Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build [NG4]

Discuss the Berserker, a savage barbarian.

Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build [NG4]

Postby Tieryal » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:29 pm

First off, I want to credit

Eisenefaust for doing a ton of theroycrafting in my stream chat. The dude is awesome and had a serious impact on this guide.

Then

Shek's Raze Build [HC Viable] (FULL VIDEO) 10/1 by Shek333 http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=35143

The dude dropped a pretty solid build/advice that I've used as a basis for my beserker almost since the beginning. I've just made some adjustments to it based on what I've seen and where I think the priorities with the beserker lies.

Updated January 23rd 2013

My stats and gear, first Level 100 NG4 Beserker
Full Game Data - http://i.imgur.com/aGin0.jpg
Full Gear - http://i.imgur.com/nmN3q.jpg
Stats Sheet - http://i.imgur.com/lbFFT.png

My Hardcore Elite New Game 4 Run
Part 1 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/851223
Part 2 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/851225

Second level 100 NG4 Beserker (Jan 7 2013)
Full Game Data - http://i.imgur.com/bEsxf.png
Full Gear - http://i.imgur.com/rotri.jpg
Stats Sheet - http://i.imgur.com/R2uLT.png

HCE From Start to finish.
Part 1 is almost from my start. I am level 8. I was playing a little bit the night before off stream since I didn't have a big chunk of time before I had to leave.
Part 1 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1765052
Part 2 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1765053
Part 3 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1765372
Part 4 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1766142
Part 5 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1766348
Part 6 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1768190
Part 7 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1768393 - NL Kill
Part 8 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1770300
Part 9 - DEAD - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1780447 (NSFW)
(The death clip - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1783801)

Since I died I've been re-leveling a character asap back to where the previous one was.
Levels 24 to 42 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1783777
Levels 42 to 59 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1783782

I will most likely be continuing with part 10 tomorrow, since I died at ~63.

Back on track. The 2nd Character.
Part 10 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1789820
Part 11 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1792253
Part 12 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1804272
Part 13 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1819452
Part 14 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1819455
Part 15 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1819456 - NG++ NL KIll and NG+++ speed run to minehead
Part 16 - http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1821753 - NG+++ and NG++++ NL Kill/speed run. Series finished.

Download my character below, along with a saved socket enchanter, and a saved ice enchanter.
None of the characters are flagged for cheating and they are not using any modified or cheating gear.
WARNING : Loading these characters on your account will most likely unlock a ton of achievements that you don't have (like beating the game on HCE) along with a bunch of other stuff. If you don't want this, DO NOT download these files.

*** Download at your own risk! *** http://rapidshare.com/files/2295974497/ ... 072013.rar
JAN 23 Update
http://rapidshare.com/files/1129593644/ ... 3_2013.rar


HCE NG5+ Speed Runs
http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1856057 - 35:39
http://www.twitch.tv/tieryal/c/1870545 - 29:20:37 - current world record


The build with skill points, stat points and scrolls that I am using is here
http://torchlight2armory.com/skill-calc ... 8Ic91CxjkJ

REALLY IMPORTANT. Save the 14 points you have for frost breath until you have enough mana on hit to cover it's 15/15 cost (50). LEAVE it at 1/15 the entire build until that point. Any points in it before and it eats way too much mana.

Previous Build - http://torchlight2armory.com/skill-calc ... _Fpq1i0PkJ

The reason for the 15/15 frost breath vs 14/15 ice shatter. Currently, it's hard to know exactly how much damage ice shatter is giving you on bosses etc, via the reduce frost resistance since we haven't tested exactly how the reduction mechanic works. It is also a build where you would be saving 14 points until you had mana on hit gems to deal with the mana cost of frost breath being at 15/15. Before that is simply a waste as the skill sucks entirely too much mana at 15/15 (frost breath).

Now what I need you NOT to do, is run into that talent calculator and spec our your character to exactly that, because there is some in-between that I want to discuss.

