My Akimbo Pistol Build

EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
Poison is great, but variety is nice as well. This build uses a quite different skill set from the shotgun build I posted earlier. Attribute allocation is the same; 50/50 Str/Dex until you hit 110 Dex, then the rest in Strength. It should be a little better for group play due to a stronger emphasis on buffs and debuffs that others can benefit from. You'll eventually have an extra skill point to put wherever. This is just a theory build for me at the moment; I may test it out in an Elite run later. Skills are as follows:

Rune Vault - 1
Chaos Burst - 10
Cursed Daggers - 1
Venomous Hail - 1
Long Range Mastery - 15
Akimbo - 15
Tangleshot - 1
Glaive Sweep - 1
Brambles - 1
Dodge Mastery - 15
Share the Wealth - 15
Blade Pact - 15
Shadowshot - 10
Repulsion Hex - 15
Stone Pact - 15

Like I said, the buffs/debuffs are better here. You do exclusively physical damage, with the exception of a tiny DoT from Tangleshot that doesn't amount to anything. Once you get going, you should be safe from a lot of melee attackers; full strength Blade Pact slows them down greatly, and full strength Repulsion Hex can handle even more, so those skills synergize well. It would probably take around a dozen enemies closing in on you while stationary before any of them could actually hit you. Blade Pact also debuffs targets' physical armor, and all of your attacks do physical damage. If you play with a friend who fights in melee, the combination of Blade Pact and Stone Pact provides huge defensive benefits, and a fair amount of offense from the armor debuff as well. Cursed Daggers is strictly a damage debuff for this build; you'll do basically no damage with it, but dropping enemy damage by 20% can help a lot in conjunction with the other buffs/debuffs. Chaos Burst and Shadowshot both get ten ranks; the incremental gains for more ranks are moderate; feel free to take five points from one and add to the other if you've got a favorite. Ten ranks in each is a good allocation though, since they get most of their effectiveness by that point (including the 'poisoned' status, which debuffs armor and offense by 33%) and they are generally useful in different situations. Chaos Burst around walls, Shadowshot in the open. Brambles makes for a good distraction and is full strength at one rank, plus with a rank in Glaive Sweep you can build charge off of it before you go into a fight. With a moderate amount of mana leech, this build should have a lot fewer mana problems than the Rapid Fire shotgun build, thanks to your high attack rate. Single target damage output is less mana dependent than with Rapid Fire shotguns. Venomous Hail shows up again and will do a trivial amount of damage; use it when nothing else can hit to score free kills without exposing yourself to danger, but don't use it when under attack. Each of the 8 waves can apply damage over time effects if the weapon in your right hand has them (albeit at half strength) and they do stack with each other, so if you've got "does X damage over Y seconds" on the gun in your right hand, Venomous Hail will do a lot more damage than you're expecting just by repeatedly applying the DoT. Tangleshot is fully functional at one rank; snare enemies with charge/teleport attacks and they can't use them against you.

Against bosses, you have a somewhat complicated strategy with a lot of different things you'll want to have going. Stack up all your buffs and debuffs: Stone Pact, Blade Pact, Cursed Daggers. Autoattack as needed to get the mana to keep them all going. If you have plenty of mana, fire off a few Chaos Bursts to see if you can apply the Poisoned condition to drop their damage and damage resistance by a third, then spam Shadowshot until the poisoned effect wears off. Bosses are huge; all the projectiles that normally hit walls or chase butterflies over the horizon will hit them, inflicting quite a bit of damage. This approach is made somewhat simpler by the fact that if you're juggling all of these skills effectively, boss damage output should be cut by more than half, so you should be able to play a lot less evasively without getting killed. Dodge the big obvious attacks if you can, but your time is better spent keeping your buffs and debuffs going than jogging around trying to dodge everything.

