Bring Torchlight I and II to android!

artasdmcartasdmc Posts: 4
edited April 2015 in TL2 General Discussions
Title!
It would be a really great experience to just lay down on your bed and play some good ol' torchlight.
Phones from 2013 already have capable hardware to do so, with snapdragon 800 cpu with adreno 330 gpu it should run it quite well.
You can even emulate dreamcast, psp, nds and more on android.

The only problem for it would be the control scheme and UI. Mostly spell casting.
But that's fixable by adding less spells on the quick bar and etc.

Comments

  • SerkevanSerkevan Posts: 1,586
    I think the main problem would be the RAM, seeing as systems with 2GB already struggle with it. If they can get past that they still have the problem of making a touchscreen work for such a click-intensive game...
  • artasdmcartasdmc Posts: 4
    Serkevan wrote:
    I think the main problem would be the RAM, seeing as systems with 2GB already struggle with it. If they can get past that they still have the problem of making a touchscreen work for such a click-intensive game...

    High end 2013 phones already came with 2GB of ram. Also android uses less RAM for Operating system itself. 2014-2015 high end smart phones come with 3GB of RAM.
    It shouldn't be a problem, the only problem is the controls, you'd have to nerf spell bar to only few spells at the same time for it to work.
  • gold163gold163 Posts: 4,852
    The only problem is the controls, besides the fact that android typically runs on low-power ARM/RISC SoC hardware that the game engine probably isn't equipped to handle well (because why would it be), the fact that Android is an OS designed around mobile applications and thus is optimized for handling system resources in a manner that wouldn't benefit desktop gaming at all, the fact that there is virtually no market for an Android port of TL2 and I dare you to provide statistics to prove otherwise, the fact that this would cost Runic tons of time and money even if they were to outsource it (look at the Mac port) etc. etc.

    Contrary to popular belief just having enough RAM doesn't mean your system is capable of running software that wasn't coded to run or even start on it. And no, coding the software to run on your system isn't the "solution" here.

    "B-but it can run Dreamcast games! DREAMCAST!"

    Yeah, no, that's not how this works.
    cxNEL.png
  • artasdmcartasdmc Posts: 4
    gold163 wrote:
    The only problem is the controls, besides the fact that android typically runs on low-power ARM/RISC SoC hardware that the game engine probably isn't equipped to handle well (because why would it be), the fact that Android is an OS designed around mobile applications and thus is optimized for handling system resources in a manner that wouldn't benefit desktop gaming at all, the fact that there is virtually no market for an Android port of TL2 and I dare you to provide statistics to prove otherwise, the fact that this would cost Runic tons of time and money even if they were to outsource it (look at the Mac port) etc. etc.

    Contrary to popular belief just having enough RAM doesn't mean your system is capable of running software that wasn't coded to run or even start on it. And no, coding the software to run on your system isn't the "solution" here.

    "B-but it can run Dreamcast games! DREAMCAST!"

    Yeah, no, that's not how this works.

    I'm not saying it would instantly run if they just straightly ported it. But the hardware is evolving extremely fast. In numbers, well in GPU apartment, newest Adreno 430 mobile GPU chip has 324~388.8 Gflops. 3 times more than the 2013 fastest mobile GPU.

    And for sales, let's take a look, google doesn't give you exact numbers but they give you downloads:
    Max Payne - 100 000–500 000.
    GTA: III - 1 000 000–5 000 000.
    GTA: Vice City - 500 000–1 000 000.
    GTA: San Andreas - 500 000–1 000 000.
    World of Goo - 500 000–1 000 000.
    Monument Valley - 100 000–500 000.
    Minecraft Pocket Edition - 5 000 000–10 000 000.

    And etc. The well known games sell well on android, lesser known ones don't.
    The biggest problem with android is piracy, it's a lot easier than if compared to PC. You just install the apk and that's it.
    Monument Valley devs reported that only 5% were legal copies. Their game sent data to their servers so they got the info about the piracy.
    They're really not disappointed, they said that it's, 1: Free marketing, 2: People like it, 3: Those who pirated it wouldn't have bought it anyways.

    That's why market is filled with free games. There are lots of PC good ports on android with not so big numbers, but most of them are turn based strategy games. Like shadowrun, banner saga, baldurs gate and etc. Kids these days don't like those type of games.

    I don't know about the price for porting, but if really huge budget is not needed, I don't see why Runic shouldn't try it.
    If you gain even 5% more than you spent on porting, it's worth it. Because people will remember the game if you think of porting a sequel, and you get new customers. Even the old ones like me, I bought both Torchlight I & II on PC but I'd gladly buy it on my mobile.