Hunter

Blood Hunger, 1/15
I had previous beserkers with blood hunger higher, around 9 or 11 before they had died. Honestly it is a 1 point talent. The return you get on it, even when critting a lot simply isn't good enough for the points you have to put in it, and it is completely outshined by shadow burst in every way.

Rampage, 1/15
Same as blood hunger, and honestly with 1 point you see it proc all of the time. It's solid to have.

Raze, 15/15
No brainer here. The skill is amazing and is your main single target damage.

Battle Rage VS Howl.

Battle Rage 0/15
I had battle rage at 10 for a while, and then I had it at 5, battle rage at either spot seemed lack luster in terms of the apparent return they were giving me. Enough to the point now where I seriously don't think you should put any points into this skill. Especially because if you have both howl and battle rage in your skill rotation you have less time for dps and you potentially don't cast ice shield soon enough and that is unacceptable (more on this later).

Howl 15/15
Until recently I had used Battle Rage and this skill is clearly superior.
The Attack Speed/Cast Speed reduction: It's extremely useful on multiple levels. Mobs that cast fast, or attack fast have a serious reduction in their damage output, and it is extremely noticeable. This survivability is much greater than what %DR reduction battle rage is going to give you. Factor that in when you should already be at 75% DR anyways, and it's clear who the winner is. I still haven't tested if Battle Rage is a flat reduction in damage against the mobs hitting you (as in, their damage is lowered before the swing) or it's defense effect is entirely canceled out by having 75% reduction. If someone has notes on this it would be appreciated.

The Slow: The slow is actually really useful, in many ways, some are mob specific, others are just mechanics. You can cast howl on mobs chasing you that are in the front of the pack to slow them down to bunch up with the rest of the mobs, allowing you to more effectively AOE them down. AKA, 1 NR instead of 2. Also, this is more mob specific but the charging yeti's in the ice zone in act 1. If you debuff them with howl their charge (which is usually easy to dodge to begin with) get's stupidly easy to avoid, especially with a lot of chaos going on when fighting multiple mobs (like doing Chillhoof with a few mobs up). This allows you to maximize your survivability by giving you the greatest amount of time to react to what's going on around you.

The damage buff: Yep. It's good.

Tundra

Frost Breath, 1/15 (15/15)
This is for the 20% flat damage debuff. Later on you get 15/15 for mana on hit properties when you have enough mana on hit.

As for theory crafting, something that is interesting to note, is 15/15 frost breath procs weapon effects, like mana on hit. If you were to obtain a high dps weapon with 4 sockets, socket them all with +48 mana on hit gems, you could get enough mana back from mobs with ice breath to cover the cost of ice breath AND a northern rage cast. Since both are ranged it would be possible to avoid contact with most mobs, increasing your survivability by a shit ton (on top of it freezing them). It also charges your charge bar. I don't have the gear on my main to test it's viability and I haven't made a sandbox character.

Northern Rage 15/15
This is by far the second best ability in the game for beserkers. It puts out such a serious amount of damage when combined with Shatter and Cold Steel Mastery. It keeps you safe, it knocks mobs around, it's long rage, the pathing is generally really good. It's a solid skill.

Ice Shield 10/15
Simply the best skill in the game for beserkers. A shield that reflects with 100% chance all missiles, has a cooldown shorter than the duration, so it's capable (AND SHOULD BE WITHOUT EXCEPTION) up all the time? You're insane if you play HCE without this.

Cold Steel Mastery, 14/15 and Shatter 1/15
They are simply awesome. CSM gives you a LOT of damage. Shatter is for a good aoe/freeze


Shadow

Shadow Burst 15/15
The third best skill in the game for beserkers. You should always be getting this skill. It increase your survivability almost as much as ice shield. It gets you out of tight spots, it breaks shields and scales with as much HP as you can stack. It's fucking amazing.

