2H Polearm Outlander (need HELP)

LaionidasLaionidas Posts: 24
edited December 2014 in Outlander Discussions
So, my brother and I both got Torchlight 1 for free, and liked it so much we bought a 4-pack of Torchlight 2 when it was on sale, monday, on STEAM. We're now created our first character, are on our first normal playthrough with a friend, but I haven't allocated any skill or stat points yet. The friend is an Embermage, my brother is a (1H) Engineer, and I'm an Outlander.

As the title says, I intend to go with polearms. I did some forum strolling and came up with the following base build:

Primary:
- Dodge Mastery
- Share the Wealth
- Elemental Mastery
- Poison Burst
- Burning Leap
- Rune Vault


Secondary:
- Blade Pact
- Stone Pact
- Glaive Throw (rank 5 max)


The Glaive Throw isn't strictly necessary, but seems to benefit nicely from the Poison Burst and Elemental Mastery buffs. Also, a single ranged ability is always handy to open those pesky TNT barrels and such. Now about stats; I'm not quite sure what to do here. Str:Dex 1:1, 3:2, 2:1, or do I need to invest some points in Focus as well? If so, how much? Str:Dex:Foc 1:1:1, 2:2:1, 3:2:1? Will I need the mana from Focus, and is the elemental damage increase it provides worth it? Also, the advantages of Dexterity are capped, but when should I stop investing in the stat? As this is my first Torchlight 2 playthrough, I am really clueless, and could use some help/advice.

Thanks,

Comments

  • The Glaive Throw isn't strictly necessary, but seems to benefit nicely from the Poison Burst and Elemental Mastery buffs.

    Glaive Throw doesn't activate Poison Burst, so you will need to use a skill that has a weapon component, or normal attack for Poison Burst to proc IIRC.

    Str:Dex 1:1, 3:2, 2:1, or do I need to invest some points in Focus as well? If so, how much? Str:Dex:Foc 1:1:1, 2:2:1, 3:2:1? Will I need the mana from Focus, and is the elemental damage increase it provides worth it? Also, the advantages of Dexterity are capped, but when should I stop investing in the stat?

    I tend to play Focus based builds, so with that caveat in mind. Personally I leave Dex at 55. I've played chars with everything into Dex, and nothing into Dex, and for me 55 seems to be the sweet spot. I don't bother with Dodge Mastery since AFAIK there's a narrow range of type of attacks that you can dodge, and other things like blocking, moving your character away (actual moving, or using Rune Vault or Burning Leap), will have a more noticeable effect than dodge.

    100 Vitality if you decide to use a shield on a secondary weapon switch.

    Basically I use the following stat planning for all the 4 classes, and I find it works for me even in Elite difficulty, YMMV and such.

    - Dex at 55.
    - Vit at nothing if you're going shieldless all the time. 100 if you want to use shield. I tend to put 100 even if my char is using a 2 handed weapon or dual wielding, because there are certain times where\when I do want to use a shield. Going through the Luminous Arena (especially in Elite difficulty) for example.
    -Strength or Focus, decide on what you prefer for the char, and put everything into that. I usually choose Focus because I like having the larger mana pool vs Strength based builds, but again YMMV.
  • embermanemberman Posts: 729
    The best advice I can give you is just to have fun. Melee outlander is pretty terrible. I wouldn't recommend it above softcore veteran.

    If you want a ranged skill, go with Cursed Daggers. It gives you the damage reduction that melee classes have by default. Glaive Throw doesn't synergize with a melee strength build. Weapon damage scales with strength so you want mostly that. Avoid focus because I don't think there are any polearms that do primarily elemental damage.
  • Well, we have been playing up to lvl 28, and I can now tell it does NOT work. It is not necessarily a bad build, in fact I have been outdamaging my teammates by a large margin for most of the game, but the problem is that most of the builds survivability comes from CC and escapes. That in itself is not necessarily a problem either, but it is when you're playing with an Embermage and an firey Engineer that are consistently blasting all kinds of effects all over the screen. It is just very difficult to properly time your attacks and escapes, as you're basically blinded, making it very frustrating to play. "Share the Wealth" and the Pacts are absolutely amazing though.

