Epic Maps 24/84 Maps *Update*

[nanenj]

A few changes to the style and scale!

Heroic and Mythic tiers for 3 level groupings. The main idea of the level groupings is to allow people to play the maps at lower levels with scaled down enemies without dishing out the gold for the higher tiers, it -attempts- to keep some balance, prolly fails xD.


Cave and Mines are completed. Additional tile-sets are probably easy to infer, but, it's just time consuming to churn out the files.

Now two tilesets released: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2755084/NEEpicMapPack.7z

[MythTL]

Ill be on the lookout for it.

As far as map variation goes, it seems to me you have it covered. I am assuming the mob spawns (types not numbers) will be based on the tileset?

[Webbstre]

Looking forward to it!

[Bissrok]

Very cool. The epic maps are kind of my favorite now, so I'll be looking forward to it.

[nanenj]

Ill be on the lookout for it.

As far as map variation goes, it seems to me you have it covered. I am assuming the mob spawns (types not numbers) will be based on the tileset?

Yep, right now the variations are based on depth and monster density. I -believe- mob spawns are already highly randomized due to the 'randomize monster spawn' but, not entirely sure how that works. If I were to explicitly create the mob spawns for each tileset that would lead to more than 700 different maps! XD

I'm hoping to get it to where after feedback there's a nice balance between epic system crawliness and playability. People will be able to pick the tileset/depth/spawn/level they want, and it remain playable on their system. The easiest ones should be playable by pretty much everyone but provides a slight spawn increase over normal maps, and the most difficult being significantly increased, but not quite as ridonkulous as the original epic maps. Although since some preferred those, the numbers are still very open for change

Also: The Heroic Tier (easiest setting) Caves maps should be complete and give an idea of what the maps will be.

Heroic -> Legendary -> Mythic. Each set with 2, 4, or 6 dungeon floors. The deeper dungeons getting more difficult as you go through, it should be at least mildly challenging. At least, it is to me, but, I'm far from uber and it's remained playable so far on my laptop without going into uber crawl lag mode.

Do note this is a partial release and will be included in the final EpicMapPack, so, when the full one gets released, you'll need to delete any partials.

EpicMapPack-Heroic-Caves: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/2755084/NEEpicMap-Caves.zip

[Enkos]

Can you include an optional mod that scales down exp and another that scales down item/gold drops to fit how many monsters end up on these maps? I would also be totally cool with bringing monsters from different areas (level scaled down) and making them uniques if you can do that.

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding and this mod doesn't actually change the main dungeon.

[nanenj]

It doesn't affect the main dungeon, in effect, it's kind of a pay-for-map infinite dungeon. It's a different way of playing with increased spawn sizes and difficulties inside portal maps.

I -think- adjusting the drop rates/xp might be possible for just these maps, but, not entirely sure. I'll look into that.

But, also as a side update, I've finished the cave tileset's maps. So, once finished, this set of maps will be replicated for every tileset.

I simply updated the file up top, so simply redownloading will get you the full cave tileset, not just the heroic tier.

[MythTL]

I am going to give the updated set a whirl and see how it goes.

As far as mob density, I was having a blast with the original mod. The challenge was noticable and the massive amounts of mobs provided alot of enjoyment. I didnt see anything wrong with the experience gains or loot drops. They are very similar to the rates I get in the Shadow Vault. I was personally impressed with your chosen spawn rates because it seemed so balanced. The Epic Maps allow me to fight masses of mobs very close to my level and the Shadow Vault has me fighting mobs 6-7 levels above me; both providing similar gains for the time invested yet a different style of gameplay.

I will report back once I have tested the new version a bit.

[nanenj]

I am going to give the updated set a whirl and see how it goes.

As far as mob density, I was having a blast with the original mod. The challenge was noticable and the massive amounts of mobs provided alot of enjoyment. I didnt see anything wrong with the experience gains or loot drops. They are very similar to the rates I get in the Shadow Vault. I was personally impressed with your chosen spawn rates because it seemed so balanced. The Epic Maps allow me to fight masses of mobs very close to my level and the Shadow Vault has me fighting mobs 6-7 levels above me; both providing similar gains for the time invested yet a different style of gameplay.

I will report back once I have tested the new version a bit.

These might need to be tuned up a bit then, note that the timeless mythic map is the highest difficulty. I turned the spawn rates down quite a bit due to how much system lag the previous ones caused. As stated though, please leave feedback, if these aren't challenging enough, I'll be happy to adjust it.

