[CLASS][BETA1]The Plaguelord?.

TwinkleToesTwinkleToes Posts: 343
edited May 2016 in Mod Showcase
hey guys.
its been ages since ive been on these forums or touched guts since im quite busy
but i managed to squeeze out this project into an alpha stage with 2 working skill trees, anyways.
im coming out with this release since i want to get back data and feedback from people to improve my work

so yea. this is a class ive been working on called the plaguelord(name is still tbd)
its a class which plays as a fast paced summoner/fighter hybrid. requiring constant resource management and constant action to do battle WITH your pets/minions
unlike standard summoner archetypes ive tried my best to steer away from the "sit back and let your summons wreck everything" formula,
although the option to do this is still present within the class, but it has greater drawbacks than playing a standard summoner

the main driving force of this class is its innate ability to summon minions just by hitting things, although its greatly limited by your charge bar, which depletes extremely quickly and becomes more difficult to charge the more you gain, the mana costs of your multi hit skills also contribute to these limitations.
the summons themselves are quite weak and don't last long but can be enhanced by passives and skills, there are also multiple skills which deal hybridized pet and master damage allowing you more flexibility into your itemization.

anyways enough about the class mechanics, just head right in and play it!,
there are still alot of balance issues to be sorted and the last tree needs to be completed, but what im mostly looking for is how the class feels to play, and its fun factor

if you guys ask i can put in some pics/ preveiws, but im too lazy atm :lol:
cheers and have fun with this!

EDIT:
well it seems like i fixed a problem as RnF pointed out some things have become missing,
i derped extremely hard and accidentally used the remove files function as i packed the mod, and had a bunch of stuff be set to be removed while the mod is active,
you should restart your characters, since certain affixes may be missing from them and you wont gain them back
ill be putting up a hotfix now, sorry guys :oops:

EDIT:
updated with a steam link
replaced the outdated RGF link

STEAM
RGF
«1

Comments

  • RnFRnF Posts: 1,000
    I will try this out for sure! Sounds fun.
  • RnFRnF Posts: 1,000
    Had a chance to play a character to around level 7. Pretty fun skills and feels pretty good (especially with 2 hand weapons).

    Some issues I have come across.

    There seems to be some kind of conflict with some affixes with your mod. I wasn't sure if it was one of my mods or yours, so I uninstalled all mods except yours. The issues were still there.

    1. Ember Chips are blank, they are not showing any affix bonuses.
    2. Some sets are missing their set bonuses, Ghastly, Clovenhoof, Runemaster are all missing set bonuses.

    Thing is, when I fired your mod up in GUTS, they all appear fine and I can't see any obvious reason for this. I also fired up the game with all my mods to verify something wasn't wrong with my game install. Bonuses showed up correctly when I uninstalled your mod.

    3. Minion spawn seems to low. I haven't been able to spawn one yet. I don't have any gear that will increase charge rate or decrease charge decay, so maybe this is intentional. I can really see the potential with this mechanic though and I love the idea.

    4. Charge decay rate maybe a bit high? I haven't been able to get my charge over 1/2 the bar yet (once again, charge gear is very valuable for this character so may not be an issue once I get better gear)

    Great so far other than those issues. This class has a lot of potential and I love how vital you are making the charge bar mechanic. With most classes it's just an after thought, with this one I am watching the bar constantly and trying to get it as high as possible. Keep up the good work, I will play this guy for awhile I think :)
  • thanks for the feed back :D
    RnF wrote:
    Had a chance to play a character to around level 7. Pretty fun skills and feels pretty good (especially with 2 hand weapons).

    Some issues I have come across.

    There seems to be some kind of conflict with some affixes with your mod. I wasn't sure if it was one of my mods or yours, so I uninstalled all mods except yours. The issues were still there.

    1. Ember Chips are blank, they are not showing any affix bonuses.
    2. Some sets are missing their set bonuses, Ghastly, Clovenhoof, Runemaster are all missing set bonuses.

    Thing is, when I fired your mod up in GUTS, they all appear fine and I can't see any obvious reason for this. I also fired up the game with all my mods to verify something wasn't wrong with my game install. Bonuses showed up correctly when I uninstalled your mod.
    really wondering whats causing this since ive barely touched on making items or item sets at all, im cross referencing all the names of my affixes with the ones on the original, ive also done some tests and when i try to spawn things through the console i get weird items with no stats or items with
    -8% to all armor and
    pull resistance :shock:
    ive done tests prior to my mod release and everything was fine, maybe it has something to do with the way i packed the modfile, since i renamed it and all.
    ill try to get these fixed asap, thank you :D
    RnF wrote:
    3. Minion spawn seems to low. I haven't been able to spawn one yet. I don't have any gear that will increase charge rate or decrease charge decay, so maybe this is intentional. I can really see the potential with this mechanic though and I love the idea.

