E: Information about TL2 DRM by JediFreeman inside

Forum for discussing Torchlight II.

E: Information about TL2 DRM by JediFreeman inside

Postby Skyhaster » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:33 am

TL2 is not completely DRM free Software. TL2 includes an one time online activation per Key for the German boxed Version published by Daedalic Entertainment and those digital ones from PerfectWorld or Runic directly. In contrary to many other games out there TL2 has no rootkits, modified hardware drivers and no background tasks or applications!
Boxed version in Germany is going to be released on mid to end of okt.

Source:
http://forum.daedalic.de/viewtopic.php?f=96&t=1330

A clearing statement from this thread about TL 2 DRM by JediFreeman

Spoiler: show
JediFreeman wrote:I want to jump in here to clarify some things. This is a copy of a post I made a while back with some updates and clarifications:

REGARDING DRM

1 - There are two versions of Torchlight II - Runic and Steam.

RUNIC VERSION: If you buy from us directly, Perfect World, or the Daedalic retail box in Germany, you will get a Runic Key and everything will work the same for all of them. The game is "unlockable", meaning until you enter the key it functions in "demo" mode. Once you have activated, you are done in regards to DRM!

STEAM VERSION: If you buy from a partner that sells a Steam key (Gamefly/Direct2Drive, Gamestop, GamersGate) you will get a Steam Key that you put into your Steam client to unlock the game on Steam. Buying direct from Steam does not give you a key, it just links it to your account! Once you have the game on Steam, you are done in regards to DRM!

2 - The Runic version is an "unlockable" demo like Torchlight 1. This means you can download, install and play without ever purchasing a key, the game just has some restrictions. We have not stated exactly what these are yet, but for example you cannot play Internet Multiplayer (you need a Runic Account linked to a key for that) and there will be a content lock in place to prevent you from playing the entire game (like with the Steam Torchlight 1 demo ending on floor 5). If you like it, you can click "buy now" from the launcher and get a key, put it in and never get bothered again. No re-downloading. No re-installing. Just unlock and get back to the loot.

3 - With the Torchlight II Runic version the DRM will be the same as we had on Torchlight 1 - that is, a key with a generous number of activations by default (ten, the same as we had for Torchlight 1).

4 - We have, to date, NEVER turned down a single request for additional activations on Torchlight. It is actually rare for someone to consume TEN activations over a multi year period. I think we have had maybe 2-3 dozen?

5 - If you ask us for activation increases - We have access to the activation logs - if we see you requesting large volumes of activations from different regions of the world and different computers within a short time, We will be concerned and will ask you about it. We will want to know what is going on in that kind of sketchy situation (which, you must admit, would be really rare unless you managed to be plane hopping around the world and re-installing the game on a new computer at every airport and hotel along the way - at which point we will ask why, the story alone would be worth hearing :-P ).

6 - If you ask us for activation increases and we see you have activated a bunch from your same computer or IP address over a short period of time, we will know that. I want to stress this in a way only Dr. Seuss can:

We do not care if you install it on all the computers in your house. We do not care if you use your mouse. You can try to install on WINE. If it works, that's mighty fine! You can play it on your LAN, you can play it on the "can" (although that might be difficult). We will up your activations, Sam-I-Am.


7 - With our DRM you will only need to activate ONCE on a computer, it will never dial home again (normal caveats about re-activating after reformatting your computer apply). There are no rootkits. There are no custom driver bullshit. There is nothing that accesses or interferes with ANYTHING ELSE on your computer. PERIOD.

8 - As we have stated before. In the extremely unlikely event that something happens and we have to stop supporting our product. We WILL release a patch that will remove ANY activation requirements at all. I know some of you will see this as an empty promise and there is not really anything I can say that will convince you otherwise. I can only say that has been our statement from the beginning and will not change.

REGARDING MULTIPLAYER, THE INTERNET AND RUNIC ACCOUNTS

1 - Your Runic Account is what you will use to log into for INTERNET multiplayer. You can create your account here: https://secure.runicgames.com

2 - LAN multiplayer has NO LOGINS or any other requirement. You just start a game and start playing.

3 - The RUNIC version of Torchlight II gave you a DRM key - To register your Runic Account to play Torchlight II Internet Multiplayer, all you need to do is sign in (or sign up) to https://secure.runicgames.com and register your key. Once your key is linked to your account you can play Internet Multiplayer - this linking also provides a handy way to get your key back if you lose it later.

