what do you think its the biggest different between TL & D

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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby laharl9999 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:07 am

Webbstre wrote:
s4nder wrote:Diablo 3 is getting streamlined to more ridiculous extremes with every new update. Now they removed skill runes as items and made them automatically unlock with level-ups like skills already do. Equipment is now officially the only customization left in the game and that can be bought for real money. Long term fun is consistently being sacrificed for short term "awesomeness." I'm honestly not interested in even trying it out anymore.

I'm confused... wasn't the plan before to have thousands of skill runes that could be bought with real money?


Having skill runes unlocked automatically is a GOOD IDEA.
The best loot from items will already be nearly impossible to achieve through normal gaming without RMAH (a lot of affixes combinations added with random number on each affixes ), don't you see item runes where only there to be traded and give more money to blizzard?
Ultimately everyone want the exact same level 7 rune, there was no point in those runes, except adding a layer of unecessary complexity and time-consuming farming.
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby Malorenor » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:40 am

Confusion honestly seems like the word of the day at Blizzard inc :shock:

Though must say, the forums are an absolute treat right now. :P

At the moment I feel the biggest difference is that TLII is going to be more in tune with old school RPGs, appealing to the original Big-D players, while D3 is... I dunno, what are they really doing? In adding innovative ideas to the game, it's almost as though they've ended up choking themselves. Sometimes you just need to keep it simple.

Even so, Blizzard still have an impressive record. The major difference between previous games and D3 would be the greater playerbase interaction they have during D3's production, which in turn has led to the massive griefing sessions. If they had kept things under wraps and just released it without much explanation, people might have just welcomed it with open arms.

Knowing Blizzard, they still are capable of pulling it off, but the ZOMG factor definitely has gone a tad too soggy.
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby fkl » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:50 am

s4nder wrote: Long term fun is consistently being sacrificed for short term "awesomeness."


I think I figured out the intent of blizzard now. I kept thinking "this game lacks replayability, it's gonna fail", but is replayability a wanted thing for a one time purchase game? longer a player sticks with the game it's gonna cost them more. hell, they even limited the characters you can make with an account to 10. so that's why, they keep swapping the lasting appeal with initial awesomeness to play. they don't want to make a game that sticks for a decade. they don't want to make new diablo 2, they want to make best-selling game ever. I think this is enough difference :lol:
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby Zidders » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:29 am

Blizzard has that RealID BS and Runic doesn't.
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby carrierx » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:31 am

I'll have to play though the latest patch and see if its any better.
I need to see Stanos
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby Brixtan » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:36 am

laharl9999 wrote: Ultimately everyone want the exact same level 7 rune, there was no point in those runes, except adding a layer of unecessary complexity and time-consuming farming.


Yep, couldn't agree more. I'm really digging the changes with Patch 13 yesterday. I think the rune system changes are going to be (overall) for the best, although it's hard to really know just how far reaching and meaningful these changes are going to be until the game is finally released - we're only getting a taste with the beta.
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby Nefariouz » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:45 am

I would like to add that Blizzard will NOT gain at all from the RMAH. The only listing fees/taxes applies to items is that which supports the PayPal charges (US & Most Likely Europe), and whatever service applies to the rest of the world.

The main difference between the two is who they appeal to. Without a "Runic.net" service, they will never be able to support hardcore players in the same which Diablo III will. Despite the fact I have over 250 hours on TL1 (according to steam), Diablo III will undoubtedly be the better game. It's not a matter of question, and I'm sure the guys over at Runic games would admit it. It is of no fault of the developers, but it's a matter of funding.

If you want to be a fan boy, go ahead. TL2 will be a fun way to waste the weekend away with some friends, but it will never be able to maintain the long lasting appeal of Diablo III. You can't expect a 20 dollar game from a rather unknown developer to topple one of the top 3 most wealthy Developers in the world, even without the Activision merge. The mods in TL2 will not compensate for the amount of content Blizzard will produce. Bashiok has stated that they intend to add content similarly to how they update WoW, which shows intent on constantly expanding endgame.

All that rant being said, you'll see me playing Tl2 through at least once on the hardest difficulty for each character, but you'll see me on D3 for at least eight more years.
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby Nefariouz » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:54 am

Zidders wrote:Blizzard has that RealID BS and Runic doesn't.