    4. Charge decay rate maybe a bit high? I haven't been able to get my charge over 1/2 the bar yet (once again, charge gear is very valuable for this character so may not be an issue once I get better gear)
    yea it should be really low, i found that being able to summon minions at such early levels was way to powerful, so i capped the classes summoning power at early levels. the charge bar should decay extremely fast since the rewards for keeping it up are so immense,
    your power and how hard and fast you hit essentially determines how much you can summon, it's much more natural for this type of summoning method since you have to prioritize on hitting things a lot, you should be beefing up your dps, and not jut going pure tank stats like most standards summoners do.
    [EDIT]
    the low minions spawn also had something to do with the bug, since i accidental removed a bunch of affixes, it seems like i ended up removing the one that lets you spawn minions in the 1st place :oops: , but the hotfix i put up solves this problem, if you re roll a new character, your old one will still be missing the summoning affix, sorry bout that
    RnF wrote:
    Great so far other than those issues. This class has a lot of potential and I love how vital you are making the charge bar mechanic. With most classes it's just an after thought, with this one I am watching the bar constantly and trying to get it as high as possible. Keep up the good work, I will play this guy for awhile I think
    yea the charge bar mechaninc is like its own little minigame, but the charge bar isnt vital, its merely there as an option
    gaining charge and building around it isn't something you should conform to in this class, it can be played functionally without the use of summons since ive skewed the power of multi hit skills(more summoning potential) versus burst damage skills(much higher damage output) to give each type a different purpose in terms of how you build your character, as a summoning maniac(1st tree), or (as of now) a burst damage oriented tank(2nd tree). of course you can mix and match and come up with something completely different, im trying to design the trees to be as flexible with each other as possible.

    again thanks for the feedback, i cant wait for more :D
  • gytfunkegytfunke Posts: 571
    Managed to get just a short little time in with the Plaguelord and I really like your Plaguebolt spell. However, it tends to wander off cliffs and into abysses. Also, plaguebolt's damage is based on weapon damage, not DPS. This may be intentional on your part. Personally, I don't like using that setting for anything that doesn't use the weapon's standard attack animation since it suddenly makes lower DPS but slower weapons more powerful for this spell.

    The minions seem well balanced.
  • gytfunke wrote:
    Managed to get just a short little time in with the Plaguelord and I really like your Plaguebolt spell. However, it tends to wander off cliffs and into abysses.
    yea, the missile of plaguebolt is kinda random, this happens because the homing time on its bounces is set to give the effect of the missile flying away then back into its target after it hits, if i set the homing time too low the missile would literally stick onto its target rapidly bouncing as it follows it and not have the aesthetic effect of bouncing at all, it would also make it way too strong as a multi hit skill. that's why i added erratically in the description.
    ive tried other ways to make the missile much more reliable but ultimately it led me to this version, its still unreliable but not as much as when i started my tests, it may also need a mana cost buff since the missile is the way it is
    gytfunke wrote:
    Also, plaguebolt's damage is based on weapon damage, not DPS. This may be intentional on your part. Personally, I don't like using that setting for anything that doesn't use the weapon's standard attack animation since it suddenly makes lower DPS but slower weapons more powerful for this spell.
    i made this skill not to encourage building dps, but to encourage equipping high dps weapons(2handers) since one of the most important passives for a minion master based build uses your dps to buff your summons,
    the attacking skills in the 1st tree are not ment to really deal damage at all, they are just a way to more reliably summon minions, since they hit so often
  • I like this class a lot so far and I'm really pumped for the last tree.

    Even with only 2 trees I'm still having trouble picking what skills I want to use cause they all look so good.

    Only suggestion I have right now is to make Overpower (the first skill in the second tree) be bindable to left click. I LOVE the animation for it and would use it all the time if I could put it to left click.

    I will report back later with more notes, after I've played some more.
  • thank you very much :D

    your 1st request is done

    and ive started to develop the 3rd skill tree.
    but updates are slow, since ive got other stuff to do

    thanks again for the support
    cant wait for the feedback!
  • PhanjamPhanjam Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭
    Hi Twinkletoes! Cant believe i missed this post of yours; got some time tonight and am excited to try the Plaguelord :D
    Torchmodders
    Torchlight 1 Class Pack (TL1CP) Mod for TL2: Steam | RGF
  • TwinkleToesTwinkleToes Posts: 343
    hay guys
    im coming out with an update today, didnt get much feed back, but its fine, since i want this to be low exposure
    i managed too eek out this update with the limited time ive had over the past couple of months,
    got a good chunky holiday coming up, so i can do a bit more modding

    anyway.

