Highest damaging spell: FROST VI

IcysliceoficeIcysliceofice Posts: 14
edited April 2013 in Embermage Discussions
I'm surprised there is no thread on this already, highest damage per cast + 100% freeze CC.

it does 36-102 at level 1, but at rank VI, it does 17864-53592! BASE damage over 10 seconds with 100% freeze for 11 seconds. With hailstorm and 500% Ice damage I'm ticking from 10-20,000 damage every 0.5 seconds without staff mastery, and up to 25,000 x 22(UP TO half a million damage per cast, provided hailstorm defbuff stays on) ticks with staff mastery. You can even have your pet learn this spell.

The downside is that its damage disparity is high and the cooldown is 10 seconds. but that doesn't mean you can't use it every 10 seconds for a nice CC and dot effect.

Anyone in for some more testing and discussion :).

Comments

  • OdirOdir Posts: 80
    edited October 2012
    Concidering you read my guide, you know that im a frostnerd and i will test this immediatly :D it would make boss fights in elite hc ng++++ soooo much easier. ill give it a try

    Edit:

    So ive tested it, and its not worth it losing another spell in my opinion, i could also bring it up to 25k every 0.5 seconds with hailstorm boon ele and mastery that means it would do 550k damage over 11 seconds, thats what 2 frostwaves do in 1.x seconds concidering dervish and gcd. i would go with every other spell anyday. ofcause it is a "cast one time and forget about it" spell that enhances kiting capabilities during boss fights, and you could easy kite every boss to death with this spell alone, but my ideal startup is Dervish, Elemental Overload, Elemental Protection and Adventurer for farming purposes. One day when im Best in Slot equipped i would consider it again since i think you could push Frost VI to a 50k tick which would mean 1.1 Million damage over 11 seconds. then i concider it again.

    Screen of damage Test on Wraith Boss in Dbastion lvl 105 elite hc ng++++ :

    bmbq392g.jpg
    Odir - lvl 100 hc elite RiP -> Frostmage Build by me
    Heisenberg - lvl 100 hc elite -> Tank Summon Engi Video + Thoughts by me
    Shaman - lvl 100 sc elite -> Wolfshaman of the North Build by me
  • The spell has a exploding impact aoe, decent cast animation and missile speed.

    Main thing is that it is more accurate, than icy blast, frostwave, shocking orbs and shockbolts. You also only have to apply 1 hit for effect, instead of having to stand close for a shotgun with icyblast, or the needing wall requirements for frostwave.

    better to use in general, but at the same time, it would only really benefit hitting champs/bosses that last long >10 seconds.

    I've also tried other spells, and there are some niche ones such as bee swarm but none other does damage as effective, the closest one being Roller VI, and the base damage to that is only 5000.
  • OdirOdir Posts: 80
    Edit: Updated my other post, see there
    Odir - lvl 100 hc elite RiP -> Frostmage Build by me
    Heisenberg - lvl 100 hc elite -> Tank Summon Engi Video + Thoughts by me
    Shaman - lvl 100 sc elite -> Wolfshaman of the North Build by me
  • I agree with most of what you said about the spell. but with some differences.

    I find that it is more useful as a utility spell, and that it is a FAR more useful version of thunder locus and you use it as a High damage Dot.

    Whilst I agree with you that the cast opportunity could be used for frostwave, these are my considerations

    1- Frost is a 100% chance to freeze, u cast that, then a hailstorm and it would more likely proc frost brand. the 92% chance to freeze compared to 100% chance is a distinct difference here.
    2- it is more accurate than frostwave, and has less requirement for positioning
    3- it has a less cast time than frostwave to begin with, with shift que casting, I am not losing the casting opportunity for 2 frostwave, but less than 1. and that single cast will do more damage than 2 well positioned frostwaves
    4- Fire and forget goodness, you are not casting frostwaves when you are running, frost phasing or casting ice prison, this is a dot that stays on the target.
    5- the pet can still cast this and be useful

    I am running with 100% CR with 2x dervish on my spell bars with elemental overload. This is the reason why I value casting times as opportunity.
  • OdirOdir Posts: 80
    I agree with most of what you said about the spell. but with some differences.

