Speedrun benchmark?

[Charon]

Was going for the "under 5 hours" steam achievement.

http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/98057628-4.jpg

Picture truncated, so click the link for full size (which shows the journal on right hand side. )

How'd I do? What's the fastest anyone has managed?

[bad4brain]

Nice
My fastest run was about 4 hours. And I died a lot

[Charon]

Yeah. I was on easy though. I thought it would be a tighter run to get under five hours. And when I killed Krag at 1 hour 19 I still thought it was gonna take me just over 3 hours. I'm pretty sure someone must have done it faster though. I really enjoyed it so I'm eager to see what kinda times people have got for me to test myself against if I do another one sometime.

[morphmurph]

Nice job. On Easy Hardcore I did it in 3hrs 21min (got the <5 & <8 hr and Easy Hardcore achievements). Next run I am going to aim for 2:30 and then sub 2hrs.
Might try it with an Alch next.



-Update-
mods installed: Arithmancy, Geomancy, Ferret Pet, More Maps, Potions Stacksize, Respec Mod
equipment: All items were found during run

[Charon]

Hardcore would be slower. I had the luxury of not having to worry about dying (although I didn't) and also having access to four previous characters' gear. If you get under two hours, let me know. I have a feeling it's not easy to get much lower although I bet having the haste spell might help, and possibly that set that gives only faster movement bonuses. I still reckon there's gonna be a physical cap around 1:40.

[morphmurph]

My Alch just finished in 2:33.


If I can get myself to stop saving gems and unique/set items I can skip going back to town to save a few minutes. Never did find/buy the Haste spell. I also skipped the Teleport skill which would have saved a little time.

I messed up early when I chose Ember Shock as my skill. Casting was slow. Once I switched over to Ember Bolt things went quicker (loaded up on mana potions). Ordak was a pain and I actually died After the run I respeced to use Ember Lance and did the Hatch runs. The skill tore through everything.

Next time I will skip saving anything, start with Ember Bolt and then respec to use Ember Lance. Getting close to 1:40 would require picking the correct path through each level so back tracking is minimized. In addition to bypassing groups of monsters and killing monsters en masse and not 1 by 1. I wonder how many levels you could gain by just killing champion/boss monsters and skipping normals?

I am now taking a Vanq on a speed run. Using Ricochet and will respec to use Explosive Shot.

-Update-
mods installed: Arithmancy, Geomancy, Ferret Pet, More Maps, Potions Stacksize, Respec Mod
equipment: All items were found during run, heirloom was a ring (level required 35+, boosting the magic find)

[morphmurph]

Well I have reached my 3rd goal of 2hrs with a Vanq. Was over by 28 seconds.This time I didn't save any items. I had to make ~3 trips to town for mana and respec potion.
Next up is 1:50. Explosive shot is fantastic. Will be better when I get a higher damage weapon and higher critical chance.


I have been using found gear which hampers my weapon choices. I am going to start enchanting a weapon (been using a ring to get high magic find) when I retire toons so I can get a high damage weapon to use at a low level. I will also equip my next speed toon with gear to help boost critical chance and damage (have a few chaos gems with +4 critical). My next toon will start with a ton of mana/health potions so I don't have to keep picking them up. These speed runs are a lot of fun. I can get through the story and the hatch quests in one afternoon.

-Update-
mods installed: Arithmancy, Geomancy, Ferret Pet, More Maps, Potions Stacksize, Respec Mod
equipment: All items were found during run, heirloom was the same ring given to my Alch (prev post)

[morphmurph]

Really this will be my last post to this thread (well maybe).
I just did another run in 1:35 with a Vanq. So I was able to knock off about 30 minutes per run. I could probably crack 1:30. But as I said in last post I need to start enchanting a low level weapon to get higher damage. I suffered disenchantment on two good weapons trying to get sockets so I could use 2 damage gems.


