[VIDEOS+Guide] Chaos Theory: Elite Shotgonne Fun

Discuss the Outlander, a mysterious gunslinger.

[VIDEOS+Guide] Chaos Theory: Elite Shotgonne Fun

Postby Sweeter » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:44 am

Boo!

This is my latest offering in the form of a 50 min video featuring my 'Chaos' spec. The spec is a version of that posted here but different in that it uses a change in gear, a major change in skill points (like using Shattering Glaive) and is different enough in playstyle that I felt it warranted its own thread. Not necessarily because it's better, I just wanted to avoid confusion as it (like the video) is focused purely on endgame. I haven't levelled with this spec. The furthest I have gotten is 56 on EHC with it pre-100. EDIT: Thats a lie, got to 100, its fine for levelling, move along!
The video is in two parts, the first is excerpts from an NG5 speedrun (so *spoiler alert*, most bosses are covered) and the second part is some high-level Tartarus fun.

Warfare (66pts):


Rapid Fire: 10/15.
You need 10pts for the range increase, otherwise its just not a solid attack. Used to lock down Bosses, debuff fatties, and kill things that are bunched up in a line.
Rune Vault: 1/15.
Excellent escape tool. I would argue that more spent in this is always a waste, regardless of the bonus tier abilities.
Chaos Burst: 15/15.
The main attack. Spammable, scales well, devastating when it bounces, applies Blind and Stun to whole groups at once. It also gives the very important Poison debuff. Works as both a single-target Boss attack and a conal AOE on groups.
Shattering Glaive: 15/15.
Sniping tool. Hits extremely hard, can go to the edge of the screen, AOE detonation and debuff in the form of a slow effect. What I use rather than chase after mobs that wander too far out of my range.
Venomous Hail: 10/15.
AOE, Indirect, Poison. 15 pts really is overkill, plus with Cooldowns factored in after 4 secs Chaos Burst spam is doing more DPS.
Shotgonne Mastery: 15/15.
I want to be certain as I can that when I hit a mob, its Blinded. Hence 15 pts. The Stun increase is also very valuable when paired with Venomous Hail.

Lore (16pts):

Bramble Wall: 1/15.
It's a shield, it can block things, use it to gain Charge before bosses, a very handy 1pts wonder, even at endgame it takes hits that could be meant for you.
Share the Wealth: 15/15.
It's hard to find a more consistently solid investment of points than this skill.

Sigil (50pts):

Repulsion Hex: 5/15.
The Flee is quite valuable, but not so much that another 5pts here are worth it. At 5 points its firing fast enough. You have so much crowd-control as it is being a Shottylander, it is normally only lone stragglers that get to be intercepted by the Hex.
Stone Pact: 15/15.
Vastly increases your ability to stand toe-to-toe with even 150+ mobs, and great for topping up from ranged attacks.
Shadowmantle: 15/15.
Ranged deaths were my number one problem in Tartarus before I took this. I admit that now I have Shattering Glaive to pick on mobs that are ranged at extreme range, this is less of a problem in general, but the ability to pop it and basically stand firm, taking a huge amount of projectiles while maintaining DPS is very powerful, especially during bosses+missile packs. Requires a couple of missile reflect gems to be totally reliable, imo.
Master of the Elements: 15/15.
Gives a solid boost to all your offensive attacks, particularly in the case of poison.

Stats and Gear:

You want to put points into Dex to reach 109. The rest goes into Strength. I would recommend putting the first 50 points in Strength.

For levelling, Strength, Health and Damage Reduction are the main stats. Weapon Embers in a gun really help sub 30. After this, a little mana regen is good, and keep an eye out for Shotgonnes that do Poison damage.

At 100, gear enough mana/regen so you can spam Chaos Burst non-stop. Usually I would advocate Focus rather than Mana Regen, as otherwise mana regen is a useless stat that doesn't boost damage, but the amount of Focus required to make this happen ate into my Strength stat. Ultimately DPS was highest when preserving Str wherever possible and socketing mana regen. I happened to get some powerful Focus enchants on my gear alongside Str and left them in place as they were still very useful, but its not a stat I would recommend aiming for at the expense of Strength. After about 1600 Strength, start trying to add in a little Cast Speed. It makes Chaos Burst brutal.

My current list of Best-In-Slot would be as follows:

Boots: Aristocrat Boots of Strength/Movement Speed
Pants: Aristocrat Pants of Strength
Chest: The Chevalion
Head-The Asphyx
Neck-Unearthly Token
Ring 1: Ring of the Players
Ring 2: Ring of the Players
Shoulders: Unearthly Brassarts
Belt: Aristocrat Belt of Strength
Hands: Hands of Orlac
Gun: Day of the Beast


Feel free to correct me if you believe any item listed has a better equivalent, I am happy to test things out. My spells are Concentration, Willpower, Marksmanship and Haste.
As a final note, Willpower as a spell is really, really good for us, especially when we need to reposition as a matter of life or death. Rune Vault isn't everything, and it gives an edge against ice mobs that can really be felt.
Same goes for Bee Swarm on your pet. They cast it all the time, and every little helps. The build is about confusion and control, and being able to DPS constantly while this is happening. My pet uses Animal Handling, Treasure Hunting, Silence and Bee Swarm.