    I find that it is more useful as a utility spell, and that it is a FAR more useful version of thunder locus and you use it as a High damage Dot.

    Whilst I agree with you that the cast opportunity could be used for frostwave, these are my considerations

    1- Frost is a 100% chance to freeze, u cast that, then a hailstorm and it would more likely proc frost brand. the 92% chance to freeze compared to 100% chance is a distinct difference here.
    2- it is more accurate than frostwave, and has less requirement for positioning
    3- it has a less cast time than frostwave to begin with, with shift que casting, I am not losing the casting opportunity for 2 frostwave, but less than 1. and that single cast will do more damage than 2 well positioned frostwaves
    4- Fire and forget goodness, you are not casting frostwaves when you are running, frost phasing or casting ice prison, this is a dot that stays on the target.
    5- the pet can still cast this and be useful

    I am running with 100% CR with 2x dervish on my spell bars with elemental overload. This is the reason why I value casting times as opportunity.

    First lets agree that Frost (if it has its useability) is only good for Boss/Champ fights that would last a full duration.

    1. 8% Difference is not that big, concidering frostwaves arcs have a % to freeze for every hit, i personally dont care about the 8% alone
    2. more accurate yes, but it requires way more positioning, frost wave has 5 waves with greater range, considering my simmulation everytime you blind cast it one of those waves will hit. and the aoe is f* huge...
    3. ha wrong. frost VI has more cast time, even with dervish, try it out, move around and while moving cast Frost VI and then try it with Frost Wave, it requires 2x the immobility then a frost wave...
    4. I totally agree on that one. But currently not worth alone for that reason in my opinion
    5. havent tested pet scaling of damage, so i dont know anything about that immo if pet spell dmg scales. But I find summons more usefull. It rly comes down to preference here

    I did various simulations on a dummy with console combat log. Let me explain the scenario I established my simulation arround. Over 11 Seconds I will start the Fight Pre-Buffed (As I start all my bossfights) with Elemental Boon, Elemental Overload VI, Dervish VI. First I started debuffing with hailstorm, i did not concider applying staff mastery debuff to stay at maximum range. Then I follow with one frost wave, and start my kite rotation with ice prison-> move -> frostwave . I was able to do this 5 times in 11 secons so its a total of 6 Frost Waves I was able to cast. At least one wave hit every time, sometimes more.

    These are the Numbers I got (if needed i can provide the whole combat log):

    72597,190830,57385,65352,42522,82250,22962,189841,22417,48961,24636,124113,23954,80376,39949,62551 that makes a Total of 1,150,696 Damage over 11 Seconds at max range not able to bounce those waves, so the worst case scenario if you want.
    Lets take it that we precast Frost VI and get that extra 550,000 Damage, That would be a Total of 1,700,696 Damage over 12 Seconds (counting a Frost VI 1 seconds dervish cast).

    Conclusion: Yes its a big boost about 48% extra damage for one single cast in that simulation and situation, but often I have a couple of seconds during boss fights where i can spam 3-4 waves after another hitting almost all of those 5 waves multiple times. And thats what frost wave is all about, that damage will be far off and the %extra damage Frost VI will give will shrink to no tolerance.
    You can always watch my frostwave damage test video to see what a few seconds of frostwave spamm can bring to the table, even without gear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAIA0LukiWE
    my highest frostwave crit today is more than 400k (can be seen in my guide here: http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=36991)

    I dont deny that Frost VI has it purpose but until im not nearly Best in Slot equiped (Currently about 60%) i will not give up Dervish, Elemental Overload, Elemental Protection and Adventurer yet. One day of course, but not now.
    Odir - lvl 100 hc elite RiP -> Frostmage Build by me
    Heisenberg - lvl 100 hc elite -> Tank Summon Engi Video + Thoughts by me
    Shaman - lvl 100 sc elite -> Wolfshaman of the North Build by me
  • MayoraMayora Posts: 388
    So... to summarize your conclusion...

    Frost VI gives a 50% boost to your damage at a range where Frost Wave isn't as effective, covering a major Frost Mage weakness of needing to be standing close to a target for maximum output, and allowing you to kite bosses with powerful close range skills a lot easier.

    But it's not worth it, yet.

    !?!?!