    -ive done a bunch of changes to the current skills, but there are too much to document, for the time frame im trying to use for this message
    -ive also almost completed the 3rd skill tree, only 4 skills to go, 1 is currently being worked on, the next 3 ill somehow imagine :D
    after ive done all that, ill finish up on making the theolentist icons and charge bars
    then do icons for this class

    links are all updated,
    but ive renamed the mod file(all i did was add 2 at the end), so you'll get a completely separate mod from the 1st one that was up, just delete that mod file and chuck in the new one, (tell me if this is inconvenient and ill change it and make the updated mod all the same name, for ease of use)
    im still keeping it an rgf exclusive, but when i finish up the skills, ill go into steam and start beta testing the class

    cheers.
  • PhanjamPhanjam Posts: 3,297 ✭✭✭
    hay guys
    im coming out with an update today, didnt get much feed back, but its fine
    :oops: sorry about that...
    Torchmodders
    Torchlight 1 Class Pack (TL1CP) Mod for TL2: Steam | RGF
  • gytfunkegytfunke Posts: 571
    Feedback is sparse, probably due to this being a slightly older game.

    If you change the mod's file name, I don't think it will work with any characters that were made with the mod when it had its first name. I did that with my mod. Lost a couple of my favorite characters.
  • gulyfmggulyfmg Posts: 15
    Just tried a bit your mod and got to say some skills are pretty sweet and good looking the summon is AWESOME. The swarm of flies (Cant remember the name) the skill were you can turn it on and off and got some flies around you for 5% mana is a bit too much for me it fills the screen and the char. Balance wise i cannot give much feedback since i didn't test it much. Sorry.
  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,342 ✭✭✭
    Twinkletoes! Ohmigosh! I can't believe I didn't see you flittering about the forum. ^_^ I'll give this a try. I've missed playing this sort of character.
    ItfooQF.png
  • TwinkleToesTwinkleToes Posts: 343
    gytfunke wrote:
    Feedback is sparse, probably due to this being a slightly older game.

    If you change the mod's file name, I don't think it will work with any characters that were made with the mod when it had its first name. I did that with my mod. Lost a couple of my favorite characters.
    yea it is an old game, now that i think about it, im also just limiting this mod to rgf users, im especially aiming for dudes like you and the rest of the guys in here who know their way around GUTS and have more experience with modding, since i want to filter feedback based on the fun factor and the creativeness of the class more so than balance, which non modders tend to gravitate towards rather than the actual aesthetics of the mod itself.

    the mod file name thing is a good point, but im to lazy atm, and i think changing it back would cause more problems right now lol, i don't mind if the people already using the mod have to remake their characters, it would be a good experience for them, rebuilding their characters with all of the new changes put into the new one, im guessing :lol:
    gulyfmg wrote:
    Just tried a bit your mod and got to say some skills are pretty sweet and good looking the summon is AWESOME. The swarm of flies (Cant remember the name) the skill were you can turn it on and off and got some flies around you for 5% mana is a bit too much for me it fills the screen and the char. Balance wise i cannot give much feedback since i didn't test it much. Sorry.
    thanks :D, i spent alot of time on the summon, especially making it look like it belongs in TL2 and making people recognize that i made it 8-)
    although there are still some issues with its material files, making the lighting on it reflect too strongly, but i should be able to fix that

    hmm, are the particle effects for the flies too obtrusive?
    i guess i could tone it down, im currently thinking of a way to make the particles for that skill more attractive, since those were made way back when i had less experience with the particles

    don't worry about the balance, the skill design and the way the character plays is what im focusing on for the alpha builds, beta will be the phase when i focus on balance, where i can get more feedback from casual and **** players using steam
    Zidders wrote:
    Twinkletoes! Ohmigosh! I can't believe I didn't see you flittering about the forum. ^_^ I'll give this a try. I've missed playing this sort of character.
    :lol:
    thanks :D, i hope ya enjoy yourself,
    as long as people do that while playing my mods, im happy
  • gytfunkegytfunke Posts: 571
    I played up to level 8 tonight and tried out all the skills that open up to that point (including Sanguine Advance, which is very cool but lags my machine terribly). Most of the skills are top-notch. My favorites by far were the 2nd skills of the 1st and 3rd skill trees. I didn't focus on building a Ritualist (high hp/vit/hp regen), but it the idea intrigues me. I wish Drain were working so I could properly test it (not dealing damage atm).

