Shocking Orb mechanics discussion

IcysliceoficeIcysliceofice Posts: 14
edited April 2013 in Embermage Discussions
I wanted to make a thread on Shocking orb because it is frostorb v2 and my favourite dps skill in game and that this could open discussions upon the mechanics of the orb and how to optimise it. Here is what I know so far.

+ good tactical placement advantage
+ it can bounce
+ It builds charge, rather quickly at that
+ it causes shocks
+ VERY HIGH attacks per second, this will trigger way more brands in certain cases compared to PB Brand triggers at most once per second.
+ it uses weapon DAMAGE, not weapon dps. This makes it an unique skill that limits your weapon use, namely slow maces or mauls.
+ it can cause -all armor on each orb hit, able to reaching more negative armor than berserkers. This is very interesting as it means orbs can be an independant skill without needing the buff of staff mastery, i find this to be the most important redeeming trait of this spell.
+ full benefits from STR

- cannot trigger staff mastery or wand chaos
- cannot life leach, mana leach, apply damage over x seconds, or apply various effects such as blinding cloud
- 0.8second cooldown
- slow cast animation

so
1) any mechanics I've left out?
2) best cast variations given the 0.8second cooldown you can cast another spell, such as hailstorm, ice prison or pillars to give more status effects to optimize the high attack rate of orbs? It feels wasteful to hold down the mouse button to spam orbs when in that time frame another spell could be cast even FF. in another words, shocking orb with pillar/hail/icyblast/frostVI(iceprison/FF) which combination or combinations would reach highest dps if anyone can run a simulation?
3) worth switching weapons for staff mastery debuff?(this would mean using icy blast/magma spears) usually even bosses die extremly quickly to a proper shocking orb setup.
4) hammer of offical rebuke is the previous BIS 1hand weapon for shocking orbs, what about the new set of weapons that comes out?
5) because shocking orb converts all damage to electric, how would that interact with weapons with high physical damage, given embermage is will primarily dump stats into FOC.
6) does +melee damage increase shocking orb damage if a melee weapon is used?


Edit: Additional points raised.

+ deals damage when they hit, rather than when they are released. this makes for some weapon swapping combinations.
+ can have knockback stats
+ higher level scales with critical%
+ critical works like weapon dps skill. as in, weapon always does MAX critical damage. This means Axes are out of question once again. Here are some considerations for BIS gear.

1h- Bonepry Wedge - 776 Max damage, 25% Critical
1h - Smithereen - 1556 Max damage, 25% chance to cast metoer on kill
2h- Ophidian E. - 1853 Max damage, +10% damage, is a staff (has silence, stun and acid rain for use with other skills, since you'd want to use a staff for staff mastery)
2h- Starfall C. - 2264 Max damage, +50Knockback, Charge 20%, DR 2%, 25% pet and minion damage.
2h- Final E. - 3031 Max damage, -157 to all armor, +35% ice damage (numbers maybe increased by 35% ice damage as it lists 2000 ice damage. thus may actually be 600 max damage less in base stats)

Comments

  • VorodarVorodar Posts: 691
    + VERY HIGH attacks per second, this will trigger way more brands in certain cases compared to PB

    Actually, since the Brands trigger at most once per second, it would be on par with PB.
    1) any mechanics I've left out?

    Here is the only thing I can think of:
    Chthon wrote:
    Interesting note on Shocking Orb:

    They deal an amount damage based on the weapon you have equipped at the time they deal the damage, not the weapon you had equipped when you used the spell. So you could get yourself one weapon with a huge cast speed bonus and another with huge damage then operate as follows: Cast a bunch of orbs with the cast speed weapon, then press W just before they start to reach the monsters.

    The best set up I can think of for the casting set is dual wielding two "The Beast with a Million Eyes" socketed with 2x huge chaos ember for a total of 54% faster cast speed (on top of whatever you're getting from other gear). That probably makes a big enough difference to justify the extra effort of switching weapons constantly.
    5) because shocking orb converts all damage to electric, how would that interact with weapons with high physical damage, given embermage is will primarily dump stats into FOC.

