Destroyer and Ordrak

mafifermafifer Posts: 23
edited December 2009 in Destroyer Discussions
Ok, so I completed the game for the first time last evening on my destroyer. I did not get killed in the fight but I am wondering if the final fight is supposed to like....take some time? It all could have very well been my build/gear, but the fight went on for 10-12 minutes and I had to port out once because I ran completely dry of pots. My destroyer was level 34, duel wielding focusing on Slash, Titan Stomp, and Seismic Burst as my attacking skills. Slash was bound to left key and SB was bound to right, I used TS whenever rushed by the skellies so that I could change position and repeat TS until they died or disappeared. I did not find the fight overly difficult, just wondering if it took that long for others? My weapons had both roughly 450-550 dps and I had duel wielding skill maxed.

Comments

  • MichaelMichael Posts: 263
    What difficulty did you play it on?

    So far I've only fought him on normal with my alchie summoner, so I don't know how my destroyer will handle him yet (leveling him up now). But my summoner took him down pretty quick in normal (23 minions = ownage, hehe).
  • Michael wrote:
    What difficulty did you play it on?

    So far I've only fought him on normal with my alchie summoner, so I don't know how my destroyer will handle him yet (leveling him up now). But my summoner took him down pretty quick in normal (23 minions = ownage, hehe).

    I was playing on normal as well. I am open to believing it could have been my skill choices/gearing frankly because it was my first toon and I was just kinda mish-mashing stuff together, just want to know if others took a while to defeat him as a destroyer. I did retire the toon, and am creating a sword and board destroyer out of him weilding a handed down unique mace that I got from the kill.
  • VHHC Ordrak took me 45minutes to down... But I went full tank no dps. Nvr left battle and used 74 potions. Hero is the opposite as he went the pure damage route and his kill is 3 minutes'ish and his speed run ordrak is 9minutes.
    Ergoproxy - Lvl 33 VHHC Melle Tanking Destroyer...
    3300 life / 300+ all res / .5-1k+damage absorb / 50% base block
    Current Floor: Ordrak Down
    Ill see your unstoppable force and raise you an immovable object.
    HCHC Mode Active: No enchanting ever! No Mods!
  • TwitchTwitch Posts: 32
    First time on normal with and alchemist focusing on ember lance it took me about 20 minutes and 8-ish deaths to take him down. He's tough, but if you build for pure, raw damage he can go down very quickly even at higher difficulties. I have a VH destroyer (non-HC, I know, I'm a lesser man) that took him down in 4 casts of frost shield, and a vanq on hard that got took him down in about 5 minutes.

    I think the hump to get over is just encountering him for the first time. In my experience re: normal, you've been able to kill mostly everything with one skill that you've maxed or a couple skills that you've thrown a handful of points in here or there, or that you upgraded when you thought you need to. Ordrak comes as a little bit of a shock because he's probably the equivalent to 2-3 levels of mobs combined into a single monster - with the hp from **** and the firepower to back it up. It's actually one of the things I liked most about completing the game the first time. And now you at least know what you're building towards.
  • i was disapointed that he was the last boss :(
    he took me 5 min on vh hc with lvl 34 with dual wield destroyer !used less then 10 healpots maybe i was 2 high lvl 4 him
    btw can some 1 pls tell me where i can find the screenshots i made on my computer .
    i searched my whole computer but cant find them .where does the game put them ?
  • you'll have to go into your program files for Torchlight and it'll be in the folder app.data, runic games, then screenshots :)
    "Never Compromise..even in the face of Armageddon"
  • I actually killed him less than 20 seconds :) I used 2 melee weapons with "fastest attack speed". I also used the increase attack speed spell, (forgot the name, but the one with a tornado symbol) and then simply use Devastate.
  • RMJRMJ Posts: 40
    Yeah i had the same, i could crush anything in my path with the uber spectral echo, which is easly the best attack Destroyer has in that tree. But Ordrak very hard at level 32, took 40-50min.

    So i do think some people are dreaming or there are some major unbalacing in game, some of us cant kill all mobs with skills in 1-2hits and take 40min on ordrak, and then other people can kill him in 3min ? what is going on ?