    The only skill that left me less than impressed was Overpower. The buff/debuff mechanic, because it's a pair of exclusive effects, feels like it should be on a 2s cooldown, utility-style skill. However, it's such a small utility effect that it wouldn't be worth it on a skill with a ~2s cooldown. As it is, though, there's no point in using the skill more than once every 5 seconds, because they're exclusive.

    Love the new particle for Plague Bolt. It totally rocks. Only suggestion I would make is to adjust the range of the skill to be equal to the range of the missile. Oh, and a comment. It goes from sucking at rank 1 to steamrolling everything at rank 4. The increased missile range makes all the difference in the world. Rank 1 frustratingly doesn't normally reach a second target. Rank 4, with its extra range, is pretty consistent and becomes really powerful.

    All of your particles that I've seen so far are spectacular. It's a very visually appealing class.

    Lemme know when you want balance commentary. ;) I still hate the Weapon Damage% on Plague Bolt. But you used WDPS% on Overpower? :o
  • TwinkleToesTwinkleToes Posts: 343
    gytfunke wrote:
    I played up to level 8 tonight and tried out all the skills that open up to that point (including Sanguine Advance, which is very cool but lags my machine terribly). Most of the skills are top-notch. My favorites by far were the 2nd skills of the 1st and 3rd skill trees. I didn't focus on building a Ritualist (high hp/vit/hp regen), but it the idea intrigues me. I wish Drain were working so I could properly test it (not dealing damage atm).
    thanks for the feed back
    -ill fix drain right away.
    -sanguine advance does have lag issues atm, i think i need to tone down its particle components, since it uses alot of 500+ vis quota particles
    -yea im intending the 3rd skill tree to be high risk high reward, it has the hardest hitting skills but has very risky penalties, mostly because hp is the resource used for the skills
    The only skill that left me less than impressed was Overpower. The buff/debuff mechanic, because it's a pair of exclusive effects, feels like it should be on a 2s cooldown, utility-style skill. However, it's such a small utility effect that it wouldn't be worth it on a skill with a ~2s cooldown. As it is, though, there's no point in using the skill more than once every 5 seconds, because they're exclusive.
    this skill actually becomes stupidly powerful the later into the game you get, its main shtick is actually its debuffing effect and the +1 second debuff/buff duration per lvl, at max rank it reduces monster damage by 30% for 20 seconds, consider that trash mobs hit for around 10k on elite by lvl 100, 30% shaved of that is massive, the skill also gains larger aoe, allowing you to mass debuff huge waves of monsters, and a 30% damage increase is not bad for you either

    maybe i may have made the scaling bonuses and scaling duration on this skill a bit too end game heavy, ill be watching for this when i get into beta
    Love the new particle for Plague Bolt. It totally rocks. Only suggestion I would make is to adjust the range of the skill to be equal to the range of the missile. Oh, and a comment. It goes from sucking at rank 1 to steamrolling everything at rank 4. The increased missile range makes all the difference in the world. Rank 1 frustratingly doesn't normally reach a second target. Rank 4, with its extra range, is pretty consistent and becomes really powerful.
    thanks :D
    - the range for the skill is actually further than its normal and improved range(16 meters)
    -its missile range from lvl 1-14 is all the same(10 meters), its probably the bounces which make it super strong the more you level it
    -it doesn't need to reach a second target, since it can hit the same target multiple times based on how much times it can bounce
    All of your particles that I've seen so far are spectacular. It's a very visually appealing class.
    heh thanks :D, ive got an art background so i have to prove that i can apply it to designing a class
    Lemme know when you want balance commentary. ;) I still hate the Weapon Damage% on Plague Bolt. But you used WDPS% on Overpower? :o
    cool :D, ill be on the lookout for balance related stuff when i get this out of alpha

    -plague bolt steam rolls everything even with out WDPS% right?, my intention for plaguebolt is not for its ability to damage stuff but for its ability to hit things multiple times really quickly, which facilitates the summoning mechanic, if i made it do %WDPS it would scale far too strongly as each level gives it an extra hit, which gives it super strong damage scalling
    at lvl 15(20 bounces/hit) it deals 53% weapon damage% x the average of 1-20 hits(since all hits are not 100% guaranteed)
    so 53%x4.2 = 222.6%weapon damage, just for a single bolt, dealing only its average theoretical damage
    switch it to %WDPS and it becomes far too damaging(in my point of view)
    this is probably why its lvl 1-4 is really skewed since it scales really quickly, ill look into its scaling when i go into beta phase, maybe by toning its damage range down and normalizing its theoretical dps

    -overpower on the other hand is intend to be a spamable nuke with strong defensive utility loaded in, for strength users, which rely heavily on weapons, damage wise it doesn't have the scaling of plaguebolt nor does it have the range and multi hit ability plague bolt posses, so i can give it a good bump up in damage by letting it do %WPDS

    thanks again for all the feedback :D
  • gytfunkegytfunke Posts: 571
    Hey TwinkleToes,

    I forgot to mention that I noticed Infestation casts with EVERY hit a player makes. This might cause undue lag with things like Sanguine Advance, Plague Bolt or Plague Locus which add to the number of hits going on at once. And... you don't have to read the rest if you don't want, but...






