Finding Skulls and Eyes

beastmodeengagedbeastmodeengaged Posts: 235
edited March 2015 in TL2 General Discussions
Alright. I have just done about 10 ghastly crypts runs on mapworks in the 55-64 range. I haven't seen a single skull or eye of any description. I have 45% MF, playing elite. I've opened every sarcophagus I've come across. Am I getting unlucky, or is there a problem with my technique?
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Comments

  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    Alright. I have just done about 10 ghastly crypts runs on mapworks in the 55-64 range. I haven't seen a single skull or eye of any description. I have 45% MF, playing elite. I've opened every sarcophagus I've come across. Am I getting unlucky, or is there a problem with my technique?

    What level are you, and what NG cycle are you in?
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    Mid 60's during these runs. I'm in normal mode, I haven't reset yet.

    I assume what you're looking for are Skulls of Limoany?

    I'd try 48-55 mapworks instead of 56-65 if so.

    The range for them is level 52-63, if you're over 63 they will likely not drop anymore from 56-65 maps, whereas 48-55 maps will be level 55 enemies and therefore be within that range.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • RedvexRedvex Posts: 966
    It's not his level that matters, i'd go with the 60-ish maps / act1 Ng+ as well, that's how I got mine. I went up to lvl 68 while grinding for those.
  • TenTen Posts: 395
    Found my 5th limoany today in a 48-55 mapworks dungeon while on an alt. The others came from A1 NG+.

    Still no Riechliu Skulls though!
    ___ten2.png___
  • RedvexRedvex Posts: 966
    You'll get those in the highest level areas, NG+++ /lvl ~100 mapworks.
    I get a Riechliu/Rambren each play session :D
  • That's because Riechliu usually drops at 80ish maps. Though personally, I've dropped them on 96-100 maps.

    I'd keep my eye out for Secret Rooms. The chests there appear to have the best chance of dropping unique socketables.
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    Redvex wrote:
    It's not his level that matters

    Positive of that?

    From what I've seen mapworks enemies (and I assume the loot from the chests as well) tries to scale with you.

    If you're level 30 and enter a 48-55 map all the enemies are level 48. If you're level 52, they're 52. If you're 80, they're 55.

    This applies to 56-65 the same way, if they're all 65 they're too high for you to get limoany any longer. Whereas a 48-55 map would have them all be 55, which is in the range limoany can drop whereas 65 is not.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • RedvexRedvex Posts: 966
    edited November 2012
    I still can't put exact number on this, farming mostly lvl 100 areas but since you'd reach the mapworks 65 cap you'd not get Riechliu in there due to its higher level. I guess there is a point where both could drop but you also add numerous other higher level skulls in the probability mix.

    I should check the different "weights" as well :P

    Your level does not count unless there is a hidden D2-like "TC+qlvl".
    I guess that one of those lvl 30 characters carrying high-end gear due to enchanting could kill lvl 60 monsters and get that Limoany just as your appropriate lvl6X one.
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    Redvex wrote:
    I still can't put exact number on this, farming mostly lvl 100 areas but since you'd reach the mapworks 65 cap while still leveling up in the 70's (until XP end up to 0/kill) you'd not get Riechliu in there due to its higher level. I guess there is a point where both could drop but you also add numerous other higher level skulls in the probability mix.

    I should check the different "weights" as well :P

    I mostly meant that I "think" 48-55 maps are better than 56-65 maps for getting Limoany's once you are higher than level 63.

    I'm not certain of that, bit it at least makes sense to me that it would work that way.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • RedvexRedvex Posts: 966
    Well, Limoany drops in Echo Pass NG+, that area being 51.
    Now, does not-going-in-NG+ affects which skulls are available? Anyone grinding MW endlessly in normal playthrough ? :D

    Simply put: Does MW lvl 51 = NG+ lvl 51 = MW NG+ 51 ?