I loaded her up with gear so I didn't have to pick items up except the occasional potion. Started with about 100 mana/health potions and every time I saw a merchant I bought more.
Maxed skills in following order: Ranged Weapons Expertise, Armor Expertise, Critical Strikes and Explosive Shot
Needed the Armor skill so I could equip a few pieces. Might switch Armor for Dual Wielding the next time I attempt a run

I was lucky to find a pistol with +7 critical shot (one of the few items I actually picked up) and another chaos gem with +2 crit.
I finished with +45 critical shot chance.

-Update-
mods installed: Arithmancy, Geomancy, Ferret Pet, More Maps, Potions Stacksize, Respec Mod
equipment: Equipment from my 2hr Vanq toon plus a low level unique bow & rifle to use before end game pistol, 2 +4 critical chaos gems in helmet, heirloom was a pistol or the same ring.

[Thrybrid]

I'm rather interested by this. I guess this thread could be about discussing techniques and optimization for efficient and short runs in order to farm heirloom... Which sadly is no worthy without it :c
With what character do you think it'll go faster ? According we have like 4x points we can max 4 skills. Do we take that much damage in Easy, cause perhaps it's enough to put all stat points in Defense and have only offensive skills... Or we must have block, what Dest covers well...
We can use a previous stacked health/mana potions stock as well as some haste spell...
Dunno just throwing ideas.

[morphmurph]

Glad to see someone else join in on the discussion (It felt like talking to a mirror )
For me a speed run is about high damage. You want to be able to kill everything in 1 shot. Champions will take 2+ shots but killing them gives you the biggest boost in exp/fame.
Playing on easy only requires enough Defense to wear armor (which should boost damage/crits). The penalty for dying isn't much.

I haven't tried bypassing all monsters and only killing the bosses. Unless you have a super gear to wear when you are level 5-10 it may take a long time to do it (especially Ordrak).
One suggestion would be to kill only champion monsters so at least you will gain some levels to boost skills.

Essentially the skills will be 1 damage skill, 2 passives ( *Weapon Expertise, Critical Strike) and a fourth (Dual Wielding, Armor, a Titan skill, etc)
Giving a toon lots of health/mana potions to start with is the way to go. Gotta spend the gold on something.

--toons--
Right now I think Explosive Shot is the best killing skill because of the weapon bonus and damage radius. Ricochet might be on par because it passes through enemies and gives a higher bonus.
It is a pain to fight the 2 bosses before Ordrak because they can repel projectiles. Haven't tried the other two skill tabs.

My next 2 Alchs will use Ember Lightning and Ember Lance just to see if they work better than Ember Bolt. The Lore tab is useless for speed. Might pick your 4th skill from Battle tab (infuse/armor).

Charon's destroyer used Stampede which I will try with my next Destroyer. I haven't used any of the Titan skills before. I am going to have to experiment with the destroyer skills.

[Thrybrid]

I see. Defense does not protect but let you wear armors with offensive bonuses !
About death, you're not losing levels or fame for respawn in the place you died I suppose ? So perhaps even if it need a long time and some deaths, go "straight" (with some levels of course as you said perhaps 15) to Ordrak could work...?

Destroyer : Stampede should work, better than any other attack which require not moving. Still I don't know about the radius damage, perhaps Slash will be more handy. I believe that Devastate should replace any attack when available, if damage follow.
I really don't know about other classes, the big guy still hold back my attention. I'm gonna test every build possible when I got time so... (Uh perhaps a summon alch.)
About the Alch, he's surely going with Ember lance, perhaps there's still something to do with Ember Shock ..? I'm more in doubt for this but perhaps it could be a HtH solution.
About the Vanq, sure Ricochet then Explosive is the fast way, but same thing, what about Stab, numbers seem quite enough high for the goal. She seem the most efficient, this Explosive Shot is impressing.

I suppose as we gonna fight only champions Adventurer skill is not that useful.
I'll try a speedrun someday but currently living a tight period.