    I mean, sure, you may be hitting 400k when standing right next to things, but 1.7 million damage instead of 1.1 million damage at a range where I DON'T get mauled by a single attack sounds like a fantastic option to me. I mean, heck, it's a frost mage sniping option. No other frost spell can claim to do that (Hailstorm i guess), and it actually manages to synergize with Hailstorm since it's a 10 second DoT move.

    It's like picking an automatic shotgun and refusing to use the single shot Sniper Rifle, which the game allows you to equip at the same time.

    Edit: How is it better than Adventuring!? You're clearly level 100 too!
  • OdirOdir Posts: 80
    Mayora wrote:
    So... to summarize your conclusion...

    Frost VI gives a 50% boost to your damage at a range where Frost Wave isn't as effective, covering a major Frost Mage weakness of needing to be standing close to a target for maximum output, and allowing you to kite bosses with powerful close range skills a lot easier.

    But it's not worth it, yet.

    !?!?!

    I mean, sure, you may be hitting 400k when standing right next to things, but 1.7 million damage instead of 1.1 million damage at a range where I DON'T get mauled by a single attack sounds like a fantastic option to me. I mean, heck, it's a frost mage sniping option. No other frost spell can claim to do that (Hailstorm i guess), and it actually manages to synergize with Hailstorm since it's a 10 second DoT move.

    It's like picking an automatic shotgun and refusing to use the single shot Sniper Rifle, which the game allows you to equip at the same time.

    Edit: How is it better than Adventuring!? You're clearly level 100 too!

    You clearly didnt read it well, or i did not write it well, idc.

    1.7 to 1.1 in a worst case scenario at max range. And yes im lvl 100 and yes i do run adventuring bcause of +mf to farm eq, but in most cases i can spamm frostwave more then a couple of times at boss/champ encounters and therefore the 48% become almost neglected. If your gear/build setup doesnt allow you to stand still for 2-3 seconds (e.g. ice prison shield) and you have to kite like theres no tommorow, hence the wortst case scenario, then yes its a valid option to those who need it or meet the fresh level req of that spell. but its not for me, because i favor those +mf to get BiS over some extra dmg i dont need so extem uber badly, and hence my expression: One day of course, but not now.
    Odir - lvl 100 hc elite RiP -> Frostmage Build by me
    Heisenberg - lvl 100 hc elite -> Tank Summon Engi Video + Thoughts by me
    Shaman - lvl 100 sc elite -> Wolfshaman of the North Build by me
  • MayoraMayora Posts: 388
    But adventuring doesn't give Magic find.

    Treasure Hunter gives Magic find

    Adventuring is +% Exp and +% Fame.
  • OdirOdir Posts: 80
    Mayora wrote:
    But adventuring doesn't give Magic find.

    Treasure Hunter gives Magic find

    Adventuring is +% Exp and +% Fame.

    Sry my mistake :D happens if u are awake for 30h o_O
    Odir - lvl 100 hc elite RiP -> Frostmage Build by me
    Heisenberg - lvl 100 hc elite -> Tank Summon Engi Video + Thoughts by me
    Shaman - lvl 100 sc elite -> Wolfshaman of the North Build by me
  • I actually find the 100% chance to freeze assuring. From my own PVP experience, 98% as compared to 100% is a distinct difference upon decision making. The biggest issue i have with the spell is its rather big damage range. it could POTENTIALLY deal massive dps, or it could be slightly underwhelming.

    Yes, thread necro, I'm unsure if previous posters are still around :(
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    better to use in general, but at the same time, it would only really benefit hitting champs/bosses that last long >10 seconds.

    If bosses take more than 10 seconds as an embermage at high levels your build is likely rather poor. If a champ takes that long your build is terrible.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • NimNim Posts: 11
    Nauzhror wrote:
    better to use in general, but at the same time, it would only really benefit hitting champs/bosses that last long >10 seconds.

    If bosses take more than 10 seconds as an embermage at high levels your build is likely rather poor. If a champ takes that long your build is terrible.

    Yep.

    The 199 Wraith lord takes about five seconds. Seven if I have to frost phase and potion.
  • hmmm, very good points raised. Guess i'll move frost off my skill bar.
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