Battle Standard 15/15
Battle standard being 15/15 has more to do with the dodge cap more than anything else. If you're playing Shield (you should be), it puts you way over 100% knock back which is really useful on boss fights that knock you around so you can stand there are really shell out some DPS. The mana regen is a great bonus. It allows you to disengage from fights and gets some mana back (re-cast ice shield) and then go back into fights. This also gets you to the 75% dodge cap.

Shred Armor 15/15
Less armor for them. More armor for you. More DPS and survivability? Yesplz.


Stat points: aka, really important.

Vitality
A lot of people give this stat shit because the health return you get from it really is lack luster in later stages in the game. If I can gem 1 socket with a 1540 health, why the fuck would I put points into vitality? Block. That's why. (But seriously, it's a joke for health)
The block cap is 75%. 50% is the maximum you can get from stats, but that can be pushed over via gear/enchants/scrolls to 75%.

What you should look for IS, a low, or lower vitality, and a shield/scroll with high block.

Shield Examples
http://torchlight2armory.com/item?i=440040242467359961 It has 15/10 Block roll.
http://torchlight2armory.com/item?i=-43 ... 1342490004 with a 15/14 block roll
http://torchlight2armory.com/item?i=4252065139122178044 (15/30)

There are also the blocking scrolls to increase your block. The highest is level is 6 (12% block) . What this means is you should get your vitality to 100 through stat points.

100 vitality will give you 18% chance to block. The higher block shield will give you 15/30 (45%) and the 12% scroll together will put you are 75%

Given the fact that you are playing HCE. I DON'T SUGGEST having such a low block value for such a long period of time before you get that 45% shield. It's not that it can't be done, it will just be a lot harder. Especially early on when you don't have 10 points in ice shield. Maybe enchanting for vitality to get another +95 would be good, wear a 15/10, and get at least 70%.

I previously thought that you might not be able to do well in HCE with only 100 vit for block before you get the 45% shield and the higher scroll. With some mid level enchanting you can make up for any loss of block percent early on in the game and it actually isn't that bad to begin with. You still end up with plenty of block for late game before you find the shield.

Dexterity
The dodge cap at 75% is 226 dex + battle standard. IMO, over this amount is simply wasteful.

Strength:
The rest in strength that you have chosen not to put into vitality, after 226 dex.

Scrolls
Dervish 6 - Attack speed and cast speed. It's amazing.
Haste 6- This is specific for doing speed runs and getting around, I use the added attack speed for killing bosses
Block 6 - Explained above.
Concentration 6/WildCard -
I sometimes use 15% MF on this because right now It's hard to squeeze any MF into my build without coming to close to dying. I really think it's a toss up on what could go in here. I REALLY don't think it should be spells you have to cast, so if anything choose another passive. Dervish and Haste casts already take up a lot of mana and cast time when combined with debuffing a boss to dish out damage.

I exclusively use Concentration in this slot now. It's simply too good.

Concentration 6 is useful and it can help out in tough situations where you need to be away from a target before going back in.

Gear Setup
Fast Weapon high dps + Shield.
75% Damage Reduction via Eyes of Grell http://torchlight2armory.com/item?i=6633021093315468842 and later on Skulls of Liamony http://torchlight2armory.com/item?i=2863057877929089441
The rest +HP via Skulls of Riechliu http://torchlight2armory.com/item?i=8105819619744702822


Other Notes

Weapon Sockets.

What I would suggest is mana on hit. As much of it as you can get. The less time you have to spend auto attacking the boss for mana the better, because you spend it on casting ice shield/NR/Raze/Howl/Dervish/Haste etc.
http://torchlight2armory.com/item?i=-1937259119032091020
http://torchlight2armory.com/item?i=-4669548412537397165

You can forgo the MoH (Mana on Hit) weapon sockets if you happen to have % mana stolen gear that you are using and can survive with. I didn't find any on my character during the runs that were good enough to warrant using. The 2pcs set bonus from Inquisitor might be the best to get and then you can socket something else into your weapons. Maybe some more +ice damage, or +poison/+ice for the poison debuff.

