Webbstre's Modding Challenges

[Arkham]

I wouldn't mind making a custom monster for the Tier 3 guys, providing they could be something fairly simple that wouldn't take a ton of time to model/texture/animate. (The things that occur to me, just to throw a couple ideas out there, are worm-like things that can bite you, or still-moving assorted body parts of the Tier 2 monsters.)

[SixshotOverdrive]

Now that is a challenge

Splitting one monster into two is easy enough, combining them back into one is a bit harder... but probably possible

Edit: Oh wait, you didn't say anything about combining them. That should make things easier.
But even if you used existing monsters, they'd probably need new spawn animations. So it's a pretty large job.

[Webbstre]

Shouldn't be that hard. I'll give you some tips. Check out the children of the damned mod, and look at how specters turn skeletons into zombies.

[SixshotOverdrive]

Will do, thanks Webb.

Alright, first attempt caused an infinite spawning loop.
The spectre's set up to spawn a new monster and kill the one it's casting on.
So tier1 monster turned another tier1 monster into a boss, and spawned 4 tier2 monsters (because the target died).
Tier2 monster turned another tier2 monster into tier1, and spawned 4 tier3 monsters.
original tier1 monster turned new tier1 monster into a boss, and spawned 4 more tier2 monsters.
etc.

[Phanjam]

we will need a larger group than the first one. Then break up into smaller groups to work on different tiers. We need to bring in everyone who can and wants to help.

I'm very willing to help, but all I can really offer is texture work and overall input on mod design/mechanics/etc.

(so Webb, don't you think you should edit the OP to remove my name from there? You could rename the thread to "Webbstre's crazy-ass modding challenges!" or something like that )

I wouldn't mind making a custom monster for the Tier 3 guys, providing they could be something fairly simple that wouldn't take a ton of time to model/texture/animate.

But Ark, wouldn't any custom monster be a lot of work, not so much because of the mesh but more because of having to come up with new animations?

Alright, first attempt caused an infinite spawning loop.

LOL! Did you crash your rig when the screen filled up with monsters ?!

[Webbstre]

Will do, thanks Webb.

Alright, first attempt caused an infinite spawning loop.
The spectre's set up to spawn a new monster and kill the one it's casting on.
So tier1 monster turned another tier1 monster into a boss, and spawned 4 tier2 monsters (because the target died).
Tier2 monster turned another tier2 monster into tier1, and spawned 4 tier3 monsters.
original tier1 monster turned new tier1 monster into a boss, and spawned 4 more tier2 monsters.
etc.

Oh right, I was originally going to suggest that the re-created base monster be a separate monster - identical to the base monster but without the minion spawning. So I guess you need to make a Base Monster and a Base Monster clone for this to work.

[Webbstre]

Ok, so I changed the title of the thread, and updated the second challenge to include info for the Base Monster clones.

As for spawning, you guys don't need to make it that complex. In my mind it went something like this:

Base: One of those warlock like dudes from the crypts
Tier 2: Zombie
Tier 3: Mini skeletons
Boss: Giant Spectre

And just have them appear, not have them with a special spawning animation. You could make an effect like an explosion or a fade in or a flash or something though.

...but you are not restricted by my imagination. I just want to see these kinds of mechanics implemented

[Rusty]

Okay. So Arkham wants the tier 3 monsters. I will take the Boss monster if no one has already claimed that. Who wants the tier 2 and base original and base clone?

[SixshotOverdrive]

LOL! Did you crash your rig when the screen filled up with monsters ?!

Yep. Although, as it turns out, that was more an issue with linking a summon skill as on on-death effect.
For some reason it doesn't work, the sub-units just keep spawning as long as the main ones alive.

Oh right, I was originally going to suggest that the re-created base monster be a separate monster - identical to the base monster but without the minion spawning. So I guess you need to make a Base Monster and a Base Monster clone for this to work.

