Potential Elite Tank Build - 1H/Shield

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  • Dekar0Dekar0 Posts: 93
    ember wrote:
    You probably already know this but ill just post it nevertheless:

    Just wanted to add that storm burst is a much better option for the manouvers since during the move you get a physical damage reduction (I think it is a 60% phys dmg reduction) and you recover %5 mana for any enemy you hit, while onslaught definately helps slowing down stuff, you are going to need that physical damage reduction more. The trick with all the skils is that you can be hit while you start them up, and at the start of the burst you get the 60% while with onslaught you get nothing, or be even more boss and have both of them :)

    Also if you are dumping 15/15 in reconstitution (which is kinda pointles since you can just press a helth potion keybind at the same time) it might be better to shift it to aegis, the problem is that forcefield will be going down sometimes faster then you can get it back up because of the cool down, and by the time you get it to 15/15 you might need something else to help you survive the killing blows.

    I don't know if copter gets the benefit from the hight focus but it will definately help you survive so that is an cool investment.

    Also considering you have high focus and a shield a skill such as Shield Bash (or even fire bash) would be cool, because shield bash benefits from FOCUS and your full charge, but generaly since you have seismic slam it might be moot.

    Depending on the equpment you can either forcus your gear on getting VIT of Focus, maybe you can go more aggresive and dump more in focus and get the vit via the gear (or the other way around).

    Dumping or gearing around 100-120 points in dex might make your emberquaqe even more deadly.

    At least one point in charge **** will benefit you.

    Cool thanks for the inputs, I will def try storm burst, my cannongeer hasn't needed anything because frankly cannons are OP, so I never tested it but being melee can get hairy so a good escape is welcomed.

    I'm not really a fan of either bash skill in TL2, I usually love those types of skills but they seem a bit weak?
  • Dekar0Dekar0 Posts: 93
    Well, the reason I thought SnB would be great is because I read it adds extra damage directly to your weapon damage, influenced by DPS.

    For example, you have a 100 damage 1.0s weapon. so it does 100 DPS.

    You have a 100 damage 0.5s weapon so it does 200 DPS.

    If you had the ~53 damage from Old Master Q and 1 point of SnB, your first weapon becomes:

    153 over 1.0s so 153 DPS.

    and your second weapon becomes

    153 over 0.5s or 306 over 1.0s.

    Essentially... with a quick weapon SnB adds a crazy amount of damage.

    Is this incorrect? I wonder how +attack speed gems/mods factor in there as well.
  • Dekar0 wrote:
    Well, the reason I thought SnB would be great is because I read it adds extra damage directly to your weapon damage, influenced by DPS.

    For example, you have a 100 damage 1.0s weapon. so it does 100 DPS.

    You have a 100 damage 0.5s weapon so it does 200 DPS.

    If you had the ~53 damage from Old Master Q and 1 point of SnB, your first weapon becomes:

    153 over 1.0s so 153 DPS.

    and your second weapon becomes

    153 over 0.5s or 306 over 1.0s.

    Essentially... with a quick weapon SnB adds a crazy amount of damage.

    Is this incorrect? I wonder how +attack speed gems/mods factor in there as well.
    That's how it works, but that's still not very impressive to me. Without Haste up, my weapon DPS is 11633. SnB gives, best case scenario, maybe 600 DPS, assuming you use a lightning fast weapon and stack IAS.
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  • Dekar0Dekar0 Posts: 93
    I suppose you're right, maybe I'll try it on a console char first but hmm where should those other 14 or 15 go? :P

    Yes I was using sledge as a distraction so I suppose putting another 10 in there is wise. Maybe 4 more in charge dom and keep 1 in SnB, Idk.
  • Storm Burst is a better escape spell because it's more reliable. You don't get stuck behind mobs - you push them out of the way. Whenever you click the button, you move in that direction. Onslaught is much worse about this. The DR% is actually just gravy on top of that.

    The plan for my HCE tankineer is basically to replace two of SCE tankineer skills with more suitable HC skills. Seismic Slam is going to become Spidermines. They both CC enemies, but one of them requires me to be in the mix, and the other doesn't. Fire and Spark is going to become Sledgebot, because frankly there is enough exciting in **** without needing to increase my fire damage factor from from 4.5 to 5.25 :). And Storm Burst is used in preference to Onslaught, because I pretty much never want to jump into a pack of enemies. I want to be like Scarface: a BAMF that's hard to reach in the first place, and once you do, it's still nearly impossible to kill him. I haven't bothered planning out to 100, because in non-**** mode, you never live to 100 anyway. But if I did get that far, I would just fill out the skills you see here and take Gunbot as well.