    Heck Runic could make it free to play with micro-transactions. Torchlight isn't a PVP game, you can easily sell pay to win gear on the store for casual players. As long as you don't make it too hard for normal players.
  • ChthonChthon Posts: 1,855
    1. Only a tiny minority smartphone owners have a smartphone with the very, very top-end components you're suggesting. Maybe in ten years that will be different, but not today.

    2. I don't think there's enough RAM. Integrated GPUs don't have dedicated RAM, so the GPU, the operating system, the program itself, and, on android, the numerous programs serendipitously running in the background so that they can steal your personal and location information and sell it to advertisers, are all competing for the same 2GB of RAM. Additionally, there's no HD, so paging to VRAM is impossible. (By comparison, the video card in my desktop has 2GB of RAM that belong solely to the GPU.)

    3. Adreno doesn't support DirectX or OpenGL; instead it supports their feature-stripped cousins, DirectX Mobile and OpenGL ES. That's a huge problem. In the best case scenario, it would mean someone would have to go through the source for the entire ORGE engine (which Runic did not write) and strip out everything that uses the features that those feature-stripped APIs don't support. That would be a **** ton of work. In the worst case scenario, TL2 actually uses an OGRE feature that uses one of those unsupported API features, so you have to either strip the feature from TL2 (if the feature is unimportant) or give up the port as impossible (if the feature is important).

    4. There's unsolvable interface problems.
    a. TL2's system of skill activation is simply not possible with a touchscreen. This is not just a matter of fiddling with the skillbar. It's a matter of inability to handle simultaneous inputs. The basic paradigm for activating a skill in TL2 is "keyboard picks which skill" + "mouse picks the target." How do you do that with a touchscreen? First click the skill you want in the skillbar, then click the target? Doesn't work because it's slow as ****. Use multitouch so that one finger picks the skill and the other picks the target? Three problems: 1. Multitouch tends to have accuracy issues. (And doing it accurately requires expensive hardware and dedicating a lot of clock cycles to touch sensing.) 2. You've now got an entire edge of the screen that you can't target for skill activation, since it's going to look like to two skill selects rather than a skill select plus a target select. ("Monsters attacking from the bottom of the screen? Sorry, can't target them. Ask them to come closer.") 3. Now you can't see a **** thing because multitouch requires getting your hand up over the screen. And that's not even the end of it. Let's say I want to use Arcbeam and chug a mana potion so that I can keep Arcbeam going longer. That's a mouse drag for targeting, plus a button hold for skill activation, plus another button press and release for the potion. How are you going to do that on a touch screen? Triple touch? I'm sure that's going to be fast, accurate, intuitive, and not block your view at all...
    b. The screen size is too small for proper targeting. At typical smartphone sizes, targetable objects are going to be much smaller than a fingertip. Which one of the half dozen monsters under your finger are you trying to target? Maybe you could use a stylus, but (1) styli are lame, and (2) it may not solve the problem unless your touchscreen resolution is sufficiently high. (I know my phone's touch resolution certainly isn't.)
    The bottom line is that it just ain't gonna work. Touch screens work for things like Candy Crush, not real games. There's just not suitable things like Street Fighter; nor are they suitable for TL2.

    So, in sum, TL2 on smartphones is not possible.

    (All that said, I'd like to see the Linux version of TL2 compiled for ARM so that I can tuck it away for that distant day when I'm ready to replace my desktop with a cluster of Raspberry Pis. No rush though.)
    Torchlight 2 Rapid Respec - Putting the "hack" in "hack-n-slash"
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  • NeophytoiNeophytoi Posts: 3,539
    Chthon wrote:
    ...Raspberry Pis...

    Funny you should mention that...

    Me, I'm still waiting for HQ to release a haptic patch, and then I'll be up to doin' some serious gaming! :)
    never let your hatred of people who would bar you from the Inviolable House of Worship lead you into the sin of aggression: but rather help one another in furthering virtue and ****-consciousness, and do not help one another in furthering evil and enmity
  • turnipzturnipz Posts: 1,308
    There is no way this is possible, they cant even bring torchlight 2 to consoles not to mention something running a 5w processor. Just look at the minimum specs, its not possible.
  • NeophytoiNeophytoi Posts: 3,539
    What do you mean I cannot play the game on my TI-55?!?

    Dammit all - optimize! :mrgreen:
    Ready for action!
    TI-55-II.jpg
    never let your hatred of people who would bar you from the Inviolable House of Worship lead you into the sin of aggression: but rather help one another in furthering virtue and ****-consciousness, and do not help one another in furthering evil and enmity
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