Just cheated for the first time, but on a test character

ArronSyaoranArronSyaoran Posts: 15
edited September 2015 in TL2 General Discussions
I figured out how to use console commands, and decided to create 2 new characters: 1 a cheat char and the other as a non-cheating control. throughout the process i've managed to never touch my normal playthrough characters once i have the console enabled.

So I played around in cheat mode on my character named "DoctorCheatgun", and realized that i still had access to the shared stash. Being afraid the cheat flag would carry to my main characters, i closed the shared stash window without moving any items. I ended up spawning EVERY item in the game, made sure not to pick up any legendaries, but accidentally got a steam achievement(Century Mark) when i cheatleveled him to 100.

Afterwhich, i went to my non-cheating new char(Bokolove i think was his name) and typed "doicheat" in the console, which returned "no, you did not cheat."

After I did so, I deleted both new characters, and immediately disabled console in the settings file.

And now I'm worried that my normal, non-cheating Main Chars might get the cheat flag for DoctorCheatgun's opening of the shared stash. What's preventing a cheated item from transferring from a cheatchar to a non-cheat char? Is my account flagged as a cheater permanently, even though only DoctorCheatgun(now deleted) was the char that cheated? And how do I undo my cheated Steam Achievement for reaching level 100? All my other achieves so far are legit, and i can only hope that my main mules and normal chars(unused while console was active) are still considered legit.

Also: How does multiplayer tell whether a player is modded or vanilla? is modded/vanilla character specific or account specific? and is it possible to access vanilla game saves while mods are currently installed, or are they separate(like how **** and softcore get 2 different shared stashes)?

I may sound a little paranoid, but I don't want to be permanently considered a cheater just because of one test char, and i don't want to have to delete my non-cheating characters after putting 90 hours into them.

Comments

  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,348 ✭✭✭
    Most of the time modded games can't play with unmodded and vice versa. As far as the cheating flag goes I wouldn't worry about it. You can always google Cthon's Torchlight Rapid Respec. It will remove any cheat flags. For the most part very few people who play care all that much about whether you're carrying cheated items unless you're massively OP and make the game too easy for them.

    I mean just going by how paranoid you are about it i'd say you're the last person who should worry. Most malign cheaters don't care how their gameplay affects others so don't stress over it.
    ItfooQF.png
  • I'm just going to assume that none of my main characters are considered cheaters(by game standards) since my only cheat character was deleted along with his spawned items. TBH I think Multiplayer is actually more fun than having a cheat character now that I think about it.

    If I'm wrong for some reason, then that's when I'm really screwed. Only way to prove it is to inspect me while I'm playing multiplayer, and I usually pick singleplayer when my brother isn't on.

    Maybe once I get all the steam achievements legitimately I'll make another cheat character just for fun. Kinda peeving that I didn't earn century mark legitimately. I will assure that it'll be my only "cheated" achievement, but I'll get a legit char to 100 to prove that it's no longer cheated.
  • NeophytoiNeophytoi Posts: 3,539
    Maybe once I get all the steam achievements legitimately I'll make another cheat character just for fun. Kinda peeving that I didn't earn century mark legitimately. I will assure that it'll be my only "cheated" achievement, but I'll get a legit char to 100 to prove that it's no longer cheated.

    Howdy, Arron, and welcome to the forums!

    Just thought I'd briefly comment on a few of the ideas you've been dropping, and start by observing the folks at HQ have always proposed the game is meant to be whatever the players wish to make of it. This means if you wish to X, do X... no one is likely to call you on it unless you're upsetting the balance of a multiplayer game. For example, if everyone has agreed to play vanilla HC Elite and you've brought a cheated character or item into the game, then it's probably reasonable to expect a few complaints.

    However, I'd also opine that honestly-played games are more enjoyable than those games won through cheating and, therefore, are more likely to offer a lasting or genuine sense of achievement when (if ever) they're completed. Accessing the console and learning how things work really isn't cheating (even if a player who understands the supporting or underlying mechanics of the game is likely at an advantage over a player who does not) IMO, although this is kinda like staying up late on Christmas Eve in an attempt to find out who's really been leaving the presents under ole Tannenbaum.