Weapon enchants.

I've always done ice damage. It's better than flat +str. For gear, +str is better because the + ice damage comes as a percentage.

Ice Shield

Don't ever have this down in HCE NG+'s. It will be your downfall. Also learn early on what can be deflected and what can't be. IE. Grells ground slam is 100% reflected by this, but Grand Regents ground slam is not at all (From what I've seen, I try to avoid his ground slam at all costs. It hits too fucking hard).

Don't worry about spamming howl. If you have a choice between howl and ice shield, it's ice shield, every time.

DPS vs Bosses

You cast a lot of spells with long-ish animations so a boss fight might start looking like this.. Drop battle standard, cast ice shield, pop Dervish, Haste and howl, auto attack for full mana, frost breath raze raze raze, full mana frost breath raze raze raze, ice shield, full mana frost breath raze raze raze, howl, battle standard, ice shield, full mana frost breath, raze, raze, raze. You get the idea.

Big shout out to my stream viewers, you helped shape a lot of this information. You make gaming a lot more fun and interactive. My stream count use to average a smaller amount of people, but every day it grows and I appreciate EVERY single one of you that sit in my stream. You're all wonderful and I hope you know that. <3
Last edited by Tieryal on Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:18 am, edited 75 times in total.
Hardcore Elite 100 Beserker NG(4) Cleared, World First.
http://twitch.tv/tieryal
http://forums.runicgames.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=43170
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Re: My current build for beserkers in HCE NG++

Postby Tieryal » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:33 pm

HCE Tips for progression.

  • Stay out of phase beast portals
  • Stay away from traps (DURRRR). No seriously. They fuck you up. Act 2 has the most deadly traps I believe.
  • Traps either ignore partial amounts of damage reudction or they ignore all of it. Not sure which because I avoid them like the plague.
  • Traps in the floor tiles do MUCH more damage than chest traps.
  • Stay out of The Frosted Hills as much as you can (act 1 part 2). The ice yetis there pump out insane amounts of broken damage. If you have to go there, don't get feisty and pull a lot of stuff. Always pull mobs slowly and be careful. Even if you out level the mobs by 10+ levels they can combo 1 shot you.
  • Never get hit by Grand Regents ground slam. It's really deadly, and isn't reflected by 100% ice shield
  • Always loot grand regent and run through the town portal. There is a bug where he kills you after he is dead.
  • 75% DR, 75% block, 75% dodge +HP stacking is the way to go. So aim for that.
  • I suggest when you travel to a new zone you pull single mobs and let them hit you, to find out how much damage you're against. If it is to high, you might consider leaving and farming more gear in the previous act.
  • The boss at the end of act 2 puts his drill in the floor and the explosions he spawns for it is enough to destroy you. Even with 75% DR it has the potential to 1 shot you, BUT it will never happen as long as you are paying at least a little attention.
  • Never be scared to run the fuck away.
  • EVERY piece of gear you replace goes into your shared stash and onto a mule. Don't vendor them. You will need them when you level up a new character, because lets face it. You're going to die.
  • Don't be scared to use pots. I have 1.5 million gold, 800 in my inventory and when I'm at 50% health even now I'm like "Yeah I don't have to use these pots I can get away with it". What a stupid fuckin idea. Use them. Don't be stingy.
  • Missile reflect 100% is amazing. If you are playing on a beserker, 10/15 ice shield is required. If you aren't, try to get it as high as you can on your character, you will avoid SO much damage.
  • Collect gems and gear for move speed sets. You're going to be doing a lot of farming, so you want to be able to run bosses fast. I've run Grell probably at least 30 hours. I run Grand Regent, Manticore, Alchemist and some others but most of the farming is done on those low level guys because those are the big hurdles you have in the acts. You need to have gear after grell for grand regent, and then again for the 2nd half of act 2.
  • When farming gear, remember you can transmute 4 uniques for 1. You should do this if you can afford it. I was vendoring them for a long time because my burn rate was higher than what I was getting back, but as soon as I tipped over that point I made sure to transmute and I've gotten a few pieces of gear out of it.
  • Save your vendor boon scroll on a mule or a stash if you happen to get one. Only use it in a maximum level area, the gear he spawns with is based on the zone (so I'm told) and bring 6 people into the zone if you can. He will have a different shop for each person looking at him so it's your best chance to get the most out of him. The gear is also really expensive.
  • I would stay away from the event in act 3, you don't have to do it.
  • The majority of the mobs you run into in the start of act 3 explode and it goes through a lot of your defenses and do some pretty serious damage.
  • Projectiles that turn into fire in the ground (archer arrows) can still be reflected from 100% missile reflect even when it turns into the ground bullshit.
  • Most or all caster fire or ground effects via caster can't be reflected via 100% reflect or ice shield.
  • Stop at the blacksmith early on when you re-roll games. He can sometimes have upgrades.
  • When you kill Chillhoof make sure you pull all of his mobs before him first, you can pull most of them one by one and kill them before he is even out. There is no reason to not fight chilhoof 1v1.
  • In act 3 you get vendors that sell high versions of scrolls. Reroll the map until you get the version you need. It's worth it.
  • The Genie fight is too long to get to, and to do, to farm. Don't bother.
  • There are uniques that are dropped by multiple bosses or are like "global uniques". Kinda like the BOE epics you have a chance to get in raids that could come from any mob. IE, I've gotten the same unique shield from Grell (or Grand Regent) and Manticore
  • The nether tentacles that come out of the ground in groups in the shadow areas hit hard and fast. Try to avoid them or kill them with nothing else around.
  • Both types of zombies in act 2 (the pull and slow) get first target priority in most cases. The slow is terrible, and them pulling you around sucks even more.
  • What level you are DOESN'T MATTER There is no inherit damage reduction you do to mobs, or mobs do to you based on your level. A level 65 will do just as much damage to a level 105 mob as he does to a level 65 (minus their higher innate armor/defense). But it's not like other RPGS where you will just do 1 damage to those mobs. This means lower level areas are JUST as dangerous even if you out level them, but have no NEW gear since the last time you were there. Stay on your guard.


