Will it support network play?

[FantasyJam]

I heard the game will allow multiple players over a network, but will custom levels be available for the multiplayer experience? I would love it if I could set up a 4-player custom game with Torchlight. I used to play Darkstone and later D&D Heroes and a few other dungeon crawlers with up to 4 players. If Torchlight has this gameplay element, it will be a must-have game for myself and many other people.

If the editor can be used over a network in the Sauerbraten fashion, it will be godly.

[Webbstre]

The Single Player game, with or without the mods, won't have ANY multiplayer.

The MMO will be online on the official servers, and as far as we know won't have any kind of mods, as it would be hard to implement.

[indelible]

The Single Player game, with or without the mods, won't have ANY multiplayer.

The MMO will be online on the official servers, and as far as we know won't have any kind of mods, as it would be hard to implement.

Mods aren't that hard to implement. It all depends how they would implement them. There are various methods out there for doing it, one of which uses LUA (which really isn't hard to be honest). Tedious, possibly. Certainly not hard. Most MMOs that don't allow modifications are doing so (a) because it's an additional security risk that they don't wish to police and (b) they don't think the game needs it. Looking at TLMMO, I don't see why it would need mods (beyond changes to art style) but then again I don't know much about the game yet.

[Webbstre]

I just mean that any mods for an MMO could mess up balance pretty badly. If they had a mod-only character mode/server that is separate from the regular MMO player that let you host mods and play with friends, I would be all for it.

[Mystique]

Never say never with things like this for the single player game. Oblivion comes to mind, that wasn't supported for LAN play however mods out their have made it possible to play online. Won't really know if its not possible yet until either a dev says its really not no matter what we try, or someone tries it when its released.

Unless Oblivion had support down at the beginning for mods to do LAN play and they didn't wanna mess with it.

[Rob]

Never say never with things like this for the single player game. Oblivion comes to mind, that wasn't supported for LAN play however mods out their have made it possible to play online. Won't really know if its not possible yet until either a dev says its really not no matter what we try, or someone tries it when its released.

Unless Oblivion had support down at the beginning for mods to do LAN play and they didn't wanna mess with it.

Yup, it won't be impossible for a 3rd party to develop some form of network play for the single player. Considering the MMO will be built on the single player tech, there's always the possibility of Runic releasing a LAN patch after the MMO networking technology has been made.

[indelible]

Yup, it won't be impossible for a 3rd party to develop some form of network play for the single player. Considering the MMO will be built on the single player tech, there's always the possibility of Runic releasing a LAN patch after the MMO networking technology has been made.

If they do anything like this, they'll release a patch to allow you to host and play on servers over the net, as that is more related to the technology involved with the MMO. LAN is slightly different.

[Webbstre]

I won't deny that someone could do something like Oblivion and create a 2-player mode of some sort, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it any time soon.

It would be cool however if some company wanted to make a 3rd party expansion with LAN play or if someone paid Runic to make such an expansion. Then they would probably work on it.

Anyone got a couple million bucks lying around?

[indelible]

I won't deny that someone could do something like Oblivion and create a 2-player mode of some sort, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it any time soon.

It would be cool however if some company wanted to make a 3rd party expansion with LAN play or if someone paid Runic to make such an expansion. Then they would probably work on it.

Anyone got a couple million bucks lying around?

If the SP sells well and the player base calls for it, there is no reason why they wouldn't consider patching it in I guess. However, what you have to consider is that it's getting dangerously close to the MMOs territory, which will be F2P anyhow... so... I think they'll probably sit there and think, "erm... what's the point?" Rightfully so tbh.

[ombra]

I won't deny that someone could do something like Oblivion and create a 2-player mode of some sort, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it any time soon.

It would be cool however if some company wanted to make a 3rd party expansion with LAN play or if someone paid Runic to make such an expansion. Then they would probably work on it.

Anyone got a couple million bucks lying around?