    It's still a nice build to play, just more for singleplayer I think. I will keep playing this Outlander character in a party, but convert to a Shotgonnne build:

    Primary:
    - Shotgonne Mastery 15/15
    - Share the Wealth 15/15
    - Rune Vault 01/15
    - Stone Pact 15/15
    - Venomous Hail 10/15
    - Shadow Shot 15/15
    - Poison Burst 10/15
    - Master of the Elements 15/15


    Secondary:
    - Venomous Hail 15/15
    - Dodge Mastery 05/15
    - Poison Burst 15/15
    - Blade Pact 10/15
    - Rapid Fire 10/15
    - Bramble Wall 01/15


    Tertiary:
    - Dodge Mastery 10/15
    - Blade Pact 15/15


    Str:Dex / X:110
  • It is not necessarily a bad build, in fact I have been outdamaging my teammates by a large margin for most of the game, but the problem is that most of the builds survivability comes from CC and escapes.

    Yup. Melee outlander is not necessarily impossible, but it's definitely not a forgiving playstyle especially as you go further in the game. A shotgun build hybrid combo skill however, can definitely work.
    It's still a nice build to play, just more for singleplayer I think. I will keep playing this Outlander character in a party, but convert to a Shotgonnne build:

    Primary:
    - Shotgonne Mastery 15/15
    - Share the Wealth 15/15
    - Rune Vault 01/15
    - Stone Pact 15/15
    - Venomous Hail 10/15
    - Shadow Shot 15/15
    - Poison Burst 10/15
    - Master of the Elements 15/15

    I have a couple of outlander hybrids that are similar in general to what you just listed, and one of them is playing in elite difficulty without too much frustration. The highest one currently is in NG++.

    Though personally I skipped Dodge Mastery, no Curse Daggers (I use Chaos Burst or just plain Glaive Throw instead) and no Blade Pact. I use Burning Leap instead of Rune Vault simply because I like how the animation is basically the Dragon Punch from StreetFighter, and Chaos Burst instead of Shadow Shot. And for the melee part 10 points into Glaive sweep, and maxed out Burning Glaive. Burning Glaive admittedly doesn't receive a lot of love from players, and for the most part they're right. But it becomes less worse at least when CtC proc like Glacial Spike and Thunder is added to the mix.

    Basically it's a Focus based hybrid gun and glaive (including the weapon based glaive skills) version of the Spell Trigger outlander.
    viewtopic.php?f=42&t=48730
  • embermanemberman Posts: 729
    Rapid Fire + Shotgun Mastery is a terrible combination. In short, that combo has too much knockback and too little damage, like a Repulsion Hex you have to manually press. You won't be killing anything with that.
  • emberman wrote:
    Rapid Fire + Shotgun Mastery is a terrible combination. In short, that combo has too much knockback and too little damage, like a Repulsion Hex you have to manually press. You won't be killing anything with that.

    That was why I allready only had it as a secondary and tertiairy skill, but I might drop it completely then. Even if it would work, it would annoy the **** out of my melee party members :P
    I have a couple of outlander hybrids that are similar in general to what you just listed, and one of them is playing in elite difficulty without too much frustration. The highest one currently is in NG++.

    Though personally I skipped Dodge Mastery, no Curse Daggers (I use Chaos Burst or just plain Glaive Throw instead) and no Blade Pact. I use Burning Leap instead of Rune Vault simply because I like how the animation is basically the Dragon Punch from StreetFighter, and Chaos Burst instead of Shadow Shot. And for the melee part 10 points into Glaive sweep, and maxed out Burning Glaive. Burning Glaive admittedly doesn't receive a lot of love from players, and for the most part they're right. But it becomes less worse at least when CtC proc like Glacial Spike and Thunder is added to the mix.

    Basically it's a Focus based hybrid gun and glaive (including the weapon based glaive skills) version of the Spell Trigger outlander.
    viewtopic.php?f=42&t=48730

    From what I understand Chaos Burst or Shadow Shot is a matter of preference. Where CB offers indoor bouncing and amazing room clearing, SS has better performance outdoors and against single targets, better accuracy, and range. I went with SS mainly for the extra range and accuracy, but also the animation, and because I don't seem to have issues with fragments not homing.