[morphmurph]

When I chose my armor I wanted offensive properties not defensive ones, if I died I died. I used a lot of health potions. I also equipped my pet with a Heall All spell.
Respawning in place after death causes you to lose experience and gold. A straight run to bosses could possibly work. I think when you get to Ordrak and are still below level 20 you might end up dying a lot. Of course your armor could be all about health and blocking so you can survive while still a low level. So many possibilities.

I don't know if you can reach a high enough level for Devastate. By the time I reached level 25 I was fighting Ordrak or just about too. Then again a level 1-2 Devastate might be better than a level 10 Slash or Stampede. Just another variant to try out some day.

I think the opposite would be true about Adventurer. With a high level Adv skill the exp/fate points would be increased so you could potentially squeeze another few levels out of killing only champions. If you have enough respec potions you could respec before boss fights to increase damage then after fight get Adventurer again until the next boss.

A summon Alch is a lot of fun (I was a big fan of the D2 Necromancer, Sacred & Titan Quest really didn't have a summoning class). When you do make one make sure to get skeleton archers and zombie spells. Max everything in the Lore Tab (I didn't use Terror or Ranged Weapon skills).

[Thrybrid]

Devastate l.1/2 wins against Slash/Stampede l.10 ..? I think that's not easy to tell :/ Worth giving it a try.

Yeah only thing now is to test it :d But actually I don't see the point until I got a big fat weapon to heirloom. Oh yeah still, it can be useful to bash champions and pick up uniques/sets but we've not that MF in the beginning :/

Also you use respec potions ? I believe they are part of a mod ; I'm talking here about possibilities inherent of straight Torchlight, I think that mods make the game unbalanced and it is then pointless to debate about the game possibilities (cause all is related to the game's balance...)
Still what we evoked is valid ! :]
But I doubt about Devastate or Adventurer. Test time..!

About DII, don't tell me you found the druid's invocation tree ridiculous, it's just gigantic |D , and while not being as much powerful than its colleague Necromancer, it was still wacky and styled out :]

[bad4brain]

I think vanquisher ist best for speedruns because you don't need to get near the monsters and still deal lots of damage.
I you're playing on easy hardcore just battling the boss monsters probably won't work ^^

[morphmurph]

My 1:35 vanq didn't die. There were times when I was really close to death. Hardcore would most likely need those extra levels/skill points from killing majority of the monsters. But a lot of this really depends on gear and how high a level you need to equip the items. Forgot to add my 2hr Vanq died 5 times. 3 times to Ordrak and even once to those spiked traps in the floor

The respec potion is a mod. The reason I needed it was so I could bump up Ricochet until I could get Explosive Shot. When I go with pure Ricochet my next run through I won't need to respec. Since it is about speed I want to bump up early damage skills until I can start using my final damage skill. This way I can try and achieve a consistent killing speed. But I still think you could accomplish fast times without the potion. Early on you would just increase your passive skills first.

Yeah I completely forgot about the Summoning Druid. Usually played straight werewolf/bear with the occasional elemental variant. I probably did have at least one Summoner Druid.

[Thrybrid]

Okay I see your point.

But to me it's nonsense. If any mod if needed can be used in order to make a better performance, how is it objectively possible to compare with others - or give a simple numbered performance ? Then what about using a mod which give you HasteVI at l.11 available at n.1 with 5mn duration ? What is the limit ?