... However, what you have to consider is that it's getting dangerously close to the MMOs territory, which will be F2P anyhow... so... I think they'll probably sit there and think, "erm... what's the point?" Rightfully so tbh.

@ text in red color

Thats the reason why LAN-Play makes no real sense i think, considering the microtransaction payment model they choose...

[indelible]

I won't deny that someone could do something like Oblivion and create a 2-player mode of some sort, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it any time soon.

It would be cool however if some company wanted to make a 3rd party expansion with LAN play or if someone paid Runic to make such an expansion. Then they would probably work on it.

Anyone got a couple million bucks lying around?

... However, what you have to consider is that it's getting dangerously close to the MMOs territory, which will be F2P anyhow... so... I think they'll probably sit there and think, "erm... what's the point?" Rightfully so tbh.

@ text in red color

Thats the reason why LAN-Play makes no real sense i think, considering the microtransaction payment model they choose...

Ah but LAN play and online play allow for two very different things. For example, if you want to run a LAN event that sees hundreds of people gather to play various games - including Torchlight - then you'd have issues with Internet bandwidth that may only allow for a handful of PCs to play over the net.

So, the MMO solves the problem of playing with friends but it won't allow for large scale events to be held around Torchlight. That said however, it doesn't come across that Torchlight is the sort of game that would need it. I mean, it doesn't sound like it is going to have anything even vaguely competetive enough to warrant a position at some of the larger LAN parties.

I guess what we have to ask our selves is - does Torchlight NEED LAN or is it simply a want? I think the answer to that question will come when we see how the game will play but at the moment, I'm very much siding on the idea that it isn't something the game will need and will merely be something of an added bonus for the few. So, is it worth developing into the game? Probably not.

[Scavenger]

I guess what we have to ask our selves is - does Torchlight NEED LAN or is it simply a want? I think the answer to that question will come when we see how the game will play but at the moment, I'm very much siding on the idea that it isn't something the game will need and will merely be something of an added bonus for the few. So, is it worth developing into the game? Probably not.

I think, this is the main question here. Is LAN really necessary? Well, to me it is. I'm not that much of a LAN Player myself, but not every LAN party has access to the web. Often enough, LAN parties are held in small townhalls or even school gyms. No internet there. An since SC2 and D3 will likely end up without any LAN, TL could jump right in and fill that void. LAN would certainly add to the success of Torchlight.
No LAN would even limit the things you could to with the Preditor. Like a 4 player map with mobs so strong, you need at least that amount of players. You could even create maps like capture the flag and stuff. From Mythos days we know, there are players, who really enjoy PVP.
Sure thing, the mob-balancing for LAN will be a pain in the ass and Runic is going to avoid this for inital release, but maybe later they could add LAN.

On a sidenote: Without LAN, how will muling work? Is a shared stash confirmed?

To be honest, I don't think TLSP will hurt TLMMO at all. Runic plans a development time from 18 to 24 month. Remembering the glorious Mythos days, we could say at least two years. (no offence Runic, but you know..) The MMO won't be just Multiplayer-Torchlight. I don't even expect the MMO to be called Torchlight. Torchlight might be a town in the MMO, but just one town in one zone. (like Stonehill in Mythos)
So Torchlight SP is just an appetizer, a preview of things to come. In the MMO, you may have crafting, guild wars, housing, character customisation and some cool stuff, we and they haven't thought of. All of them are missing in the SP. LAN will be cool for people, who want to play with their roommates, kids or girlfriend. But it won't stop people from playing the MMO.

I am going that far to say, that whatever Runic puts into the SP version of the game (and it might be that super awesome), can't compete with the fact, that the MMO will be free. People who never even heard of Mythos or TLSP will try the game, because it's free and is something different from the usual WOW-Clones.

[Rob]

I won't deny that someone could do something like Oblivion and create a 2-player mode of some sort, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it any time soon.

It would be cool however if some company wanted to make a 3rd party expansion with LAN play or if someone paid Runic to make such an expansion. Then they would probably work on it.

