as well as the recent change to shields makes this sound amazing...

    That is, until you come upon your first boss. This has terrible dmg and I am at a loss in figuring out how anyone makes it to lvl42 for your first actual dmg skill.

    I'm progressing with it, just..not...quickly.

    I might have had more luck with RNG than you so far though.

    EDIT: Decided to record Widow Veil and use it an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS8wxFtjQUI

    At least early on this build is only terrible damage-wise if you actually use a shield, for the first half of the dungeon I used a shield, and struggled to kill things and had to use a lot of potions, second half (and the boss) I used a 2-hander and was much more successful. I suspect this will remain the case until getting emberquake, or at least close to it.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • son12son12 Posts: 8
    I'm doing the focus emberquake build and it is absolutely horrible until late 20s.

    You start out with only seismic slam, which does pretty horrible damage at the early levels. At this point I experimented with 2H, 1H/shield, staves and wands. I found wands/staves to be best simply because it would scale with focus that you're pumping. 1H or 2H physical damage weapons did too little damage. Wands were better against bosses/champions because you are ranged. Alternatively you could rely on learning/unlearning flame hammer, but I didn't find it to be much better during lv10-20.

    At 21 you get onslaught and dynamo, which makes things a little better. However, you can't use onslaught with wands. I would use a staff, onslaught > seismic > autoattack/kite/onslaught back out. I would pretty much rely on the DoT from seismic. On single targets I'd still switch out to the wand.

    By the later 20s, your forcefield gets better, able to last 3~5 seconds facing trash mobs. At this point I had a better mana pool and better regen, so I wouldn't rely on any autoattacking anymore and opted for a 1H/shield or 2H, focusing on highest weapon dps for onslaught. I would onslaught > seismic > dynamo > onslaught > dynamo. This rotation lets dynamo do the full 2 seconds DoT, and seismic for its full 5 seconds. It also lets dynamo build enough charge for a 3-5 charge force field. On bosses I had to onslaught > seismic > onslaught back out, while boss trash would be an opportunity to build charge via onslaught > dynamo.

    You really have to get a feel for how long your forcefield would last and when to onslaught out to heal, otherwise you'd die really quickly in the middle of mobs. I found it to be easier to onslaught/seismic around the edges of mob groups as oppose to jumping right into it rambo style.

    I just hit lv30 and just got to salt barrens in act 2. I'm really looking forward to getting stormburst/firebash and see how they work into the skill rotation.

    To all those that don't even have onslaught and dynamo in their build... sorry but I call BS on legit leveling unless you're vastly outleveling the content, being carried in multiplayer and/or seriously twinked. I just don't see how anyone can manage to get this far only with autoattack and seismic slam.
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    son12 wrote:
    I found wands/staves to be best simply because it would scale with focus that you're pumping. 1H or 2H physical damage weapons did too little damage. Wands were better against bosses/champions because you are ranged.

    I've mostly been using a polearm that does magic damage and just running up to melee range and tanking the champions and bosses.

    Used a hammer that dealt phys damage against Mordrox, but only because at that point it was by FAR the best weapon I'd found, but when he died he dropped Warspike which has been my primary weapon since then - for tough enemies anyway, I often switch back to Powerspike/Ironplank Woodspike when fighting weaker trash mobs just to have the shield lower incoming damage, I don't mind downing potions to speed up a boss fight, but can't afford to do that on every fight.
    son12 wrote:
    To all those that don't even have onslaught and dynamo in their build... sorry but I call BS on legit leveling unless you're vastly outleveling the content, being carried in multiplayer and/or seriously twinked. I just don't see how anyone can manage to get this far only with autoattack and seismic slam.

    How "far"?

    I don't have onalsught or dynamo (which is obvious since I'm not level 21 yet), I haven't rerolled, haven't played online, and haven't touched the shared stash so far. I do however use an excel sheet with various calculations to determine which gear I find is the best so am very much min/maxing, I think most people take a glance at their gear and swap to newer stuff if they think it might be better, I on the other hand know for a fact the stuff I am currently wearing is the best (from a standpoint of survival at least, all my gear is geared for defense, not offense - with the exception of opting for a 2hander as mentioned above for tough fights) stuff I have found on the current laythrough.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • Well, decided to try and level some more as I'm dedicated to level this guy and lo and behold I got the following drop:

    [LINK DELETED]

    So at level 23, I dropped the Twinferno wand that I had and was able to use Onslaught. The survivablility of this build is great, but now I am starting to do a decent amount of damage. I can see the benefits of using Dynamo, it just doesn't seem to be that great as things usually die to quick for me to gain a decent amount of charge. I've mainly been using Onslaught -> Seismic Blast -> Auto-Attack -> Seismic Blast as needed and reapplying Forcefield. I'm working on my rotation and the best placement of my skills so I can start training myself to use them effectively and without thinking. Coming from an Embermage and being so used to using buttons in a certain order will take some time to retrain myself.

    So far so good and I'm glad I didn't give up this this guy too soon. I can really see already how well he will do later on when I gain more skills. I have 22% Block Chance and 33% Damage Reduction (thanks to a couple Grell's Eye that I had)... He really is hard to take down if I play smart. Using the Railforged Set right now and the Machine Forged Set in my stash for when I hit lvl 36.
    Runic/Steam ID: greybucket
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    Okay, level 20, and really starting to have issues now. either not gotten good enough drops, I ****, or this build is barely (if at all) viable for elite. Not saying it's a bad build at high levels, but characters don't start at level 100, they have to be able to get there to be a good build.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • Nauzhror wrote:
    Okay, level 20, and really starting to have issues now. either not gotten good enough drops, I ****, or this build is barely (if at all) viable for elite. Not saying it's a bad build at high levels, but characters don't start at level 100, they have to be able to get there to be a good build.