    Looking at the dat files, i'd say yes unless I'm missing a specific hidden file :D

    Here are the tables used (skipping gold/potions and whatnot)

    Normal chest = CHEST_TREASURE_PRIMARY + CHEST_TREASURE_SECONDARY
    Boss Chest = CHEST_TREASURE_PRIMARY_GOOD + CHEST_TREASURE_SECONDARY_GOOD but has also TREASURE_SKULLCHANCE_FORSUPERCHESTS
    Huge Chests = CHEST_TREASURE_PRIMARY_GOOD + CHEST_TREASURE_PRIMARY_GOODER + TREASURE_SKULLCHANCE_FORSUPERCHESTS
    Secret Room Chest = CHEST_TREASURE_PRIMARY_GOOD + CHEST_TREASURE_SECONDARY_GOOD + TREASURE_GEMCHANCE_LUCKANDGOLD (only gf/mf socketables there)

    Now,

    CHEST_TREASURE_PRIMARY
    CHEST_TREASURE_SECONDARY
    CHEST_TREASURE_PRIMARY_GOOD
    CHEST_TREASURE_SECONDARY_GOOD
    CHEST_TREASURE_SECONDARY_GOODER

    all contain this:
    <STRING>SPAWNCLASS:SOCKETABLES_SPAWN
    <INTEGER>WEIGHT:X
    <INTEGER>MINCOUNT:1
    <INTEGER>MAXCOUNT:1
    <BOOL>NO_UNIQUE_ITEMS:true

    TREASURE_SKULLCHANCE_FORSUPERCHESTS means unique socketables are possible there with a huge nothing counterpart (see weights)
    [SPAWNCLASS]
    <STRING>NAME:TREASURE_SKULLCHANCE_FORSUPERCHESTS
    [OBJECT]
    <STRING>UNITTYPE:UNIQUE SOCKETABLE
    <INTEGER>WEIGHT:1
    <INTEGER>MINCOUNT:1
    <INTEGER>MAXCOUNT:1
    [/OBJECT]
    [OBJECT]
    <STRING>UNITTYPE:NONE
    <INTEGER>WEIGHT:22
    [/OBJECT]
    [/SPAWNCLASS]

    So, iirc, it means 1/23 of getting a skull, not the skull chance replacing a gem since it's part of the treasure tables (never seen a skull out of those **** boss chests :D )
    Checking the min/max counts of the other tables, i don't know for sure if the skull table is always picked or if it can be replaced by other treasures and gold and not even rolled at all in the drop process.

    Now the sarcophagus:

    It has a specific table being

    TREASURE_CHEST + TREASURE_CHEST_SMALL,
    both picking in those tables
    CHEST_TREASURE_PRIMARY, CHEST_TREASURE_SECONDARY
    (The "small" table being more common and lacking potions chance for more gold)

    That's what I'm always sticking to those blue chests from start :D
    From the looks of it, i'd go with this for Limoany and Riechliu

    Chest lvl 01-52 :arrow: [X]
    Chest lvl 53 -62 :arrow: Limoany drop chance
    Chest lvl 63-70 :arrow: [X]
    Chest lvl 71-999 :arrow: Riechliu drop chance
  • Where are you getting that game data from? Is it encoded or in plain text?

    Is there any documentation on how loot tables work? How does MF affect those numbers?

    Finally, are you saying that only chests which have TREASURE_SKULLCHANCE_FORSUPERCHESTS can possibly drop skulls? Mean Boss Chests and Huge Chests? Are Huge Chests the blue ones, or the really big sparkly ones, e.g. of the kind you can find in Luminous Arena? What are the blue ones called?
  • RedvexRedvex Posts: 966
    edited November 2012
    You can easily extract the content of .pak files, the .dat inside can be converted in txt format. Check the modding section ;)
    (Torchlight Extractor + dat2txt)

    Regarding loots, well each monster/lootable item has fixed tables in its .dat file, each containing min/max amount + weight (=chances when drop is rolled) and all those tables are stored in the \spawnclasses folder.

    There's also a large "datamining thread" in this section, so I'm pretty sure what I'm posting will be redundant.

    PS: I'm still quite clueless about MF, seing extra MF entries and amounts here and there...

    Edit: Good idea, I'm gonna check those luminous arena ones, I never did :D
    Edi²: Found nothing special regarding those, i'd say: normal chest.
    Quick Skull testing, i've been too lazy to try before :D Now back to the lvl question.