Let me know!

[MythTL]

Okay, I tested several of the different options in the new version. I did not test Heroic based on your description of the changes. These were mainly speedruns to get a quick impression of the various options, changes, and to look for obvious bugs.

The good news is that every map I tested loaded correctly for every floor. The two, four, and six level maps work perfectly as far as being playable goes. I was also very happy to see more mob variety with the tileset update! I ran into a wide variety of mob spawns ranging from Varkolyns, Goblins, and Dwarves up to Zealots and Dragons. I am beginning to think that player level as well as tileset play a role in which types of mobs spawn but I am not positive.

The Cave tileset provides a unique dynamic when combined with larger spawn rates. The bridges and gates can really get the heart pumping now.

Now for the opinionated feedback. Keep in mind I am playing through with a quite optimized level 70ish Destroyer build using Spectral Echo, heavy Passives, Haste, and moderately enchanted Epic Uniques and Sets. My experience probably wont be the norm for other players.

1) I dont think the multiple types of maps are necessary. Based on the difference between Legendary and Mythic I think two spawn rate settings would be enough. Using Heroic and Mythic would provide enough of a variation in difficulty level to be noticeable and adequate for most players. The difference between Legendary and Mythic was just not very noticeable to me.

2) I much prefer the two floor setup for vendor spawned, level scaled maps. The four level is tolerable but does seem to drag on towards the end. The six floor is just too long of a trek, in my opinion.

3) Tying into the difficulty, I didnt notice a significant increase the deeper I went other than on the final floor. Maybe you could scale the mob level higher the deeper you go? Something like: First level mobs are -1 to +1 player level. Second floor is +1 to +2. Third Floor is +3. Fourth floor is +4. I think adjusting mob level would be a better option, and much more noticeable, than slightly upping spawn rate each level.

4) Lastly, I did notice the decrease in spawn rate between the old Epic Maps and the new Mythic maps. I enjoyed the higher spawn rates and it was definitely more challenging, enjoyable, and frantic than the current version. I can only imagine how ridiculous the old spawn rates would be in this tileset with islands, bridges, and gate that must be clicked to proceed at some points.

Overall, I would have to say the added tilesets are a welcomed change and make this mod much better. Also, adding a choice of maps to cater to different playstyles, ability levels, and PC setups is a good idea but is a little overboard with "choices" at the moment. The Vendor's sell space is completely full due to all the different types of maps.

A bit more feedback and fine tuning is needed. Regardless, great work and thanks for putting this mod out. It really brings an added level to the game that reminds me of Diablo 2 "herding" and Mythos' system. Keep up the great work! I will definitely keep testing things out and giving feedback as the mod progresses.

[nanenj]

Overall, I would have to say the added tilesets are a welcomed change and make this mod much better. Also, adding a choice of maps to cater to different playstyles, ability levels, and PC setups is a good idea but is a little overboard with "choices" at the moment. The Vendor's sell space is completely full due to all the different types of maps.

Just addressing this one quickly, will touch on the others and make some adjustments to cover the rest.

The Vendor is indeed modded in the mod to generate an entirely full inventory, and there is a higher likelyhood for maps than other objects. I did this to ensure that all the map types could and would spawn since there's so many more now. Thanks for the feedback, and like I said, I'll get a little bit more time and respond to the rest of the points a little later .

[nanenj]

The Cave tileset provides a unique dynamic when combined with larger spawn rates. The bridges and gates can really get the heart pumping now.

Now for the opinionated feedback. Keep in mind I am playing through with a quite optimized level 70ish Destroyer build using Spectral Echo, heavy Passives, Haste, and moderately enchanted Epic Uniques and Sets. My experience probably wont be the norm for other players.

1) I dont think the multiple types of maps are necessary. Based on the difference between Legendary and Mythic I think two spawn rate settings would be enough. Using Heroic and Mythic would provide enough of a variation in difficulty level to be noticeable and adequate for most players. The difference between Legendary and Mythic was just not very noticeable to me.

Alright, I'll edit some things and post up a two variation bit and see what you think about that. It would save my a bit, even if there aren't as many maps. There -is- a point where they get excessive and I wanted to err on that side of things to begin with, trimming down is much easier than building up more.

2) I much prefer the two floor setup for vendor spawned, level scaled maps. The four level is tolerable but does seem to drag on towards the end. The six floor is just too long of a trek, in my opinion.

See above! I'll go ahead and drop the six floor version.

