[SUGGESTION] Koreans big suggestionlist.

[Arimil]

Not necessarily trash mobs will target whatever enemy they see first thus having a tank go in first he will draw all of the aggro. At that point all of them are pretty much dead by a sorcerer, after the initial burst of enemies they tend not to show up anymore from what I've seen outside of boss' spawning them. DPS class' will draw aggro of high priority targets that don't drop quickly but at that point they should be able to handle that enemy by themselves. Torchlight is an action game and the mechanic you are asking for is severely degrading that aspect by allowing a single character to draw in all of the enemies thus requiring the other class' to simply spam skills and not have to worry about their own survive-ability. Torchlight is an action game, not a tab target MMO.

[Korean]

Torchlight is an action game, not a tab target MMO.

I'm not sure if you're playing on the same difficulty level as we are but on Elite the trash isn't just DPS'd down by a single mage in a second, . Furthermore it's clear that Torchlight is an actiongame, up to four players available, wouldn't call it an MMO just if you implant a taunting mechanism and that's where the beauty comes into play.

You can play this game HOWEVER you want and like (hence why the hefty support for MODS), so how would an taunting mechanism affect your gameplay if you could just choose to ignore it like the other tanking skills or defensive skills? Diablo 3 is one of the leading concepts when it comes to actionRPG, I'm not saying it better or worse because it's different, but they managed to implant a taunt and I don't think it ruined the game in anyway.

So let's sum up; If an taunting ability would come into play that's totally optional, you don't even have to use it or ask your friends not to use it if you rather want to kite with your embermage, it would be a welcome addition to the already tanky skillset and it wouldnt' affect singleplayer the least.

[pantheonw]

I am only an egg, but it occurs to me that if we're concerned about taunt breaking the game, would it not be better (if it were possible) to mod in a scroll to taunt? A non class specific spell?

[Recs]

the AI switches it's attention to whatever is hurting it most it appears

I don't know if it's just me, but that seems to make sense.

I don't see it as a problem.

[wiski]

Furthermore I would like to be able to see: summary of the stats that's getting changed while hovering over another item

This is the only thing I miss from Diablo 3. Of course, in Diablo 3 there really wasn't a lot of difference in weapons and gear aside from changing your stats, where in Torchlight 2 there are a lot more effects and bonuses that gear might have beyond just stat increases, so maybe it wouldn't work so well...

[banhmy112]

How about
A button for normal atks for Outlanders and EmberMage, ctrl button isnt enough.

[shenafu]

Taunt is a cheesy game mechanic. It's a waste of skill if you're playing solo. IOW it would feel wrong to have to respec back and forth when switching between solo and group play.

All the elements of evading and controlling the enemies are already there. Everybody has some form of crowd control. Swap to a cannon to knock them back or stun if you really have to. Ranger has that early game AOE debuff, for instance.

Although I just thought of a new skill, for Berserker or Engineer, is a grappling hook that pulls a small mob (not boss) towards him or her. At least it's flavorful. More points pumped deals more damage and pulls more mobs. Useful in solo as well since it deals damage and pulls a ranged mob into melee range. And you don't need to tack on another layer of invisible variables or modify mob behavior in AI scripts.

[KiwiTheGoo]

I don't like the idea of a taunt because it sucks up one skill slot and it's something that can only be done online (at least with purpose).

[Jenosia]

Thank you, I got a bunch of opinions, for example; Embermages deals way more damage with their autoattacks while pumping focus, making spellcasting become really inefficient up to level 15ish. I will return more tomorrow when we're 3manning every class.

I definitely agree with this. I see no problem with a mage auto attacking sometimes but auto attacking should not be the primarily source of damage for a mage class.

[Arimil]

Torchlight is an action game, not a tab target MMO.

I'm not sure if you're playing on the same difficulty level as we are but on Elite the trash isn't just DPS'd down by a single mage in a second, .

My character was a HC Elite character, with this outlander build I 1-3 shot most any trash mob, unless they had a shield.

