TL2 DRM

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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby agent154 » Mon May 21, 2012 4:05 pm

Nobody is arguing the psychology behind wanting DRM. I can fully understand why an artist would possibly WANT DRM. But the fact of the matter is, that no matter how strong it is, it will be broken. WoW's service is 100% online only with no concept of "single player"... yet somebody managed to reverse engineer the protocol and design their own private servers. Now people can download full copies of the game directly from Blizzard, which are meant for trial accounts, and connect to private servers without paying Blizzard a red cent. Despite this, Blizzard still (arguably) deserves money for the game. Their online service is light years beyond the quality of free-to-play servers. The free servers are glitchy at best, and quite often lack certain critical features/behavior. It's a poor replacement for the online service, and (most) paying customers realize this. That is why they keep paying despite knowing that there are free servers out there.

In my not-so-professional opinion, the only acceptable form of DRM is how it was dealt with only a few years back: CD or Product Key that you use to install the game. That product key is then tied to an online service (say, in blizzard's case: Battle.net). Aside from that, the person should have access to LAN play and/or direct connection to another person, a la TCP/IP or UDP. That way, the develloper can concentrate on creating an awesome online service to complement the legitimate purchases of the game, and exclude those people who pirate. Sure, the pirates can still play multiplayer, but it'll be bland compared to whatever bonuses the developer provides via their portal. That's how it worked for Starcraft: Brood War, Diablo 2, and Warcraft 2 and 3. That's how it worked for Half-Life when it was first released, before Steam was created. Though they weren't forcefully locked to an account, only one person with a valid key could be on at the same time.

But regardless, I think I can live with TL2's single online activation for installing the game. It's not so bad that I'll completely refuse... but it is my hope that they decide to take it out some day, because clearly it's only going to inconvenience legitimate customers. Creative people who think they need DRM should really be taught that regardless of how they try to keep people from illegally attaining a copy of their product, their efforts will only burden and punish paying customers and otherwise loyal fans.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby Zidders » Mon May 21, 2012 4:08 pm

Agent, I am with you 100%
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby Pattoe » Tue May 22, 2012 2:55 am

People need to stop discounting why people pirate. Changing a quote to "excuses" and then saying 'Oh yeah, that's just excuses you dirty stinking pirate' doesn't actually help anything. Like it or not, whether you agree with the points or disagree with them, whether you pirate or you don't, the reasons people try to justify piracy with are reasons none-the-less and there's no smoke without fire. Discounting something as excuses and then disrespecting the person isn't going to stop piracy, if a company did that, it's more likely to encourage piracy.

I know it feels good to get on your high-horse and say "I've never pirated so im better than everyone else, and everyone who pirates is just morally corrupt" but it's just not true, I've got many friends who pirate and they are the nicest people ever, They just don't think that piracy is much of a big issue, there are reasons why people pirate, it ranges from "Because I can and It's free" to "I severely disagree with the business practices in place so it's a protest". Both of those reasons and all the other reasons for piracy can be argued against, I'm completely aware of that. Every reason can be said to be wrong and can be supported by very valid points... but that doesn't stop the people who pirate still believing in those reasons.

To educate people properly and make them understand the consequences of piracy, you need to be a lot more respectful to somebody, less patronising and condescending. These people are generally very good people, and I'm sure if treated with politeness and respect, they will listen. I know I've gotten my friends to pay for games that they pirate just by explaining to them that even a single sale can help out a developer a lot.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby Zidders » Tue May 22, 2012 3:05 am

Who's being disrespectful or patronizing? i'm not. Hell, I stole Torchlight when it first came out, as well as Borderlands, and many other games. I went back and paid for them later (and in the case of Runic, I apologized) that doesn't change what I did, so i'm the last person to get on my high horse. All I expect is that people realize that it's theft, it's not a protest, so call it what it is and own up to being a theif. Once people realize that that's what they're doing, they're more likely to realize that it causes developers to fear that they won't be compensated for their work and it allows people who want to justify draconian laws that justification.