Why I don't think Wolf Shade is that good, but it's useable.

Here's why.

  • In HCE I was worried about 1 big thing. Dying from 1 hit or < 1 second. I don't care how much lifesteal/life on hit you have, if you can't deal with that you wont get anywhere.
  • The HP steal is flat, based on damage, it doesn't scale with your health.
  • Shadow Burst can take care of any healing needs you have almost instantly, but you will lose DPS.
  • I don't think my build specifically has the point allocation to really get the skill. There just isn't enough points to go around.
  • You already need to debuff with howl, have 100% ice shield up time and debuff with frost breath then get cast cycles in with raze. It's only a once in 60 second cast, but it can factor in a little.
  • I don't relying on other things to get my health back like mob AI. I want to be able to depend on the character. I wont always be able to do that with an AI life steal, or count on it being there when I need it. If it attacks while I'm at full health (doing nothing), then I get hit REALLY hard, get a bad RNG, get hit again and then die because it hasn't attacked another mob it would be lame.

Having life steal later on (like currently where I am) would be useful for a DPS increase, simply because I would have to shadow burst less and could stand and do more damage, but since I'm always worried about survivability and not DPS I tend to not care about the stat.


Posted below, but added here.

Nauzhror wrote:
Tieryal wrote:Both types of zombies in act 2 (the pull and slow) get first target priority in most cases. The slow is terrible, and them pulling you around sucks even more.


Just to further pound that one in.

The first HCE attempt that I made past Act I ended in the Forsaken Vaults because I got "pulled" into a floor-spike. Not only do you kill the zombies and the claw-enemies first, you make sure you do not do it anywhere remotely near a floor trap.