For me, a "Mod" can be two things :
- a reworked balance of the game, making a new way to play it, with different areas or objects etc. Median & Nezaremontias for DII were "Mods" for the sake of the term.
- then a way to FIX either bugs or PROBLEMS. Actually I'm very surprised about this community because people think it's not altering gameplay with playing for example with this Dest skills duration mod. ( Why mod anyway, why not tweak or cheat ? Cause that would make it contemptuous :< )

Well actually I don't care & it's fine for that people, but it disturbs me a lot when it becomes the only answer wee see through topics (as my sign says) :l
Are we going to play the original game the Runic team worked on to balance the way it is now ?!
( I personally think it's even disrespectful for Runic to talk about cheats on an official forum - It's like saying "Ohh, your game is cool and all, but you know fishing sucks, I prefer drop fish on mobs / yeah it's great but we really should handle two 2H-polearms in each hand cause it's more cool" etc. - They worked the hell out for you to play this game and by cheating you only prove you're never satisfied about balance : your choice is fine but not here..! Though I understand as the game is young Runic don't want to seem a pain in the ass. :] As I understand my point of view is not coooool )

This is my point, I don't know disrespect and all that wasn't any personal attack (I want that clear, actually it's nice to talk about this aspect of the game)...
But about performances which are objective things about numbers, I'm willing to talk the same language ! Which is, Torchlight, official content.
Unofficial content, cheat, should be one's decision and not any recommendation or means to get an objective if shared.

[morphmurph]

I agree with most of what you said (like using 2 2-handed weapons, making spells/skills way over powered). According to TorchLeech the respec mod was created by Runic Games. So it might have been one in one of the game builds but instead they made it a mod (player's choice). The only other mod which could come close to affecting speed runs is the Potions Stacksize mod, 200 per stack. But then again I am not picking up items so even if I didn't have the mod I would still be able to carry the same amount of potions (plus I could just use the pet to carry the extra potions).

To get back on topic and to acknowledge your view on mods. If someone does a speed run with mods that modify skills/spells/enchantments then they should list those so runs can be compared.

(edited 3rd sentence)

[Thrybrid]

I'm glad you took my long post not with anger, maybe I've been a lil harsh !
Well you're right, that's the big problem, when people do use "Mods" they don't tell so, and then we got posts as "Best DPS so far ?" which could be fun and entertaining getting ridiculous and obviously ruined. I mean what, they're not proud of it ? |D

- Still the potions stack is the same. You got free inventory space you shouldn't have, you're making less round-trips, so you're gaining time (in general).
- About the respec potion mod I'm really surprised. This is actually wrong to say it's then player's choice, players choose ingame what will be their principles & gameplay. That's how the Ironman exists ! Those kind of people who challenges themselves are virtuous. :]
So I don't really understand how in the name of player's choice Runic removes the respec option... You got any link of this ? Not that I don't believe you, but I'm really curious about reasons they did so.

[Jarcho]

TorchEd does have a respec potion in it (newest version anyways), but I don't think the respec effect was even part of the game when it was first released, and was brought in with one of the patches. Either way, runic did make the respec potion.

[morphmurph]

When it comes to forums I don't take anything personal because it is a place for differing opinions to be expressed and debated. So thrash away on my following post.

My toons started off with about 50 health/manas potions handed down from their ancestor. As I stated in previous post I didn't pick up items (I would pick up a few when trying to get the potions after champion/boss kills or if I saw a chaos gem). So the extra inventory space gained by the stacksize mod was not needed and I don't see how I could gain any time because of it. My 1:35 toon never went or needed to portal back to town because I would just buy the potions when I came across a merchant on a level. If I didn't have the mod my pet could have stored the excess potions.

Of course if other people actually did speed runs then we would have to have players list mods installed. As of now it only looks like you and I are interested in it. Hopefully others (including bad4brain and charon) join the discussion or post attempts. Otherwise we might have to start using PMs so we don't keep a thread going only two people post to.

Essentially all mods are "player's choice" but because it was released by Runic and not a 3rd party I saw it as a part of the game they weren't sure about to leave or take out of the final release. Instead they release a mod leaving it up to the player on whether to install it or not. This could be seen as an optional add-on because it is from the game's developers (similar to Total Annihilation releasing new free units, how you can buy additional content for games or getting extra items through GameStop promotions). I have no source, gossip or anything else to back up my opinion on why Runic released the respec mod. It is all conjecture nothing more or less.