    Sample: Character lvl 100, lvl 120 area in Act3 NG5+ (=lvl 100 in Ng3+, same results past 100 anyway)
    I made a chest roll 100x1 skull drop with 100% chance

    NCbgK.jpg

    According to the dat files and their stated levels those skulls only should drop

    (Skull# / Name / level / rarity)
    035 Riechliu 73 324
    036 Rambren 75 289
    037 Samadow 76 256
    038 Sossimu 78 225
    039 Trenkay 79 196
    040 Tibbeek 81 169
    041 Umbarmun 82 144
    042 Unapom 84 121
    043 Vastok 85 100
    044 Vellinque 87 81
    045 Whorlbarb 88 64
    046 Wfuntir 90 49
    047 X'n!troph 91 36
    048 Xax 93 25
    049 Yanfeer 94 16
    050 Yololo 96 9
    051 Zardon 97 4
    052 ZardonMS 99 1

    Why no other skulls? Because Skull 34 and below cap from 9 to 79 in range, all those are 71+ to 999
    Ok 100 is a very tiny number but here are the results (still sorted per rarity)
    035 Riechliu 13
    036 Rambren 19
    037 Samadow 11
    038 Sossimu 9
    039 Trenkay 13
    040 Tibbeek 9
    041 Umbarmun 8
    042 Unapom 4
    043 Vastok 3
    044 Vellinque 4
    045 Whorlbarb 1
    046 Wfuntir 1
    047 X'n!troph 2
    048 Xax 2
    049 Yanfeer 1
    050 Yololo 0
    051 Zardon 0
    052 ZardonMS 0
    Yup no Limoany or other lower skulls (and looking at rarity, I feel lucky having 2 Wfuntir :D )
    And my both more common selfdropped skulls are Riechliu and Rambren... (NG+++ and the nexts ofc)

    I guess we can safely say that Zardon, with that special skull icon, is the Zod of the game.

    Now, let's open a MW lvl 65 chest with the same character...

    .dat files say (and I'll add Limoany in the list, Limoany should not drop, bigger skulls either)
    023 Limoany 55 900
    -
    025 Macaburg 58 784
    026 Meerko 60 729
    027 Nopsil 61 676
    028 Nephanic 63 625
    029 Omorox 64 576
    030 Orpantile 66 529
    031 Pruntis 67 484

    Results
    023 Limoany 0
    025 Macaburg 21
    026 Meerko 17
    027 Nopsil 8
    028 Nephanic 17
    029 Omorox 14
    030 Orpantile 12
    031 Pruntis 11

    Limoany = lvl 55 = 53-62 = In MW with a character > lvl 62, get lvl 48-55 maps or you're screwed

    I'm assuming for now that rarity works like weight.
    With that being true, it implies that opening a lvl 55 blue chest and getting a skull out of it makes it 18,69% chance being Limoany in a 48-55 MW with a lvl 55+ character.

    Now I'll state this, finally some numbers from those dat files:
    The drop range of a skull is lvl X-Y
    Where X = Skull lvl -2 and Y = X+9. If X=71+, Y = 999


    Now some +1 (or some stoning) please :D
    With all the wall of txt thingy I forgot eyes drops.
    Well it's "simply" an extra loot table for bosses With a % of nothing in it