In terms of gear, you'll want fast attacking pistols with mana steal if you can get them. Bonuses to Execute would be nice but are not essential; attack skills don't care what your Execute rate is. Stuff that improves attack speed helps your autoattacks, but casting speed buffs improve your ability to spam Chaos Burst or Shadowshot, so they'll probably be more useful for increasing your peak damage output. If you find good weapons aside from pistols, you can use them but you'll lose the Akimbo bonus. None of your skills care what your damage per shot is, only your damage per second, so feel free to use whatever you want. It might be worthwhile to carry a shotgun with a good DoT just to switch over to for Venomous Hail and get a little more damage out of it. That skill scales off Strength as well as Focus, so any Outlander can use it if they've got a gun.
Trust me, I've checked.
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Comments

  • Thank you Empyrean, this is what I have been looking for. For whatever odd reason, I have had it in my head that my outlander just had to be dual pistols. I was under the impression for some reason, and maybe it was for the sake of economy of skill points, that chaos burst and shadow shot were either/or skills to shoot for. I am glad to see they are both viable, guess I didn't realize one was better for the inside maps and the other for the outside maps. I am sure I will enjoy this build a lot more than the glaive builds.
  • If you're feeling particularly ballsy, you can actually switch over to sword and shield and fight in melee. The buffs/debuffs stack up something fierce. I just alt-tabbed away from a level 86-95 dungeon on Normal with a level 70 Outlander using mostly melee attacks just to see if it works. So far, so good. :)
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • H2OH2O Posts: 123
    So basically spam chaos burst and shadow mainly...

    I played outlander with crossbow with just using shadow burst + venomous hail...

    I find playing this type of build repeptiviee?
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    H2O wrote:
    I find playing this type of build repeptiviee?
    This sentence seems to be going along fine until it gets to the last word and punctuation, and then it just goes bonkers. Was this supposed to be a question when you started it?

    Anyway, if you think three attack skills plus a viable autoattack is "repeptiviee" then I suggest never trying a Focus Outlander.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • H2OH2O Posts: 123
    I just thought dual akimbo pistol had a different play style..
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    Different from what?
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    Empyrean wrote:
    Different from what?
    I believe he was trying to say that akimbo have different playstyle compared to 2-h weapons like bow/xbow/shotgun. It seems I have sharpened my mind reading ability, LOL.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    A viable guess, but I don't like to cater to people who assume I'm a telepath. It's not as bad as the people who abbreviate everything like they're texting while trapped inside an overturned car that will explode any second, but I get irked fairly easily.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • xylonezxylonez Posts: 1,293
    Empyrean wrote:
    A viable guess, but I don't like to cater to people who assume I'm a telepath. It's not as bad as the people who abbreviate everything like they're texting while trapped inside an overturned car that will explode any second, but I get irked fairly easily.
    So true. I don't know why is it so hard for some people to type correctly or finishes their sentences without too much ambiguity.
    "First player in the world that gets 133 skill points for some unknown reason"
  • How would you compare this build against the shotgonne one? More versatile or less? I tried shadow shot but it seems to be too random.. how does Chaos burst fare in open ground, does it lose all the damage potential or it can ricochet off ground or rocks - what I am saying, can it be used as a pure option, because it obviously benefits from the same poisoned condition it applies.
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    How would you compare this build against the shotgonne one? More versatile or less? I tried shadow shot but it seems to be too random.. how does Chaos burst fare in open ground, does it lose all the damage potential or it can ricochet off ground or rocks - what I am saying, can it be used as a pure option, because it obviously benefits from the same poisoned condition it applies.
    I prefer the shotgun build, personally. Chaos Burst and Shadowshot each have their place where they work, but Venomous Hail with a shotgun always works.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • would like to see this adjusted to the latest patch (rapid fire and venomous hail changes) or does the shootylander build simply become the akimbo build?
  • fynxfynx Posts: 1
    would like to see this adjusted to the latest patch (rapid fire and venomous hail changes)

    yeah me too, i'm really interested in a physical damage type outlander (fast attack speed and decent damage + decent skills)
    i've been trying out stuff on several characters to see which works with what better.
  • PyrosEienPyrosEien Posts: 269
    Well with Rapid Fire change, it's pretty much superior to either Shadow Shot or Chaos Bolt in most cases I think, however it comes with the issue of severely limiting your range before lvl 40 since before 10points in Rapid Fire, it's pretty short range.
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    Previously, armor degrading effects weren't applying properly. Now they are. This means that skills like Rapid Fire, or fast attacking weapons that reduce armor on hit are worth looking into.