I agree that we shouldn't judge or look down on people who do it, but all too often when you try to explain to people who download game why they shouldn't, some of them go immediately on the defenseive and then next thing you know, the conversation loses focus. It almost always ends up being the few 'people who don't respect content creators' vs the few 'people who enjoy feeling morally superior to others'. They might be a small part of the problem (corporations are the largest part of the problem but they're among the loudest.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby Shiaika » Tue May 22, 2012 3:30 am

Pattoe wrote:People need to stop discounting why people pirate. Changing a quote to "excuses" and then saying 'Oh yeah, that's just excuses you dirty stinking pirate' doesn't actually help anything. Like it or not, whether you agree with the points or disagree with them, whether you pirate or you don't, the reasons people try to justify piracy with are reasons none-the-less and there's no smoke without fire. Discounting something as excuses and then disrespecting the person isn't going to stop piracy, if a company did that, it's more likely to encourage piracy.

I know it feels good to get on your high-horse and say "I've never pirated so im better than everyone else, and everyone who pirates is just morally corrupt" but it's just not true, I've got many friends who pirate and they are the nicest people ever, They just don't think that piracy is much of a big issue, there are reasons why people pirate, it ranges from "Because I can and It's free" to "I severely disagree with the business practices in place so it's a protest". Both of those reasons and all the other reasons for piracy can be argued against, I'm completely aware of that. Every reason can be said to be wrong and can be supported by very valid points... but that doesn't stop the people who pirate still believing in those reasons.

To educate people properly and make them understand the consequences of piracy, you need to be a lot more respectful to somebody, less patronising and condescending. These people are generally very good people, and I'm sure if treated with politeness and respect, they will listen. I know I've gotten my friends to pay for games that they pirate just by explaining to them that even a single sale can help out a developer a lot.

Educate people that doesn't want to be educated? In the internet? You think I'm retarded or what? Excuses are excuses. Those who want to be educated don't sit down and wait for knowledge to come to them.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby drachir » Tue May 22, 2012 5:34 am

One off on-line product activation linked to a personal account somewhere and some sort of account verification when you go on-line to play are probably enough.

Lost your Activation key? Surely you can remember your email account...or Name?

If you have to be on-line to carry out this process then i really can't see anyone having a legitimate issue in this day and age.

If it protects the developers from casual piracy then it's a good thing IMHO

Blizzard went OTT with the single-player on-line always requirement, but SP is not what they or their target customers are really interested in for Diablo 3.

You have to ask yourself how many people who did pirate a game would actualy have bought it if that was the only option.

*I want that..it's £60*....*Going to buy it?*....*No*....*Can i Pirate it?*....*No*....*End*

Either way the developer gets no money.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby Arlian » Tue May 22, 2012 6:57 am

I'd honestly rather everything be handled through email and password and have accounts linked through that than to have per-account activation.

You want to play the game? Create a free account (username/email and password) and when the account is created, register your code onto your account. This creates a one-time activation which can be reapplied simply by logging into the server to revalidate. In this case, revalidate simply means: requesting computer has credentials, passing unlock, boom, done.

The problem still exists with: "What if the servers are down" in which case, obtaining a bootleg copy is still the easy and legal alternative. You already own a copy of the game. You already paid your hard-earned green (or whatever color you use in your respective country). Obtaining a back-up clone which bypasses the activation is still a viable alternative so long as you own the rights to play the product. (have the product key, physical media, etc).
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby Pattoe » Tue May 22, 2012 7:55 am

Shiaika wrote:Educate people that doesn't want to be educated? In the internet? You think I'm retarded or what? Excuses are excuses. Those who want to be educated don't sit down and wait for knowledge to come to them.


Sure there are some people, like you, who won't listen to others. But there are many open minded people who will listen. Probably not to me unless they are my personal friends, but to known and reputable authorities of the internet, such as Youtube personalities, people do listen to them.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby JediFreeman » Tue May 22, 2012 10:31 am

I want to jump in here to clarify some things.

