HCE only players, who want a legit experience.

discidiumdiscidium Posts: 65
edited October 2012 in TL2 Hardcore Mode
So, as I've seen it in this community, it'd seem like this type is somewhat of a minority.

But I imagine there has to be a few people out there that are concerned with a legitimate HCE gameplay experience.

What has been talked about is true, you can stack all damage reduction ember until you have 100% DR for everything, and yes it does make you invulnerable to most things.

I haven't done it, but I am a level 70 engineer now, and it does make me feel concerned, I am close to 60% DR and I am able to continue stacking, but now it's become something I question if I will do.

As anyone who has played **** elite past act 2 knows, damage can be anywhere from nothing to a 1 shot, traps in the floor can be the most serious threat you'll face for days. Just the other night, one of the other members of the trio I've been playing with, experienced traps in the mapworks tileset for the first time, and it 1shot him. I can't confirm his exact hp or resistances, but they were substantial, he was level 76, and was doing most of the tanking, as I was a lower level.

So where do you draw the line? Most people will inevitably stack this DR and farm high level uniques//legendaries with what is pretty much invincibility, and since there is no ladder, or way to reset the "economy" all of these items will remain in the game and be traded out and flooded down to people who haven't really earned them. It has already been shown that people can duplicate items & restore dead characters. Many would argue that runic doesn't intend to moderate the society or cheating or that it doesn't matter if people are having fun.

But for me, mystery is what makes a game good, challenging difficult content and progressing through it whether solo or as a team, whether via your own successful spec and itemization or with the help of good friends playing together with team-work, what really makes it feel like it matters is to reach something a lot of people haven't been able to, or to have special items that most of the rest of the players don't. So while maybe I'm the only player that thinks this way, I find myself wondering how long the game will last for me.

I think most of us would agree that torchlight2 is the best thing happening in the action RPG genre right now, and pretty much since diablo2, outside of path of exile which is still in beta. I want to be able to continue to enjoy this game. I hope runic changes the way all damage reduced by % embers work soon, to make them scale down as content gets harder or w/e they may have to do. I really hope that would qualify as something they will work on.

Anyhow, hopefully not all of you just tl;dr this. Been enjoying the game, trying to experience the fun with other people.

-Lethe level 70 engineer-


  • Who keeps you from enjoying the game but yourself?
    There is no one who can change your personal fun with your personal play-style in the first place.
    And from my experience in Multiplayer, especially in open HC-Games (Veteran), there are 95% friendly and decent people, even in open games. Seriously, I play daily and have yet to meet my first duper or even only someone who does not talk.

    And from what I read out of your post (no offence):
    You are not looking for something special that no one else has in the first place, you are looking for this special thing to show it off in comparison/competition to others.
    Why would you care at all if not because of this?
    That's fine, and lots of players will agree, me as well to a certain degree, but - that's not exactly Torchlight. And never was. And hopefully never will be.

    Don't let your personal fun be dependend on what others do.
    Stop seeking. That which is, is. Stop and see.
  • I have played a lot and from my experience those after a 'legitimate hc experience ' are the vast majority.

    Just play and enjoy the game as you like, if you are concerned about the trickle down of op items turning into a flood then don't use them.

    The joy for me in this game is - watching my character progress, and, gearing myself up whilst putting aside items for when I inevitably have to restart.
    By gearing myself up I mean using stuff I find, finding stuff that is useful for me. Something that just isn't feasible in the other game of this type I played (hi 200k unbuffed dps monk whose sole find is a belt)
  • entrancedentranced Posts: 224
    TBH, for EHC-only type players, i find it is mostly people that are looking for a "legit" experience. It's the same with HC in D3 and etc. People trying to challenge themselves to the maximum possible extent, generally aren't trying to cheapen the experience, since that defeats the entire purpose. So i definitely wouldn't call it a minority, but rather a large majority.

    People that want to take extreme shortcuts, and etc., usually stick to SC, not liking the extreme punishment of permadeath (since it's counter to their goals/ideals). Some of those looking for status/recognition will find themselves in EHC-only, but in a moddable game looking for status is all but meaningless, since we can never tell who's "cheating".

    I'm guessing your impression is due to a vocal few who are pushing arguably "non-legit" strategies, e.g. stacking Eyes of Grell. It's a fine line between what is and isn't legit, and it's to each to decide for themselves what is anyway. I'm kind of indifferent personally, since they aren't using the console or anything, it's all within the parameters of the game. In any case, someone said they are fixing it next patch.
    discidium wrote:
    It has already been shown that people can duplicate items & restore dead characters.
    This is nothing new in the TL-dev philosophy. There is absolutely no point whatsoever worrying about this sort of thing. At the end of the day, only you know for yourself whether you're "legit" (whatever that is), and you can only adhere to your own standards.

    In a fully moddable game, clearly, you have to set your own challenge parameters. I find that entirely satisfying. It certainly makes it hard to compete and compare yourself to others outside of a small group, but there are other games for that. In this one, the fun is [currently] playing the unmodded game, and [soon] in playing with mods that are appealing to you.
    EHC: Zoolander I/II/III/IV - clvl:9/13/23/18 - Outlander (summoner)
  • DrMonkeeDrMonkee Posts: 117
    I'll say this: Eyes of Grell were put in the game purposefully, as was the ability to repeat boss fights. Thus, it is intended to stack these gems if the player wants.

    Traps as you said ignores all damage reduction which is one way to make an "invincible character" die.

    The other thing is some enemies debuff or ignore damage reduction, which is another built in mechanism to combat someone who has farmed Eyes of Grell.

    The developers knew very well that some classes in Elite will require high damage reduction to survive. The engineer has a lot of built in damage reduction from gear (a lot of +10% pieces) and many skills that supplement damage reduction.

    Point is, the game is working as intended and there's no reason to nerf any gems or damage reduction as there are still plenty of ways to die.

    As for people reviving their **** characters, that's just plain cheating.
    "If it takes 2 steps back to take 1 step forward, may as well just turn around and take 3 steps forward"
  • Runic has already said they are capping the 100% ADR% ember in the next patch, so clearly the game wasn't working as intended.

    Traps one shotting people regardless of mitigation or HP is working as intended? ......nah bro. You can play to close to the level cap then go to the luminous arena in newgame+ or beyond in HCE and get 1 shot there by the simplest mistake. That's not fun gameplay, that's not challenging. If they were a lot worse and close to a oneshot I'd probably be fine with it. But a complete one shot even when you are doing nothing but getting defensive stats? Can't really agree with that, even IF I saw a runic dev post that it is working as intended.

    I really disagree that most of the community has the same perspective as me, largely what I see around here is people saying: "Oh stop "complaining" enjoy it as is or go elsewhere."

    Seriously? I love this game, it's awesome. I don't want to support any fire and forget mentality, I want to be a part of the community, I want to provide runic with feedback.
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