3) Tying into the difficulty, I didnt notice a significant increase the deeper I went other than on the final floor. Maybe you could scale the mob level higher the deeper you go? Something like: First level mobs are -1 to +1 player level. Second floor is +1 to +2. Third Floor is +3. Fourth floor is +4. I think adjusting mob level would be a better option, and much more noticeable, than slightly upping spawn rate each level.

I'm not entirely sure I know how to do this, but, I'll try to add some more variation into the 4 floor version to make up the difference of losing the six floor versions.

4) Lastly, I did notice the decrease in spawn rate between the old Epic Maps and the new Mythic maps. I enjoyed the higher spawn rates and it was definitely more challenging, enjoyable, and frantic than the current version. I can only imagine how ridiculous the old spawn rates would be in this tileset with islands, bridges, and gate that must be clicked to proceed at some points.

I'll up the spawns a tiny bit more. The trick for me is finding the balance where all the maps -feel- more than the original, but, there's a version playable for people with slightly lower end machines. The original epic maps lagged a bit for me. I want that feel, minus the uber-lag.

Overall, I would have to say the added tilesets are a welcomed change and make this mod much better. Also, adding a choice of maps to cater to different playstyles, ability levels, and PC setups is a good idea but is a little overboard with "choices" at the moment. The Vendor's sell space is completely full due to all the different types of maps.

A bit more feedback and fine tuning is needed. Regardless, great work and thanks for putting this mod out. It really brings an added level to the game that reminds me of Diablo 2 "herding" and Mythos' system. Keep up the great work! I will definitely keep testing things out and giving feedback as the mod progresses.

Glad to hear it, and I'll be chugging away at getting the rest out, right now using the cave tileset as a testing ground works

[MythTL]

Awesome, definitely looking forward to watching your work evolve.

Hopefully more people will test things out and help round out the feedback with other points of view. I am well aware that I am outside the "average" and respect other playstyles and skill levels. Overall, it will help make the mod better the more testing and feedback provided.

[Coney]

I'm gonna try it out with my next toon:) I plan to not use the main dungeon at all until I can just breeze through and heirloom anyway:) So this'll come in handy:)

[Drev]

Giving it a test run, Hope I can play it.

EDIT : Works great... My question is, why so many maps with tiles set pre-determined?

[nanenj]

Why so many? Well...

Two reasons, one cause they're all tileset specific, even the original ones, they just don't tell you what map they go to, they don't really randomly choose anything. Two, because I figured people would like the choice and I could

[Drev]

I guess I phrased my question wrong. The way I thought map scrolls worked were, that the 1-10 represented the Mob lvl up to lvl 10, and so on to 20, and to 30 and on the ??? it scaled to your level. I didnt think the tile sets were specific to those levels. I know Bebop tired to quick fix this for the ??? maps, but it fubared the rest of the lower level map, but from what he said it sounded like the tilesets were supposed to randomize as well.. And I posted this before re-reading that thread. So now I can understand why you are doing it 1 tile set at a time.

What I ment by 'why so many maps' was referring to the specific tile set. I understand giving them a choice in difficulty.

[nanenj]

I guess I phrased my question wrong. The way I thought map scrolls worked were, that the 1-10 represented the Mob lvl up to lvl 10, and so on to 20, and to 30 and on the ??? it scaled to your level. I didnt think the tile sets were specific to those levels. I know Bebop tired to quick fix this for the ??? maps, but it fubared the rest of the lower level map, but from what he said it sounded like the tilesets were supposed to randomize as well.. And I posted this before re-reading that thread. So now I can understand why you are doing it 1 tile set at a time.

What I ment by 'why so many maps' was referring to the specific tile set. I understand giving them a choice in difficulty.

Right, the tilesets aren't really random via map, they're set in there, but since they're all named 'Map Scroll (Level ????)' it appears if they're random cause you don't really know which one you buy. But it's actually each tileset has it's own map

So, 7 tilesets, and either 4 or 9 (depending on what i finally decide) map variations per tileset, you end up with that many.

But, the tilesets randomizing is really just an illusion caused by the maps being titled the same thing.

[HeCtroN]

are all maps randomised? what's the diferense with theese ones and the standard infinite dungeon maps?

[nanenj]

Difference between these and the infinite dungeon are a bit more subtle, as they can be bought before beating the game, as well, these let you choose which tileset, and lastly, they've got a modified spawn rate and level multiplier than the infinite dungeon They're just different, tiny bit of variety.