1 - We have, to date, NEVER turned down a single request for additional activations on Torchlight. It is actually rare for someone to consume TEN activations over a multi year period. I think we have had maybe 2-3 dozen?

2 - If you ask us for activation increases - We have access to the activation logs - if we see you requesting large volumes of activations from different regions of the world and different computers within a short time, We will be concerned and will ask you about it. We will want to know what is going on in that kind of sketchy situation (which, you must admit, would be really rare unless you managed to be plane hopping around the world and re-installing the game on a new computer at every airport and hotel along the way - at which point we will ask why, the story alone would be worth hearing :-P ).

3 - If you ask us for activation increases and we see you have activated a bunch from your same computer or IP address over a short period of time, we will know that. I want to stress this in a way only Dr. Seuss can:

We do not care if you install it on all the computers in your house. We do not care if you use your mouse. You can try to install on WINE. If it works, that's mighty fine! You can play it on your LAN, you can play it on the "can" (although that might be difficult). We will up your activations, Sam-I-Am.


4 - The retail "box" version of Torchlight 1 had zero DRM. This goes for both Encore and JoWood versions.

5 - The retail "box" plans for Torchlight II are not yet public where I can go into details on them right now, we will let you know when additional information is available.

6 - With the Torchlight II Runic digital version the DRM will be the same as we had on Torchlight 1 - that is, a key with a generous number of activations by default (we had ten activations for Torchlight 1, the number for Torchlight II is not finalized yet).

7 - The plan is to have the Torchlight II Runic version be an "unlockable" demo like Torchlight 1. This means you can download, install and play without ever purchasing a key, the game just has some restrictions. We have not stated what these are yet, but for example you cannot play Internet Multiplayer (you need a Runic Account linked to a key for that) and there will be a content lock in place to prevent you from playing the entire game (like with the Steam Torchlight 1 demo ending on floor 5). If you like it, you can click "buy now" from the launcher and get a key, put it in and never get bothered again. No re-downloading. No re-installing. Just unlock and get back to the loot.

8 - With that DRM you will only need to activate ONCE on a computer, it will never dial home again (normal caveats about re-activating after reformatting your computer apply). There are no rootkits. There are no custom driver bullshit. There is nothing that accesses or interferes with ANYTHING ELSE on your computer. PERIOD.

9 - With ALL VERSIONS of Torchlight II you will have a key that will link to your Runic Account for INTERNET multiplayer. For the Runic digital version it will be the same key that you use for your DRM. Perfect World digital version is identical to Runic's digital version. Steam players will get a key when the game is released that can be registered to their Runic Account. Once your key is linked to your account this also provides a handy way to get your key back if you lose it later.

10 - Your Runic Account is what you will log into for INTERNET multiplayer. LAN multiplayer has NO LOGINS or any other requirement. You just start a game and start playing.

11 - As we have stated before. In the extremely unlikely event that something happens and we have to stop supporting our product. We WILL release a patch that will remove ANY activation requirements at all. I know some of you will see this as an empty promise and there is not really anything I can say that will convince you otherwise. I can only say that has been our statement from the beginning and will not change.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby Dorf » Tue May 22, 2012 10:37 am

JediFreeman wrote:
Spoiler: show
I want to jump in here to clarify some things.

1 - We have, to date, NEVER turned down a single request for additional activations on Torchlight. It is actually rare for someone to consume TEN activations over a multi year period. I think we have had maybe 2-3 dozen?

2 - If you ask us for activation increases - We have access to the activation logs - if we see you requesting large volumes of activations from different regions of the world and different computers within a short time, We will be concerned and will ask you about it. We will want to know what is going on in that kind of sketchy situation (which, you must admit, would be really rare unless you managed to be plane hopping around the world and re-installing the game on a new computer at every airport and hotel along the way - at which point we will ask why, the story alone would be worth hearing :-P ).