    Eg: Grell
    [SPAWNCLASS]
    <STRING>NAME:GRELL_TREASURE_EYE_CHANCE
    [OBJECT]
    <STRING>UNITTYPE:NONE
    <INTEGER>WEIGHT:85
    [/OBJECT]
    [OBJECT]
    <STRING>UNIT:TL2_EYEOFGRELL
    <INTEGER>WEIGHT:15
    <INTEGER>RARITY_OVERRIDE:1
    <INTEGER>MINCOUNT:1
    <INTEGER>MAXCOUNT:1
    <BOOL>IGNORE_RANGE:true
    [/OBJECT]
    [/SPAWNCLASS]
    Cacklespit
    [SPAWNCLASS]
    <STRING>NAME:TREASURE_EYECHANCE_CACKLESPIT
    [OBJECT]
    <STRING>UNITTYPE:NONE
    <INTEGER>WEIGHT:85
    [/OBJECT]
    [OBJECT]
    <STRING>UNIT:TL2_EYECACKLESPIT
    <INTEGER>WEIGHT:15
    <INTEGER>RARITY_OVERRIDE:1
    <INTEGER>MINCOUNT:1
    <INTEGER>MAXCOUNT:1
    <BOOL>IGNORE_RANGE:true
    [/OBJECT]
    [/SPAWNCLASS]
    Aleera
    [SPAWNCLASS]
    <STRING>NAME:TREASURE_EYECHANCE_ALEERA
    [OBJECT]
    <STRING>UNITTYPE:NONE
    <INTEGER>WEIGHT:90
    [/OBJECT]
    [OBJECT]
    <STRING>UNIT:TL2_EYEOFSISTER_ALEERA
    <INTEGER>WEIGHT:10
    <INTEGER>RARITY_OVERRIDE:1
    <INTEGER>MINCOUNT:1
    <INTEGER>MAXCOUNT:1
    <BOOL>IGNORE_RANGE:true
    [/OBJECT]
    [/SPAWNCLASS]
    I guess It's 15% droprate for an eye and 85% nothing for most regular bosses, here 10% with the Sisters.
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    So seems I was right that the players level does matter in regards to mapworks, that 48-55 if better than 56-65 if you're high level and still lacking limoany's. Was fairly sure it worked that way, but hadn't tested it. Thanks for the info Redvex.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • RedvexRedvex Posts: 966
    Well my hesitation was mostly regarding that "range" value, I thought from start that NG+++ or MW is required for the highest socketables (since some rare/unique eyes also gain in power with NG+)
    So yes, to have a chance at looting every possible skull, you've to keep a second character in the main playthrough, even though, no one would need the lowest skulls, that's the only place you'll drop them, besides it's exactly the same for other items like those +35/+50% fire Inferno Set items, you won't get them gambling at lvl 100.

    For those who played it, it's in a way like Titan Quest and its relics, except that in Torchlight you can't get back to lower modes without a mod.
  • NauzhrorNauzhror Posts: 1,090
    Yeah, it's a shame. There are a few pieces of low level gear I think a lot of high level characters might want to go back and try and get but can't once they go to NG+.

    Example: [LINK DELETED]

    Still never gotten that amulet to drop. I did however get it via transmuting so I assume it can drop from enemies.
    Wq022Hq.png
    "All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." - Douglas Adams
  • You ROCK for doing this. This completely satisfies me as to what level things have to be in order to drop. That's super useful and I bet it applies to the gamblers as well, except for gamblers it's what level YOU are, up to a cap.

    However, I am still wondering how MF% affects things and whether it's really try that skulls can only drop from ornate chests. That seems crazy to me.
  • TenTen Posts: 395
    You ROCK for doing this. This completely satisfies me as to what level things have to be in order to drop. That's super useful and I bet it applies to the gamblers as well, except for gamblers it's what level YOU are, up to a cap.

    However, I am still wondering how MF% affects things and whether it's really try that skulls can only drop from ornate chests. That seems crazy to me.

    I found a Skull of Limoany from loose boards (or whatever they're called) in NG+ A1.
    ___ten2.png___
  • RedvexRedvex Posts: 966
    Ten wrote:
    I found a Skull of Limoany from loose boards (or whatever they're called) in NG+ A1.
    Yup, according to the spawnclasses:

    Boards = TREASURE_CHEST_ROCK

    75% Nothing
    15% Potion Drop
    2% Scroll Drop
    8% TREASURE_CHEST_ROCK_GOOD Table

    TREASURE_CHEST_ROCK_GOOD has a SPAWNCLASS:SOCKETABLES_SPAWN (can't give % on this, still confused by -1/0 values as weight...)
    &#91;SPAWNCLASS&#93;
    &lt;STRING&gt;NAME:SOCKETABLES_SPAWN
    &#91;OBJECT&#93;
    &lt;STRING&gt;UNITTYPE:SOCKETABLE
    &lt;INTEGER&gt;WEIGHT:93
    &#91;/OBJECT&#93;
    &#91;/SPAWNCLASS&#93;
    

    = nothing prevents unique socketables from spawning.