4 - The STEAM version of Torchlight II does not need a key! All you need to do is sign in (or sign up) to https://secure.runicgames.com and link your Steam account. To do so, you will be taken to a STEAM page to authenticate (we do not store any Steam authentication information) and that will allow us to link your SteamID to your Runic Account. This will magically register Torchlight II if you own it on Steam (yes, you can do this now!).

5 - The Steam link process does not "auto-update" itself - If you do not own the game and you link it to your Runic Account, you can make your purchase on Steam later and then come back to your Runic account and tell it to check again.

6 - An added bonus for linking your Steam account (AND YES, YOU CAN LINK YOUR STEAM ACCOUNT EVEN IF YOU OWN THE RUNIC VERSION) is a neat little feature we will be enabling shortly - the ability to Import your Steam Friends!

- To import your Steam friends, your Steam profile must be set to public - this is due to the way the Steam grants/denies access to your friends list based on privacy.

- Importing your steam friends will most likely be a manual process at launch, but easily done from your Runic Account page.

- When you start the import process, you will be asked if you want to allow your Steam friends to also add you when they import. This setting is saved with your Runic Account and can be changed at any time when you import or by going to Manage My Account.

Hope this clears things up!
Last edited by Skyhaster on Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:59 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby ahhzz » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:32 am

I'm afraid (to my minor disappointment) I saw this "way back when"... When they originally discussed their DRM for TL2, they did note, very quietly, that it would require a single, one-time activation. I would ASSUME (really big letters there), that if you reload your PC, it will require an activation again, as it would if you were lousy enough to not spend an additional $20 for additional PC's you load it on. But again, ASSUMPTION on my part.

Still, it beats the holy living $h!+ and @#$@$QWQ@#$%#ER#$%@#$ out of the rest of the Always on DRM crap you see on so many other titles these days, and considering the work they put in, the care they have for the franchise, and amazingly, the interaction with us, their fan and customer base, I'm willing to pay that small price of a single activation.
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby gerdez » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:30 am

I would also like to know this as I am sure I would play this game on at least 2 computers (not at the same time). So can I just activate one time on both, than hassle around with dropbox and savegames? :D
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby Zidders » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:49 am

It was always implied that Torchlight II would have the same DRM setup as the first game had when it came out, dunno why anyone would have thought any different. As far as anything on the German publishers forum...if it doesn't come straight from Runic, it's not official. You get a lot of activations (10) and they've always been good about giving you more if you need them, though why you'd need more than ten is beyond me.

At least they haven't added more, and with the DRM-free release of Torchlight on GoG, it's a very good sign that Torchlight II will go DRM-free at some point in the future.
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby Cornflake » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:30 am

ahhzz wrote:Still, it beats the holy living $h!+ and @#$@$QWQ@#$%#ER#$%@#$ out of the rest of the Always on DRM crap you see on so many other titles these days, and considering the work they put in, the care they have for the franchise, and amazingly, the interaction with us, their fan and customer base, I'm willing to pay that small price of a single activation.


consider yourself fortunate. most of us are stuck with steam's drm, which requires many hoops to be jumped through if you want to play without an internet connection.
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby UncleJim » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:38 am

Cornflake wrote:
ahhzz wrote:Still, it beats the holy living $h!+ and @#$@$QWQ@#$%#ER#$%@#$ out of the rest of the Always on DRM crap you see on so many other titles these days, and considering the work they put in, the care they have for the franchise, and amazingly, the interaction with us, their fan and customer base, I'm willing to pay that small price of a single activation.


consider yourself fortunate. most of us are stuck with steam's drm, which requires many hoops to be jumped through if you want to play without an internet connection.


What hoops? You download and install the game, then set the game to play in offline mode. And then you are done.
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby gold163 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:38 am

If you didn't want to be stuck with Steam's DRM then why did you buy a Steam copy? But yeah, there be hoops here.
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby OmegaDL50 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:39 am

I wouldn't call logging in, logging out, and loading the game "many hoops"
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby Rathmaker » Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:46 am

Cornflake wrote:
ahhzz wrote:Still, it beats the holy living $h!+ and @#$@$QWQ@#$%#ER#$%@#$ out of the rest of the Always on DRM crap you see on so many other titles these days, and considering the work they put in, the care they have for the franchise, and amazingly, the interaction with us, their fan and customer base, I'm willing to pay that small price of a single activation.


consider yourself fortunate. most of us are stuck with steam's drm, which requires many hoops to be jumped through if you want to play without an internet connection.


Why not just buy a copy of the game from Runic's site when it is released? You only need to be connected to the internet to download the game, and then a one time registration for your game.