Also I've never played as a berserker at all - so will not pretend to know how to play the class, but a couple more things in general I've realized from playing HCE that aren't mentioned are:

1.) The nastiest creature in Act I, at least for some classes, (might not be the case as a berserker but it sure is as an embermage) is not a boss, it is the alpha screechwing bats that are in the cave with Chillhoof on the floor above him. They summon more bats - and they swarm you and can drop your entire health in seconds when they do so. The only way I can foresee them not being incredibly dangerous is if you have farmed Grell's eyes before going near Chiilhoof.

2.) Potions that heal significantly more hp than your total hp might seem like a waste, but are often worth purchasing (they aren't sold in the shop early on, bit your pet can buy them any way). It's not their total HP heal amount that matters, it's the amount they heal per second that can make them useful, Heal Self spells can be useful for the same reason (not in lieu of using heal potions) - cast heal self at the same time as you pop a potion so the effects stack and you heal faster. Over-sized potions and simultaneous heal self+heal potion aren't for healing between fights, they're for those "Oh shit." moments when you get swarmed and watch your HP plummet and need to rapidly heal or die.



How stuff works [Defense]
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=55943#p469651
Last edited by Tieryal on Thu May 23, 2013 9:32 am, edited 10 times in total.
Hardcore Elite 100 Beserker NG(4) Cleared, World First.
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Re: My current build for beserkers in HCE NG++

Postby eisenefaust » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:58 pm

Hi Runic Community!
I'm Eisenefaust and I approve of this message.
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby manerd » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:06 am

I'm trying your build. Not playing HCE, just my first berserker on veteran. At 15 right now and having a lot more fun than I did with my outlander.
Last edited by manerd on Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby exxxie » Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:13 am

I really appreciate the time and effort you've put into this build and post. Gonna roll HCE now with this.
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby Tieryal » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Updated with common tips on my experience.
Hardcore Elite 100 Beserker NG(4) Cleared, World First.
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby KareshiKraise » Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:08 am

awesome build Tiery

i love watching your stream!
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby Tieryal » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:05 am

KareshiKraise wrote:awesome build Tiery

i love watching your stream!


Thanks :)
Hardcore Elite 100 Beserker NG(4) Cleared, World First.
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby Isdrydge » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:51 am

We have nearly the same build and based on Shek one.

Something which can be great is to add is the skill order no ?
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby ThatMountain » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:12 pm

@OP

Funny thing, I'm busy rolling my 3rd Zerker atm (SC, im not quite ready for HCE) and my build is almost exactly the same as yours...and I don't borrow from other people :D Nice little changes you have that I might try out. I feel the time for Elite HC is drawing near. My body is ready.

OH! and Gratz on the (World First?) HCE NG(4) clear. With a zerker to boot! Huzzah!

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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby Tieryal » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:52 pm

Haha.

Thanks!

That's awesome you came up with a similar build on your own. I highly suggest HC. Even if you aren't ready for it. There is nothing like the rush of almost dying, or actually dying and losing a character. After a while, losing them doesn't feel that bad.

One of my beserkers died and I was actually like "Good, now I can re-roll because I fucking hate the decisions I made on that one". Every one of them got better and better and I feel like you really have a chance to grow, and learn from your mistakes. It's awesome.
Hardcore Elite 100 Beserker NG(4) Cleared, World First.
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby Maxxie » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:19 pm

Man, I looked at your build and applied it to my zerker and I thank you! I'm dying less often now, ice shield really does make a difference in boss battles.
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby LLee » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:51 am

Nice guide, lots of nice tips at the end as well. There are a few things I thought I'd mention. The dark red color of the hunter tree headers is moderately difficult to read with the dark forum colors. Also in regards to howl:
Mobs that cast fast, or attack fast have a serious reduction in their damage output, and it is extremely noticeable.