    Meself, I enjoy taking on games pretty much as the developers released them (bugs and wonky mechanics included) if only to gain a sense of what the designers involved had in mind and how they went about in accomplishing it. Things remain interesting when the players weigh and commence their... ummm... "lively discussions"... as to whether the mechanics actually work, and whether they're both reliable and valid. Makes for interesting and thoughtful reading, particularly when very knowledgeable folks - folks like Chthon, for example - weigh in.

    As for worrying about whole issue of cheating, well... ultimately it's the individual player that has to decide how honest they're being with themselves when it comes to the practice of ethical gaming. For example, some people consider piracy or griefing or in-game trolling acceptable, others do not. Who's to say who's ultimately right? I suspect these sorts of issues probably shouldn't be decided by some sort of vote than determines a majority position, but it probably helps to think what would be likely be accomplished if everyone else did the same.

    Anywho... keep up the great posts, Arron! And, once again, welcome to the forums!
    never let your hatred of people who would bar you from the Inviolable House of Worship lead you into the sin of aggression: but rather help one another in furthering virtue and ****-consciousness, and do not help one another in furthering evil and enmity
  • ChthonChthon Posts: 1,855
    This topic has been posted on many, many times before. Since you're new poster, I suppose you can be forgiven.

    First, it would be wise to heed Neophytoi's words:
    Neophytoi wrote:

    Just thought I'd briefly comment on a few of the ideas you've been dropping, and start by observing the folks at HQ have always proposed the game is meant to be whatever the players wish to make of it. This means if you wish to X, do X... no one is likely to call you on it unless you're upsetting the balance of a multiplayer game. For example, if everyone has agreed to play vanilla HC Elite and you've brought a cheated character or item into the game, then it's probably reasonable to expect a few complaints.

    In spirit and in network design, TL2 is the opposite of games like D3. You are free. No one is going to tell you how to play or not play the game. You can do as you choose. And, generally speaking, what you do affects no one but you. The one exception being multiplayer -- if you choose to ruin someone's day, they will probably choose to votekick you and then ban you from their games in the future. You could say that discipline here is reputational, not authoritarian.

    I am consistently surprised every time I see someone who appears, as you appear, to be completely unfamiliar with this sort of freedom. Perhaps its a sign of my age, but I feel the need to point out that all PC games used to be "open" like this. This concept of closed systems with rules rigidly enforced by a remote server, anti-cheat modules, account bans, etc. is a relatively recent one. It troubles me somewhat that the "closed" model become so predominant.

    It's also worth knowing that there's some unpleasant forum history here. Around the time of the beta, and up through a few weeks after launch, these forums were inundated by sock puppet accounts operated by a handful people from the RMT site d2jsp. The d2jsp people made real world money by selling items in closed-system games where very few players (besides themselves) had the technical wherewithal to cheat. They saw that D3 (which had its beta a little earlier) was not going to be a very good game, and so they tried to create the illusion of mass support for a closed server architecture on the forums in hopes of conning Runic into making TL2 into the kind of game they could profit from. This resulted in some pretty ugly forum flame wars between the sock puppets and various forum regulars. It's still a sensitive topic for some people.
    However, I'd also opine that honestly-played games are more enjoyable than those games won through cheating and, therefore, are more likely to offer a lasting or genuine sense of achievement when (if ever) they're completed. Accessing the console and learning how things work really isn't cheating (even if a player who understands the supporting or underlying mechanics of the game is likely at an advantage over a player who does not) IMO, although this is kinda like staying up late on Christmas Eve in an attempt to find out who's really been leaving the presents under ole Tannenbaum.

    This is sage advice. Different people enjoy different aspects of the game to different degrees. Some people enjoy farming for items; some people find it a chore. Some people enjoy climbing to max level; some people find it a grind. Figure out which aspects of the game you enjoy, and then don't cheat at them. That will only short-circuit your enjoyment of the game. Reserve cheating for the aspects of the game you find tedious and unenjoyable.



    Now, to explain (for what feels like the ten thousandth time) how the cheat flag mechanics works:

    There are three different cheat flags. The end result -- a red exclamation point beside your name in multiplayer -- is the same, but the creation and storage of the flags are different.