    In light of the recent changes, chaos Burst and Shadowshot are out; Rapid Fire is better. The range **** until you're level 40, but you can autoattack for more distance; more distance as your ranks in Long Range Mastery increase. Rather than try to get a little of everything, I've simplified the build somewhat. So here it is:

    Rapid Fire - 10
    Rune Vault - 1
    Venomous Hail - 10
    Long Range Mastery - 15
    Akimbo - 15
    Glaive Sweep - 1
    Bramble Wall - 1
    Dodge Mastery - 15
    Share the Wealth - 15
    Blade Pact - 15
    Repulsion Hex - 10
    Stone Pact - 15
    Extra points - 9

    The extra nine points can make a big difference in how you play the build. You can put them into Venomous Hail for more damage and a shield-break effect, but this does make the spell cost more (58 instead of 45). You could put four more points into Rune Vault, raising the cost from 9 to 12 (negligible increase) but letting your health/mana steal trigger off of it (possibly a big deal if you have a mana-stealing weapon). If you cast Brambles and jump away from it, you'll hit multiple sections. With a decent amount of mana steal, you can fill your bar in one go. You could put points into Shadowmantle if you're into that, or push your Repulsion Hex to 15 if you want to be absolutely sure about that. Could put a point into Tangling Shot if you like, or Cursed Daggers; both decent options. The changes murdered shotgun builds, but they were nothing but a buff for us, so the akimbo pistol build is probably better than the shotgun build, now.

    Better than both is Pistol and Shield, though. If you want to take that route, drop the 15 points from Akimbo and put them wherever you like. If you take Venomous Hail to 15 and with some of the extra points and shift the 15 from Akimbo over into Master of the Elements, you're set from there.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • KhoiKhoi Posts: 4
    So if I were wanting to incorporate poison damage into this would it be better to follow something similar to the shotgun build, or rather is that best kept to a glaive build?
  • EmpyreanEmpyrean Posts: 641
    Move the 15 from Akimbo into Master of the Elements. Of your 9 spare points, put 5 into Venomous Hail (raising it to 15) and the other four into Poison Burst. Use a pistol and shield.

    I'd generally stick with physical attacks for the most part, though. The armor reduction from Blade Pact is only good for physical attacks, although Rapid Fire depletes everything.
    Trust me, I've checked.
  • KhoiKhoi Posts: 4
    Thanks for the information, you're very informative and straight to the point. I'll be interested to see how this plays.
  • GhostlightXGhostlightX Posts: 413
    edited October 2012
    Unless you have gear with massive HP on it, you will not get far in NG+/Elite with no points in Vitality. You will get one-shotted from max range constantly. I found the magic number was 80 Vit with 3500 HP. That is enough to prevent one-shotting from all but the hardest-hitting bosses in NG+/Elite. I suspect it will be higher in NG++ and beyond. The bottom line is as long as you can take a hit and not die you are fine (as long as you notice in time ofc). This is not a L2P issue, take bow-weilding rats - they fire instantly the moment they appear, and you cannot avoid their shots.

    P.S. I do not mean put 80 points in Vitality, I mean put enough points to make your Vitality = 80.

    My one other criticism would be....to many active Skills (10).
  • TommyReslinTommyReslin Posts: 278
    edited October 2012
    Unless you have gear with massive HP on it, you will not get far in NG+/Elite with no points in Vitality. You will get one-shotted from max range constantly. I found the magic number was 80 Vit with 3500 HP. That is enough to prevent one-shotting from all but the hardest-hitting bosses in NG+/Elite. I suspect it will be higher in NG++ and beyond. The bottom line is as long as you can take a hit and not die you are fine (as long as you notice in time ofc). This is not a L2P issue, take bow-weilding rats - they fire instantly the moment they appear, and you cannot avoid their shots.

