Awful - No Risk

13

Comments

  • Ragnar119Ragnar119 Posts: 1,102
    SFJake wrote:
    Everybody is focusing on the wrong thing.

    The boss should be properly reset on Death. Thats the real issue to me. I remember playing Terraria and being excitted about a new boss. Get destroyed, he's too strong for me. But we just keep respawning through the fights. We were 3. We died 50+ times. We won, and we finished the game.


    ...............killed every ounce of challenge.

    A boss that can be abused through multiple deaths kills the fun completely. This was also true in D2 with portal scumming.

    Well I agre that he should reset, but not to full healt, maybe only 20% if everyone in room dies
  • edit: Nvm moot point, all discussed before.

    Just going to say, I am not 'elitist' and I do try not to die, because it adds more fun, but I would prefer the boss fights to reset, or small amount of reset to stop the ease of TP + Zerg.
  • elite **** or gtfo
  • adamperin wrote:
    Hi gummy,
    Although early on the death penalties are quite light I think you will find that later in the game the gold costs become much more substantial, especially in the harder difficulties. Resurrecting in town is always free, but we felt the run back alone was often enough punishment, especially in boss rooms, where you often have to run through multiple floors, which can take a fair amount of time.

    There also seem to be some dungeons which do reset, or have added penalties, like the light dungeon in act 2 which can take one or two goes depending on character, or some of the phase beast portals.


    But, the bottom line is that dying on a boss usually falls into one of 2 cases.

    1.) You misjudged, used the wrong strategy, got cornered, or didn't use a potion, but could have otherwise beaten the darn thing the first time around if you knew what you were doing. In which case the death penalty is a fair mulligan.

    2). The boss greatly outmatches your character's current potential or uses skills that you can't defend well against yet, and while you CAN just go whittling him down bit by bit just to get through, you'll eventually run out of gold and have to start running back from town, or just end up spending about what it would have cost to just buy proper gear.

    Sure, resetting the boss room or the dungeon might be one way to add penalty, but in the first case it isn't making things harder, just more tedious. In the second case though, it would actually give the player an advantage since they would then be getting extra loot or experience from doing those parts that they were clearly able to deal with.


    That said, something like a slow health regeneration on bosses when not fighting wouldn't honestly be a bad idea just so that it doesn't feel like you're simply handing the player a game that they can't actually fail at unless they give up or lose interest. Although understandable that a game maker would want players to be able to see the whole game, handing it to them just for being a warm body can lead to diminishing enjoyment.
  • No...leave things be. I'm playing on Veteran Difficulty and already dying to normal creeps. I'm paying 10% of my gold in order to resurrect at the entrance and I'M BROKE due to the enhancing and gambling...its a bad habit I know...but I missed Gheed.
  • adoomgod wrote:
    gummy52 wrote:
    ace1580 wrote:
    Try ****. That should give you sufficient motivation to avoid death.
    Nice strawman.

    He's right. You don't like it? Mod it or play ****.

    Reviving in town is time consuming. Reviving in the dungeon destroys your gold.

    Exactly. You may notice no difference when your amount of gold is 800 or so but when it grows up to 200k or more is a 10% fee and it's not nice if you keep resurrecting in dungeon.
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  • SeerSeer Posts: 2,445
    edited September 2012
    Runic has balanced the death system penalties through taking chunks off your gold. And gold is important because you need it for consumables and more importantly enchants.

    Long story short, it's a tricky and weird system that replaces boss fight reset. It's fine if it works properly, just more complicated to see and understand. Not that I'd mind a simple reset, but it's just the way the game's made. Even the boss HP seems to be based partially around that.

    Personally, I would have introduced a hybrid system between the two, with a soft regen of a fraction of the Boss' HP.


    Still, I really don't mind the current situation, as long as it proves to work properly as the game continues.





    sadron wrote:
    Penalty's fine. Only ones complaining are the elitists.

    Is that so? So basically wanting the same thing that 95% of RPGs have makes you an elitist? You're an elitist because you don't want to be able to die your way through the game?


    Look, I've seen this **** again on this very same topic and I held off. Whoever brings it up gets called an elitist for supporting something very common and hardly unreasonable.

    This forum has, over time, accumulated a number of one-size-fits-all responses that are used in a derogatory manner against the OP's points, including "you're an elitist". I'd argue that 'actual elitists' make much less noise in this forum.