    ...here's a long read about why I don't like %WDPS on Overpower or % Weapon Damage on Plague Bolt. It mostly comes down to itemization and the way these combinations make weapon advancement unintuitive.

    The problem with %WDPS on Overpower is that the skill also uses the wielder's weapon animation. So it heavily penalizes slow weapons because %WDPS deals, on each hit, the average damage the weapon would do in 1 second.

    For example, you have 2 weapons. One is a greathammer with a damage range of 100-140, weapon speed of 1.4 (DPS of about 85). The other is an axe with damage of 68, weapon speed of 0.8 (same DPS, 85).

    Say Overpower deals 100% WDPS per hit. Each hit with either weapon is going to deal 85 damage. However, because the animation moves based on weapon speed, the greathammer is going to deal 85 damage every 1.4 seconds and the axe is going to deal 85 damage every 0.8 seconds.

    The DPS of Overpower with a greathammer: 60.

    The DPS of Overpower with an axe: 106.25.

    One handed, fast weapons win out big time with this setup and two-handers lose even more. So, one-hander with a shield becomes the obvious choice to win with this skill.

    The inverse is true for Plague Bolt. And %WDPS wouldn't necessarily make the skill deal more damage than %Weapon Damage. Let's use the same example weapons from last time.

    So, weapon damage uses the weapon's damage range on each hit. The cast speed of Plague Bolt is the same whether you're wielding the axe or the greathammer. Let's say that speed is 1 second for the sake of the example and that it deals 100% of Weapon Damage.

    Both weapons have the same DPS. The axe is probably a higher item level than the greathammer, then, since it's 1-handed with equal DPS. Typically, higher level items should do more damage to make them worth picking up, buying or trading out your old weapon for.

    So, let's calculate the DPS of the skill with each weapon equipped. Skill DPS = (Average Damage per hit)*(skill speed).

    Greathammer: 120*1. Skill DPS = 120. This is a huge jump from 85.
    Axe: 68*1. Skill DPS = 68. This is a hit to DPS when wielding a hammer.

    The lower iLevel greathammer is a much better option. But lemme give you another example, one that I ran into last night. I had that Greathammer. It was a green item, iLevel ~5. An iLevel 11 blue greathammer dropped! Let's see how it stacked up to my old hunk o' junk when using my preferred skill:

    Green, iLevel ~5 Greathammer: 100-140 damage, 1.4 weapon speed, 85 DPS.
    Blue, iLevel ~11 Greathammer: 106-130 damage, 0.9 weapon speed, 106 DPS.

    Green, iLevel ~5 Greathammer: 120*1. Skill DPS with Plague Bolt = 120.
    Blue, iLevel ~11 Greathammer: 118*1. Skill DPS with Plague Bolt = 118.

    This made me :( It makes weapon progression wonky. And that is the end of my argument. I shan't bug you about it again.
  • gytfunkegytfunke Posts: 571
    As for Sanguine Advance, you have multiple things going on at once that could be causing lag.

    1) Like I mentioned, on every hit Infestation will fire and it seems to run several statwatchers. This will add to lag.
    2) You have looping damage shapes. For someone with a junker rig like myself, looping layouts (especially if there are multiples) cause lag. Maybe not a concern for those with modern machines.
  • TwinkleToesTwinkleToes Posts: 343
    gytfunke wrote:
    Hey TwinkleToes,

    I forgot to mention that I noticed Infestation casts with EVERY hit a player makes. This might cause undue lag with things like Sanguine Advance, Plague Bolt or Plague Locus which add to the number of hits going on at once. And... you don't have to read the rest if you don't want, but...
    yea it counts for all hits, since its a triggerable, the way i wanted to set it up was to make both flat damage skills and weapon dps based skills procc infestation while basing the procc rate on the amount of charge you have, so i had to do an elaborate set up with statwatchers to get my desired effect, the skill you see on the skill tab is not the actual skill itself, just a board with all the info on what it does and how its summons work
    i have no idea atm on how to fix the potential lagg issues coming from the engine trying to mass compute all the operations, but so far ive had no problems with lagg when i do my own test runs on tl2
    ...here's a long read about why I don't like %WDPS on Overpower or % Weapon Damage on Plague Bolt. It mostly comes down to itemization and the way these combinations make weapon advancement unintuitive.