    Damage is converted to electric and afterwards it's modified by Focus. But Strength is also calculated into it. So, in short, both Strength and Focus increase the damage by equal amount. Str still increases the crit multiplier, though.
    6) does +melee damage increase shocking orb damage if a melee weapon is used?

    Yes, I'm pretty sure it would.
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  • 2) best cast variations given the 0.8second cooldown you can cast another spell, such as hailstorm, ice prison or pillars to give more status effects to optimize the high attack rate of orbs? It feels wasteful to hold down the mouse button to spam orbs when in that time frame another spell could be cast even FF. in another words, shocking orb with pillar/hail/icyblast/frostVI(iceprison/FF) which combination or combinations would reach highest dps if anyone can run a simulation?
    I don't think it is possible to use it that way, actually just spamming it provides the highest dps.
    3) worth switching weapons for staff mastery debuff?(this would mean using icy blast/magma spears) usually even bosses die extremly quickly to a proper shocking orb setup.
    No. But you may cast SO from a staff - they have sufficiently high damage per hit - and also use shockbolts for staff mastery if you want.
    4) hammer of offical rebuke is the previous BIS 1hand weapon for shocking orbs, what about the new set of weapons that comes out?
    I haven't touched the game for quite a long time now, what set are you referring to?
    5) because shocking orb converts all damage to electric, how would that interact with weapons with high physical damage, given embermage is will primarily dump stats into FOC.
    To better understand the mechanics of a given skill you should look into combatlogs. This is how SO combatlog for **** looks like
    21:41:30: Furikoff casts Shocking Orb
    21:41:30: Shocking Orb used 44 mana
    21:41:31: Furikoff casts Lightning on Target Dummy
    21:41:31: Furikoff deals (1253-2507)-&gt;1712 post soak:0
    21:41:31:   +Electric dmg  (1959-1959)-&gt;1959 post abs:1583
    21:41:31:   +Electric dmg  (1254-2508)-&gt;1552 post abs:1348
    21:41:31:   +Electric dmg  (1254-2508)-&gt;2153 post abs:1725
    21:41:31:   +Electric dmg  (1254-2508)-&gt;1531 post abs:1358
    21:41:31:   +Electric dmg  (1254-2508)-&gt;2274 post abs:2009
    

    **** has six instances of damage, physical from the weapon, physical from weapon stats, and four elemental types. As it was said above they are all converted to electric. Thus the damage is affected by both strength (being weapon damage) and focus (being elemental).
    6) does +melee damage increase shocking orb damage if a melee weapon is used?
    Yes, however, when I tested it, the results were confusing as + melee weapon damage stat did not increased the final damage number as much as I expected. Do not know why. I used two giant iron embers with + 44% melee weapon damage for testing socketed in a **** two socket item.



    SO also translates knockback. With just 10 knockback on one of your items it will continuously push advancing mobs away from you. This is particularly useful for some crowd control midgame (level 60-90) when most mobs are not yet killed by a single orb pulse. But loses it's importance aftefwards - with tier III SO and uber equipment.

    SO usefulness grows with each point invested and every tier. % weapon damage grows with leveling from 32% to 96%. This not only increases SO direct damage but also critical chance since it is dependant on %DPS. It is only 56% at T1, like that of maxed shockbolts. So at T1 it's crit chance is roughly half of your actual. At T3 it is almost equal to your actual crit chance. Which is a strong reason to always max this skill.

    Similarly, each tier bonus makes it more useful and effective. T1 importance is evident, T2 makes it bounce from walls and obstacles, before that the orbs will dissapear upon meeting an obstacle. This makes the skill effective in both dungeons and rough terrain. T3 doubles it's reach, making it cover the ground way more effectively.