There's probably a way around that, I just haven't found it yet. I tried desummoning the monsters instead of killing them, but that resulted in an invisible, untargetable monster beating the hell out of me

For now, cloning seems like the easiest option. Here's the Prototype Mod if anybody wants to play around with it.
The minion spawning/converting effects are set up, but I haven't done much with the other skills. (i.e. there's no buffs or death explosions)
I haven't made the spawnclasses either, so you'll need to spawn them through the console. (open it and type 'splitter1')

[Rusty]

For now, cloning seems like the easiest option. Here's the Prototype Mod if anybody wants to play around with it.
The minion spawning/converting effects are set up, but I haven't done much with the other skills. (i.e. there's no buffs or death explosions)
I haven't made the spawnclasses either, so you'll need to spawn them through the console. (open it and type 'splitter1')

Wow, that was really fast Sixshot!

[Arkham]

But Ark, wouldn't any custom monster be a lot of work, not so much because of the mesh but more because of having to come up with new animations?

Not necessarily. To use one of the examples I mentioned, a worm-like creature would probably have a very simple skeleton (just a line of joints from the tail to the jaw), and being a lowly, easily-killed creature with no cast spells would give it essentially a run, idle, attack, and death animation. That's four animations on a (comparatively) simple skeleton, which isn't too bad at all. (And the other example I mentioned, body parts, might have even simpler skeletons.)

Whatever we decide on, though, it seems like the monsters should be thematically consistent. If Tier 2 winds up being skeletons or zombies or something, that would work for either of my examples, but I wouldn't want Tier 3 to be worms or body parts if Tier 2 is going to be something that doesn't seem like worms/body parts would pop out of when they die.

[SixshotOverdrive]

Wow, that was really fast Sixshot!

lol yeah, it ended up being a lot easier that it originally sounded. You can mostly thank Webbstre for that.

Whatever we decide on, though, it seems like the monsters should be thematically consistent. If Tier 2 winds up being skeletons or zombies or something, that would work for either of my examples, but I wouldn't want Tier 3 to be worms or body parts if Tier 2 is going to be something that doesn't seem like worms/body parts would pop out of when they die.

My first thought was the pink/blue horrors from warhammer, don't they have this sort of splitting behaviour?

Anyway, yeah, we should really rough out the monster types we're going to use before anybody starts working on them. I do like the 'exploding into worms' idea. So working backwards, the tier2 monster should either be a tentacled beast or an insectoid with carapace that they could feasibly be hiding in.

[Rusty]

Anyway, yeah, we should really rough out the monster types we're going to use before anybody starts working on them. I do like the 'exploding into worms' idea. So working backwards, the tier2 monster should either be a tentacled beast or an insectoid with carapace that they could feasibly be hiding in.

I think this is an excellent idea. I like the idea of a carapaced insectiod. Going backwards from that should it be a large tree beast? (bugs hide in trees) As for the boss monster, after tree beast I am out of ideas. Anyone else?

[spacepirate]

Going with the premise of
spawnpack of 2-3 base monsters
base -(dies)-> 1-3 tier2
tier2 -(dies)-> 3-5 tier3
base makes tier2 -> base via slow casting spell
base + tier3 -> boss
and maybe tier2 + tier2 -> base if the caster has low health, since we can rig an AI trigger for that

I propose the following for undead:

Base: zombie
Tier2: skeleton
Tier3: wisp
Boss: Lich/Spectre

or if we want to go the tree route

Base: Root golem (regular tree guys)
Tier2: Root golem - 60% scale
Tier3: burrower
Boss: Fungus golem (the one with stuff on his head)

Then the "upgrade" spell for skeleton to zombie shows blood and gore being stacked onto the skeleton, and the "upgrade" for the tree is roots/leaves bursting out of the ground and covering the smaller treant and leaving it larger. It also leaves us with a clear routine for clearing them: either AoE them all equally, so all base models become tier2 and leaving none to "upgrade", or kill off the base and its tier2 spawns before they can get upgraded, then the remaining base ones make themselves bosses.

And if we want to be mean about it, let the boss upgrade tier2 mobs to base mobs as well, and potentially even tier3->tier2 for added player headaches.