    The problem with %WDPS on Overpower is that the skill also uses the wielder's weapon animation. So it heavily penalizes slow weapons because %WDPS deals, on each hit, the average damage the weapon would do in 1 second.

    For example, you have 2 weapons. One is a greathammer with a damage range of 100-140, weapon speed of 1.4 (DPS of about 85). The other is an axe with damage of 68, weapon speed of 0.8 (same DPS, 85).

    Say Overpower deals 100% WDPS per hit. Each hit with either weapon is going to deal 85 damage. However, because the animation moves based on weapon speed, the greathammer is going to deal 85 damage every 1.4 seconds and the axe is going to deal 85 damage every 0.8 seconds.

    The DPS of Overpower with a greathammer: 60.

    The DPS of Overpower with an axe: 106.25.

    One handed, fast weapons win out big time with this setup and two-handers lose even more. So, one-hander with a shield becomes the obvious choice to win with this skill.
    i have to read :D, im compelled because you care about my work so much that you would go ahead and post all of this.
    anyways

    what your saying is exactly what i wanted overpower to do, (strong with one handers weak with two handers)
    but dont forget, that overpower has its tier 2 (lvl5) bonus(+20% base cast speed), this helps 2 handers alot but they are still inferior to 1 handers even with this
    the main reason why i wanted 2 handers to be disadvantaged for this skill, is because of the passive.. overlords grip(2h exclusive), which as you can tell gives you a big boost in dps and adds in good utility with its soul collection/mana recovery mechaninc
    adding all the potential damage boosts you can get for two handers with max lvl overpower and overlords grip you can get a massive 79% damage increase, so yea 2 handers will be even or above one handers with all of this, one handers will still give you the benefit of equipping a shield
    but with two handers(if you go for its passive) will give superior mana sustain, especially if your mostly using the 1st skill tree which have huge mana costs
    The inverse is true for Plague Bolt. And %WDPS wouldn't necessarily make the skill deal more damage than %Weapon Damage. Let's use the same example weapons from last time.

    So, weapon damage uses the weapon's damage range on each hit. The cast speed of Plague Bolt is the same whether you're wielding the axe or the greathammer. Let's say that speed is 1 second for the sake of the example and that it deals 100% of Weapon Damage.

    Both weapons have the same DPS. The axe is probably a higher item level than the greathammer, then, since it's 1-handed with equal DPS. Typically, higher level items should do more damage to make them worth picking up, buying or trading out your old weapon for.

    So, let's calculate the DPS of the skill with each weapon equipped. Skill DPS = (Average Damage per hit)*(skill speed).

    Greathammer: 120*1. Skill DPS = 120. This is a huge jump from 85.
    Axe: 68*1. Skill DPS = 68. This is a hit to DPS when wielding a hammer.

    The lower iLevel greathammer is a much better option. But lemme give you another example, one that I ran into last night. I had that Greathammer. It was a green item, iLevel ~5. An iLevel 11 blue greathammer dropped! Let's see how it stacked up to my old hunk o' junk when using my preferred skill:

    Green, iLevel ~5 Greathammer: 100-140 damage, 1.4 weapon speed, 85 DPS.
    Blue, iLevel ~11 Greathammer: 106-130 damage, 0.9 weapon speed, 106 DPS.

    Green, iLevel ~5 Greathammer: 120*1. Skill DPS with Plague Bolt = 120.
    Blue, iLevel ~11 Greathammer: 118*1. Skill DPS with Plague Bolt = 118.

    This made me :( It makes weapon progression wonky. And that is the end of my argument. I shan't bug you about it again.
    it does make weapon progression wonky, and you do get oddities where lower level weapons will out damage higher level weapons, and it makes you sway towards using 2 handers over 1 handers, the thing is the 1st tree is already very strong with one handers, since your mostly focusing on %pet/minion damage and items with the highest pet/minion damage affixes are one handers,

    so i wanted to give some strength to people who like to use slow 2handers when wanting to use plague bolt as a primary dps skill, but deter people from using it as a primary dps skill for one handers and faster attacking weapons since they already have so much inherent benefits.

    i am thinking of maybe changing its damage to be based on the amount of plaguelings(summons) currently active, or the amount of charge you have, but i could always revert it back to %WDPS, but really chunk its numbers down, since it does do **** tons of damage for a skill intended to not do so much damage
    super long segment, i put it into spoilers so it doesn't eat the whole screen
    As for Sanguine Advance, you have multiple things going on at once that could be causing lag.