    I felt the same way as you, it does start getting better very soon. Look for weapons with either fire or electric damage and/or both. Reroll areas to gain a few levels so you're a little over-leveled for mobs. I'm only lvl23 so I don't know ow how things are gonna be from here to lvl42, but it's pretty good right now.

    On Veteran, the Grand Reagent was soooo easy and I didn't use a pot. I actually beat him down way faster than my mage.
    Runic/Steam ID: greybucket
  • greybucket wrote:
    Nauzhror wrote:
    Okay, level 20, and really starting to have issues now. either not gotten good enough drops, I ****, or this build is barely (if at all) viable for elite. Not saying it's a bad build at high levels, but characters don't start at level 100, they have to be able to get there to be a good build.

    I felt the same way as you, it does start getting better very soon. Look for weapons with either fire or electric damage and/or both. Reroll areas to gain a few levels so you're a little over-leveled for mobs. I'm only lvl23 so I don't know ow how things are gonna be from here to lvl42, but it's pretty good right now.

    On Veteran, the Grand Reagent was soooo easy and I didn't use a pot. I actually beat him down way faster than my mage.
    It gets steadily smoother until you get to 42, when it becomes extremely efficient.

    Having a Grom's Fireblade to feed to your growing Focus Tank is good.
    Steam: Dr. Faustroll / Runic: scionofhorus
  • Will keep an eye out for that. May have to farm for it :-)
    Runic/Steam ID: greybucket
  • So I followed this build on Elite. This was also my first real character besides one I made to play the demo. I am currently level 65 and things are progressing pretty smoothly, now.

    The early levels are very rough indeed. I resorted to using a wand and name calling while things simmered in my Seismic Slam flames. (I wouldn't really say they burned.) I actually also relied heavily on my pet for damage; having fished up a giant jackal bass early on. I stacked +% pet and minion damage and gave the pet a range of summon spells.

    I put one point into ember hammer and onslaught but didn't really take the wand off until sometime into act II. Basically by then I would onslaught in, seismic slam, and then alternate between dynamo and ember hammer to help coax the damage along. Most champion fights were taking around 5 minutes and bosses usually took 10+ minutes. I did eventually get a Glorious unique sword that I stuck the rift ember in that gave +10 mana per hit. This helped a lot. Having a weapon with +mana on hit allows you to just spam skills without having to wait for healbot pulses or potions. This becomes pretty important later when you FINALLY get to ember quake as that tends to eat mana. Currently I also have several void embers installed to increase passive mana gain. I think 4 total.

    When facing a boss or other long encounter you get into a rhythm of building charges with dynamo for your next forcefield, ember quaking for damage, regularly attacking for mana, and using onslaught and seismic slam for crowd control and debuffing. Brute type creatures are especially susceptible to an onslaught and immobilization copter combo. If you hit the monster with onslaught just as it is beginning an attack animation the combined slow effect with the copter will last for the entire animation. I have jumped in and killed a few brutes and only had them complete a single attack animation this way.

    Other equipment that has helped a lot would be the Grundig Set that can usually be found on the act 1 blacksmith once you are in the early to mid 20's. The % damage reduction on the pants paired with the shield is pretty decent. Pretty much anything that adds based on a percentage is good. +% fire damage is very helpful for emberquake and can help seismic slam too. Most trash monsters will die in a single seismic slam and a few dynamos now.

    In most multiplayer games with 4+ people I just become a mobile forcefield generator and focus on slowing and stunning enemies as most things are dying too fast for anything else. Solo and 2-3 player games I do plenty of ember quaking and can usually dish out just as much if not more damage than my squishier companions.

    Things to watch out for: Floor traps as always, blue flames, Vyrax's Fire Breath. Those last two ignore forcefield and can ruin your day quick. Getting a sense of the kind of damage you are taking can be tough, especially later on when damage can become incredibly bursty. But keeping a full charge ready to reapply forcfield can help. Also, use emberquakes range to your advatage. No one says you HAVE to sit there getting beat to **** just because you have a forcefield that lets you.

    All in all a great build and I believe with some more +% fire damage gear, Stacking tons of focus, and possibly +% damage to secondary targets mods (as right now I am under the impression this affects the fire portion of emberquake damage.) It will be able to kill very very quickly while also being a straight up tank.
  • glez13glez13 Posts: 3
    I have been trying something like this for my first Engie. So far I'm starting act 3 still below level 42(so no emberquake yet) and while I didn't struggled for the most part defense wise(the first few levels of Forcefield are very weak) every battle has been taking ages because I have no good damage. Lucky me I found the unique axe Treechop that does mostly electrical damage. Also with the help of my other characters(I was about to sell them the other day with my Outlander), a drop, and two purchases from the merchant(I think I got one piece as a quest reward but not sure) I managed to complete the Zeraphi Alchemy set which boosts electrical damamge. So I skipped Seismic Slam and only focused on Onslaught and Dynamo Field that do electric damage.
    But even like this damage output has been a problem.
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    I'm level 34 and using this mostly so far:

    [LINK DELETED]
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
Sign In or Register to comment.