Can Block reflect projectiles? How important is it?

JohnJSalJohnJSal Posts: 56
edited March 2013 in Embermage Discussions
My current shield has a 35% chance to reflect projectiles, but I just found this: [LINK DELETED]

Better in every way except the reflection. So I'm wondering, can Block also deflect projectiles? If not, should I still upgrade, or is reflection important enough to keep the first shield?

Thanks.

Comments

  • FinrazielFinraziel Posts: 505
    Block will block projectiles, it will not reflect them back towards your enemies.
    If you can use that shield and you don't have maxed block (75%) yet though, you might want to try gambling for its brother:
    [LINK DELETED]
  • JohnJSalJohnJSal Posts: 56
    Finraziel wrote:
    Block will block projectiles, it will not reflect them back towards your enemies.
    If you can use that shield and you don't have maxed block (75%) yet though, you might want to try gambling for its brother:
    [LINK DELETED]

    Thank you!
  • SirMisterSirMister Posts: 166
    A couple of notes regarding block and reflect projectile %:

    Block is easier to max (thanks to bonuses from Vit)
    Block applies to all damage (ranged and melee)
    The higher your % is, the more important more becomes (going from 50% to 75% cuts your damage in half), and having Block at 75% is the same for Ranged as having 50% of each.

    That being said, in an ideal world you'd have 100% reflect and 75% block. As an embermage, the VAST majority of incoming damage is ranged, so reflect projectile percentage is much more important than normal, especially as you don't have frost shield to augment it. Thus when comparing shields, I usually add the percentages together (one with 10% block and 8% reflect projectiles is thus more valuable than one with 14% block). If it's too close to call, I recommend running the percentages. Take (100 - your old block %), then divide (100 - your new block %) by that number- that's how much less (or more damage you're taking). Use Arcane Stats page, so you have the real %. Do the same for projectile reflection. So, if you had 40% block and 30% reflect, and you're moving to 50% block and no reflect, it would be (50 / 60 = 83%), so you're taking 17% less damage from all sources, but you're taking (100 / 70 = 142%), so 42% more damage from ranged. You can then multiply the percentages to find out if it's a net increase or decrease in damage taken (in this case .83 x 1.42 is 1.18, so overall you're taking 18% more damage from ranged attacks). Hope that helps.
  • FinrazielFinraziel Posts: 505
    Do note however that block and reflect do not stack in the same way.
    If you have 10% block from one source, 25% block from another, and 40% block from vit, you end up with 10+25+40 = 75% block.
    if you would manage to have the same reflect chances, you would only have 59.5% reflect. This is because rather than adding them together, the game runs them one after another. So you have a 10% chance to reflect, if you miss that then you have another 25% chance to reflect, then if you miss that you finally have a 40% chance to reflect. The chance to be hit is then the chance that all three of those will miss, which is 0.9 * 0.75 * 0.6 = 0.405, so 40.5% chance to be hit means 59.5% chance to reflect.
    Since most reflect sources are quite low (5% chance to reflect, are you kidding me??), it's very hard to get any meaningful reflect going if you don't have something giving you a very high reflect chance from one source such as berserker's iceshield or outlander's shadowmantle.

    Also, there are ranged attacks that can not be reflected, but you can block them. So block is still slightly better and I'd go for that as long as the combined evasion of block and reflect as SirMister showed how to calculate isn't significantly better.
  • JohnJSalJohnJSal Posts: 56
    Thank you very much for the details! Since I'm going from 10% Block to 15%, and 35% Reflect to 0% Reflect, it's obvious I will be losing some damage reduction. But I did the numbers anyway and I think I got it right:

    (100 - 15) / (100 - 10) = 85 / 90 = 0.94 = 94% = 6% less damage with the new shield

    (100 - 0) / (100 - 35) = 1.54 = 154% = 54% more damage with the new shield

    .94 * 1.54 = 1.45

    So it seems I'm taking 45% more damage from ranged attacks if I use the new shield. That seems fairly significant, I'd say.
  • Finraziel wrote:

    Also, there are ranged attacks that can not be reflected, but you can block them. So block is still slightly better and I'd go for that as long as the combined evasion of block and reflect as SirMister showed how to calculate isn't significantly better.

    I have heard this, but not seen in in action. Any idea what those effects might be?
    If you wanted to simulate 75% block with five, 25% reflect skulls (or one 25% shield and 4 skulls - you get the idea)


    I find getting 30% reflect pretty helpful (you can do this as a single source on a shield).
  • FinrazielFinraziel Posts: 505
    I havent really played with high reflect (ideally a highish level berserker since they get 100% reflect from a buff) enough to be entirely sure from personal experience, but I think the thrown spears aren't reflected and some groundbased attacks aren't. I definitely agree that having some reflect is awesome though, I just meant that if you have the choice between block and reflect and the percentages work out the same then go for block. Of course best is maxed block as well as some reflect.
    The thing with reflect though, it's so hard to get a decent amount of it. There's the shield, but there's two problems with it... I only seem to find the highest levels of reflect on really low level shields, and there's usually something more interesting I want on my shield (like 20% cast speed). Other than that, there's really not that many good sources for it. The skull is awesome yes, but I believe it's also incredibly rare (I seem to remember someone having looked at the files and I think they said it was a lot harder to find than any other skull).
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