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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby Arkham » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:14 pm

Skyhaster wrote:So in contrary to Runic's former affirmation of DRM free Software

You mind pointing a link at this alleged affirmation of DRM-free software? I sure don't recall it.
I do recall them saying they would have very minimal DRM, and saying that a number of times, but that's surely different from "DRM-free."
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby Skyhaster » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:30 pm

Arkham wrote:You mind pointing a link at this alleged affirmation of DRM-free software? I sure don't recall it.
I do recall them saying they would have very minimal DRM, and saying that a number of times, but that's surely different from "DRM-free."


Arkham you're def righ... some of my thoughts are mixed with mems of former TL. Yes, there is nothin new to it. Maybe Max statement about no restrictive DRM drove me to that. I am sorry. Changes are made. hf
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby JediFreeman » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:54 am

I want to jump in here to clarify some things. This is a copy of a post I made a while back with some updates and clarifications:

REGARDING DRM

1 - There are two versions of Torchlight II - Runic and Steam.

RUNIC VERSION: If you buy from us directly, Perfect World, or the Daedalic retail box in Germany, you will get a Runic Key and everything will work the same for all of them. The game is "unlockable", meaning until you enter the key it functions in "demo" mode. Once you have activated, you are done in regards to DRM!

STEAM VERSION: If you buy from a partner that sells a Steam key (Gamefly/Direct2Drive, Gamestop, GamersGate) you will get a Steam Key that you put into your Steam client to unlock the game on Steam. Buying direct from Steam does not give you a key, it just links it to your account! Once you have the game on Steam, you are done in regards to DRM!

2 - The Runic version is an "unlockable" demo like Torchlight 1. This means you can download, install and play without ever purchasing a key, the game just has some restrictions. We have not stated exactly what these are yet, but for example you cannot play Internet Multiplayer (you need a Runic Account linked to a key for that) and there will be a content lock in place to prevent you from playing the entire game (like with the Steam Torchlight 1 demo ending on floor 5). If you like it, you can click "buy now" from the launcher and get a key, put it in and never get bothered again. No re-downloading. No re-installing. Just unlock and get back to the loot.

3 - With the Torchlight II Runic version the DRM will be the same as we had on Torchlight 1 - that is, a key with a generous number of activations by default (ten, the same as we had for Torchlight 1).

4 - We have, to date, NEVER turned down a single request for additional activations on Torchlight. It is actually rare for someone to consume TEN activations over a multi year period. I think we have had maybe 2-3 dozen?

5 - If you ask us for activation increases - We have access to the activation logs - if we see you requesting large volumes of activations from different regions of the world and different computers within a short time, We will be concerned and will ask you about it. We will want to know what is going on in that kind of sketchy situation (which, you must admit, would be really rare unless you managed to be plane hopping around the world and re-installing the game on a new computer at every airport and hotel along the way - at which point we will ask why, the story alone would be worth hearing :-P ).

6 - If you ask us for activation increases and we see you have activated a bunch from your same computer or IP address over a short period of time, we will know that. I want to stress this in a way only Dr. Seuss can:

We do not care if you install it on all the computers in your house. We do not care if you use your mouse. You can try to install on WINE. If it works, that's mighty fine! You can play it on your LAN, you can play it on the "can" (although that might be difficult). We will up your activations, Sam-I-Am.


7 - With our DRM you will only need to activate ONCE on a computer, it will never dial home again (normal caveats about re-activating after reformatting your computer apply). There are no rootkits. There are no custom driver bullshit. There is nothing that accesses or interferes with ANYTHING ELSE on your computer. PERIOD.

8 - As we have stated before. In the extremely unlikely event that something happens and we have to stop supporting our product. We WILL release a patch that will remove ANY activation requirements at all. I know some of you will see this as an empty promise and there is not really anything I can say that will convince you otherwise. I can only say that has been our statement from the beginning and will not change.

REGARDING MULTIPLAYER, THE INTERNET AND RUNIC ACCOUNTS

1 - Your Runic Account is what you will use to log into for INTERNET multiplayer. You can create your account here: https://secure.runicgames.com

2 - LAN multiplayer has NO LOGINS or any other requirement. You just start a game and start playing.

3 - The RUNIC version of Torchlight II gave you a DRM key - To register your Runic Account to play Torchlight II Internet Multiplayer, all you need to do is sign in (or sign up) to https://secure.runicgames.com and register your key. Once your key is linked to your account you can play Internet Multiplayer - this linking also provides a handy way to get your key back if you lose it later.