    Spectral echo can stack up to 2 times it seems so 160% dmg beyond you weapon dmg, plus you can steal mana and hp, and just trash anything in sight AOE boom dead. but not ordrak. :oops:

    Sounds like it might be worth getting Devastate just for ordrak then repecing again :) and ofc fastest weapon speed is a must.

    Btw is there really no more bosses in the socalled endless dungeon ? thats really a pity if not :( had hope for some random crazy bosses.
  • TwitchTwitch Posts: 32
    Re: devastate and quick takedowns, I think that the advantage to it is the reliance on your dps (136% when maxed), and the fact that you can "synergize" it with martial weapon mastery and dual-wielding to crank up some awesome damage output very quickly. I never put more than 1 point into spectral echo so I can't safely comment on its effects late-game/ordrak, but I imagine that the trouble you're running into probably amounts to the huge difference in damage it takes to take out your average mob and the damage it takes to bring down ordrak in under 3 minutes. I think that on very hard, you only need about 2-3k damage to 1-hit your average black palace mob, but you won't see Ordrak's health start dropping quickly until you're consistently hitting him for 11-13k damage/sec consistently (which you can do with two 500-ish dps weapons, a 2:1 strength/defense investment ratio, maxed devastate, dual-wield, crit, and martial weapons mastery pretty easily). That's a big difference, imo, and I don't know how quickly you get to that point with spectral echo.

    As a caveat, I could very well be wrong with the numbers I've stated here - it's late and I'm trying to recall this stuff as best I can off the top of my head.

    EDIT: forgot crit. Maxed crit is very important. Those 11-13k hits - at least for me - were all crits.
  • UweUwe Posts: 96
    lol with my van quisher i killed him in 5 minutes and used only mana pots... dervish + aimed shot lol

    in hard difficulty =/ too bad it was on very hard...anwyyas, it was lvl 30
  • merciusmercius Posts: 129
    On Hard, on my destro, using Haste 5, Devastate, and summon flaming sword 5, I took him out in about 4 min. I have some nice gear though.
    Good grades won't get me a mace shaped like a squid eating an anchor.
    Mythos-LilSwordsman and Liltinker
    Torchlight-Kronk-Level 100 Destroyer
  • VenomVenom Posts: 52
    I just beat Ordrak this morning on my dual wield VH Destroyer. Took me less than 5 minutes. I did die a couple of times because I was getting too cocky and didn't back out when all the dragonkin come in, thinking my dervish and devastate would clear them out fast enough. The second time, I was insta-gibbed by something, not sure what. BUt it was a very fast fight.

    I am specced for massive damage, and very little defense. I finished in at level 34.

    I had two pretty great weeapons, which I got lucky and was able to enchant them both up to 10% disenchant, so they were both well into the 500's for DPS.

    As a point of reference on the trash before Ordrak, I was one shotting whole groups with my devastate, some of the tougher mobs were 2 shots, and the uniques were more often than not 3-4 shots, usually 2 of them being criticals. But I did get insta-gibbed a few times by the elementals, my defense is very poor (only 1 point in Shadow Armor, 1 in Frost Shield, and 5 in Armor Expertise)
    Cautious - 1 Destroyer VH HC Ironman
    RIP VH HC Ironmen:
    Alchemist: 0
    Destroyer: 1, 5, 6, 9, 9, 13
    Vanquisher: 0

    Avatar thanks to Gern44!
  • I just beated Ordrak on dual wield VH destroyer, devastate build with ~20 points to defense at start and rest to strenght.
    took about 2 minutes to kill him at 26 lvl
  • Something interesting happened to me when I beat Ordrak for the first time recently. In his Lair, I walked in to activate him, then I went back out and opened a portal and went to town for some potions. When I got back to his lair, he had come out of his room and chased me into the little anteroom at the stairs.. there I proceeded to fight him alone, where he didn't summon any minions or anything (it was my first time, but I gathered that he summons?). Then after I beat him I went running through his lair and here and there a dragonkin would spawn, take 24502395 damage (approximately :P) and die..