Would like to add that they're phasing that out, in order to support Battletag. You pick a in service name, it gives you an ID number, and you use that to communicate with anyone on any current-gen Blizzard game (WoW, SC2, D3).
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby Zidders » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:15 am

Where are you getting the impression that Runic is trying to topple anyone, or that any of us are saying we want Torchlight II to topple anyone? I don't know anyone here who is seriously expecting Torchlight II to knock Diablo III or Blizzard down. We'de be stupid to say that. Of course Diablo III is going to be a great game, many of us are looking forwards to playing it.

As far as the hardcore players..i'm sure you're absolutely right there, too, and that's totally cool. It's cool that hardcore gamers are getting a game like Diablo III. They're getting Path of Exile, too. And Grim Dawn.

Just because D3 had more money behind it doesn't necessarily mean that's why people are going to play it longer, tho. People still play good games years after they came out because they're good games. Runic AND blizzard are both making great games. This whole 'this one vs that one' thing is really kinda silly. Selling games might be a competition but liking games shouldn't be.

And awesome! (the battletag thing) however, is there a separate friends list for Real ID enabled friends and non Real id enabled friends? The RealID settings kinda confused me.
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby carrierx » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:20 am

Nefariouz wrote:I would like to add that Blizzard will NOT gain at all from the RMAH. The only listing fees/taxes applies to items is that which supports the PayPal charges (US & Most Likely Europe), and whatever service applies to the rest of the world.

The main difference between the two is who they appeal to. Without a "Runic.net" service, they will never be able to support hardcore players in the same which Diablo III will. Despite the fact I have over 250 hours on TL1 (according to steam), Diablo III will undoubtedly be the better game. It's not a matter of question, and I'm sure the guys over at Runic games would admit it. It is of no fault of the developers, but it's a matter of funding.

If you want to be a fan boy, go ahead. TL2 will be a fun way to waste the weekend away with some friends, but it will never be able to maintain the long lasting appeal of Diablo III. You can't expect a 20 dollar game from a rather unknown developer to topple one of the top 3 most wealthy Developers in the world, even without the Activision merge. The mods in TL2 will not compensate for the amount of content Blizzard will produce. Bashiok has stated that they intend to add content similarly to how they update WoW, which shows intent on constantly expanding endgame.

All that rant being said, you'll see me playing Tl2 through at least once on the hardest difficulty for each character, but you'll see me on D3 for at least eight more years.


A small sect.. The rest will play through both once, maybe twice, and then settle into another MMORPG if they want to be "hardcore"...
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby Brixtan » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:31 am

Nefariouz wrote:I would like to add that Blizzard will NOT gain at all from the RMAH. The only listing fees/taxes applies to items is that which supports the PayPal charges (US & Most Likely Europe), and whatever service applies to the rest of the world.

The main difference between the two is who they appeal to. Without a "Runic.net" service, they will never be able to support hardcore players in the same which Diablo III will. Despite the fact I have over 250 hours on TL1 (according to steam), Diablo III will undoubtedly be the better game. It's not a matter of question, and I'm sure the guys over at Runic games would admit it. It is of no fault of the developers, but it's a matter of funding.

If you want to be a fan boy, go ahead. TL2 will be a fun way to waste the weekend away with some friends, but it will never be able to maintain the long lasting appeal of Diablo III. You can't expect a 20 dollar game from a rather unknown developer to topple one of the top 3 most wealthy Developers in the world, even without the Activision merge. The mods in TL2 will not compensate for the amount of content Blizzard will produce. Bashiok has stated that they intend to add content similarly to how they update WoW, which shows intent on constantly expanding endgame.

All that rant being said, you'll see me playing Tl2 through at least once on the hardest difficulty for each character, but you'll see me on D3 for at least eight more years.


Put away the crystal ball Miss Cleo, your predictions aren't anything we haven't heard a thousand times over. Your opinions (which you amusingly tried to portray as fact) are duly noted, although not original to these forums. I'm honestly going to play the shit out of TL2 & D3. It always baffles me that people have this "all or none" mentality when discussing games - games can co-exist and thrive. :roll:

In all honesty, if I want to play a hardcore aRPG...it'll probably end up being Path of Exile. The game, it's loot system, and class system mechanics are notoriously more complicated than either TL2 or D3 combined. Throw in their cut throat league where you can get pk'd by pretty much anyone, and it makes D3 and TL2 look like Care Bears on parade.
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby jamesL » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:20 am

Nefariouz wrote:Bashiok has stated that they intend to add content similarly to how they update WoW, which shows intent on constantly expanding endgame.


if you mean they are going to add new content with expansions that you have to buy, then yes, that is what they are going to do
that is not really a surprise is it ?
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby jamesL » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:38 am

Nefariouz wrote:I would like to add that Blizzard will NOT gain at all from the RMAH. The only listing fees/taxes applies to items is that which supports the PayPal charges (US & Most Likely Europe), and whatever service applies to the rest of the world.