Video Collection:
CHAOS THEORY:
Direct Download (complete movie, best quality)
Youtube Part 1 (NG5 Speedrun/Bosses)
Youtube Part 2 (Tartarus lvl 187-189 mobs)
RICOCHET:
Direct Download
YouTube
EASTER EGGS:
YouTube

Mods used:
4-socket mod this and this.
Repulsion Hex mod here.
Draw Distance mod here.

A Note on Guns:

Here is a list of recommended guns, in order of desirability:

1) Day of the Beast
2) Teslas Coilgun
2.5) 800 Bullets
3) Earths ROAR
4) Steam Valve Rifle (4 sockets)
5) Clonus Horror with upgrade
6) Bullet Naga OR Screwbarrel Express


Ones to look out for while levelling: Bulletsnake, Fleshrender, Lifespring Sniper, Baron Falkensteins Gun (my actual favourite gun, what a beauty!).

With this I pretty much consider my efforts with tweaking the Shotgonne over until there are more challenges available when GUTS comes out. Thank you very much for all the kind e-mails and IMs, they are very much appreciated.

-Okurina

EDIT 1: Mods added.
EDIT 2: Broke 2000 Str, WOOHOO!
EDIT 3: Added short requested video, hastily titled 'Ricochet'.
EDIT 4: Gun list and pet info added.
Last edited by Sweeter on Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:20 am, edited 11 times in total.
User avatar
Sweeter
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:52 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby Perfectionism » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:25 pm

Very nice

Are you sure you do more dmg with Chaos than RF?
Perfectionism
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:20 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby Sweeter » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:29 am

Yep. Although that admittedly has to do with the horrific punishments physical damage gets as you fight higher and higher mobs. I think a RF build with gear that gave a chance to poison (the debuff is so damn strong) and focusing on armor shredding would do just as well however.
I just can't really find that gear atm (but I have consoled it).
User avatar
Sweeter
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:52 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby Perfectionism » Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:38 am

Allright good to know

I guess Ill level up Chaos Burst too then

What I wonder is why you use shotgun? Dont pistols have the same dps ( or even higher ) and higher atkspeed? Or ist it mainly because of the knockback and stun? ty
Perfectionism
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:20 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby Sweeter » Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:01 am

I have always been a fan of Crowd Control in any game I play. The Stun, the Knockback and most of all the

BLIND

are fantastic. I find pistols to be very weak by comparison.
User avatar
Sweeter
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:52 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby Cathulhu » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:49 am

What Sweeter said.

My guide (in sig) uses a shotgun. I recently decided to try it with a pistol. MUCH more difficult, i was surprised. Though you can block with a shield, Blind/ Stun gives an advantage that is non-numerical (like block or increased DPS). Consider that maxed Shotgun Mastery grants 56% stun and 90% chance to blind. most of the time, whatever you just hit can't see (and therefore) retaliate. You just won the fight because most enemies cannot/ will not hit you... Whereas with a a shield and pistol, assuming max dodge (75%) and max block (75%) you'll still get hit eventually.

I was surprised, a good shotgun build does better. (at least with my playstyle.)
"Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cathulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn"
Shadowshot Outlander: A "Sniper" Guide *Elite NG+++*
User avatar
Cathulhu
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:27 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby Sweeter » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:48 pm

Made it to 100 on Elite with this build, from scratch. No re-rolls, no twinking, etc.

So it's perfectly viable as a levelling build. Its a little more gear dependent and risky to play than my Shotgun Surgery, but large groups of mobs pre-60 are much easier to handle.
Grell without Blade Pact was the only rough patch, although 3 points could be floated there for him then unlearned right after he bites the dust.
30ish+ was overall very smooth. And twinked with some half-decent gear from level 1, this spec is a breeze to level with (I tried it to 50 with my twink gear also).
User avatar
Sweeter
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:52 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby dragon84 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:16 am

What about base stats? How much str, dex and focus should I get?
dragon84
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:25 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby Sweeter » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:42 am

The stat question: I spent 5 each level in Str until level 40, then 3:2 Str/Dex until Dex is capped at 110. After this, Strength all the way.
User avatar
Sweeter
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:52 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby dragon84 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:49 am

Wouldn't shattering glaive do very low damage with low focus?
dragon84
 
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:25 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby Sweeter » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:59 am

Well, sort of.