    The first flag is the console use flag. This flag gets created by using certain console commands, and it is saved in the save file of the character with which you used the console commands. So, it absolutely, positively does not transfer over to any other character. Moreover, if you know how, you can perform a binary edit on the save file to remove the flag from the character. I've automated this process in the Rapid Respec program (see my signature for link). (The "doicheat" console command tells you about this flag only. It does not tell you about the other two.)

    The second flag is the cheated item flag. This flag gets created when you create an item via the console, and it is saved within the data for the item (which may be located in a character save file or a stash save file, depending on where you put the item). If a character equips a cheated item, that character will appear flagged for only so long as the item is equipped. You can remove the flag from a character by simply unequipping the item. Again, if you know how, you can perform a binary edit on the appropriate save file to remove the flag from the item. I've automated this process for items in the shared stash in the StashNinja program (see my signature for link).

    The third flag is the "sanity check" flag. This flag isn't stored anywhere. Rather, when you join a multiplayer game, the other players' game clients will analyze your character data for certain things that should be impossible, and display the cheater mark if they are found. For example, if your level 5 character has 70 skill points, that would trigger the sanity check flag. (Unless you were both using a mod that made it normal and correct to have that many skill points at that level -- the sanity checker does take mods into consideration when deciding what's sane.) Since this flag isn't stored anywhere, and multiplayer won't work right if you don't give the other clients honest data, there is no practical way to remove this flag. Your only choices are "don't cheat" or "be forthcoming that you're presently cheating." If you somehow manage to accidentally get a character flagged like this (I can't imagine how, but people post here asking for a fix pretty often), the solution is to use the console to fix the character back to correct stats that will pass the sanity check, then remove the console use flag via Rapid Respec.

    About Steam achievements: As far as I know, these are saved server-side, so you cannot fiddle with them. You're stuck with it.
    Torchlight 2 Rapid Respec - Putting the "hack" in "hack-n-slash"
    StashNinja - INFINITE Stash for Torchlight 2
    NullMod - Play together in the same multiplayer game with different mods!
  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,348 ✭✭✭
    Yeah best thing you can do if you have a flagged character or items is let people know. I've had cheated items and flags and never had an issue because I either played with folks I knew or let folks know I had console-spawned items. Someone created some modded throwing axes for me since there are only one level 40 pair of them in game and they don't scale. They made three tiers of them but I made sure they fit their level ranges.
    ItfooQF.png
  • GeistGeist Posts: 128
    Yeah, no one really cares if you cheat, as long as you're not being obnoxious about it. A couple of things to avoid in particular:

    1. Don't lag or crash other players, such as by flooding the screen with Shocking Orbs.
    2. Don't cause other players to inadvertently cheat by way of modded auras. Can't tell you how many times I've picked up 100 gold only to find it was really 100 million, and I personally hate when my "record highest damage" is completely off the scale.
  • Yeah, I used to not be paranoid about cheating back in the 90s, but then Online Gaming came about, and after wasting my life on games like World of Warcraft and RuneScape for about 4 years, I tend to get a paranoia of when it comes to cheating. As of now I absolutely despise Online Gaming, especially MMOs. If it's not the Grinding and lack of completionism, it's the inevitable guild drama. I made a promise a few months ago that not only would I never play an MMO again, I would also never play with people Online that I don't know in real life.

    Just recently, I played modded Minecraft Survival, and was soo tired of farming EU and UU Matter from IC2 that I ended up cheating in Infinite EU, then replacing it with a stack of Iridium for my Ridiculously expensive Gravichestplate. I ended up ragequitting, promising never to use MC Tech Mods again, and will only play in Creative from now on since Modded Survival feels too much like a Grindy MMO. I even wrote a sign stating: "It's better to cheat than to grind." sometime before I blew up my base in anger.

    But I wouldn't cheat in Torchlight 2, unless Normal NG+ proves just as hard as Veteran NG+ when it comes to dying left and right. And if I did cheat, I'd only do it to boost my survivability, since my dps, gold and items are good enough.

    TLDR: They really need to buff Shadowmantle, give it longer uptime and shorter cooldown. It's basically the Outlander equivalent of Engineer's Force Field.
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