You can play this game HOWEVER you want and like (hence why the hefty support for MODS), so how would an taunting mechanism affect your gameplay if you could just choose to ignore it like the other tanking skills or defensive skills? Diablo 3 is one of the leading concepts when it comes to actionRPG, I'm not saying it better or worse because it's different, but they managed to implant a taunt and I don't think it ruined the game in anyway.

It would over simplify combat, degrade AI, which in turn effects the action aspect of the game. It's not a matter of weather I use it but a matter of being a skill that would become a requirement by the masses due to it's ability to over simplify the combat, and it would ultimately make the game much easier and require people to think about what to do far less.

[pantheonw]

I don't like the idea of a taunt because it sucks up one skill slot and it's something that can only be done online (at least with purpose).

If it were a spell, your pet could carry it.

[Korean]

It would over simplify combat, degrade AI, which in turn effects the action aspect of the game. It's not a matter of weather I use it but a matter of being a skill that would become a requirement by the masses due to it's ability to over simplify the combat, and it would ultimately make the game much easier and require people to think about what to do far less.

#1, The AI would remain the same, we're talking about a taunt, a spell that forces the mobs to attack the spellcaster, not a permanent auto-taunt, even though I would enjoy the shit out of it. It wouldn't become a requirement, as you said, it's possible to beat Elite without having a tank, hence why it's not a requirement and regarding how it would make the content easier or dumb down the fellow player I'm not sure, to me kiting isn't that huge of a skill, if you want it to become harder you should remove the Tumble skill from the Outlander and replace the slows with something more fun, especially on the embermages.

As well, I guess you skipped my part of having it optional, don't play or roll a tank if you wouldn't enjoy it. I'm one of those that would love to be able to build a character tanky and be able to actually tank several minions.

[juveddy]

It would over simplify combat, degrade AI, which in turn effects the action aspect of the game. It's not a matter of weather I use it but a matter of being a skill that would become a requirement by the masses due to it's ability to over simplify the combat, and it would ultimately make the game much easier and require people to think about what to do far less.

#1, The AI would remain the same, we're talking about a taunt, a spell that forces the mobs to attack the spellcaster, not a permanent auto-taunt, even though I would enjoy the shit out of it. It wouldn't become a requirement, as you said, it's possible to beat Elite without having a tank, hence why it's not a requirement and regarding how it would make the content easier or dumb down the fellow player I'm not sure, to me kiting isn't that huge of a skill, if you want it to become harder you should remove the Tumble skill from the Outlander and replace the slows with something more fun, especially on the embermages.

As well, I guess you skipped my part of having it optional, don't play or roll a tank if you wouldn't enjoy it. I'm one of those that would love to be able to build a character tanky and be able to actually tank several minions.

Imo it would only serve the purpose of making the gameplay rather simple (you stand your groud and attracting monsters), while defending your partners effectively as the mob chasing them could be so much fun and more challenging.
And btw if the AI starts chasing those who might be the most dangerous for him, (for me) it means it works pretty well.

Finally as TL2 will be moddable I think you can implement this skill if you miss it.

[Korean]

It would over simplify combat, degrade AI, which in turn effects the action aspect of the game. It's not a matter of weather I use it but a matter of being a skill that would become a requirement by the masses due to it's ability to over simplify the combat, and it would ultimately make the game much easier and require people to think about what to do far less.

#1, The AI would remain the same, we're talking about a taunt, a spell that forces the mobs to attack the spellcaster, not a permanent auto-taunt, even though I would enjoy the shit out of it. It wouldn't become a requirement, as you said, it's possible to beat Elite without having a tank, hence why it's not a requirement and regarding how it would make the content easier or dumb down the fellow player I'm not sure, to me kiting isn't that huge of a skill, if you want it to become harder you should remove the Tumble skill from the Outlander and replace the slows with something more fun, especially on the embermages.

As well, I guess you skipped my part of having it optional, don't play or roll a tank if you wouldn't enjoy it. I'm one of those that would love to be able to build a character tanky and be able to actually tank several minions.

Imo it would only serve the purpose of making the gameplay rather simple (you stand your groud and attracting monsters), while defending your partners effectively as the mob chasing them could be so much fun and more challenging.
And btw if the AI starts chasing those who might be the most dangerous for him, (for me) it means it works pretty well.