Firstly, its place in the spec is more the utility it gives for firing at targets out of range from everything else, combined with the Flee+Slow+AOE splash.

Secondly, because of the way Torchlight handles crits, with 500% bonus damage from Strength+Gear, and a 79% crit chance with Gear+Dex+Charge/Share The Wealth-it crits most of the time, and even with no points invested in Focus, it crits for quite respectable damage. Plus any gear/skulls/skills (MoE) that increase your overall or Elemental damage will increase it as well.
Thats actually true of any skill that scales with Focus.
User avatar
Sweeter
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:52 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby VZephyrus » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:45 am

Gotta say, ran with this for my first time playing an Outlander, and it is lots of fun. Hard hitting, straightforward and with lots of fun options to vary the fights. Thanks for the tips!
User avatar
VZephyrus
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:25 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby Sweeter » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:31 am

VZephyrus wrote:Gotta say, ran with this for my first time playing an Outlander, and it is lots of fun. Hard hitting, straightforward and with lots of fun options to vary the fights. Thanks for the tips!


Really glad you are enjoying it, you are welcome! I have to say, I had a little more fun levelling with this build than my Shotgun Surgery build, but it was a little more challenging pre 30. After that though, the options you have in combat are really really fun ;)
User avatar
Sweeter
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:52 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby Graeystone » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:27 pm

Sweeter wrote:Yep. Although that admittedly has to do with the horrific punishments physical damage gets as you fight higher and higher mobs. I think a RF build with gear that gave a chance to poison (the debuff is so damn strong) and focusing on armor shredding would do just as well however.
I just can't really find that gear atm (but I have consoled it).

I can attest to the truth of this statement about RF. Throw in Poison Burst and everything starts to die. The downside is that early on RF's range SUCKS until Skill Level 10(Character Level 40) and getting constant Poison Burst Affect doesn't start until about Skill Level 6(32%) or more. But when those hurdles are overcome, HOO-BOY! Things just start to die left and right. The other downside is that RF is a MP hog early on to.
User avatar
Graeystone
 
Posts: 1507
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:27 pm

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Endgame Shotgonne

Postby Sweeter » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:27 am

Graeystone wrote:
Sweeter wrote:Yep. Although that admittedly has to do with the horrific punishments physical damage gets as you fight higher and higher mobs. I think a RF build with gear that gave a chance to poison (the debuff is so damn strong) and focusing on armor shredding would do just as well however.
I just can't really find that gear atm (but I have consoled it).

I can attest to the truth of this statement about RF. Throw in Poison Burst and everything starts to die. The downside is that early on RF's range SUCKS until Skill Level 10(Character Level 40) and getting constant Poison Burst Affect doesn't start until about Skill Level 6(32%) or more. But when those hurdles are overcome, HOO-BOY! Things just start to die left and right. The other downside is that RF is a MP hog early on to.


Indeed. My Shotgun Surgery build threw in 10/15 Poison Burst because I felt that although RF was hitting a little weakly, at least when they died there would be a nice splash of Elemental damage to compensate. The low range is annoying for Rapid Fire, but I don't really feel its a dealbreaker as you don't 'need' that range until about the level you unlock it.
My Chaos Theory build had Chaos Burst right out the gate and so didn't really experience any of these problems, but it was a huge mana hog for some time. The DPS was so large, PB was unnecessary.

I think all physical Outlanders should realise that for competitive, consistent DPS, even though we are busy looking for lots and lots (AND LOTS) of Str, mana regen is hugely important. Concentration as a Spell is mandatory imo, and a few additional mana regen skulls really take the edge of Rapid Fire/Chaos Burst/Rune Vault/Venomous Hail/Stone Pact spam.

With this build, as of yesterdays Boris Spree, I now pretty much have a perfect char gear-wise (and especially enchant wise), but if there is one tiny thing I am missing, its about another 10mana/sec, and I simply can't get it from anywhere!
User avatar
Sweeter
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:52 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Elite Shotgonne Fun

Postby pl4t » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:18 pm

Hi! I realy like this build with all the CC, but 1 thing i dont understand is why you took so many active skills. From your video it seems that RF is unescecery , and that you only use shattering glaive to killl mobs from a distance... So, why not use shadowshot instead? It scales with str, has a huge range, applies blind and stun and hits hard. With shadow shot you can blind bosses from great distances while doing tons of damage in open places.

Rv 1
Chaos burst 15
Venom hail 10
Shotgonne mastery 15
Bramble 1
Dodme mastery 10
Stw 15
Shadowshot 15
Hex 5
Stone pact 15
Shadowmantle 15
Moe 15

this is the spec i thought of, taking shadowshot instead of glaive and having 10 points in dodge mastery from RF. Your thoughts?
pl4t
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:46 pm

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Elite Shotgonne Fun

Postby Sweeter » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:22 am

I use Rapid Fire to kill enemies bunched up in a line. CB isn't so good for that, neither is Shadowshot. I also use RF for its armor stripping, large knockback, and the fact it procs my gun's effects rapidly. Shadowshot doesn't do all that either. As a final point, Rapid Fire almost instantly procs Shotgonne Mastery upon the target. The delay of Shadowshot hitting the target, especially bosses, would be fatal to this build.

