Why no expansion?

fede1989fede1989 Posts: 263
edited November 2015 in TL2 General Discussions
Acording to Seteamspy this game sold 2,983,077 ± 45,448 copies, so, why didnt you make an expansion?, a lot of people would have bought it
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  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,347 ✭✭✭
    fede1989 wrote:
    Acording to Seteamspy this game sold 2,983,077 ± 45,448 copies, so, why didnt you make an expansion?, a lot of people would have bought it

    They wanted to do something different. Max and Erich had been working on Arpg's since the first Diablo. That's over 20 years working on the same kind of games. Travis had been working on Arpg's for almost a decade. They weren't the only ones who had been making those kinds of games for awhile but I think you get my drift. It was time to do something new.

    I personally think they've given us two great games and have more than earned their new game being given a chance. Besides-I'd rather them work on new stuff then have them do another Torchlight and not have their hearts in it.
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  • D2HansD2Hans Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭
    I think the Devs need to recharge their batteries after working on ARPG's for a long time it gets hard to get in the proper frame of mind to come up with something new or something that feels fresh. I believe Hob is doing that for the Dev's since they are open to things that they might not have been able to do in an ARPG. I believe Max and co will likely come back to ARPG's and likely Torchlight when they feel refreshed.

    Also no one knows how the game has done except for Runic and to an extent Steam. Steam does not release the information to anyone. We do know that they did sell over 2 million since Max or Brian stated it at some point but that was quite some time ago. The game was a big hit for them but at the same time you do want to have another IP to work with.
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  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,347 ✭✭✭
    D2Hans wrote:
    Steam does not release the information to anyone.
    Eh SteamSpy is GameIndustryBiz's deal and they're a pretty legit source of info. If their numbers say it's close to three million (give or take a few tens of thousands) the odds are good it's a reasonably accurate estimate. SteamSpy says Rebel Galaxy sold around 70k units which sounds about right.
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  • D2HansD2Hans Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭
    Still I would not take that information as legit. It might be close it might not be.
    "Six... one, six... the nuuuumber ooof the beeeaaast!"
  • OmnifasOmnifas Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭
    Torchlight 2 reached 2 million sold in July of 2013, I think 900,000 in 2 years is reasonable considering TL2 has been dropped to $5 a few times during that period.

    Some of the team have been making ARPGs for 20+ years, and most of them have been working on Torchlight for 8 years.

    If you and your team feel burnt out with a certain game, you should move on to different genres regardless of how well received that game was.
  • BrianWBrianW Posts: 2,310 admin
    Generally speaking... mods. It's tough to justify developing a paid expansion when people have pretty much all the tools available to import any additional content right back into the base game. Beyond that, it's just not something we've pursued.
    BrianW
    Community Manager // Mr. Nice Guy

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  • NeophytoiNeophytoi Posts: 3,539
    BrianW wrote:
    Generally speaking... mods. It's tough to justify developing a paid expansion when people have pretty much all the tools available to import any additional content right back into the base game. Beyond that, it's just not something we've pursued.

    Just going to toss in a comment or two for if only discussion purposes: It seems to me there's not much more to the ARPG genre than what's already been done. I mean, between the straight-forward romps of 'Torchlight' I & II and the wonderfully baroque 'Grim Dawn' just about everything imaginable - in terms of gameplay and structural feature, at least - has been explored, whether for better or for worse. Anything remaining undone (e.g., a graphics refinement or "to hit" mechanics that make some sort of sense) is simply a variation on an earlier theme.

    As Brian pointed out above, players willing and able to generate these things (in the form of mods or perhaps more ambitious complete conversions) have been offered the developer's own tools to do so, and many remarkable player projects resulted. Add to this Fedeen's development of 'Torchlight Mobile' and this leaves me wondering if there's any point in HQ developing 'Torchlight III' when there are so many other types of games to be explored, improved on and perhaps even innovated on.

    It's likely for this reason Erich and Travis wandered off to develop the shoot 'em up 'Rebel Galaxy' (a pretty nifty game that's basically a second generation 'Solar Winds') while the rest of HQ - or at least most of them - opted to take up the production of 'Hob', a platformer with a dash of sandbox.