    1) Like I mentioned, on every hit Infestation will fire and it seems to run several statwatchers. This will add to lag.
    2) You have looping damage shapes. For someone with a junker rig like myself, looping layouts (especially if there are multiples) cause lag. Maybe not a concern for those with modern machines.
    yea sanguine advance is actually a missile which pulses very quickly, each pulse will summon an invisible minion which instanly dies and creates a damage shape which pulses over 5 seconds, to give the trailing buff area of effect, but i still think the main culprit is the particles, ive done some editing to its particles and it does reduce the lagg for me
    i could chunk down the amount of missiles created, i think (theres 5 in there) to something like 2 or 3, and make the trails larger to compensate, -ill give this a try

    thanks for the taking the time to do a lengthy post, your making me think about changes to plague bolt, maybe i should make it more utility oriented instead of
    hit/damage oriented, ill see what i can come up with in the future,
    thanks for the crits/feedback :D
  • gytfunkegytfunke Posts: 571
    Alright, I get the reasoning behind Plague Bolt and Overpower. It makes sense. But, yeah, Plague Bolt deals maybe a bit too much damage with a two-hander.
  • gytfunkegytfunke Posts: 571
    A few more things I've noticed:

    Plague Locus and Overpower: Targeting is weird. If you target an enemy with one of these then move your mouse elsewhere (no clicking even), the character and layout will move to where your mouse is and generally miss your intended target. Try setting Plague Locus to true for PLACEONTARGET at the event level and TARGETTYPE: Position at the skill level. For Overpower, set it to OrientToTarget at the event(?) level and set Attach to false.

    Infestation: grants skill points on skill reset. Just set it to 'hidden' at the skill level and it won't do that, but it'll still show in your skill tree.
  • TwinkleToesTwinkleToes Posts: 343
    gytfunke wrote:
    A few more things I've noticed:

    Plague Locus and Overpower: Targeting is weird. If you target an enemy with one of these then move your mouse elsewhere (no clicking even), the character and layout will move to where your mouse is and generally miss your intended target. Try setting Plague Locus to true for PLACEONTARGET at the event level and TARGETTYPE: Position at the skill level. For Overpower, set it to OrientToTarget at the event(?) level and set Attach to false.

    ive run some test to try and fix this
    anyways
    from my tests ive come up with this:
    it happens when you hold the mouse/button, and the character moves towards your target yea?

    for over power: i just had to switch allow turning off, this will prevent the caster from turning while holding the mouse
    orient to target on overpower will only make the model auto turn to a target(if you dont specify one AKA clicking on ground) within the skills specified
    radius(find target angle) and range

    place on target and target type: position are already set for locus, its coded from venomous hail, so nothing wrong in the targeting department.
    the short range is the culprit(5 range before lvl 5)
    since target type: position will not make the layout snap to your target while your moving(it snaps when you preform the casting animation),
    so when you hold the button to lock in and select a target, then move towards it to cast the skill
    and relocate your mouse while your moving,
    the layout will pop up to where the mouse is, not your intended target.
    setting allow turning off will only make your character not face the position of where your mouse is while casting your skill
    venomous hail doesn't have this problem, since its range is so long your character wont move from its position and
    will keep the targeted position locked in

    this seems to be part of the engine, so i cant do much about it for now, maybe ill look into using invisible minions to get this to work correctly for button holders
    anyways
    to keep this kinda stuff from happening with this skill you'd probably not have to hold your button while your trying to spam or
    not lock in any target so your character doesn't move towards it(holding shift)
    this should be less of an annoyance if you skill up to lvl 5 since it's range will now be 8 instead of 5
    Infestation: grants skill points on skill reset. Just set it to 'hidden' at the skill level and it won't do that, but it'll still show in your skill tree.
    my own advice, turned against me.
    :lol:

    thanks for that
  • gytfunkegytfunke Posts: 571
    Yeah, I don't know quite what's up with the targeting there. I never noticed it before, but I just went and checked similar skills on the Wildling and they totally do it, too. Fiddled around a bunch and I think you might be right, there's no way around it unless you increase your range out to the max clip range. Or... if you were to change the delivery system: Missile>placed AOE shape>profit. You could use an invisible missile with a high enough speed to approximate instantaneousness. Delete out the Target Type field because, really, it seems that TARGET_TYPE:Position is the issue as it directs the layout to your mouse's position at the time of casting.
  • ChthonChthon Posts: 1,855
    Some random thoughts:

    Particles look great! (May I steal them?)