Finally as TL2 will be moddable I think you can implement this skill if you miss it.

I'm having a hard time grasping the situation, either you didn't read or you didn't care. The taunt doesn't need to be perma-lasting, plus there's several games where taunting doesn't mean you can just stand and take the blows. And I'm actually against the whole modding thingie, I want my game to be pure and my character to be legit, can't really see how Barbarians for that matter is having a simple mechanic in Diablo 3 during Inferno Act 2-3-4... So it has been proven to be functional and yet demanding, plus ruining the mobs AI's just pure dunghole desperation.

[KiwiTheGoo]

As a hypothetical middle ground I would support a weak taunt spell if it came with a small defensive buff, that way it is viable for online and offline, but also not far reaching enough to make enemies a non-issue for non tank characters.

[Perictione]

@Korean: I continue to think granting the melee classes the ability to taunt enemies in one form or another is a terrific idea, but I do have a question: Given the current skills structures for the Engineer and the Berserker, wouldn't it make sense to append a current existing skill with the taunt as a related effect as opposed to setting it up as a separate skill? If you agree (and I hope you do), what skills would be the most complimentary in your opinion?

- P.

[Korean]

@Korean: I continue to think granting the melee classes the ability to taunt enemies in one form or another is a terrific idea, but I do have a question: Given the current skills structures for the Engineer and the Berserker, wouldn't it make sense to append a current existing skill with the taunt as a related effect as opposed to setting it up as a separate skill? If you agree (and I hope you do), what skills would be the most complimentary in your opinion?

- P.

Some viable options;

Berserker:
Hunter - Raze; would be a single target taunt, deal good for nuking down one enemy while dealing additional damage to that target hence the earlier bonuses.
- Wolfstrike; could be used for an short AOE taunt, that means that you can't just dive in, apply the dot and then run out since they're now going to target you by the taunt.
- Battle recovery; this would make you a healing taunt "statue", healing while having aggro in an aoe.

Tundra - Storm Hatchet; Range taunt, would be an odd but funny combination, especially against those pesky archers, it already applies a slow, question is if you should remove the slow or keep it.
- Shatter Storm; instead of freezing the nearby enemies you taunt them (you just slayed one of their companions, shitstorms are bound to happen).
- Permafrost; Could be used like an aoe-tauntslow. Pretty viable.
- Rage retaliation; you deal more damage but also taunting the target you're hitting.

Shadow - Shadow Burst; Just apply a taunt for each enemy you go through.
- Wolfpack; Give each wolf an short taunt.
- Wolf shade; taunt while HoT.

Engineerer
Blitz - Supercharged; next attack within the 10 seconds also applies a taunt.
- Onslaugh; applies a short AoE taunt.

Construction - Strong Defense; Just make it an active bonus effect, taunting the next enemy you hit.

Aegis - Sheild Bash; would work but I feel it would be quite a lot of CC for just one skill.
- Sword 'n Board; Just put an active that triggers a taunt, either AoE or single target.
- Dynamo Field; Add taunt, aoe.
- Ember Reach; just add a short taunt after the pull.


Of course you wouldn't be able to keep all the current values on all the skills if you would apply an taunting effect upon one of them, but still they're viable choices in my book.

Now watch me as I escape their taunting arguments.

[Perictione]

Excellent suggestions all around, Korean. And a hugely interesting thread! Thanks!


- P.

[GigaDager]

I came here for that cat.

[fondaflyer]

the use of pets+engineers aoe attacks don't hold aggro well enough? I haven't tried, just seems surprising that it'd be an issue. I actually didn't get to try the beta out with my friends, couldn't connect to any of them, but I used the engineer and just assumed that tanking worked itself out.

I didn't notice any interface issues, if you open a quest log and you enjoy reading quests...isn't it common sense to not read quest logs when enemies could possibly be nearby? The quest hud can be removed from the side just by clicking an arrow as well, not that you really need the hud..especially if you enjoy reading quest logs, you should remember the quest