3 - If you ask us for activation increases and we see you have activated a bunch from your same computer or IP address over a short period of time, we will know that. I want to stress this in a way only Dr. Seuss can:

We do not care if you install it on all the computers in your house. We do not care if you use your mouse. You can try to install on WINE. If it works, that's mighty fine! You can play it on your LAN, you can play it on the "can" (although that might be difficult). We will up your activations, Sam-I-Am.


4 - The retail "box" version of Torchlight 1 had zero DRM. This goes for both Encore and JoWood versions.

5 - The retail "box" plans for Torchlight II are not yet public where I can go into details on them right now, we will let you know when additional information is available.

6 - With the Torchlight II Runic digital version the DRM will be the same as we had on Torchlight 1 - that is, a key with a generous number of activations by default (we had ten activations for Torchlight 1, the number for Torchlight II is not finalized yet).

7 - The plan is to have the Torchlight II Runic version be an "unlockable" demo like Torchlight 1. This means you can download, install and play without ever purchasing a key, the game just has some restrictions. We have not stated what these are yet, but for example you cannot play Internet Multiplayer (you need a Runic Account linked to a key for that) and there will be a content lock in place to prevent you from playing the entire game (like with the Steam Torchlight 1 demo ending on floor 5). If you like it, you can click "buy now" from the launcher and get a key, put it in and never get bothered again. No re-downloading. No re-installing. Just unlock and get back to the loot.

8 - With that DRM you will only need to activate ONCE on a computer, it will never dial home again (normal caveats about re-activating after reformatting your computer apply). There are no rootkits. There are no custom driver bullshit. There is nothing that accesses or interferes with ANYTHING ELSE on your computer. PERIOD.

9 - With ALL VERSIONS of Torchlight II you will have a key that will link to your Runic Account for INTERNET multiplayer. For the Runic digital version it will be the same key that you use for your DRM. Perfect World digital version is identical to Runic's digital version. Steam players will get a key when the game is released that can be registered to their Runic Account. Once your key is linked to your account this also provides a handy way to get your key back if you lose it later.

10 - Your Runic Account is what you will log into for INTERNET multiplayer. LAN multiplayer has NO LOGINS or any other requirement. You just start a game and start playing.

11 - As we have stated before. In the extremely unlikely event that something happens and we have to stop supporting our product. We WILL release a patch that will remove ANY activation requirements at all. I know some of you will see this as an empty promise and there is not really anything I can say that will convince you otherwise. I can only say that has been our statement from the beginning and will not change.


Thanks for the info. I hope people finally realize how relaxed the DRM is. Keep up with the good work
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby Pattoe » Tue May 22, 2012 10:44 am

JediFreeman wrote:
Spoiler: show
I want to jump in here to clarify some things.

1 - We have, to date, NEVER turned down a single request for additional activations on Torchlight. It is actually rare for someone to consume TEN activations over a multi year period. I think we have had maybe 2-3 dozen?

2 - If you ask us for activation increases - We have access to the activation logs - if we see you requesting large volumes of activations from different regions of the world and different computers within a short time, We will be concerned and will ask you about it. We will want to know what is going on in that kind of sketchy situation (which, you must admit, would be really rare unless you managed to be plane hopping around the world and re-installing the game on a new computer at every airport and hotel along the way - at which point we will ask why, the story alone would be worth hearing :-P ).

3 - If you ask us for activation increases and we see you have activated a bunch from your same computer or IP address over a short period of time, we will know that. I want to stress this in a way only Dr. Seuss can:

We do not care if you install it on all the computers in your house. We do not care if you use your mouse. You can try to install on WINE. If it works, that's mighty fine! You can play it on your LAN, you can play it on the "can" (although that might be difficult). We will up your activations, Sam-I-Am.


4 - The retail "box" version of Torchlight 1 had zero DRM. This goes for both Encore and JoWood versions.

5 - The retail "box" plans for Torchlight II are not yet public where I can go into details on them right now, we will let you know when additional information is available.

6 - With the Torchlight II Runic digital version the DRM will be the same as we had on Torchlight 1 - that is, a key with a generous number of activations by default (we had ten activations for Torchlight 1, the number for Torchlight II is not finalized yet).