Nefariouz wrote:Bashiok has stated that they intend to add content similarly to how they update WoW, which shows intent on constantly expanding endgame.


if you mean they are going to add new content with expansions that you have to buy, then yes, that is what they are going to do
that is not really a surprise is it ?

and I don't understand your remark about the RMAH
first you say Blizzard will not gain at all, then you say they will gain through listing fees from PayPal in the US and europe ?
so which is it ?
will they gain or will they not ?
and I really don't understand what you're saying about the RMAH anyway
Blizzard makes 1.25 per transaction (and there are no listing fees anymore)
http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/commen ... se-changes
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby Malorenor » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:48 am

Ha! When it comes to gameplay, storyline and longevity, Chrono Trigger will beat the living daylights out of both Diablo and TL.....oh wait we talking about ARPG's :oops:

Kidding :P . Honestly, despite the fact that both games have the same ARPG tag I feel they have their own niches within the gaming world. Like Nef said TLII is meant to be a more casual experience, something to relax over, while DIII, supposing it still has everything and more than DII had to offer, is meant for the hardcore players to write a thesis on. To each their own I say.

All this talk about longevity is pretty moot when it comes down to basics. The longevity for The D series comes from the systems created by Blizz to enhance gameplay. At the same time longevity for TLII I feel will come entirely from player generated content i.e. mods. That's where I was disappointed with D. Would have loved for it to be moddable.

For a game developed by an 'unknown' developer (which Runic hardly are, please do realize they are the ones who were a size-able part of The Diablo I team, would be mighty rude to diss them as unknown), on a meager budget, TL, with absolutely NO lore and only one town, still continues to be played, and mostly cuz of the active modders who continue to pump out mods by the day. Its a trial to test what can be achieved with the bare minimum that one has. And this will continue with TLII, and even stronger, cuz they have worked with the tools and know how to do things more efficiently.

You don't need to be a multi-millionaire developer to be able to provide simple clean fun :)

Runic, with TL and TLII caters to those fellas who just wanna go out and have a jolly good time; I doubt toppling others over constitutes their idea of fun :P

As for adding content...WoW ---> WoW expansions ---->Diablo III ----> RMAH. Honestly am a little worried about how things will turn out.

And Path of Exile...for some reason everything and its brother looked like a soggy swamp monster to me :P Looks a lot of fun though. Definitely looking to give it a try.
Last edited by Malorenor on Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby Ragnar119 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:09 am

Nefariouz wrote:I would like to add that Blizzard will NOT gain at all from the RMAH. The only listing fees/taxes applies to items is that which supports the PayPal charges (US & Most Likely Europe), and whatever service applies to the rest of the world.

The main difference between the two is who they appeal to. Without a "Runic.net" service, they will never be able to support hardcore players in the same which Diablo III will. Despite the fact I have over 250 hours on TL1 (according to steam), Diablo III will undoubtedly be the better game. It's not a matter of question, and I'm sure the guys over at Runic games would admit it. It is of no fault of the developers, but it's a matter of funding.

If you want to be a fan boy, go ahead. TL2 will be a fun way to waste the weekend away with some friends, but it will never be able to maintain the long lasting appeal of Diablo III. You can't expect a 20 dollar game from a rather unknown developer to topple one of the top 3 most wealthy Developers in the world, even without the Activision merge. The mods in TL2 will not compensate for the amount of content Blizzard will produce. Bashiok has stated that they intend to add content similarly to how they update WoW, which shows intent on constantly expanding endgame.

All that rant being said, you'll see me playing Tl2 through at least once on the hardest difficulty for each character, but you'll see me on D3 for at least eight more years.


While I agree that torchlight will not be played by hardcore players, i must say that d3 will be same thing. D3 is not for hardcore players, especially after the changes like, no lader, RMHA, and others.