    The tentacles, slimeballs, and bouncy thing earn serious points for creativity. I'm so going to play a slime hurler just because I can....

    I know you don't care so much about balance, but... The leap-in-the-sky thingy seems to be an unlimited-range teleport with negligible cast-time/cooldown. (The tornado thing is also a heck of a teleport compared to the vanilla options, but less outrageous.)

    Sanguine thingy causes lag. (You knew that.)

    Another balance issue: Feels a great deal like the beta berserker did in that charge is all-important. This makes for "tipping-point" style balance where you're either ahead of the curve or behind it, but not so much in the middle.
    Torchlight 2 Rapid Respec - Putting the "hack" in "hack-n-slash"
    StashNinja - INFINITE Stash for Torchlight 2
    NullMod - Play together in the same multiplayer game with different mods!
  • TwinkleToesTwinkleToes Posts: 343
    Chthon wrote:
    Particles look great! (May I steal them?)
    making particles is kinda like art right?
    in that case you may appropriate them.
    so... yea you can go an steal em
    but credits pls :D
    The tentacles, slimeballs, and bouncy thing earn serious points for creativity. I'm so going to play a slime hurler just because I can....
    this is the kinda thing that makes it so satisfying to design characters, since in other peoples minds they can be anything :lol:
    I know you don't care so much about balance, but... The leap-in-the-sky thingy seems to be an unlimited-range teleport with negligible cast-time/cooldown. (The tornado thing is also a heck of a teleport compared to the vanilla options, but less outrageous.)
    -leap thingy is coded from the embermage's frost phase, it has the same range and everything, but it takes longer to get from point a to b since there is a landing time, not instant like frost phase, so its basically a nerfed frost phase, in terms of dps, but has better cc, it does give you an illusion of going really **** far, since you literally fly off the screen lol

    -tornado thingy is coded from berserkers shadow dash, again, same range and everything, but it has the added effect of dragging monsters with you, so it doesn't really help if your using it to get away from things
    Another balance issue: Feels a great deal like the beta berserker did in that charge is all-important. This makes for "tipping-point" style balance where you're either ahead of the curve or behind it, but not so much in the middle.
    its important if your trying to play a certain way with this class

    im assuming to most people who start playing this class, charge would be the no.1 thing on their minds
    but the charge mechanics simply facilitates the main play-style i want this class to represent (mob spawning overlord AKA battle summoner)

    another deal with playing the "main play style" is to make the monsters you summon from getting charge, any useful you'd need to build not just for charge but also for damage, since they only scale minutely with pet/minion bonuses and scale way more heavily with your own dps, that is if you invest skill points

    you could play the class as a heavy dpser and gaining charge wouldn't matter, you'd summon weak meat shield's which die super quickly and as a result don't do much damage(im not 100% sure with this yet, since the class in not optimized to be in a balanced state right now)

    you could even play it as a straight up tank, you'll still be effective at tanking, and charge wont matter, it gives you no bonuses to tanking what so ever. other than, again summoning weak meat shields

    the main thing is, for any play style you use you get the feel of the class, you still get a fraction on the mob spawning overlord, even when you play as a tank or as a dps machine or as a crazed lunatic who doesn't know how to min max :lol:
    you still get your little minions who crawl around with you when you do battle, since gaining charge is an inevitable part of "doing stuff" in this game
    im just making the minion spawning thing another inevitable part of playing this class, you can go ahead and buff the **** out of them(like i want people to do MUAHAHA)
    or
    go away from the flow and chose your own path.
    this version of the class may not be there yet, but that's my ultimate goal for this project, to make a character.. not a class
  • gulyfmggulyfmg Posts: 15
    How goes the project??
  • holy moly its been ages!
    i finally have a substantial amount of time off and decided to work on this mod, ive changed alot of things, but the core of the class is still mostly there

    ive uploaded a version into steam since all the skills are now done
    ive still gotta do the art part
    and maybe balance the class a bit if people give me some feedback
  • ChthonChthon Posts: 1,855
    holy moly its been ages!
    i finally have a substantial amount of time off and decided to work on this mod, ive changed alot of things, but the core of the class is still mostly there

    ive uploaded a version into steam since all the skills are now done
    ive still gotta do the art part
    and maybe balance the class a bit if people give me some feedback

    No love for RGF?
    Torchlight 2 Rapid Respec - Putting the "hack" in "hack-n-slash"
    StashNinja - INFINITE Stash for Torchlight 2
    NullMod - Play together in the same multiplayer game with different mods!
  • lol, as i was posting all the stuff for steam,
    i literally ran out of time, since i was sprung with something to do
    ive added in the RGF link to the OP
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.