    P.S. I do not mean put 80 points in Vitality, I mean put enough points to make your Vitality = 80.

    You definitely don't need 80 points in vitality. I don't in elite and I do fine. Here's how I handle the problem... First all the best defense is to not get hit. We have enough tools at our disposal to perform this rather adequately. Not to mention when you get to the later game you can enchant the gear you really like for strength. Sometimes you end up with some vit alongside the strength boost after enchanting/disenchanting. This can easily get you to hit the 80 mark or even the 109 dexterity mark if you're patient enough. You can also get skulls that gives you 1540 hp per slot. This outperforms vitality big time. Just my two cents.
    Check out the Shooty Summoner here!
  • How would you compare this build against the shotgonne one? .

    After yesterday's patch, the SG build no longer exists. All of the reasons for favouring a Shotgun are gone.
  • Unless you have gear with massive HP on it, you will not get far in NG+/Elite with no points in Vitality. You will get one-shotted from max range constantly. I found the magic number was 80 Vit with 3500 HP. That is enough to prevent one-shotting from all but the hardest-hitting bosses in NG+/Elite. I suspect it will be higher in NG++ and beyond. The bottom line is as long as you can take a hit and not die you are fine (as long as you notice in time ofc). This is not a L2P issue, take bow-weilding rats - they fire instantly the moment they appear, and you cannot avoid their shots.

    P.S. I do not mean put 80 points in Vitality, I mean put enough points to make your Vitality = 80.

    You definitely don't need 80 points in vitality. I don't in elite and I do fine. Here's how I handle the problem... First all the best defense is to not get hit. We have enough tools at our disposal to perform this rather adequately. Not to mention when you get to the later game you can enchant the gear you really like for strength. Sometimes you end up with some vit alongside the strength boost after enchanting/disenchanting. This can easily get you to hit the 80 mark or even the 109 dexterity mark if you're patient enough. You can also get skulls that gives you 1500 hp per slot. This outperforms vitality big time. Just my two cents.


    You definately do. As I said, you get one-shotted and you cannot avoid it, so your best defence of not getting hit does not apply. Your damage reflect skills are no always up. Again I stress this is with enemy attacks that are drawn as a simple line rather than full animation (eg rat men with bows, gun sentries just before Artificer) you CANNOT avoid them. Also notice I said you need this IF you do not have enough HP. This is why I said the magic number was 80 Vit IF you have 3500 HP as I have. No idea what it would be if you had more HP than this but it would surely be less. It just seems a bit dodgy to suggest a build that adds no points in Vitality and thus will get people one-shotted constantly if their gear is lacking / normal.
  • I would like to qualify what I said above with the fact that I have installed the mod that increases enemy draw range, and prevents enemies fading out of existance near the screen edge such that you cannot hit them (and vice versa). To my mind this mod is essential as it make TL2 the game it should be, and I highly recommend it to everyone. However with that mod, the one-shotting I am talking about will come from much further away than you are used to, even from offscreen enemies you have not seen yet.
  • Unless you have gear with massive HP on it, you will not get far in NG+/Elite with no points in Vitality. You will get one-shotted from max range constantly. I found the magic number was 80 Vit with 3500 HP. That is enough to prevent one-shotting from all but the hardest-hitting bosses in NG+/Elite. I suspect it will be higher in NG++ and beyond. The bottom line is as long as you can take a hit and not die you are fine (as long as you notice in time ofc). This is not a L2P issue, take bow-weilding rats - they fire instantly the moment they appear, and you cannot avoid their shots.

    P.S. I do not mean put 80 points in Vitality, I mean put enough points to make your Vitality = 80.