    Glaive Sweep might be something I have to look into, especially as SS doesn't generate charge (while GS is said to excell at that). Burning Leap instead of Rune Vault could also be a good idea, as I dislike RV's mechanic where you jump away from what you're pointing at, rather than towards what you're pointing at. Regarding Glaive Throw though: do you keep it at rank 1, or take it to 5?
  • From what I understand Chaos Burst or Shadow Shot is a matter of preference. Where CB offers indoor bouncing and amazing room clearing, SS has better performance outdoors and against single targets, better accuracy, and range. I went with SS mainly for the extra range and accuracy, but also the animation, and because I don't seem to have issues with fragments not homing.

    I've heard the same thing, but after trying it out for myself, frankly I think the point about the outdoor vs indoor performance of the two is somewhat exaggerated. CB and SS in my own experience at least, can both kill regular monsters fine in both type of areas. The main difference that makes me prefer CB is the casting speed, since SS is slower vs CB. But SS is available earlier vs CB, and a player's build\play style certainly has a large part in it. Since I tend to lean towards Focus based builds, and my damage comes from CtC proc and stacking DoTs, I favor speed and CB fits my char playstyle well. For others with a different playstyle, that may not be applicable.

    Rapid Fire for example. I have a spell trigger outlander that have 10 pts in it, with shotgun mastery, and I have no problem with killing monsters with it. In elite NG5 even. Though Venomous Hail + Shotgun Mastery is probably the King\Queen at shutting down act Bosses cold, RFire + Shotgun mastery can also do the job, especially for younger chars that doesn't have access to VHail yet.

    However it is true that Rapid Fire and Shotgun Mastery wasn't the one that technically killed the monsters, Rapid Fire merely delivered the CtC and DoT for my char, and Shotgun Mastery disrupted the monsters AI with it's awesome "Blind". And to be clear, I don't use -only- Rapid Fire, and not every outlander I play have 10 points or even any points into RF. It's merely one possible option given by the game. If I just use RF and nothing but, it's almost a guarantee my char would die sooner than later, and often. But I think that would be true if I substituted RF with VHail.
    Glaive Sweep might be something I have to look into, especially as SS doesn't generate charge (while GS is said to excell at that). Burning Leap instead of Rune Vault could also be a good idea, as I dislike RV's mechanic where you jump away from what you're pointing at, rather than towards what you're pointing at. Regarding Glaive Throw though: do you keep it at rank 1, or take it to 5?

    GS with Bramble (attacking your own bramble for example) is a good charge generator. VHail with Bramble might be slightly slower vs GSweep for charge building but can do it at a distance, and obviously not available for chars under lvl 42. Poison Burst, Bramble Wall, and Bramble Wall exploding in poison burst + CtC among monsters with Venomous Hail, is really, really satisfying, well for me at least. Hypothetically GSweep can similarly do it, but in practice it can be a bit trickier to do.

    Agreed with RVault vs Burning Leap. I've had test chars that had maxed RVault, I understand how it's used, but bottom line is, I simply like Burning Leap better for such serious quantifiable reasons as, Shoryuuuken!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cNBX6j-ie8

    Glaive Throw IMO, can work at either 1 or 5, it depends on your general build plan. Short answer, I found either or can work even in the late game.

    ps. Reading back the original post, I think it's not impossible to have a polearm wielding melee outlander as long as you have some ranged attack option, but if I were to do it I probably would not be using normal attack with it beyond the early stage of the game. Essentially I would use GSweep, B-Leap and or RVault, with some B-Glaive, and the weapon would be a stat stick, or a proc and DoT source for those skills (since I am admitedly biased towards Focus). IIRC some of the Uniques polearms have elemental damage components to them. It's probably not a "build this, easily 'win' the game with one push of a button" type of build, but it can still be something of a fun puzzle to figure out how to make it work.
  • Well, I got a pretty good idea about where to take my Outlander now. Thanks all!

    That only leaves me with some 2H gear, and a concept I hate to let go to waste. I'm keeping the Shotgonne Outlander for multiplayer, and am making a singleplayer Polearm Zerker to satisfy my 2H craze :P

    viewtopic.php?f=44&t=60368

    I've created a separate thread for that in the apropriate forum section (see above link).



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