VAC

escapedturkeyescapedturkey Posts: 154
edited September 2012 in TL2 General Discussions
Valve Anti-Cheat
see multiplayer auth headers: steam_gameserver.h, ISteamGameServer.h, ISteamUser.h

Integration work with the VAC Steamworks C++ API is simple, because the heavy-lifting is left to Steam. An advantage is that cheat detection is not handled directly by your game client. The only thing your game needs to do is use the API to find out whether or not a given user is VAC banned.

VAC is a component of Steamworks and the Steam client, and works by scanning the users system for cheats while your game is running. It works a lot like a virus scanner, and has a database of known cheats to detect.

https://partner.steamgames.com/documentation/api

If Runic is reading this. VAC support could be included when running private (dedicated) servers. 8-)

Comments

  • gold163gold163 Posts: 4,852
    then Runic would HAVE to have a deal with Valve and anybody who bought a Runic copy to use on private servers would be involuntarily contributing to Valve whether they like it or not.

    besides, how would it even work? You would have everybody running their own private server contract out to Valve just to use their anti-cheat, which ONLY bans by Steam account?

    I think people misunderstand how VAC works. It is exactly the same as any other anti-cheat, except that it belongs to Valve, who is responsible for making it work. It would only make things cheaper by making you entirely dependent on Valve and your infrastructure entirely dependent on Steam accounts. So basically, you'd be **** over the large number of customers who didn't buy TL2 on Steam and didn't link a Steam account.

    Please, think these things through.
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  • 1st: VAC system use delayed bans. Delayed bans DOESN'T WORKS with progression games, like RPGs;
    2nd: If there's a private server system, 100% online and by that I mean online chars are created in the server and CAN'T play offline, then you will not have to worry with cheaters, unless they are exploiting some bug.

    TL-DR : No way!
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  • My bad. I forgot about the non-Steam version you can buy. Back to the drawing board on anti-cheat ideas. :idea:
  • My bad. I forgot about the non-Steam version you can buy. Back to the drawing board on anti-cheat ideas. :idea:

    Runic doesn't care about anti-cheat stuff. The game is openly designed for modding and cheating.
  • I doubt they designed the game to promote multi-player cheating.
  • kanizkaniz Posts: 239
    I doubt they designed the game to promote multi-player cheating.

    But they did build it from the ground up with modding in mind, and once TorchEd gets released - it will be pretty difficult to differentiate between what was 'cheated' and what was done via mod.

    Did the player that showed up in your game with a full set of legendary gear get it from 'cheating' it and spawning the items with the console - then shuffling them to another character via shared stash to avoid the cheat flag, or did they have a mod installed the day before that made every drop a legendary drop?

    Is the player running around that never takes damage - is it a trainer that's running, or a mod that just cranks up his HP regen?

    Is the guy who has a few too many skill points for his level - did he get them from cheating, or did he decide to run with a mod of 'gain 1 extra point every 10 levels'?

    When you have the aim to create a fully mod-able game, and actively encourage your player base to change things, tweak it, and do whatever you want with it - the line between cheat and mod gets very blurry, especially if things installed as a 'mod' can accomplish what you would otherwise need to use a 3rd party cheat tool (ie: cheat engine) or the console to accomplish.
  • kaniz wrote:
    I doubt they designed the game to promote multi-player cheating.

    But they did build it from the ground up with modding in mind, and once TorchEd gets released - it will be pretty difficult to differentiate between what was 'cheated' and what was done via mod.

    Did the player that showed up in your game with a full set of legendary gear get it from 'cheating' it and spawning the items with the console - then shuffling them to another character via shared stash to avoid the cheat flag, or did they have a mod installed the day before that made every drop a legendary drop?

    Is the player running around that never takes damage - is it a trainer that's running, or a mod that just cranks up his HP regen?

    Is the guy who has a few too many skill points for his level - did he get them from cheating, or did he decide to run with a mod of 'gain 1 extra point every 10 levels'?

    When you have the aim to create a fully mod-able game, and actively encourage your player base to change things, tweak it, and do whatever you want with it - the line between cheat and mod gets very blurry, especially if things installed as a 'mod' can accomplish what you would otherwise need to use a 3rd party cheat tool (ie: cheat engine) or the console to accomplish.

    Players can only play together if they have the same mods installed.
  • kanizkaniz Posts: 239
    Can still install a mod, get benefits of mod (ie: 200% increase in drop rate), play, get all the loots - the uninstall the mod. As long as those loots are not unique specific to another mod - you can keep them once the mod is uninstalled.
  • escapedturkeyescapedturkey Posts: 154
    edited September 2012
    If private (dedicated) servers are allowed, I imagine there will be options for server side only characters (your character stays on that server), roaming characters (you can import/export your character), non-modded characters (a way to indicate if the character was changed under a mod), combinations, etc. The server could indicate it with various flags. A simple methodology of SHA or something similar via master servers could easily track modified vs. pure characters. If a master server is too much a P2P distribution database system of character identifications, flags, lists, SHAs, and guids could work as well.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Hash_Algorithm
  • kanizkaniz Posts: 239
    There is never going to be runic-run dedicated servers.

    There *might* be the possibility of allowing players to run their own servers - but these would be servers serving subsets of the community, not one server for the entire community. For that, it would be up to the admins of that server to what mods (if any) are allowed, and again becomes something that VAC probably wouldn't be able to deal with. What could be considered cheating on 'Bobs Server For Friends' might be allowed in the 'Hax0rs Den of Uber L3wts' server.

    Then it's upto the admins of those servers to how to detect and deal with hackers.

    If Runic ever does this - I think it would be really neat if they released the server-side code as Open Source and keeping with the whole 'mod it how you want' nature of the game.
  • ZiddersZidders Posts: 14,360 ✭✭✭
    VAC is whack
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  • gold163gold163 Posts: 4,852
    Zidders wrote:
    VAC is whack

    You must be on crack, mac. VAC is off the rack.
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  • VAC won't work with TL2 for numerous reasons...
    Here are a few:

    1. You don't have to play with Steam. You can buy the game box version, and from PWE. VAC would be pointless if some people don't have to use it.
    2. The game is moddable... so much so that they are releasing us the tools they used to essentially make the game. These tools are so powerful that many things would be considered cheating. Not to mention the console is available for use, and Runic have already stated their stance on the console... they don't mind people using it.
    3. (And probably most important) VAC does not work on Peer to Peer. Server side it will only work with a central closed server... Which Runic have stated so many times that they will not be doing.
  • plndaplnda Posts: 54
    Aslong as the save files are stored locally there is no way of stopping hacking (read no console stuff)
  • I know people are trying to be helpful for suggesting these anti-cheating systems, but I'm starting to think that even the cheater flag just opened an expectational can of worms. It implied something that really TL2 can't (and shouldn't) deliver, which is to help you choose who to play with.

    Just play with who you trust, and let Runic make great games instead of asking them to police the player-base.
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