Outlander's cast speed affected by weapon attack speed

MickelangelloMickelangello Posts: 12
edited October 2015 in TL2 General Discussions
What title says. I want to start Outlander so i tested some builds on test character and i have noticed that i fire more Shadowshots per time frame when i switch from slow attack speed shotgun to fast attack speed pistol. Same results are with Chaos Burst and Tangling Shot. I thought it must be a bug because this is something that should be affected only by cast speed. So i have tested it withouth gear, with white pistol and shotgun, with empty charge bar and with stopwatch. And the results are clear. You can even see it by naked eye. Rapid Fire and Glaives are not affected by weapon's attack speed.

And my questions are:
1. Why is this not mentioned anywhere?! I've read tons of guides about Outlanders and game mechanics yet i still discovered this critical info by coincidence.
2. Are there other spells whose cast speed is affected by weapon's attack speed?

Comments

  • embermanemberman Posts: 729
    All ranged weapon skills with no cooldown have a base cast time of .7 seconds with shotgun vs .5 with pistols. The actual attack speed on the weapon is irrelevant, it's just the skill shooting animation associated with the entire weapon class is slower for shotguns than for everything else. We don't know if this was intended balance or a bug. I don't know if anything similar applies to melee skills from other classes.
  • Interesting. Thanks for reply. Where did you find this info? I have tested only difference between pistol and shotgun and crossbow and shotgun. Is there any difference between crossbow and pistol?

    I guess nobody is interested in testing weapon classes with all the spells on each character, right? :|
  • gytfunkegytfunke Posts: 571
    emberman wrote:
    All ranged weapon skills with no cooldown have a base cast time of .7 seconds with shotgun vs .5 with pistols. The actual attack speed on the weapon is irrelevant, it's just the skill shooting animation associated with the entire weapon class is slower for shotguns than for everything else. We don't know if this was intended balance or a bug. I don't know if anything similar applies to melee skills from other classes.

    This is not so for Shadowshot. Nor is it necessarily true for all ranged weapon skills. I suspect this is the accurate base cast time for skills such as Venemous Hail.


    TL;DR version:
    Shadowshot casts faster with a faster weapon, and will deal better DPS with a fast weapon than a slow one. This is not the way all skills behave. In fact, there are no other active skills I know of that do this.

    In-depth version:
    The cast time of any skill, melee or ranged, regardless of weapon type, is determined by the same variables. These variables can be found in GUTS and the unpaked TL2 files. Here are the things that affect cast speed:

    1) Animation duration, which you can look at in the animation controller.
    1a)...which means that the USEWEAPONANIMATION boolean in the .dat file of a skill does help modify the cast speed since it declares a skill should use the animation of the equipped weapon. .dats are what you view in the Skill Editor of GUTS.
    2) The SPEED float, declared in the .dat file of a skill.
    3) The IGNORECASTSPEED boolean, again in the .dat of a skill.
    4)And to a lesser extent, breakout duration and minimum cast time. These are also variables in the .dat file.

    So, you start with the animation length being the base cast time. This is modified by cast speed. If the variable 'USEWEAPONANIMATION' is True, then the animation is also modified by the speed of the equipped weapon and any attack speed modifiers.


    If you look at Shadowshot, it has USEWEAPONANIMATION ticked true. It does indeed cast faster with a faster weapon or with bonus attack speed.

    Usually, skills which have USEWEAPONANIMATION toggled also deal weapon damage, rather than weapon DPS. This makes the DPS equal between two weapons of different speeds, but equal DPS (though the faster weapon will make you use mana more quickly because you'll be casting the skill faster). Shadowshot does not use weapon damage, but rather weapon DPS, making faster weapons arguably much better with the skill.

    Emberman, as for your differing base cast speeds between shotgonnes and pistols, I can't confirm if that's true... but this is why it might be. Venomous Hail uses different animations for pistols, shotgonnes, bows and crossbows. The animation duration for pistols may indeed be different than the duration for shotgonnes. The easiest way to check if a skill might use different animations based on weapon type is to go through the animation controller and peruse the different animation versions. But not all of those are used. So the most accurate way is to look through the player unit file and look at the Animation Override tab. Animation Overrides are how a skill knows to use a different animation based on equipped weapon.
  • embermanemberman Posts: 729
    I got the time numbers from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=42&t=53254
    gytfunke seems more knowledgeable in this area. I haven't looked into the editor at all.

    In practice the speed difference is rarely relevant but would be interesting to know anyways. If you are trying to maximize outlander damage output you will be using some sort of dual wielding set-up. Blind by itself is the best reason to use a shotgun. I can't think of any practical advantage to a bow type weapon.
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