4 - The STEAM version of Torchlight II does not need a key! All you need to do is sign in (or sign up) to https://secure.runicgames.com and link your Steam account. To do so, you will be taken to a STEAM page to authenticate (we do not store any Steam authentication information) and that will allow us to link your SteamID to your Runic Account. This will magically register Torchlight II if you own it on Steam (yes, you can do this now!).

5 - The Steam link process does not "auto-update" itself - If you do not own the game and you link it to your Runic Account, you can make your purchase on Steam later and then come back to your Runic account and tell it to check again.

6 - An added bonus for linking your Steam account (AND YES, YOU CAN LINK YOUR STEAM ACCOUNT EVEN IF YOU OWN THE RUNIC VERSION) is a neat little feature we will be enabling shortly - the ability to Import your Steam Friends!

- To import your Steam friends, your Steam profile must be set to public - this is due to the way the Steam grants/denies access to your friends list based on privacy.

- Importing your steam friends will most likely be a manual process at launch, but easily done from your Runic Account page.

- When you start the import process, you will be asked if you want to allow your Steam friends to also add you when they import. This setting is saved with your Runic Account and can be changed at any time when you import or by going to Manage My Account.

Hope this clears things up!
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby Seer » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:03 am

Bump for importance.


Also, thank you very much for the detailed overview.
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby zyrth » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:11 am

Awesome bit of information JediFreeman! Really cleared the air a lot for me :)

One simple question though.. does pre-ordering TL2 constitutes to "owning" the game?
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby firethetorch » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:08 am

I think some people get confused because there was talk about Torchlight 1 which was recently released DRM Free on GOG and the cd version apparently was also DRM free. These were both released several years after the game originally came out, so it's probable we'll see something similar for TL2. DRM-Free is always the ideal, but the steam version is just steamworks and the PW is in some ways even more transparent.

And again, we're only paying $20 for a game that a lot of other companies would try to price gauge us $60 for and then segment the entire game into little chunks that're sold at $10-15 a pop as DLC or another $60 a pop as "expansions" as with Blizzardvision.
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby Seer » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:12 am

firethetorch wrote:
And again, we're only paying $20 for a game that a lot of other companies would try to price gauge us $60 for and then segment the entire game into little chunks that're sold at $10-15 a pop as DLC or another $60 a pop as "expansions"



QFT.



There are even 60$ games out there with only a fraction of TL2's content, to top it off.
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby xbon » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:26 am

>STEAM VERSION: If you buy from a partner that sells a Steam key (Gamefly/Direct2Drive, Gamestop, GamersGate) you will get a Steam Key that you put into your Steam client to unlock the game on Steam. Buying direct from Steam does not give you a key, it just links it to your account! Once you have the game on Steam, you are done in regards to DRM!

Does this mean we can launch the game from the games folder without steam being open?
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby JediFreeman » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:00 am

xbon wrote:>STEAM VERSION: If you buy from a partner that sells a Steam key (Gamefly/Direct2Drive, Gamestop, GamersGate) you will get a Steam Key that you put into your Steam client to unlock the game on Steam. Buying direct from Steam does not give you a key, it just links it to your account! Once you have the game on Steam, you are done in regards to DRM!

Does this mean we can launch the game from the games folder without steam being open?


No. When you buy from a partner that sells a Steam Key, you will need to login to Steam, click on the "Activate a Product on Steam" button in the client, enter the key and follow the prompts. It will link Torchlight II to your Steam account and ask if you want to install.

When you buy directly from Steam, it does all of those steps behind the scenes and never exposes a key to you, it just asks if you want to buy as a gift or buy for yourself (which auto-links to your Steam account).
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby freddy » Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:36 pm

JediFreeman wrote:I want to jump in here to clarify some things. This is a copy of a post I made a while back with some updates and clarifications:[...]


Awesome, thx!
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Re: Non Steam Version DRM

Postby omgitsbees » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:28 pm

Cornflake wrote:
ahhzz wrote:Still, it beats the holy living $h!+ and @#$@$QWQ@#$%#ER#$%@#$ out of the rest of the Always on DRM crap you see on so many other titles these days, and considering the work they put in, the care they have for the franchise, and amazingly, the interaction with us, their fan and customer base, I'm willing to pay that small price of a single activation.


consider yourself fortunate. most of us are stuck with steam's drm, which requires many hoops to be jumped through if you want to play without an internet connection.


Setting Steam to offline mode is jumping through many hoops? What? It's a one step process.
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