    [LINK DELETED]

    I don't think it's realistic to be a face tank on HCE, no matter how sweet that would have been.

    Oh, and BTW, for the first part of the game, I am floating a point in Blast Cannon to give me something to do while I wait for Force Field to level up and a good shield to drop.
  • emberember Posts: 259
    Storm Burst is a better escape spell because it's more reliable. You don't get stuck behind mobs - you push them out of the way. Whenever you click the button, you move in that direction. Onslaught is much worse about this. The DR% is actually just gravy on top of that.

    The plan for my HCE tankineer is basically to replace two of SCE tankineer skills with more suitable HC skills. Seismic Slam is going to become Spidermines. They both CC enemies, but one of them requires me to be in the mix, and the other doesn't. Fire and Spark is going to become Sledgebot, because frankly there is enough exciting in **** without needing to increase my fire damage factor from from 4.5 to 5.25 :). And Storm Burst is used in preference to Onslaught, because I pretty much never want to jump into a pack of enemies. I want to be like Scarface: a BAMF that's hard to reach in the first place, and once you do, it's still nearly impossible to kill him. I haven't bothered planning out to 100, because in non-**** mode, you never live to 100 anyway. But if I did get that far, I would just fill out the skills you see here and take Gunbot as well.

    [LINK DELETED]

    I don't think it's realistic to be a face tank on HCE, no matter how sweet that would have been.

    Oh, and BTW, for the first part of the game, I am floating a point in Blast Cannon to give me something to do while I wait for Force Field to level up and a good shield to drop.

    You will find that Sledgebot is really starting to get usefull from T2 while moderately to not really usefull before T2, you really need to make your playstyle around sledgebot to make it work and I don't know how much of that is viable for elite (hc elite even worse), if you want the T3 sledgebot should be there.

    Also I notice that your emberquaqe is not T3 and you really should have at least one 15/15 damage dealer, with high focus it might just as well be it.

    Even if you plan to be sort of tankish in HCE you should put more accent on Burst/quick damage and aoe, than slow and gradual damage.

    While spidermines are always a great idea your focus character will benefit from the seismic slam > emberquake combo. and on 15/15 for seicmic you get a nice range. So high foc 15/15 for seismic, quaqe and fire&spark

    In other words:
    [LINK DELETED]

    Substituting sledgebot and dumping the rest in spider mines is also a very good alternative, since your spiders will benefit from both fire and spark and focus (the DoT part that is).

    Also there is really noting bad in having one point in both onslaught and storm burst. You get in with onslaught, stun, dynamo, quaqe, storm burst away (or sideways :)) spider mines and forcefield when every either dynamo or **** gives you the stuff. Also due to your high focus you can actually spam spidermines almost always, or do what I like to do and that is cast spidermines than storm burst, etc:
    [LINK DELETED]

    The point about sledgebot is that you really need to play with him a decent amount of time to really learn how to make most of him. I play cannonier summoner (veteran mind you) so I use my sledgebot in such way that an enemy or a boss has to go trough him to actually reach me, but I can have this freadom of position not only because there is a 15/15 gunbot killing everything but because I am ranged and can simply stay a little bit behiind the sledge bot and the boss and simply blast cannon trough him (of course stuff complicates with teleport bosses, but then again then it woun't be chalenging).
  • I planned the build to level 67, not to level 100, because in HCE, you need to plan for the game, not the "endgame". You need to take points and wear items that benefit you along the way.

    It' impossible to take 15/15 of a level 42 skill at level 67. The highest you can go is 10/15. As I said, I will fill out the build if I make it that high.

    However, I do appreciate your advice on sledgebot. I've never played with him before. It might be silly to use him for the first time in HCE. Truth is, I probably won't make it that far anyway :).
  • vh0xvh0x Posts: 5
    I've been using this build, currently level 34. Working great so far, damage isn't as bad as I thought it would be.

    I picked up Fireball III and man that thing friggin rocks. Do spells see the increase from your fire damage?

    At level 34 it says +496-827 Fire Damage but I've been hitting bosses for 1200 with Fireball. And you can cast it every 5 seconds!
  • emberember Posts: 259
    I planned the build to level 67, not to level 100, because in HCE, you need to plan for the game, not the "endgame". You need to take points and wear items that benefit you along the way.

    It' impossible to take 15/15 of a level 42 skill at level 67. The highest you can go is 10/15. As I said, I will fill out the build if I make it that high.