7 - The plan is to have the Torchlight II Runic version be an "unlockable" demo like Torchlight 1. This means you can download, install and play without ever purchasing a key, the game just has some restrictions. We have not stated what these are yet, but for example you cannot play Internet Multiplayer (you need a Runic Account linked to a key for that) and there will be a content lock in place to prevent you from playing the entire game (like with the Steam Torchlight 1 demo ending on floor 5). If you like it, you can click "buy now" from the launcher and get a key, put it in and never get bothered again. No re-downloading. No re-installing. Just unlock and get back to the loot.

8 - With that DRM you will only need to activate ONCE on a computer, it will never dial home again (normal caveats about re-activating after reformatting your computer apply). There are no rootkits. There are no custom driver bullshit. There is nothing that accesses or interferes with ANYTHING ELSE on your computer. PERIOD.

9 - With ALL VERSIONS of Torchlight II you will have a key that will link to your Runic Account for INTERNET multiplayer. For the Runic digital version it will be the same key that you use for your DRM. Perfect World digital version is identical to Runic's digital version. Steam players will get a key when the game is released that can be registered to their Runic Account. Once your key is linked to your account this also provides a handy way to get your key back if you lose it later.

10 - Your Runic Account is what you will log into for INTERNET multiplayer. LAN multiplayer has NO LOGINS or any other requirement. You just start a game and start playing.

11 - As we have stated before. In the extremely unlikely event that something happens and we have to stop supporting our product. We WILL release a patch that will remove ANY activation requirements at all. I know some of you will see this as an empty promise and there is not really anything I can say that will convince you otherwise. I can only say that has been our statement from the beginning and will not change.


This kind of service and honesty is why people who usually pirate games will consider buying Torchlight 2. This is what Runic Games is doing properly, communicating with and respecting their customers and potential customers.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby agent154 » Tue May 22, 2012 10:49 am

JediFreeman:

I, and likely most people here understand that. Most of us are extremely grateful that a developer has decided to go with as little DRM as your company has. I have to wonder though - Why bother with that tiny little bit of DRM at all, if you're being as liberal as you are? Clearly it'll be pointless in stopping any organized criminal pirating of your software. The best it could hope to do is stop some naive customer from sharing it with their friend. Most people know that if they WANT to get a game for free, it's a simple process to just go online and download a torrent for it. I just have to stand on principal here, because I feel that all DRM is pointless and marginally harmful to the customer, regardless of how lenient it is.

Taking from my example above: You could design your online multiplayer to be an amazing experience that would make people want to use it without doing what Blizzard is currently doing with Bnet 2.0. This way you could be 100% DRM free like they did in the old days. A simple CD Key is all that's needed to tie to online usage, and only one person may be online with that key at any time. Or you could go with a similar route to what you're doing with linked accounts for online usage. But at that point, I would only personally request that there be some way to transfer a license to somebody else's account so you could sell or give your game away.

Other than that one small issue, I'm extremely happy to see a game developer treat its paying customers with as much respect as you guys are.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby targren » Tue May 22, 2012 10:53 am

Zidders wrote:Who's being disrespectful or patronizing? i'm not. Hell, I stole Torchlight when it first came out, as well as Borderlands, and many other games. I went back and paid for them later (and in the case of Runic, I apologized) that doesn't change what I did, so i'm the last person to get on my high horse. All I expect is that people realize that it's theft, it's not a protest, so call it what it is and own up to being a theif. Once people realize that that's what they're doing, they're more likely to realize that it causes developers to fear that they won't be compensated for their work and it allows people who want to justify draconian laws that justification.


I have to disagree with you on this one, my friend. It's not theft (if it were, the consequences would be far more sane, for starters, since we've already got laws against theft) any more than it's piracy. That's just the newest buzzword in use now to add an emotive element to the rhetoric since "piracy" lost its bite.

Is it illegal in most jurisdictions? Absolutely. There's no room for subjectivity there, there are laws in place prohibiting it.

