My gripe about TL2 and Runic

falofalo Posts: 54
edited September 2015 in TL2 General Discussions
Now I'm sure there steadfast few will rise to Runic's defense (they definitely won't themselves) but I would like to vent my frustration and disappointment in Runic Games developer support of TL2 which has ultimately lead to the death of this game.

Yes it is dead... It has seriously been one of the most weirdest anti-climaxes in terms of content progression and developer support I've ever seen.

On release it was amazing, great game - Not without its bugs but hey, no game is perfect on release and it all takes ironing out. There was a few patches and some added content and then roughly a year after release input from the developers started to die away and then shortly after the "beginning of the end" so to speak all feedback in terms of updates/new content ceased. You have a few steadfast supporters left who stand by the games popularity, the fact that there is a community of "modders" and number of game sales etc. In all honesty the level (or lack of) support from the developers in terms of fixing bugs, adding new content, or even making an effort to show they still somewhat care about the game has been a big disappointment in my eyes.

Not implementing a ladder system was a little disheartening at the start but there was always the hope the perhaps there maybe one at some point. Some people like to rubbish ladders and say they are not required but in all honesty... They keep people coming back time and time again (Diablo 2 LoD Ladder Reset always gets me fired up for another ladder run!)

It actually seems like they made the game and put a little bit of effort in and then simply dropped everything and no longer care. I was super excited when it came out and genuinely thought there is some great potential for the game to become a **** of a lot more than what it ended up being. But now all that is left is a vanilla husk, largely unplayed, still with some bugs that make certain modes/content unplayable and a small community of fan-based modders who make semi-decent versions of the game but ultimately limited to mods.

I sometimes check back here (like now) with that childish hope that MAYBE for some unbeknown reason, the developers randomly decided that indeed the game is worthy and to give it the support that it deserved from the get go... But to date, just disappointment, spam filled forums and limited responses... Most of those responses from random new comers that decide to give the game a go, see its potential but ultimately move on after a short period of time when they realize there is no one online to play with and support has all but dried up.

I now play Path of Exile as that is the next best game (I still prefer Torchlight 2,) which has a very active and supportive developer team who make regular contact with fans/players through reddit, constantly keep players in the loop of up and coming changes/potential new content and have made a game that also has a ladder system/challenge leagues with people to play with and compete against (both **** and Softcore.) Those are the only reason I stay with Path of Exile, I really wish the developer support level roles were reversed and that Runic Games were as supportive/active as the developers of Path of Exile are... I would be the happiest gamer!

PLEASE Runic, if you are actually still around at all (Brian?!) please shed a little light on why support for Torchlight 2 died out? I mean why go through all that hard effort to create a game only to drop it and forget? Considering some of you guys were the ol Northrend from the Blizzard Diablo 2 days surely you saw what made Diablo 2 so **** popular and applied something similar to TL2?

Comments

  • SerkevanSerkevan Posts: 1,586
    Some games are not meant to be played forever competitively. That's the end of it. And seriously, stop bringing D2's ladder system up. Not directed to you specifically; that goes for everyone. TL2 is not another Diablo, it never pretended to be, most games don't get patches/continued development beyond some bugfixing, and that's okay.
  • BrianWBrianW Posts: 2,310 admin
    falo wrote:
    ... PLEASE Runic, if you are actually still around at all (Brian?!) ...

    We've all been pretty busy working on our super secret next project. There's not really any more of an explanation than that!
    BrianW
    Community Manager // Mr. Nice Guy

    Join us on Discord! https://discord.gg/runicgames
  • falofalo Posts: 54
    Thanks for the reply... I guess that makes sense, I just don't agree with that style of operating - Probably because I've been spoiled by the developers of PoE.

    Sorry for bringing up the ladder system, but in all honesty it is such an attractive aspect to the game... Especially in todays world, where more and more people are 1 game enthusiasts, and the ones who move from game to game constantly are a minority.

    I'm just sad, that is all... I had really hoped TL2 was going to be the next time sink at the D2 level for me...
  • Yeah of course, compare a MMORPG, which generates constantly Money with Cash-Shop witch an Indie-Game which costs 20 buckets... also Diablo back than as well today is a fullprice Game, which is much more popular. Of Course there are much more patches etc than again an Indie Game. Also in my eyes, the Community generates Patches with Mods, so i don`t see the reason to be butthurt over Runic...

    Also there are still great alternatives: Diablo 3, Grim Dawn and as you said Path of Exile(even though i dont like PoE)...
  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,345 ✭✭✭
    "they definitely won't themselves"

    This assumes they even have anything to defend. That being said as far as answering community call-out's I'd like to direct you to this thread viewtopic.php?f=30&t=67061

    As you can see they're not averse to answering tough critique levied their way...as long as it has some merit.

    "Yes it is dead... It has seriously been one of the most weirdest anti-climaxes in terms of content progression and developer support I've ever seen."

    I see a few thousand people playing it every time I play.

    "all feedback in terms of updates/new content ceased."

    You got a $60 game for $20. What else do you want-a free car? They may be doing OK but they ain't Oprah.

    "You have a few steadfast supporters left who stand by the games popularity, the fact that there is a community of "modders" and number of game sales etc. In all honesty the level (or lack of) support from the developers in terms of fixing bugs, adding new content, or even making an effort to show they still somewhat care about the game has been a big disappointment in my eyes."

    I'll take a complete game with everything included plus free stuff tossed in and modding capability over nickle & dime DLC comprised of content that was made when the rest of the game was. Which do you prefer? Spending $20 and getting $60 in content or spending $60 and getting $20 in content and then spending another $100 to get the rest of your $40 worth?