Is this trying to imply that the speed reduction lowers the damage from a fast attacker more than a slow one, or that the relatively small damaging attacks of those mobs is easier to ignore over time instead of a large mob almost 1-shotting you less frequently over time? If you mean the former, you are incorrect- the percentage less of damage you would receive is the same. If you mean the latter, it isn't really obvious the way you are saying it.

I think I'll try this for my next berserker. I died using a modified shek's build and I think this build is the logical extension of where my modifications were headed.
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby Tieryal » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:18 am

LLee wrote:Nice guide, lots of nice tips at the end as well. There are a few things I thought I'd mention. The dark red color of the hunter tree headers is moderately difficult to read with the dark forum colors. Also in regards to howl:
Mobs that cast fast, or attack fast have a serious reduction in their damage output, and it is extremely noticeable.

Is this trying to imply that the speed reduction lowers the damage from a fast attacker more than a slow one, or that the relatively small damaging attacks of those mobs is easier to ignore over time instead of a large mob almost 1-shotting you less frequently over time? If you mean the former, you are incorrect- the percentage less of damage you would receive is the same. If you mean the latter, it isn't really obvious the way you are saying it.

I think I'll try this for my next berserker. I died using a modified shek's build and I think this build is the logical extension of where my modifications were headed.


By serious reduction in their damage output I'm referring to their DPS. Mobs do just as much "damage" as a value. High DPS mob packs turn into low DPS mob packs, causing you to take less damage over the same period of time.

When 15/15 howl is casted on a slow swinging mob, it becomes a hilariously slow swinging mob. In some cases the damage is even completely mitigated because you kill him before he can even swing once, or it's so slow that you simply move out of the way entirely.
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby ThatMountain » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:30 pm

Howl is a fantastic ability. I lurve it
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Re: My current build for beserkers in HCE NG++

Postby Nauzhror » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:14 pm

Tieryal wrote:Both types of zombies in act 2 (the pull and slow) get first target priority in most cases. The slow is terrible, and them pulling you around sucks even more.


Just to further pound that one in.

The first HCE attempt that I made past Act I ended in the Forsaken Vaults because I got "pulled" into a floor-spike. Not only do you kill the zombies and the claw-enemies first, you make sure you do not do it anywhere remotely near a floor trap.

Also I've never played as a berserker at all - so will not pretend to know how to play the class, but a couple more things in general I've realized from playing HCE that aren't mentioned are:

1.) The nastiest creature in Act I, at least for some classes, (might not be the case as a berserker but it sure is as an embermage) is not a boss, it is the alpha screechwing bats that are in the cave with Chillhoof on the floor above him. They summon more bats - and they swarm you and can drop your entire health in seconds when they do so. The only way I can foresee them not being incredibly dangerous is if you have farmed Grell's eyes before going near Chiilhoof.

2.) Potions that heal significantly more hp than your total hp might seem like a waste, but are often worth purchasing (they aren't sold in the shop early on, bit your pet can buy them any way). It's not their total HP heal amount that matters, it's the amount they heal per second that can make them useful, Heal Self spells can be useful for the same reason (not in lieu of using heal potions) - cast heal self at the same time as you pop a potion so the effects stack and you heal faster. Over-sized potions and simultaneous heal self+heal potion aren't for healing between fights, they're for those "Oh shit." moments when you get swarmed and watch your HP plummet and need to rapidly heal or die.
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby WarMogul » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:49 pm

So far as hitting 226 Dex, about how much of that is reasonable to expect from Borris? ~120 or so? More? Less? I mean there's not much point to going over 226, so getting as much as possible from Borris seems like it would be the best bet so that you can dump a few extra points in Str. You suggest getting ~95 Vit from enchants but that seems a little low. Then again I have no idea what his enchants look like at the highest levels.