Is it wrong? That's a moral judgement, with an entire continuum orthogonal to the legality (which moral judgements usually are, at least in the minds of non-loony-toons). Personally, my position on the subject in general (that I won't get into the details of. I don't really want to start a flame war) is one of "it's a wash." That said, part of the reason I support companies like Runic and CDP, both vocally and financially, is that they exist within the system WITHOUT abusing the system, and I am comfortable rewarding them for that, since it encourages them to keep doing it and, hopefully, convinces other to do the same (though some of the more behemoth companies which shall remain unnamed are clearly a lost cause).

Is it theft? Not unless you five-finger a box off the shelf at your local $GAME_STORE.

JediFreeman wrote:11 - As we have stated before. In the extremely unlikely event that something happens and we have to stop supporting our product. We WILL release a patch that will remove ANY activation requirements at all. I know some of you will see this as an empty promise and there is not really anything I can say that will convince you otherwise. I can only say that has been our statement from the beginning and will not change.


For the record, I'd trust you guys with this promise far more readily than "those other guys" who've made similar assertions. ;)
Last edited by targren on Tue May 22, 2012 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby BrianW » Tue May 22, 2012 10:55 am

agent154 wrote:I have to wonder though - Why bother with that tiny little bit of DRM at all, if you're being as liberal as you are?


We have some minimal DRM primarily so that we can provide a freely available unlockable demo that people can get online. Once they buy the game, they can continue on with their characters without being forced to reinstall. It should be noted that the original Torchlight retail boxes had zero DRM at all.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby Boo » Tue May 22, 2012 10:57 am

JediFreeman wrote:I want to jump in here to clarify some things.

1 - We have, to date, NEVER turned down a single request for additional activations on Torchlight. It is actually rare for someone to consume TEN activations over a multi year period. I think we have had maybe 2-3 dozen?

2 - If you ask us for activation increases - We have access to the activation logs - if we see you requesting large volumes of activations from different regions of the world and different computers within a short time, We will be concerned and will ask you about it. We will want to know what is going on in that kind of sketchy situation (which, you must admit, would be really rare unless you managed to be plane hopping around the world and re-installing the game on a new computer at every airport and hotel along the way - at which point we will ask why, the story alone would be worth hearing :-P ).

3 - If you ask us for activation increases and we see you have activated a bunch from your same computer or IP address over a short period of time, we will know that. I want to stress this in a way only Dr. Seuss can:

We do not care if you install it on all the computers in your house. We do not care if you use your mouse. You can try to install on WINE. If it works, that's mighty fine! You can play it on your LAN, you can play it on the "can" (although that might be difficult). We will up your activations, Sam-I-Am.


4 - The retail "box" version of Torchlight 1 had zero DRM. This goes for both Encore and JoWood versions.

5 - The retail "box" plans for Torchlight II are not yet public where I can go into details on them right now, we will let you know when additional information is available.

6 - With the Torchlight II Runic digital version the DRM will be the same as we had on Torchlight 1 - that is, a key with a generous number of activations by default (we had ten activations for Torchlight 1, the number for Torchlight II is not finalized yet).

7 - The plan is to have the Torchlight II Runic version be an "unlockable" demo like Torchlight 1. This means you can download, install and play without ever purchasing a key, the game just has some restrictions. We have not stated what these are yet, but for example you cannot play Internet Multiplayer (you need a Runic Account linked to a key for that) and there will be a content lock in place to prevent you from playing the entire game (like with the Steam Torchlight 1 demo ending on floor 5). If you like it, you can click "buy now" from the launcher and get a key, put it in and never get bothered again. No re-downloading. No re-installing. Just unlock and get back to the loot.

8 - With that DRM you will only need to activate ONCE on a computer, it will never dial home again (normal caveats about re-activating after reformatting your computer apply). There are no rootkits. There are no custom driver bullshit. There is nothing that accesses or interferes with ANYTHING ELSE on your computer. PERIOD.