    Also, I'll quote Zidders once again:
    Zidders wrote:
    I'd like to ask folks to please not troll people who criticize Runic and instead respond respectfully by presenting the best intelligent, rational counterpoint you can and don't be afraid of admitting it when someone makes a good point, no matter how critical.Even negative feedback can be constructive...as long as it's constructive. The op has a good point. From a certain perspective, the death penalty doesn't look very harsh, despite the fact that you lose a lot of gold when you die in higher difficulties.
  • ShadesShades Posts: 548
    gummy52 wrote:
    ace1580 wrote:
    Try ****. That should give you sufficient motivation to avoid death.
    Nice strawman.
    That's not a strawman. He's telling you how to correct the "no risk" problem you're complaining about.
    If you were looking for the next Diablo, you've found the wrong game. This is not the game you're looking for. Move along. No, they're not going to fix that. It was a design decision. That's right, they did it on purpose. This is Torchlight.
  • SeerSeer Posts: 2,445
    No...leave things be. I'm playing on Veteran Difficulty and already dying to normal creeps. I'm paying 10% of my gold in order to resurrect at the entrance and I'M BROKE due to the enhancing and gambling...its a bad habit I know...but I missed Gheed.

    Exactly, your experience is proof of Runic's way of doing things working correctly. You die=you're broke=no enchants/whatever
  • gummy52 wrote:
    ace1580 wrote:
    Try ****. That should give you sufficient motivation to avoid death.
    Nice strawman.

    You don't quite understand what a strawman is.

    Why don't you throw out some other words you don't know how to use.
  • adamperin wrote:
    Hi gummy,
    Although early on the death penalties are quite light I think you will find that later in the game the gold costs become much more substantial, especially in the harder difficulties. Resurrecting in town is always free, but we felt the run back alone was often enough punishment, especially in boss rooms, where you often have to run through multiple floors, which can take a fair amount of time.

    I just lost 10k gold to a boss fight and yeah, from town to that particular cave, is darn long way! That is why i felt the punishment is justify....
  • I'd like to see maybe a piece of equipment lost or something as a risk.
  • adamperin wrote:
    Hi gummy,
    Although early on the death penalties are quite light I think you will find that later in the game the gold costs become much more substantial, especially in the harder difficulties. Resurrecting in town is always free, but we felt the run back alone was often enough punishment, especially in boss rooms, where you often have to run through multiple floors, which can take a fair amount of time.
    The death penalty is based on your current gold.
    Most rich players know to open a 200g(less with bargain items/skills) portal before the tough areas and abuse the free town respawn mechanic since portals 'never' close.
    The fix? Make portals disappear when you respawn in town and/or give some sort of town respawn penalty? (Exp/Fame)
    Also I wouldn't reccomend respawning the area maybe the boss encounter though.
  • SeerSeer Posts: 2,445
    edited September 2012
    Yeah, the whole town portal thing is kind of cheesy, I still don't bother with it though.



    EDIT: Also, the fact that the game has modding tools does not justify any flimsy mechanics (generally speaking). It's like a manufacturer making a car and thinking, oh well we can have a crappy gearbox in our car, but it doesn't matter, people can hire a freelancer and mod his own aftermarket upgrade.
  • Do you realize how masochistic you sound?
    "I died and didn't get my **** handed to me. I want PUNISHMENT and LOTS OF IT!!!!! :!:

    I want a game which is fun to play and this game is lots of fun to play. If you want punishment go to a Domina......
  • gummy52 wrote:
    adoomgod wrote:
    He's right. You don't like it? Mod it or play ****.
    No, he's not. "If you don't like it, don't play it" doesn't address how to fix it, it avoids fixing it all together. Diablo 1 was the superior game and dropping your items upon death was the ideal system.

    Tedium is not an ideal system. He gave a legitimate suggestion, the game has built into it an option for extreme difficulty and death penalty - just because you don't want to use it does not mean it's not valid.
  • WiedeWiede Posts: 33
    play elite, watch your money dropping.

    Friend of mine isn't able to purchase pots anymore since we play elite :)
  • Seanzky wrote:
    While I agree bosses should reset, the gold fine is perfect the way it is. Personally, I'm not happy seeing that I already have 6 deaths and I'm only lvl 20. Then again, I'm a purist. I want to baby, cherish and build my "perfect" character with no mods or hacks. And believe me, the fact it shows how many deaths I've had is punishment enough.