    "Not implementing a ladder system was a little disheartening at the start but there was always the hope the perhaps there maybe one at some point."

    Runic wants to stay small. Ladders and doing the D3 thing means more people (content devs, security, sub-contractors), more middle managers (bleh), more paperwork, more headache and (most importantly) it costs more meaning a LOT more risk.

    "It actually seems like they made the game and put a little bit of effort in and then simply dropped everything and no longer care. I was super excited when it came out and genuinely thought there is some great potential for the game to become a **** of a lot more than what it ended up being. But now all that is left is a vanilla husk, largely unplayed, still with some bugs that make certain modes/content unplayable and a small community of fan-based modders who make semi-decent versions of the game but ultimately limited to mods."

    You claim to like this game enough to want them to add all these features yet you then go and insult it. Nice backhanded compliment you've got there. That and Semi-decent? Really? Tell you what-go spend a few years making a mod that can compete with Synergies and show it to us and if it proves to be better maybe then I'll agree you have a right to go calling his work 'half-decent'. 'Till then you'll have to pardon me while I roll my eyes.

    "support has all but dried up."

    They help people with legitimate issues all the time. The fact is there's nothing here that merits taking time away from a vital project to answer. ****- I'm only wasting my time doing it because I'm bored and stressed out because of a doctors appointment.

    If you have a serious issue you'll get a response post haste but being clueless about how many people still play this game and being indecisive about whether you actually like it or not is NOT a pressing issue.

    "I now play Path of Exile as that is the next best game (I still prefer Torchlight 2,)"

    See? You can't seem to decide whether you love the game or hate it.

    "which has a very active and supportive developer team who make regular contact with fans/players through reddit, constantly keep players in the loop of up and coming changes/potential new content and have made a game that also has a ladder system/challenge leagues with people to play with and compete against (both **** and Softcore.) Those are the only reason I stay with Path of Exile, I really wish the developer support level roles were reversed and that Runic Games were as supportive/active as the developers of Path of Exile are... I would be the happiest gamer!"

    Path of Exile is an MMO. You're comparing apples & oranges.

    PLEASE Runic, if you are actually still around at all (Brian?!) please shed a little light on why support for Torchlight 2 died out? I mean why go through all that hard effort to create a game only to drop it and forget? Considering some of you guys were the ol Northrend from the Blizzard Diablo 2 days surely you saw what made Diablo 2 so **** popular and applied something similar to TL2?"

    The main reason why the **** players stuck with Diablo 2 is because not only is it a great game there were few like it in the genre. There's a lot more choice now which means it's harder for a game like Torchlight II to attract and keep an audience. If Torchlight 2 doesn't have as much of an active player base it probably has more to do with there being so many choices. Even games like Diablo III and WoW have lost players. Most people are fickle.

    If you want to give Runic more reason to do things bigger and better instead of giving them backhanded compliments give them some constructive feedback and spread the word.
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  • I only have a few gripes about TL2, but I have nothing against Runic in particular. I enjoyed both TL 1 AND TL2, but I honestly think that TL 1 was better in storyline and difficulty balance. I do, however, like both Torchlights more than Diablo 2(difficulty curve was too spiky between trash and act bosses, plus constant running back and forth to such a limited inventory). I do feel that I'm the only one who feels saddened by Syl's death, but I guess it's because I didn't play the main quest of Torchlight 1 more than 1 in a half times.

    Here are my gripes:
    1. Too many cheap deaths, usually caused by too much incoming damage per second, often out dpsing a potion that heals more than full HP, in a matter of less than 0.30 seconds.
    2. Storyline wasn't as fun as Torchlight 1, with more Corruptive Transformations and less Epicness in Climax.
    3. Casual Difficulty shouldn't exist. Normal Mode is easy enough as is, but Elite would sound WAY TOO HARD seeing how Veteran seems harder than TL1's Hard Mode.
    4. Monster Damage Dealt to Players scale too high between difficulties and multiplayer(I'd like to see you survive EHC 5-Player without any Tankgineer Builds).
    5. You never do get to go back to the ruins of Torchlight.
    6. NG+ beyond NG+1 is redundant, as most players wouldn't bother playing the same game as the same character on the same difficulty with the same build and stats for more than once or twice without switching on the mods after the second playthrough.
    7. Too much drama, not enough comedy.
    All in all, the game's still enjoyable, despite certain frustrations. I have yet to try Synergies, and TL2 is STILL better than Diablo 2 in my experience. I was actually looking at Path of Exile, but didn't like it's Online-Only gameplay. I have a huge hatred toward MMOs ever since I got kicked out of a guild that I was in for 2+ years in World of Warcraft, plus I hate the Grinding. I like to be Completionistic and tend to favour Offline Gameplay.

    I am really looking forward to HOB, and hope it's NOT a Multiplayer-Only or an Online-Only game.
  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,345 ✭✭✭
    First-welcome to the community.
    Second-you're not the only one who felt saddened by Syl's death. It wasn't as bad as Cain's death in Diablo 3 but it still felt kinda cheap.
    You never do get to go back to the ruins of Torchlight.

    I get the feeling they were trying to stay away from referencing Diablo I & II too often. The plots to both Torchlight and Torchlight II share themes that are similar to both.
    Too much drama, not enough comedy.

    There's not enough story in general. I do my best not to rant about my issues with Torchlight II's story because it's pretty much beating a dead horse by this point.
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