9 - With ALL VERSIONS of Torchlight II you will have a key that will link to your Runic Account for INTERNET multiplayer. For the Runic digital version it will be the same key that you use for your DRM. Perfect World digital version is identical to Runic's digital version. Steam players will get a key when the game is released that can be registered to their Runic Account. Once your key is linked to your account this also provides a handy way to get your key back if you lose it later.

10 - Your Runic Account is what you will log into for INTERNET multiplayer. LAN multiplayer has NO LOGINS or any other requirement. You just start a game and start playing.

11 - As we have stated before. In the extremely unlikely event that something happens and we have to stop supporting our product. We WILL release a patch that will remove ANY activation requirements at all. I know some of you will see this as an empty promise and there is not really anything I can say that will convince you otherwise. I can only say that has been our statement from the beginning and will not change.


Mr JediFreeman, Runic and community, I do sincerely apologize for my previous lack of faith that was implied with my original post in this thread. When it comes to software activation, I have had no end of trouble despite being me honest and doing what the (other software) company asks the whole time. Never has a company, until Runic, been so lenient, understanding, and honest with their activation policy, at least none which I have dealt with. All the other companies have lied to me and the community in general, and when I have publicly spoken about it after I caught them out, I got no response. In any case, I did pre-order TL2 from PerfectWorld earlier tonight. I want to support Runic and the community of TL2, despite my (previous) issues with activations. Needless to say though, Runic has now set my mind at ease.

So, please do accept this apology. It is sincere, and please understand that I meant no disrespect nor harm to Runic or anyone else with my previous post in this thread. Also please understand that my previous concerns on the matter where simply manifested from previous dealings with every other product that requires activation, which I have dealt with, and the lies and general 'we don't care' attitude of the other companies. Only now, with Runic, have a met a company that actually genuinely cares and has an honest activation policy.

Once again, sorry.

EDIT: Change 'ie Runic' to 'until Runic', it was in the wrong context the way I had it. :oops:
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby Paws » Tue May 22, 2012 11:02 am

"I never lock my door when I leave because someone could smash a window. Besides, who ever tries the doorknob anyways?"

There's a point where every company decides what's going to net them the most money: people 'standing on principle' or a basic, and generous, restriction system. I've been in that sort of discussion myself (when choosing anti-hack programs for MMOs, in this case) They're just too savvy to say to that crowd you're not worth it in literal terms.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby TheBuzzSaw » Tue May 22, 2012 12:33 pm

As long as the Steam version depends exclusively on Steamworks, I'm happy.

If a DRM-free disc comes out, I will purchase that too. TL2 is worth it.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby JediFreeman » Tue May 22, 2012 12:48 pm

TheBuzzSaw wrote:As long as the Steam version depends exclusively on Steamworks, I'm happy.

If a DRM-free disc comes out, I will purchase that too. TL2 is worth it.


To follow up with Steam info, correct, the Steam version has no DRM outside of Steam itself.

You will still need a Runic Account for Internet multiplayer, and Steam will have a key listed with your game that you will be able to retrieve from your Steam client game page at any time (once the game is launched). Once you have registered that key to your Runic Account, you never need to interact with it again.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby Risingsun » Tue May 22, 2012 1:13 pm

TheBuzzSaw wrote:As long as the Steam version depends exclusively on Steamworks, I'm happy.

If a DRM-free disc comes out, I will purchase that too. TL2 is worth it.


agreed, I'd buy a DRM free disc in a heartbeat, 2 probably. If that happens I hope is a hybrid disc that contains both the Mac and windows version.
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Re: TL2 DRM

Postby elci » Tue May 22, 2012 1:53 pm

Wow there is a lot of amazing info in this thread :) Thanks JediFreeman for enlightening your DRM policy :)
BTW I've pre-ordered from steam just to get tl1 (I know, I'm being cheap) and have to ask this. (imho it is possible, but asking never hurts) Will it be possible for me to use my key in "pirated" (well it's not pirated if I bought it, right?) version of the game? I don't really want to have steam running all the time :oops:
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