    However, I do appreciate your advice on sledgebot. I've never played with him before. It might be silly to use him for the first time in HCE. Truth is, I probably won't make it that far anyway :).

    Ah i see :)

    Then I see spiderbots be a much better return on the investment than the sledgebot.
  • I have a question if this build is viable?
    I am currently planning to get back to engineer and torn between this and this build.
    The second one is much more passive-relying (read easier to play) but this one seems to be more viable. I am planning to play veteran, which one will be better?

    P.S>I used to play PB EM, and Glaive-Spammer OL so playing engi will be way harder than previous ones.
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  • Whether focus or strength is better is dependent on your weapon's DPS (higher favors strength) and your crit chance (higher favors strength). viewtopic.php?f=45&t=44579#p403035
  • Whether focus or strength is better is dependent on your weapon's DPS (higher favors strength) and your crit chance (higher favors strength). viewtopic.php?f=45&t=44579#p403035

    Higher level favors str, so eventually end game STR is the way to go
    also as a side note Sword and Boards ****, dual wielding or 2 hander is where it is at
    Kicking **** here ---> viewtopic.php?f=45&t=45250
  • armisarmis Posts: 489
    Dekar0 wrote:
    Well, the reason I thought SnB would be great is because I read it adds extra damage directly to your weapon damage, influenced by DPS.

    For example, you have a 100 damage 1.0s weapon. so it does 100 DPS.

    You have a 100 damage 0.5s weapon so it does 200 DPS.

    If you had the ~53 damage from Old Master Q and 1 point of SnB, your first weapon becomes:

    153 over 1.0s so 153 DPS.

    and your second weapon becomes

    153 over 0.5s or 306 over 1.0s.

    Essentially... with a quick weapon SnB adds a crazy amount of damage.

    Is this incorrect? I wonder how +attack speed gems/mods factor in there as well.
    That's how it works, but that's still not very impressive to me. Without Haste up, my weapon DPS is 11633. SnB gives, best case scenario, maybe 600 DPS, assuming you use a lightning fast weapon and stack IAS.
    That's because S&B adds damage after everything else is calculated, so it's not modified by Str, Foc, or any other damage enhancer in the game. See this post for detailed numbers, or this thread for more general info on how things work.
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  • Dude, What level are you now?

    I am at work, and couldn't get past page 4 now, but will tonight.

    I have a real issue with being level 22 and advancing to the next level by entering the Mission of Mercy; final quest in Act I.

    I wanted to find out if you used any special tricks to get you through levels 18-23? The stumbling block I am having.

    Magic
  • Dude, What level are you now?

    I am at work, and couldn't get past page 4 now, but will tonight.

    I have a real issue with being level 22 and advancing to the next level by entering the Mission of Mercy; final quest in Act I.

    I wanted to find out if you used any special tricks to get you through levels 18-23? The stumbling block I am having.

    Magic

    Pro Tip Bulwark is usless. So is Ember Hammer. This "tanky" build is fine for flavor but really Vit is useless if you are running a Force-field spec which this has.
    Kicking **** here ---> viewtopic.php?f=45&t=45250
  • Just did a quick scan for the original poster, and an update, but I can't find any. Since this thread is a stickied thread, I assume he tested this build and it worked on Elite?

    If not the original poster, has anyone finished this build in Elite to get through to Mapworks?

    I am confused on why this is a stickied post if the poster hasn't tested this build?

    Magic
  • Its a decent build and it'll get you to elite. However there are other 1H/Shield builds that will get you there too. Take a look around the forum.
  • Why take Charge Reconstitution when you have force field your HP will regen with heal bot when you have force field up anyway
  • Its a decent build and it'll get you to elite. However there are other 1H/Shield builds that will get you there too. Take a look around the forum.

    I'm doing elite with a 2 hander build. Being good gets your through elite.
  • armisarmis Posts: 489
    Jourmand1r wrote:
    Its a decent build and it'll get you to elite. However there are other 1H/Shield builds that will get you there too. Take a look around the forum.

    I'm doing elite with a 2 hander build. Being good gets your through elite.
    Let's discuss it again when you hit NG++ though.
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  • armis wrote:
    Jourmand1r wrote:
    Its a decent build and it'll get you to elite. However there are other 1H/Shield builds that will get you there too. Take a look around the forum.

    I'm doing elite with a 2 hander build. Being good gets your through elite.
    Let's discuss it again when you hit NG++ though.

    Oh yeah, i forgot that its always tomorrow when the game gets too hard and suddenly the "professionals" with their "optimal builds" are the only ones who can play.