    That's weird, unless I missed something, you can get skulls under rocks and boards, but not in basic chests...
  • ThufirThufir Posts: 97
    Redvex: Thank you.
  • RedvexRedvex Posts: 966
    Well, most bosses don't but dragons drop skulls (that's 1.5% actually -.-)

    bd8Wt.jpg
  • So does MF have an effect on skull drops, or is that still unknown?
  • RedvexRedvex Posts: 966
    That I don't know, the item type is "socketable", i'd go with a no on that for now :P
  • So to summarize some of the info: Skulls can only drop from blue chests and Boss chests, much more rarely from under boards, and from a dragon. That seem correct?

    The chance from boards seem ridiculously low, 8% for a socketable then presumably choosing from among all possible socketables, where the common ones probably have a much higher chance. It would seem then that the easiest way to acquire skulls is from blue chests.

    Here is where we could possibly harness some crowdsourcing: are there any locations where blue chests spawn regularly that can be farmed with efficiency?
  • While normal chest never gives any skulls, the normal chest-type mimic DOES.
    I got from it yerterday :lol: , not a good skull though :( .
  • jdean300jdean300 Posts: 211
    jwallstone wrote:
    So to summarize some of the info: Skulls can only drop from blue chests and Boss chests, much more rarely from under boards, and from a dragon. That seem correct?

    The chance from boards seem ridiculously low, 8% for a socketable then presumably choosing from among all possible socketables, where the common ones probably have a much higher chance. It would seem then that the easiest way to acquire skulls is from blue chests.

    Here is where we could possibly harness some crowdsourcing: are there any locations where blue chests spawn regularly that can be farmed with efficiency?


    Small zones, likes Crow's Pass for instance, can quickly be ran through, with an Embermage with Frost Phase. It's pretty easy to memorize the spawns of them and the different map sets. I still prefer mapworks for chest runs, though. Run through, hit all the blue chests (secret rooms pretty much always have a blue chest), kill champs if you want uniques for transmuting. Bosses have crappy drops 9 times out of ten, so you could switch dungeons w/out doing the boss.
    HCE Characters
    BrutalEngine - 37/22 Cannoneer
    CreativeEngine - 76/100 Summon Engi NG++++ Beaten
    BurningCold - 65 Frost/PB Mage
    Vanguard - 23/30 Shotty Outlander
  • blackpoxblackpox Posts: 19
    Sorry for the question, but what is a blue chest? how does it look like?
  • jdean300jdean300 Posts: 211
    blackpox wrote:
    Sorry for the question, but what is a blue chest? how does it look like?

    It'll be slightly larger than a normal chest and will have a blue glow around/above it. It'll still only be called a chest though
    HCE Characters
    BrutalEngine - 37/22 Cannoneer
    CreativeEngine - 76/100 Summon Engi NG++++ Beaten
    BurningCold - 65 Frost/PB Mage
    Vanguard - 23/30 Shotty Outlander
  • Redvex wrote:

    According to the dat files and their stated levels those skulls only should drop

    (Skull# / Name / level / rarity)
    035 Riechliu 73 324
    036 Rambren 75 289
    037 Samadow 76 256
    038 Sossimu 78 225
    039 Trenkay 79 196
    040 Tibbeek 81 169
    041 Umbarmun 82 144
    042 Unapom 84 121
    043 Vastok 85 100
    044 Vellinque 87 81
    045 Whorlbarb 88 64
    046 Wfuntir 90 49
    047 X'n!troph 91 36
    048 Xax 93 25
    049 Yanfeer 94 16
    050 Yololo 96 9
    051 Zardon 97 4
    052 ZardonMS 99 1

    On a non-modded version of TL2, how do you calculate drop probabilty from "rarity" (see table)? Of course such a calculation would involve character level etc.
  • GeistGeist Posts: 128
    Presumably, the drop% would be the skull's rarity divided by the sum of the rarities of all skulls that can be dropped at the current map level. In mapworks, the map level can vary with your character level, but stays within the listed range.

    Of course, that's only after the game has decided to drop a skull at all, which depends on the loot tables, so the true rate would be even lower.
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