Anyone got a couple million bucks lying around?

If the SP sells well and the player base calls for it, there is no reason why they wouldn't consider patching it in I guess. However, what you have to consider is that it's getting dangerously close to the MMOs territory, which will be F2P anyhow... so... I think they'll probably sit there and think, "erm... what's the point?" Rightfully so tbh.

I agree network support for the SP version is a bit redundant initially, but the consideration for such a patch/mod would be driven from user-made content. RG or otherwise, if there's popular mods I'm sure there will be a lot of interest for co-op play.

[FantasyJam]

I would like to have a future-proof multiplayer game rather than a game that relies on an official server. I heard we'd be able to play with our friends, but if there's no even a 2-player design, how is that possible?

I'm not complaining, the game looks gorgeous. I just don't care as much for it if it's not 2-player or better.

[kaylon]

I would like to have a future-proof multiplayer game rather than a game that relies on an official server. I heard we'd be able to play with our friends, but if there's no even a 2-player design, how is that possible?

I'm not complaining, the game looks gorgeous. I just don't care as much for it if it's not 2-player or better.

Well...within a few months of the single player game it will be a MMO...then you can play with your friends, or anyone else

I would like to see a co-op mode in the initial release but I'm not sure if that will happen. What I see happening is TL being single player for a short while, then a patch to add some form of client server co-op support for small groups then a full blown upgrade to the MMO. All of this I think will be server based with no client to client LAN etc. Makes little business sense to allow LAN when an MMO is just around he corner, I'd certainly triage that out of my development schedule if I was involved.

K

[Webbstre]

There won‘t be any patch or upgrade to turn it into an MMO, the MMO will be a completely separate game. I would source you the quote but since I am writing from my phone it is a bit difficult.

I am sure someone can link to the quote for you.

*Summons an RGF minion to provide a link*

[DanielZKlein]

I don't really see the problem with allowing multiplayer on the boxed version of the game.

First of all, no one knows when the MMO version will be out. For all we know it might be years after the boxed version of the game. Now this may just be me, but I really dislike playing games all by my lonesome. I have a good friend I play most games with, and if I won't be able to play Torchlight with him at all until the MMO comes around, I'll be a sad panda.

Second, from the point of view of someone making a buy decision it's a simple question of value for money. Having multiplayer means more value.

Next, there's the argument that if the boxed version has multiplayer, there's no need for the MMO anymore. That's nonsense, of course. The two concepts are really quite different. I see people make this mistake a lot, that thinking if you have any content, then that's good enough. "There's going to be hundreds of hours of mods we could be playing, why would we be playing the MMO instead?" The simple answer is that these mods will be all over the place in quality and difficulty, whereas the MMO will represent one large, coherent chunk of content, (hopefully) balanced to represent one difficulty curve, something where it makes sense to compare your progress to that of your friends', a place where you'll have a few characters that you grow attached to, etc. It's one long epic movie in the cinema vs the patchwork madness of watching three hours worth of youtube clips.

Finally, if the boxed version has one mission, one purpose, it is that of whetting people's appetite for the MMO. People who are potentially interested in playing the MMO are fans of multiplayer games. I'm not sure how many of those you can get hyped up for the MMO by giving them a singleplayer game.

[Jaknet]

The main thing as Runic have said in the past (don't have the link to hand..sorry) is that any addition in the way of networking will delay the game by quite a while as it loads to just "throw in"

Personally I'm happy to have the SP NOW!! and maybe have a form of network come along later, but then I play solo most of the time so I guess I'm not the best person to comment...

[Omnifas]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21&p=218&hilit=network#p218

Travis basically answering why its too late now.

[Webbstre]

I still think Alpha or beta testing won't be that long away. If it took half a year before anyone got to test the game I would be surprised, especially since they are already doing the back-end networking technology preparations. I forget where that was said, but it was somewhere.