I played 10 years diablo2 because of different build and characters. I doubt that d3 will be played that long, especially after limiting on only 10 characters.
If blizz doesn't get money from RMHA, then there will be no servers after 8 years, or maybe they will bring a month fee, time will tell.
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby Zidders » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:22 am

jamesL wrote:
and I don't understand your remark about the RMAH
first you say Blizzard will not gain at all, then you say they will gain through listing fees from PayPal in the US and europe ?
so which is it ?
will they gain or will they not ?
and I really don't understand what you're saying about the RMAH anyway
Blizzard makes 1.25 per transaction (and there are no listing fees anymore)
http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/commen ... se-changes


They mean that whatever Blizzard makes per transaction goes right back towards paying the fee paypal charges Bliz. They don't make any money off of it. As far as longevity..the main reason people play D2 after all these years is because of the core gameplay elements that have nothing to do with wether the game is hardcore or not.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21801&p=195988#p195988

"Seems to me I remember reading something about a portion of the midbrain called the substantia nigra/ventral tegmental area (SN/VTA) that thrives on novelty and acquisition of new stuff. When stimulated, it rewards the body with all sorts of pleasant sensations."

It's funny to read stuff people have written stating that noone will play Torchlight in a few years, or Diablo...look, both games are going to be well made. As long as a game is well made and fun, people will play it. I mean, people still play monopoly. People still play checkers. People still play dice games-did you know that the oldest known set of dice is a 5000-year-old backgammon set at the Burnt City, an archeological site in south-eastern Iran? And that's not even the earliest known evidence.

So really, let's not be melodramatic here. The premise of this thread is silly lol
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby Brixtan » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:07 pm

Zidders wrote:It's funny to read stuff people have written stating that noone will play Torchlight in a few years, or Diablo...look, both games are going to be well made. As long as a game is well made and fun, people will play it. I mean, people still play monopoly. People still play checkers. People still play dice games-did you know that the oldest known set of dice is a 5000-year-old backgammon set at the Burnt City, an archeological site in south-eastern Iran? And that's not even the earliest known evidence.

So really, let's not be melodramatic here. The premise of this thread is silly lol


OMG CHECKERS IS SO NOT HARDCORE - MONOPOLY FTW! DERP DERP DERP

(kidding aside, tiresome thread is tiresome).
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby carrierx » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:50 pm

Brixtan wrote:
Zidders wrote:It's funny to read stuff people have written stating that noone will play Torchlight in a few years, or Diablo...look, both games are going to be well made. As long as a game is well made and fun, people will play it. I mean, people still play monopoly. People still play checkers. People still play dice games-did you know that the oldest known set of dice is a 5000-year-old backgammon set at the Burnt City, an archeological site in south-eastern Iran? And that's not even the earliest known evidence.

So really, let's not be melodramatic here. The premise of this thread is silly lol


OMG CHECKERS IS SO NOT HARDCORE - MONOPOLY FTW! DERP DERP DERP

(kidding aside, tiresome thread is tiresome).



im wondering who aspires to be a "HARDCORE GAMER !!! ARRRRGGHHH !!! *FLEX*"

Its a game....
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby Brixtan » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:01 pm

To quote the great wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardcore_gamer

Casual Gamers:
"A casual gamer is a player whose time or interest in playing games is limited. Casual gamers tend to play games designed for ease of gameplay and don't spend much time playing more involved games. The genres that casual gamers play vary, and they might not own a specific video game console to play their games. Casual gaming demographics vary greatly from those of traditional video games, as the typical casual gamer is older and more predominantly female. One casual gamer subset is the "fitness gamer", who plays motion-based exercise games."

Hardcore Gamers:
"Hardcore gamers prefer to take significant time and practice on games, and tend to play more involved games that require larger amounts of time to complete or master. Hardcore gamers may take part in video game culture. Competition is another defining characteristic of hardcore gamers, who often compete in organized tournaments, leagues, or ranked play integrated into the game proper. There are many subtypes of hardcore gamers based on the style of game, gameplay preference, hardware platform, and other preferences."

In the end, it's all semantics, conjecture, and opinion.
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Re: what do you think its the biggest different between TL &

Postby tomagabriel » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:04 pm

Well I believe the fundamental difference is that TL2 aims to be a fun game in the spirit of D1&2, while D3 aims at becoming an industry using the Diablo "name" .

This fundamental difference has a thousand manifestations: LAN, offline, moddability, RMAH, streamlining, pace, etc.
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