Oh, and thoughts on Weapon Expertise in the 4th spell slot? Unnecessary compared to Treasure Hunter/Concentration, or...?
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby xkilla » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:13 pm

WarMogul wrote:So far as hitting 226 Dex, about how much of that is reasonable to expect from Borris? ~120 or so? More? Less? I mean there's not much point to going over 226, so getting as much as possible from Borris seems like it would be the best bet so that you can dump a few extra points in Str. You suggest getting ~95 Vit from enchants but that seems a little low. Then again I have no idea what his enchants look like at the highest levels.

Oh, and thoughts on Weapon Expertise in the 4th spell slot? Unnecessary compared to Treasure Hunter/Concentration, or...?


Why are you referencing 226 Dex? Why is this value of any significance? The Critical Hit Chance and Dodge soft caps from Dex are somewhere between 486 and 500 Dex.

Borris can and will net you a TON of Dexterity, should you have the time and patience. On my original Ravager, he has 120 base Dex, but a total of 600+ Dex after gear and enchants. You can get quite a lot of stat points from gear and Mr. Borris.

EDIT: Ok, I went back up and re-read the OP where it talks about 226 Dex + Battle Standard. I guess if you feel the need to go that heavily into Battle Standard... but then, you really shouldn't put any points into Dex at all and just get it from gear/enchants. However, this is a HCE discussion so doing that would be a very bad idea haha :D I'd say don't finish putting points into Battle Standard until you have your gear/enchants sorted out, providing the only reason you're going with Battle Standard at all is for the Dodge.
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby Tieryal » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:33 pm

xkilla wrote:
WarMogul wrote:So far as hitting 226 Dex, about how much of that is reasonable to expect from Borris? ~120 or so? More? Less? I mean there's not much point to going over 226, so getting as much as possible from Borris seems like it would be the best bet so that you can dump a few extra points in Str. You suggest getting ~95 Vit from enchants but that seems a little low. Then again I have no idea what his enchants look like at the highest levels.

Oh, and thoughts on Weapon Expertise in the 4th spell slot? Unnecessary compared to Treasure Hunter/Concentration, or...?


Why are you referencing 226 Dex? Why is this value of any significance? The Critical Hit Chance and Dodge soft caps from Dex are somewhere between 486 and 500 Dex.

Borris can and will net you a TON of Dexterity, should you have the time and patience. On my original Ravager, he has 120 base Dex, but a total of 600+ Dex after gear and enchants. You can get quite a lot of stat points from gear and Mr. Borris.

EDIT: Ok, I went back up and re-read the OP where it talks about 226 Dex + Battle Standard. I guess if you feel the need to go that heavily into Battle Standard... but then, you really shouldn't put any points into Dex at all and just get it from gear/enchants. However, this is a HCE discussion so doing that would be a very bad idea haha :D I'd say don't finish putting points into Battle Standard until you have your gear/enchants sorted out, providing the only reason you're going with Battle Standard at all is for the Dodge.


All of the choices really work. You could get enchants for dex if you don't want to do 226. If you do, you can focus on getting all +str from the enchanter, harder, but still do-able.
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Re: Tieryal's HCE Beserker Build

Postby Tieryal » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:15 pm

WarMogul wrote:So far as hitting 226 Dex, about how much of that is reasonable to expect from Borris? ~120 or so? More? Less? I mean there's not much point to going over 226, so getting as much as possible from Borris seems like it would be the best bet so that you can dump a few extra points in Str. You suggest getting ~95 Vit from enchants but that seems a little low. Then again I have no idea what his enchants look like at the highest levels.

Oh, and thoughts on Weapon Expertise in the 4th spell slot? Unnecessary compared to Treasure Hunter/Concentration, or...?


100 vit will work fine if you're getting the 45% shield, but if you don't have it you will be short (obviously). My current serker has 195 unbuffed vit, 226 unbuffed dex and rest in str. I try to enchant STR the most but I also have some dex/vit enchants.

My beserker ended up "sub optimal" in the stats section, but was still able to clear NG4 like it was a joke.

Given the ability of the build to output damage, I don't really think it would be more useful than having the mana regen of Concentration.
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