    You definitely don't need 80 points in vitality. I don't in elite and I do fine. Here's how I handle the problem... First all the best defense is to not get hit. We have enough tools at our disposal to perform this rather adequately. Not to mention when you get to the later game you can enchant the gear you really like for strength. Sometimes you end up with some vit alongside the strength boost after enchanting/disenchanting. This can easily get you to hit the 80 mark or even the 109 dexterity mark if you're patient enough. You can also get skulls that gives you 1500 hp per slot. This outperforms vitality big time. Just my two cents.


    You definately do as I said. You get one-shotted and you cannot avoid it, so your best defence of not getting hit does not apply. Again I stress this is with enemy attacks that are drawn as a simple line rather than full animation (eg rat men with bows, gun sentries just before Artificer) you CANNOT avoid them. Also notice I said you need this IF you do not have enough HP. This is why I said the magic number was 80 Vit IF you have 3500 HP as I have. No idea what it would be if you had more HP than this but it would surely be less. It just seems a bit dodgy to suggest a build that adds no points in Vitality and thus will get people one-shotted constantly if their gear is lacking / normal.

    I prefer simply grinding for gear. Also most damage is avoidable even the ratmen's attacks. As mentioned you can find vitality on gear or even get vitality through enchants without putting a single point in it. The problem is that 80 vit only provides just a bit over 200 hp. That's barely anything at all. You certainly can get more from hp gear. What level are you?

    Ah, I see. I am basing this off vanilla. Still, as much as people loathe this game I did play D3 as a demon hunter with 9000 hp and defeated inferno with it. Off screen deaths were common. Especially from Overlord's charge, the angel's charge, Reflect Damage affix, and some wonky combat mechanics. This is a much different game of course but damage is more avoidable in this one and we have more tools than the demon hunter has in that game. I typically play twitchy Shoot, move, shoot move, as I move across the screen but I do agree with one thing. I try to avoid being one shot. I aim to make it two or three shot if possible. Most enemies still kill me in one blow however.

    Note that dodge is great mitigation.
    Check out the Shooty Summoner here!
  • Which one is more viable, akimbo or pistol with shield?
  • The problem is that 80 vit only provides just a bit over 200 hp. That's barely anything at all. You certainly can get more from hp gear. What level are you?

    I assumed it was the Armour bonus from the Vit that was making the difference, not the 200 HP. I am level 61 but I admit I am trapped in a few pieces of equipment that are very low level (so will not take decent gems), and low armour, but have stats on them that are just so good you cannot replace them (+20% All Damage in my case). I think this could be typical. Either way, if 80 Vit is letting me avoid one-shotting while keeping +40% All Damage, I'm happy with that.
  • Dziadzior wrote:
    Which one is more viable, akimbo or pistol with shield?

    Well I went dual pistols because

    a) I had a ton of gear and gems that boosts All Damage when dual-weilding.
    b) I have +60% Execute chance
    c) I have a pair of pistols with good proc-on-hit effects

    I guess it depends on your gear and how much you feel you need a shield to survive.
  • Dziadzior wrote:
    Which one is more viable, akimbo or pistol with shield?

    Well I went dual pistols because

    a) I had a ton of gear and gems that boosts All Damage when dual-weilding.
    b) I have +60% Execute chance
    c) I have a pair of pistols with good proc-on-hit effects

    I guess it depends on your gear and how much you feel you need a shield to survive.

    The thing is I don't really like the idea of outlander with a shield. What stats on armor would you recommend me to equip for akimbo build ? I'm planning to start with veteran.
  • The best offensive stat for Akimbo is probably "+x% All Damage" but that is rare as ****. Next would probably be "+x% to All Damage when dual weilding". It's much more common, especially in armour gems. Then you have "+x% Attack Speed" as well.

    Having said that "+x% to Execute" could be great, it's hard to work that one out.
  • The best offensive stat for Akimbo is probably "+x% All Damage" but that is rare as ****. Next would probably be "+x% to All Damage when dual weilding". It's much more common, especially in armour gems. Then you have "+x% Attack Speed" as well.

    Having said that "+x% to Execute" could be great, it's hard to work that one out.
    Given that I'm not adding any points to vitality, should I as well equip those +health?
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