    The feature all these Indy-style games share: they're low cost (~$20US retail), quickly cranked out (averaging 2-3 years, which is pretty impressive considering they're produced by a limited number of developers), low frill (meaning long-term re-play value is also on the lean side) and simple, straight-forward fun: If a player can point and click, half the game is already won; twenty-odd hours later the whole game is usually complete, with loot runs usually becoming and being the goal in and of themselves.

    This sort of formula has already resulted in a string of financial and critical successes, but in some ways it's also detracted from the depths of interaction that videogames are in a unique position to provide: No one can live 'Monopoly' or 'Risk', but more than a few folks seemingly live 'World of Borecraft' and 'Skyrim'. But that's the sort of compromise that's involved, and players for the most part seem quite happy with strictly linear plots that can be raced through.

    Now to announce my breezy opinion (once again): I'm still hoping HQ eventually goes a-hunting the big bear, and sets aside the quick-and-fun formula in favor of something a bit more involved, a bit more cerebral. While 'Hob' will likely be a blast, I'm already feeling it's going to be a one-time run due to the inherent nature of the game: once a puzzle is solved, it cannot be solved again. But a variation of 'Hob'... one that's less a platform adventure and more of a resource management and exploration-type of game... that's a different beast altogether ;)
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  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,347 ✭✭✭
    Science fiction. Nobody's been able to do a decent sci-fi themed arpg. SpaceHack was junk and Space Siege just wasn't very good. DarkSpore was a joke. There are a few others but none of them are all that good. I'd just like to see one decent Torchlight/Diablo-esque sci-fi-themed arpg.

    That said I agree with Neo. I hope Runic's able to end up making games of the Myst variety-fun, challenging games with a ton of depth. Maybe something with a story maybe not-whatever they end up doing I hope it's something they're able to stretch their wings with.
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  • Ragnar119Ragnar119 Posts: 1,102
    BrianW wrote:
    Generally speaking... mods. It's tough to justify developing a paid expansion when people have pretty much all the tools available to import any additional content right back into the base game. Beyond that, it's just not something we've pursued.


    Sorry but I fully disagree with that if there is modding support, there is no need for expansions . First there are a lot of games that have mod support and release full time paid expansions. Look at Titan Quest and now Grim Dawn that will follow similar path

    The problem is that in 90% of time, mods just cant compare (in term of quality) to a team of 20 or more people working on something as a full time job. There are some great mods out there, and for mods they are great, but they are very limited when it comes to quality. Modeling, texturing, animating totally new units, monsters, classes (without reusing and retexturing existing models, animations), implementing new mechanics and similar is very hard, and lack in 99% of mods out there.
  • gytfunkegytfunke Posts: 571
    Well, what he said, Ragnar, was that it's possible to take the expansion and make it into a mod, available free to anyone, with the current modding tools available. This means Runic might not even break even on the monetary investment of making an expansion. So Runic must pursue other, financially viable ventures instead. It's not that they expect mods to replace an official expansion.
  • fede1989fede1989 Posts: 263
    BrianW wrote:
    Generally speaking... mods. It's tough to justify developing a paid expansion when people have pretty much all the tools available to import any additional content right back into the base game. Beyond that, it's just not something we've pursued.

    I see your logic, but no matter how well done a mod is it will never be as good as an expansion. Im not talking only about the technical aspects, but you created a beautifull world in TL 1 and expanded it marvelously in TL 2, some people such as myself would love to see more of that
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  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,347 ✭✭✭
    'We just don't want to right now' is a perfectly valid reason. I can't help but feel saying 'Oh, modders will just mod the expansion into the main game and give it to everyone free' is a bit of unfair. I'd like to think most modders were considered decent folks. Besides-you can do the same with Bethesda's games yet that doesn't keep them from releasing sequels and DLC.

    If anything the popularity of the Steam Workshop and places like the Nexus modding community have helped games become more successful despite the fact people can and do make mods that do that.
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