    I was getting sleepy while playing my embermage and died several times because I couldn't focus. I deleted that char and started over. And all night (or morning --it was 2AM), I kept thinking what if Runic has some log somewhere that says my account has had two emebermage, with the same name and one was deleted because it had too many deaths... Lol.True story. Anyway, my "new" embermage is now lvl 20 with 6 deaths already. UGH.
    I'm glad I'm not the only one with this mentality! I restarted my Outlander after I kept getting one-shotted by that boss at the ice cavern place. I even go as far as resetting my death count to zero with character editing tools in other games. At least then nobody will ever know. ninja.gif
    Diablo 3 rendered my name totally unoriginal...
  • I've got from 10k to broke by sucking at a boss later on. Yes, that 10% is just a snap on the wrists when you're not trying to buy a few 9k spells and the shops don't have anything worthwhile, but when you get the shop that offers goodies such as spells and socketables, those deaths hurt, bad.
  • KodaKoda Posts: 83
    Zidders wrote:
    I'd like to ask folks to please not troll people who criticize Runic and instead respond respectfully by presenting the best intelligent, rational counterpoint you can and don't be afraid of admitting it when someone makes a good point, no matter how critical.Even negative feedback can be constructive...as long as it's constructive. The op has a good point. From a certain perspective, the death penalty doesn't look very harsh, despite the fact that you lose a lot of gold when you die in higher difficulties.


    thanks mr wolfie. I think there are too many ****-kissers who do not understand that constructive criticism is constructive. Granted there are a few trolls and issues could be brought up in better wording, but this 'the game is perfect' as it is attitude will only serve to prevent the game from becoming what it is capable of.
  • I agree with the OP to an extent. Right now it feels like some bosses are balanced with respawns in mind. By that, I meant that some seem to almost require you to die once (don't hate me **** guys, I'm just saying for normal players, not players with pure vit who spend 1 hour per boss fight :P), because they have so much health and/or do so much damage at once. I'd like to see bosses which regain their health when you die, but which have reduced health in the first place. As it is, there's really no balance - you just pop a town portal next to the boss chamber entrance (or the platform before the boss) and get free 'start of level' respawns. Then you keep throwing yourself against the wall until it crumbles. It doesn't really feel like an achievement though.
  • Just popped in my mind: there's also a very popular ARPG which implemented bosses and champions life regeneration on characters' death (yep, you know what game is). It was dropped down in a couple of patches due the fact that... it ****, plain and simple. So my question is: why bring others developers mistakes here? :)
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  • Zidders wrote:
    The risk is that when you die. you lose a fair chunk of change, which means when you find that enchanter wandering around the wilderness or need to yank that gem out of that item you're about to replace with a socketed upgrade, you might not be able to do it right away. If you restart in town, it means you have to hike back to where you were, which can be time consuming. If you're in a group that sort of thing can be punishing enough as it is, since your friends have to hold up and wait for you to hike back to them (if they're in a boss room you can't tp to them).

    There's all kinds of 'punishment' going on, it's just that this game really isn't meant to be as punishing as, say, Diablo or Diablo II was. Diablo and Diablo II were like schoolyard bullies when it came to death. This game is more like your best friend who busts your **** about how you screwed up but not in a really mean way but because they want you to laugh at yourself and understand that it's ok to goof up, just as long as you learn from it.

    They can just take the exit to the previous room, then you can teleport to them.
  • I'm lvl 60 now and ressing costs 60k, money I'd rather spend on enchantments.
  • plndaplnda Posts: 54
    pnilz wrote:
    I'm lvl 60 now and ressing costs 60k, money I'd rather spend on enchantments.

    You have 600.000 gold ?
  • plnda wrote:
    You have 600.000 gold ?

    No, I might have collected more than that over time though, but I've spent most of my gold.
  • CheesyPeas wrote:
    Alternatively, buy a few bottles of schnapps / tequila / vodka. Every time to you die, take a shot. Repeat until your character is aimlessly running around in circles and you are slumped over the keyboard burbling quietly.

    I love this! :lol:

    I personally don't want this to reset so that bosses go back to full health on death. I'd never have beaten Ordrak on TL with that in play. :cry: (Not until I played with my fluk 10k extra health ring anyway! lol!)

    I'm sure the Modders could do something once the mod pack is out for those of you who want to be punished into oblivion and have to spend hours at a time on boss fights though.
  • He's only level 12, make a first playthrough before jumping to conclusion.
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  • Just wait till you get at higher levels. The fee you have to pay is pretty heavy (10-35k). It's alot more than you get from 1 run and I rather use that money on gamble! I actually feel that it should be lowered. Because at that level the price is so high that it's plain stupid to use it. So 99.9% you run instead and waste time.
    I do agree that a boss reset might be nice. I had one incident where the boss was standing on the teleportal exit and I would nearly die instantly when he hits me.
  • BlueGodBlueGod Posts: 211
    I think the higher level you get i think your opinion my change about no risk!
    Rushsig_zps13d2dea1.jpg

    "If you didn't know,ya best be asking somebody"
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