    did I find some easy-kill glitch by taking him out of his main room?
  • Yea a similar thing happened to me. After killing Ordrak and walking to the main room - there were waves and waves of dragonkin just falling over dead. It was a pretty cool sight.
  • oh and for the record it took me about 3 minutes to kill him, 3 minutes of wailing on him, I only used like 5 health potions
  • VostofVostof Posts: 48
    Ordrak was very easy for my dual wield Destroyer using devastate on hard difficulty. I was actually surprised at how easy he was. He was much more difficult for my Vanquisher.
  • I don't completely agree with many posters here that Ordrak is a case of just needing more DPS. IMO, Ordrak is a case of needing more damage per SWING. Lets look at 2 Destroyers who go after him, each after going through the normal game without too much leveling or awesome hand-me-down gear. I'll use Slash instead of Devastate just because I can, the same argument applies if you use Devastate. I'll call the first Destroyer "Spec", and the 2nd one "Slash":

    Level: ~30
    Melee attribute: 100
    Skills (all maxed at 10 points):
    - Martial Weapons Expertise: +40% dmg
    - Dual Wielding: +60% dmg (if 2nd weapon in left hand, "Slash" only, "Spec" uses a shield)
    - Slash: 149% of DPS (of both weapons combined, assume 2x per second cast speed)
    - Spectral Echo: 84% of DPS (of right hand weapon, can be stacked 3x)
    Weapon(s): 100-200 dmg per swing (150 ave), 3 swings per second, 450 "DPS"

    Spec actual dmg:
    - 150 + 150*0.4(MWE) + 150*1.0(STR) = 360 dmg per swing
    - 3 swings per second = 1080 DPS
    - Spectral Echo dmg = 0.84*DPS = 907 dmg per echo
    - 3 Echos per attack = 9 Echos per second = 8163 DPS
    - Total DPS = 9243

    Slash actual dmg:
    - 150 + 150*0.4(MWE) + 150*1.0(STR) + 150*0.6(DW) = 450 dmg per swing
    - 3 swings per second = 1350 DPS per weapon
    - Slash dmg = 1.49*(1350+1350) = 4023 dmg per Slash
    - 2 Slashes per second = 8046 DPS
    - Total DPS = 8046

    So Spec actually does just a bit more DPS, but he has a nightmare keeping up all his buffs along with continually spamming SE. And, as we'll see, he's completely screwed by high armor!

    Assume average mob with 200 armor:

    Spec per second hits with 12 attacks for a total dmg of 6780
    - 3 normal attacks for (360-200) = 160 each
    - 3 Spectral Echos per normal attack for (907-200) = 707 each

    Slash per second hits with 2 attacks for a total dmg of 7646
    - Cast Slash twice per second for (4023-200) = 3823 each

    Everyone should see where this is going... Now let's look at Ordrak, with 800 Armor (just an example, I don't have the editor to know his actual armor):

    Spec per second hits with 12 attacks for a total dmg of 963
    - 3 normal attacks for (360-800) = 0 each
    - 3 Spectral Echos per normal attack for (907-800) = 107 each

    Slash per second hits with 2 attacks for a total dmg of 6446
    - Cast Slash twice per second for (4023-800) = 3223 each

    So Slash can kill Ordrak about 6.7 times faster, or if it takes slash 5 mins, it taks Spec more than half an hour. Obviously, some people feel this is imbalanced, but I prefer to think of it as a reason to use polarms or big attacks like Slash rather than pee-shooters and rapid love taps like Spectral Echo. The fast attacks get big benefits from triggering **** per hit a lot more often, and in Spectral Echo's case, you get life/mana steal where Slash doesn't. If you factor in Crits, then faster attacks do better and better as Crit chance goes up, since each Crit is a really big damage single attack that will easily overcome armor.

    All told, I honestly beleive Slash/Devestate are UNDERPOWERED relative to Spectral Echo. But they're a LOT easier to play with, so I personally prefer them. :) Regardless of preference, Ordrak is a case where you've got to bring the right tool for the job, just as if you're a frost mage facing cold immunes. I don't think it's imbalanced, it's just something for which you actually have to think and adjust your tactics.
  • AnalogKid wrote:
    I don't completely agree with many posters here that Ordrak is a case of just needing more DPS. IMO, Ordrak is a case of needing more damage per SWING.