[Arkham]

Here's some quick early work I did on a worm, showing the geometry and the skeleton + a "standing" pose. Just a temp texture for now. Yes, he will have no eyes.

Spoiler: show

[Webbstre]

You guys are awesome. I'm gonna have to check through my notes for more modding challenges if you tackle this too quickly

[Rusty]

Going with the premise of
spawnpack of 2-3 base monsters
base -(dies)-> 1-3 tier2
tier2 -(dies)-> 3-5 tier3
base makes tier2 -> base via slow casting spell
base + tier3 -> boss
and maybe tier2 + tier2 -> base if the caster has low health, since we can rig an AI trigger for that

Spoiler: show

I propose the following for undead:

Base: zombie
Tier2: skeleton
Tier3: wisp
Boss: Lich/Spectre

or if we want to go the tree route

Base: Root golem (regular tree guys)
Tier2: Root golem - 60% scale
Tier3: burrower
Boss: Fungus golem (the one with stuff on his head)

Then the "upgrade" spell for skeleton to zombie shows blood and gore being stacked onto the skeleton, and the "upgrade" for the tree is roots/leaves bursting out of the ground and covering the smaller treant and leaving it larger. It also leaves us with a clear routine for clearing them: either AoE them all equally, so all base models become tier2 and leaving none to "upgrade", or kill off the base and its tier2 spawns before they can get upgraded, then the remaining base ones make themselves bosses.

And if we want to be mean about it, let the boss upgrade tier2 mobs to base mobs as well, and potentially even tier3->tier2 for added player headaches.

Nice ideas spacepirate! Really glad to have you join the group. There have been a lot of ideas flying around, but your mechanic ideas are really interesting. Arkham your worm model looks great!! I want to use that, so I think it should still be tier 3. I was trying to figure out a way to make this transformation/splitting could work with current monsters in the game. It makes sense to have larger monsters splitting to smaller. So here is what I came up with on my bus ride into work.

Boss: Larger Souless Cutter (that can be buffed by Battlemaster) - Maybe about 60% larger like spacepirate was saying. This would be one large dude. I could re-texture it easily.
Base: Deathwalker Battlemaster
Tier 2: Dwarven Wight (can be buffed by Battlemaster) - Since these are undead, worms popping out of them makes sense.
Tier 3: Worms

Does this seem like something that could work?

[SixshotOverdrive]

I worked out a way to spawn the minions so I can turn the effect off when they transform.
With that in mind, I dropped the base clone. So now the only ones that truly die are the boss and tier3 monsters.

The current state:
Boss: Giant Spectre (the one with the crown)
Base: Lich
Tier2: Zombie
Tier3: Mini Skeleton (60%)

With the premise of spawning 1 base model
base -(dies)-> 4 tier2
tier2 -(dies)-> 6 tier3
base makes base -> boss via skill
tier2 makes tier2 -> base via skill

It can get a bit hectic if you aren't paying attention to which ones you kill (which I think was the point)
Most of it's just placeholder until we nail down the concept though.
Download

I love the ideas being thrown around btw

[spacepirate]

With the premise of spawning 1 base model
base -(dies)-> 4 tier2
tier2 -(dies)-> 6 tier3
base makes base -> boss via skill
tier2 makes tier2 -> base via skill

For a second, I was wondering how you kept the base monsters from upgrading each other right away. Then I remembered we only start with one.

Also, on the conversion skill, was DESUMMON MONSTER not working? Because I'm curious if its just for summoned pets, since I don't really work on the enemy monster side of things.

[SixshotOverdrive]

Also, on the conversion skill, was DESUMMON MONSTER not working? Because I'm curious if its just for summoned pets, since I don't really work on the enemy monster side of things.

Nope, I did try it but it had no effect (well, because I didn't change the rest of the skill, they turned invisible but still beat me.)
I'm pretty sure it only works when the target is set as pet of the caster. Which is a shame because it would have been a far simpler solution.