    Please google level 100 2 handed engineer gameplay and you will clearly see that elite can be done with a 2 hander.
  • armisarmis Posts: 489
    Take a chill pill. I just said "let's discuss it again," I didn't actually say you were wrong. I haven't tried a 2H build but I don't see why it wouldn't work, especially if you don't really mind being one-shotted marginally more than with a tank build. However, you're level 40 and in Act 2 of NG0 (as of yesterday), and I'm just saying, the game goes on.
    Have a question about game mechanics? Start here.
    Everything you ever wanted to know about Embermage skills.
    Wondering if you should pick Flame Hammer or Emberquake? This is for you.
  • I have an almost end-gear Lvl100 Focus 2-hander Engineer at the end of EliteNG++right now and just going to say that it works pretty well BUT you have to be very cautious and mobile.

    Unlike the sword-shield build, we don't have a possible 75% block chance layer of defense on top of Forcefield, which in REALLY noticeable in terms of survival.

    I noticed starting from Elite NG+, certain mobs will 1 hit (or a slither of health) you EVEN with a fully charged Forcefield if you happen to think to just stand in there and take it like a man. These are mobs like trolls, werewolves, champion Varkolyn Brutes. Worst of all could probably be that War Machine boss in Mapworks with his thunder guns. In my case that is 60k forcefield, 38% damage reduction and 10k something health almost insta-gibbed.

    Shields will be vital in preventing stuff from 1hitting you late game and make 2 handers definitely less survivable because of that.

    As a 2 hander, just make sure to suit up on basic tank things like HP, damage reductions etc., utilize immobilzing copter/onslaught/storm bust and kite around, manually dodge and keep stun locking monsters with Heavy Lifting enhanced Flame Hammer/Emberquake
  • I just tried your build. It's pretty sweet, because you make charge super fast. I had a powercharge build with a 1h 0.56 atk speed weapon and 2 eyes of gallo. Rarely needed forcefield (playing in elite +ng lvl 54 atm and tankin lvl 60+ creeps). This build seems forcefield dependant, and thats cool, the only problem i have is: 1.should i change my weapon to a mace with fire dmg? 2. how do u deal with the low mana. My stats currently are:

    Strength = 15+192(from enchants) = 207
    Dexterity = 5 +271(from enchants) = 276
    Focus = 148 + 127(from enchants) = 275
    Vitality = 142 + 78(from enchants) = 220

    As to why i have enchants with dexterity is because i was a aa'er with life on hit, so criticals were the main source of my charge. So if u could answer my questions i would appreciate it.

    EDIT: forgot, with ur build and my stats i can still tank easily. And my emberquake crits a lot.
  • I have been running through the game on Elite using this build pretty much as specified. The build really **** early and you do need some patience to get to the point where it starts to shine. You get a noticable boost to survivability at 21 but you really have to be patient with mob kills until you get emberquake at 42. Boss mobs take a loooong time to die before emberquake. The build is starting to become more mana intensive so I am starting to find myself using mana potions a bit.

    One thought I did have on the build is that it might be worth putting a point into charge ****. This is one point I have put into something different than the listed build and it seems to trigger more than I expected. I am also wondering if you could get away with leaving dynamo at 10/15 as it is only used for building up charge. 10 points seems to build it up fast enough at the moment but I am only just entering NG+.
  • currently on ng++, im lvl 88 and man this build is awesome. Right click and everything dies. I got rid of seismic slam and got tremor instead (reason being i rather spend my cast time on something that does dmg (tremor or emberquake). Seismic is kind of meh later on. So i guess u could say i changed the build a bit. Currently im just rightclickin my way through ng++. I'll report when i get to tank lvl 120 mobs
  • How the **** i'm supposed to survive before lvl 42 with SL as my only attack skill. Its just impossible.
  • Hey!

    I'm playing this build and I just hit level 42. It's my first toon. I found that because Emberquake costs so much mana I have been killing faster with just Flame Hammer. Will the mana regen/pool be better once I get some gear and levels?
  • dragunova wrote:
    Hey!

    I'm playing this build and I just hit level 42. It's my first toon. I found that because Emberquake costs so much mana I have been killing faster with just Flame Hammer. Will the mana regen/pool be better once I get some gear and levels?

    well, u ll have a better regen with healing bot, if its really an issue, u can use a gem with mana regen on hit, really useful
  • soooo, with this focus build, how do you upgrade your weapon? am i supposed to use a wand?

    i'm lvl 72 with a lvl 37 unique sword, and a lvl 42 unique shield. i've gambled a couple hundred thousand gold, and everything i get needs strength...
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