    Overall the difference between T1 and T3 SO is like at T1 it requires 3-7 casts to kill a group of mobs, while at T3 a single cast may kill a dozen. The real turning point of this skill when it becomes unquestionably effective is tier II at level 67. Very late, but this was developers choice to put such skill at the bottom of the storm tree.
  • thank you all for the input. I did know of the knockback effect but forgot about it as I made this thread, and it is useful.
    2) best cast variations given the 0.8second cooldown you can cast another spell, such as hailstorm, ice prison or pillars to give more status effects to optimize the high attack rate of orbs? It feels wasteful to hold down the mouse button to spam orbs when in that time frame another spell could be cast even FF. in another words, shocking orb with pillar/hail/icyblast/frostVI(iceprison/FF) which combination or combinations would reach highest dps if anyone can run a simulation?
    I don't think it is possible to use it that way, actually just spamming it provides the highest dps.

    I like to pick out higher cast time gear as I find it more important than raw damage that have diminishing returns. I have been able to cast 2 spells successfully this way without slowing down shocking orb releases, but not sure if this is optimal.
    3) worth switching weapons for staff mastery debuff?(this would mean using icy blast/magma spears) usually even bosses die extremly quickly to a proper shocking orb setup.
    No. But you may cast SO from a staff - they have sufficiently high damage per hit - and also use shockbolts for staff mastery if you want.

    I personally prefer 1h+shield for survivability most of the time and often I have to think twice about the switch to staff for fear of being instagibbed.

    4) hammer of offical rebuke is the previous BIS 1hand weapon for shocking orbs, what about the new set of weapons that comes out?
    I haven't touched the game for quite a long time now, what set are you referring to?

    BIS 1-hand SO weapon pre-patch. 2-H weapons including staff and mauls were quite underwhelming in the amount of extra damage dealt.
    [LINK DELETED]
    SO usefulness grows with each point invested and every tier. % weapon damage grows with leveling from 32% to 96%. This not only increases SO direct damage but also critical chance since it is dependant on %DPS. It is only 56% at T1, like that of maxed shockbolts. So at T1 it's crit chance is roughly half of your actual. At T3 it is almost equal to your actual crit chance. Which is a strong reason to always max this skill.

    I was unsure about the Weapon damage % scaling to crit however, as it was not weapon DPS but weapon Damage which can be misleading.

    But this also raises another question, seeing as Weapon criticals are always max damage, this skill then should in return always deal max critical damage and makes STR and Crit% as well as bonus Crit damage quite valuable. I will try to do some testing later today when I have the opportunity.

    some difference in numbers may arise from brands, which have different min-max damage, and these do not always deal max critical damage due to it not being a weapon skill.

    I will add more points onto my initial post.
  • ChthonChthon Posts: 1,855
    BIS 1-hand SO weapon pre-patch. 2-H weapons including staff and mauls were quite underwhelming in the amount of extra damage dealt.
    [LINK DELETED]

    It may still be BiS. None of the new items are good big, slow one-handers.

    Arcgap's Vice looks reeeeally promising, until you test it and discover that the procs don't work with SO. :( (And the damage per hit is lower than Hammer of Official Rebuke.)
    Smithereen (with 2x Vellinque) does 1567 damage per hit, as compared to Hammer of Official Rebuke (with 2x Vellinque)'s 1306, but NONE of the mods on Smithereen proc off SO. Is the extra 261 base damage worth giving up ****'s 40%crit bonus? I'm not sure. Maybe. This is the best contender out of the new one-handers.
    Netherrealm Hammer (with 4x Vellinque) does 1450 damage per hit, and none of its mods work with SO either. So there's no reason to opt for this over Smithereen.
    Netherrealm Sword (with 4x Vellinque) has exactly the same damage per hit as Hammer of Official Rebuke (with 2x Vellinque), but the meteor proc doesn't work with SO, and I think ****'s 40%crit bonus is better than the sword's 15% all damage bonus.
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