    This hits the nail on the head so speak and completely agree with this. I know this is the destroyer forum I saw the same thing with my vanquisher. It took me ages to kill Ordrak with her and she had very nice DPS. I had to depend solely on crits because of Ordrak's excellent damage reduction per hit.
  • Well you can say you did it at least.
    I gave up, estimating at least 45 minutes and 100 pots.
    I hate when a game forces a perfect build you didn't need the rest of the game.
    Ranged at 900 dps, I couldn't make a dent.
  • Angus88Angus88 Posts: 10

    Just finished with my first Destroyer. Vanilla, Hard, Level 35. My two Alchemists and two Vanquishers had a much easier time, mainly because they had max Critical Strikes. Destroyers can't invest in that skill until Level 20, which makes sense for balance, but my next Destroyer will have max CS before facing Ordrak. This time I had 11% Critical Chance, mostly from gear. I didn't time the fight, but it took quite a few cycles of casting Elemental Protection VI, Haste VI, and max Frost Shield. I used max Slash Attack and also my regular melee attack to replenish Mana. I don't have stun skills yet but will develop some in the Shadow Vault. My pet was a mobile Silence VI casting unit, and she did keep the Dragonkin muzzled. Didn't drink many potions, as I often ran away to cast Heal All VI. I'm guessing the fight lasted 5–10 minutes. My next Destroyer will use completely different class-specific skills, except for Frost Shield which is essential.

  • Angus88Angus88 Posts: 10

    Just finished with my first Destroyer. Vanilla, Hard, Level 35. My two Alchemists and two Vanquishers had a much easier time, mainly because they had max Critical Strikes. Destroyers can't invest in that skill until Level 20, which makes sense for balance, but my next Destroyer will have max CS before facing Ordrak. This time I had 11% Critical Chance, mostly from gear. I didn't time the fight, but it took quite a few cycles of casting Elemental Protection VI, Haste VI, and max Frost Shield. I used max Slash Attack and also my regular melee attack to replenish Mana. I don't have stun skills yet but will develop some in the Shadow Vault. My pet was a mobile Silence VI casting unit, and she did keep the Dragonkin muzzled. Didn't drink many potions, as I often ran away to cast Heal All VI. I'm guessing the fight lasted 5–10 minutes. My next Destroyer will use completely different class-specific skills, except for Frost Shield which is essential.

  • Angus88Angus88 Posts: 10

    Just finished with my first Destroyer. Vanilla, Hard, Level 35. My two Alchemists and two Vanquishers had a much easier time, mainly because they had max Critical Strikes. Destroyers can't invest in that skill until Level 20, which makes sense for balance, but my next Destroyer will have max CS before facing Ordrak. This time I had 11% Critical Chance, mostly from gear. I didn't time the fight, but it took quite a few cycles of casting Elemental Protection VI, Haste VI, and max Frost Shield. I used max Slash Attack and also my regular melee attack to replenish Mana. I don't have stun skills yet but will develop some in the Shadow Vault. My pet was a mobile Silence VI casting unit, and she did keep the Dragonkin muzzled. Didn't drink many potions, as I often ran away to cast Heal All VI. I'm guessing the fight lasted 5–10 minutes. My next Destroyer will use completely different class-specific skills, except for Frost Shield which is essential.

  • Angus88Angus88 Posts: 10

    Just finished with my first Destroyer. Vanilla, Hard, Level 35. My two Alchemists and two Vanquishers had a much easier time, mainly because they had max Critical Strikes. Destroyers can't invest in that skill until Level 20, which makes sense for balance, but my next Destroyer will have max CS before facing Ordrak. This time I had 11% Critical Chance, mostly from gear. I didn't time the fight, but it took quite a few cycles of casting Elemental Protection VI, Haste VI, and max Frost Shield. I used max Slash Attack and also my regular melee attack to replenish Mana. I don't have stun skills yet but will develop some in the Shadow Vault. My pet was a mobile Silence VI casting unit, and she did keep the Dragonkin muzzled. Didn't drink many potions, as I often ran away to cast Heal All VI. I'm guessing the fight lasted 5–10 minutes. My next Destroyer will use completely different class-specific skills, except for Frost Shield which is essential.

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