Shattering Glaive is used to kill mobs from a distance or to debuff problematic mobs. It's strength is the slow, aoe and fast casting time making it spammable. The burning debuff doesn't hurt either. Shadowshot was tried in this build both instead of Rapid Fire and Chaos Burst. RF+SS was too prone to getting swamped by critters/ranged packs, and CB+SS had no real tools to deal with mobs either at very close or extreme range in large groups. CB is a little random, and when a mob is closing in on you that you HAVE to Blind/kill, I find SS too slow compared to Rapid Fire. I spent well over 100 hours testing real and consoled chars to figure out what worked best, as well as many more actually playing my character; and I firmly believe that this build is pretty much optimal...for how I play. Your milage, of course, may vary. But its a very, very solid build and of all my endgame chars (which are many), the one that uses this build is the best at taking on Tartarus and has also gotten the furthest without dying (level 205 mobs).

It absolutely is personal preference, I like Shadowshot and don't consider it to be a bad skill. Overall though, I prefer my actives to be useful, flexible and powerful OR be very very good at one specific thing (ie Venomous Hail :D ). Shadowshot is a skill that needs to be intelligently built around, and I had no intention of doing this with this build. I would, for example, have invested some skills in Glaive Sweep and the Shadowling Brute if I were making a Shadowshot build. And Cathulu has already posted an excellent Shadowshot build for Shotgonnes in the guides section. After all that TL:DR though, if you are planning on only doing up to 105 mobs on Elite in mapworks, Shadowshot can be substituted in for Rapid Fire no problems. The build you posted will still work awesomely.
User avatar
Sweeter
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:52 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Elite Shotgonne Fun

Postby pl4t » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:41 am

shadowshot is not taking the place of rf, but of shattering glaive. With str builld it does more damage, has the same range and procs blind instead of slow... Seems much better to me.
And about rf, in your videos you barely use it... I didnt test as much as you ofc, but from my experience venom kills lined groups just fine, and the armor striping is less of an issue because we deal mainly poison damage, which most monsters have low resistance to anyway...
pl4t
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:46 pm

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Elite Shotgonne Fun

Postby Sweeter » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:46 am

pl4t wrote:shadowshot is not taking the place of rf, but of shattering glaive. With str builld it does more damage, has the same range and procs blind instead of slow... Seems much better to me.
And about rf, in your videos you barely use it... I didnt test as much as you ofc, but from my experience venom kills lined groups just fine, and the armor striping is less of an issue because we deal mainly poison damage, which most monsters have low resistance to anyway...


Yes, I see that, I misunderstood. But to be honest, then I understand less why you would want Shadowshot. With the build listed and 1900 Str, SG does about 180,000 on a crit, which admittedly is not Shadowshot levels of damage. And yes, if you look at my Tartarus video section, I frequently use SG to attack and kill entire packs of mobs on the very edge of the screen. I accept that Shadowshot can do that also. For me, the Flee/Burning/AOE/Slow is more comfortable/synergistic than Shadowshot and expands the repertoire of the build, but having just now played 45mins or so with it in place of SG, I cannot say for certain and suspect it might be preference. I would say use what you are comfortable with. I will test it out more, and if I think it is better, I will certainly edit my OP and my own build to reflect it.
In my videos I do not use RF very much. Why? Its a safety button. I am extremely comfortable with the build and know its limits, so rarely fall back on it. When levelling, I used it a lot. At 100, while farming, I used it on casters and bosses to instantly lock them down. 2 secs of RF is guaranteed Blind, 2 secs of Chaos Burst is not, especially against lone or fast moving/teleporting mobs. I also frequently use it when engaging many bosses.

Overall, I did play extensively with Shadowshot and found that it was more comfortable in a slightly more cautious, precise, measured build, especially when paired with stuns or immobilize. Shadowshot is a very good main attack, but I chose Chaos Burst for that. SG and RF are complimentary skills that are useful in certain situations. I found both invaluable when levelling, and inside Tartarus I could honestly not imagine going without both.
User avatar
Sweeter
 
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:52 am

Re: [VIDEO+Guide] Chaos Theory: Elite Shotgonne Fun

Postby pl4t » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:20 am

well thanks for your answers!
last question: where did you find the mod which makes your shotgonne have 4 sockets? i cant find it anywhere...
thanks!
pl4t
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:46 pm

Next

Return to Outlander Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests