[WIP] Jedi Class (and lightsabers!)

[hakkenshi]

An obvious one would be the lightsaber throw... it's not very flashy, but a missile doing 100% weapon damage wouldn't be all that bad as a skill! If you could give it Slash's particle effect, but traveling away from the character (maybe rotating upon itself, too?), you'd get something pretty close to the look a thrown 'saber.

There are other possibilities depending on what you intend for the class: a missile reflecting ability (since Jedi constantly deflect blaster fire) that could be a short buff drastically increasing missile reflecting percentage and damage, a charge skill (kinda boring, but very martial)...

You could also play off Bastila's Battle Meditation in the Martial tree - it's fitting the theme, at least. Technically, she uses the Force to enhance her allies' combat capabilities while reducing her enemies'. Normally, the Jedi requires at least a bit of concentration to make it work, so maybe make it an AoE buff/debuff that stacks for as long as you can channel it, but with a fixed duration that lasts for a while after you stop channeling? It's not a very offensive skill, but it could remove armour, lower damage and speed, and such things.

I'd imagine a pulse stacking debuffs every half-second could be pretty effective.

[HitmanJenkins]

haha! looks great so far, love the work done so far with the model as well

[SpuneDagr]

An obvious one would be the lightsaber throw... it's not very flashy, but a missile doing 100% weapon damage wouldn't be all that bad as a skill! If you could give it Slash's particle effect, but traveling away from the character (maybe rotating upon itself, too?), you'd get something pretty close to the look a thrown 'saber.

I considered this, but discarded the idea 'cause it seemed too difficult. If I break it into manageable pieces, though, it's probably doable. Let's see, we'd start with a swing animation, then turn the character's weapon invisible (I think I saw a thread about this somewhere), then create the projectile particle effect which moves to the enemy and then back to the player, play a 'catch' animation, and restore the weapon. Okay, yeah, it STILL sounds hard, but oh so cool. Unfortunate drawback of having to pick one color for the effect - pretty sure there's no way to change it based on the color of the weapon you currently have.

There are other possibilities depending on what you intend for the class: a missile reflecting ability (since Jedi constantly deflect blaster fire) that could be a short buff drastically increasing missile reflecting percentage and damage, a charge skill (kinda boring, but very martial)...

This is DEFINITELY in. I just didn't list it 'cause I designed it as a passive ability. Do you know if there's a way to get a sound to play when damage is reflected?

You could also play off Bastila's Battle Meditation in the Martial tree - it's fitting the theme, at least. Technically, she uses the Force to enhance her allies' combat capabilities while reducing her enemies'. Normally, the Jedi requires at least a bit of concentration to make it work, so maybe make it an AoE buff/debuff that stacks for as long as you can channel it, but with a fixed duration that lasts for a while after you stop channeling? It's not a very offensive skill, but it could remove armour, lower damage and speed, and such things. I'd imagine a pulse stacking debuffs every half-second could be pretty effective.

This is the basic idea of the 'Combat Trance' power. Click-activated temporary buff to... something. Probably movement speed and attack rate, maybe damage.

[hakkenshi]

The one part about the Throw I can't fathom how to make would be the "catch". Unless you're able to play the swing animation backward, the only way I can think of is using a casting animation on event end. Those usually have a sort of handwaving motion that could do the job, but... I dunno.

As for the particle itself, I think the colour problem is the worst dilemma, but you could always just make it white. It's not very exciting, mind you...

For the Battle Meditation, maybe it could be the debuff instead? It's not such a stretch in terms of lore, anyway.

The reflection passive is probably the best way to go, but if you're keeping all the shared passives, I find that adding more makes skill choices a little less exciting. I have an idea that you may or may not like, but bear in mind it's just a suggestion:

Make some of the abilities auras instead, a triggered ability that lasts until canceled, and call them after the various lightsaber combat stances. Some of the stances are pretty boring and wouldn't work as abilities, but Ataru, Shien and Juyo could work as auras or triggered abilities like Combat Trance.

It's just a thought - I'm not sure it's all that effective, but it is in keeping with the Jedi theme, and they're not technically Force powers, meaning they fit the Martial theme as well.

[SpuneDagr]

I think playing the weapon swing animation again would be satisfactory as a 'catch.' Like he's grabbing it really quick out of the air.

Making it white is probably the only option. All the blade 'cores' are already white anyway. It's not a huge deal.

I'm saving debuffs for the Dark Side tree.

Most of the shared passives are here. The only exceptions will be Melee Mastery and Block & Parry. I don't have a problem replacing those two with slightly more thematically appropriate options (Lightsaber Mastery and Deflection).

Lightsaber Combat Stances could take this all in a whole new direction. It's actually quite an exciting idea. How might you enumerate each stance's bonuses?
Ataru - speed bonus
Shien - defense bonus/damage reflection
Juyo - damage bonus?

[hakkenshi]

I think playing the weapon swing animation again would be satisfactory as a 'catch.' Like he's grabbing it really quick out of the air.

Jeez, no kidding... why was I trying to make this more complicated than it is?

Making it white is probably the only option. All the blade 'cores' are already white anyway. It's not a huge deal.

Plus when it hits enemies you're gonna get red splashing all over the place, anyway.

I'm saving debuffs for the Dark Side tree.

Yeah, that makes sense. I can definitely see Light Side being more about stunning and driving opponents back rather than sapping their strength and draining their life.

Lightsaber Combat Stances could take this all in a whole new direction. It's actually quite an exciting idea. How might you enumerate each stance's bonuses?
Ataru - speed bonus
Shien - defense bonus/damage reflection
Juyo - damage bonus?

Sure, that makes perfect sense. I think you could even make it:
Ataru - attack, casting and movement speed bonus.
Shien - damage reflection and missile reflection (since defense lowers enemy damage rather than actually reflecting it), OR even a block bonus...
Juyo - damage bonus, but maybe even armour reduction on hit...

Depending on how you tweak the numbers, you can give each stance quite a bit of variation from the others. I suppose that if you wanted to, you could even make the bonuses quite big by offsetting them with small penalties - but I'm not sure anyone really likes taking on penalties.

[SpuneDagr]

Depending on how you tweak the numbers, you can give each stance quite a bit of variation from the others. I suppose that if you wanted to, you could even make the bonuses quite big by offsetting them with small penalties - but I'm not sure anyone really likes taking on penalties.

Heck, why not go nuts with it?
Give each stance a substantial bonus, and some kind of penalty, and no mana cost. Make them all available from the beginning, with one free rank in each. Having an active stance at all times would be the norm.

That would set this class tremendously apart from the Destroyer (which is what most of my current attack skills are based on).

[hakkenshi]

Oooo, interesting! I like the ability for everyone to start off with a point in each stance. That's VERY different from all the existing classes, and it makes sense.

Man, this is making me wonder if it's possible to add skills that would require a stance - I saw a Required Unit Theme field or something in the skills editor, but I wonder if that would work... If the field makes it so that the stance unit theme is required for another skill to be activated, you could really go nuts with it.

[SpuneDagr]

That may be one step too complex. Requiring a particular stance for a combat skill feels kind of arbitrary in an action game.

"ACK! Why can't I use my skill? RIGHTCLICK RIGHTCLICK RIGHTCLICK RIGHTCLICK WORK DAMN YOU AAARRRRGH!" and now you're dead.

I'm really getting used to the Stances idea in general, though. I'm totally going to do it.

[hakkenshi]

Hmm, true enough. I guess it was the WoW player in me surfacing again. :p

[Jupiah]

I got an idea for a skill, not sure how good it would work though. Remember how at the beginning of Episode 1, Qui-gon tried to cut through a blast door by stabbing his lightsaber deep into the metal and basically melting it? You could make that a skill. It'd be really close range and would take a few seconds to finish, during which time you couldn't attack (cause your lightsaber is stuck inside the enemy), but it would do massive damage and give a huge armor reduction debuff. It'd be near suicidal to use when surrounded by lots of mobs cause it leaves you vulnerable until the attack finishes but highly effective against a single, really tough monster.

Or how about a skill where you overload your lightsaber's battery, doubling the size and reach of the plasma blade and increasing damage for a short while, but having a long (2-5 minutes) cooldown before you can use it again to give the battery time to recharge? Is that even possible?

[SpuneDagr]

Funny enough, I was thinking about a skill that was a combination of both of those! Inspired by Qui-Gon's door melting, I thought there could be a buff that supercharged your lightsaber, dealing lots of extra fire damage. The blade would be longer and brighter, etc. (pretty sure I could do such a particle effect).

I'm going to have to go back to the drawing board for this whole skill tree.

[hakkenshi]

Nice idea! It could be a channeled skill where the attack animation is held in mid-swing while you hold down the button, dealing continuous, significant damage to one target.

Would fire damage be better than magical damage, though? Some monsters have a lot of fire resist, and it seems odd they'd resist a lightsaber in the guts...

[SpuneDagr]

I've decided to omit Lightsaber Throw for the time being. It just doesn't fit in with the rest of the skill tree - Leap Attack has a similar function and makes more sense.

Also, I think I'll get rid of the Critical Hits mastery passive and include its effects in one of the Stances.

This is merely an aesthetic choice, but I figured I may as well pose the question. How should I lay out the lightsaber skills in the skill tree? The first sketch spreads them out, in effect, aligning every skill with one of the three "Stances." The second sketch lines them all up in the center, the way most class skills are presented in the default trees.

[SpuneDagr]

This Stances idea has me positively giddy. I made icons for them this afternoon.

[hakkenshi]

Very, very nice. I like how you've got the colours for Jedi Guardian, Jedi Sentinel and Sith.

[Hellmouth]

Definitely put them spread out, I find it more aesthetic.

[Irbis]

This Stances idea has me positively giddy. I made icons for them this afternoon.

sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

[HitmanJenkins]

Oooo, interesting! I like the ability for everyone to start off with a point in each stance. That's VERY different from all the existing classes, and it makes sense.

Man, this is making me wonder if it's possible to add skills that would require a stance - I saw a Required Unit Theme field or something in the skills editor, but I wonder if that would work... If the field makes it so that the stance unit theme is required for another skill to be activated, you could really go nuts with it.

it works well in WoW with the Warrior class, but in a game as intense as Torchlight i don't think it would be a good idea

and i love the icons for the battle stances!

[SpuneDagr]

Progress Report

Managed to work on this some more last night. Started on the Stance skills, and it looks like they're going to be even easier to create than I thought. Duplicating the "only one aura at a time" limitation is simple: Each aura activates an effect when triggered that cancels other auras, by name. Copy, paste, change the names, done.

Let's try to nail down the bonuses (and penalties) of each Stance. Using the information in Wookiepedia I have this:


Shien Form is focused on defense (and counterattacks). This form is used to deflect blaster fire back to the shooter. Perfect for facing many projectile-firing opponents (like an army of droids). It's much weaker when facing a single opponent.
Obviously, this skill will grant defensive bonuses. It could give +Defense, +Block, AND Damage Reflection. Penalty could be lower Damage. The idea being that a hoard of minions can't take a hit anyway, so less damage against them wouldn't be a big deal, but against a single strong opponent, the lower damage output becomes significant.


Ataru Form concentrates on acrobatics and movement. (Yoda is a master.) Fast-paced and effective against a single opponent, but weaker in prolonged combat (it's tiring) or confined spaces (no room).
Sounds like it should definitely give a bonus to Movement Speed, and probably Attack Speed as well. Coming up with a penalty for this could be difficult. There could be some kind of cooldown system that decreases your effectiveness over time, but I don't like that 'cause this stance would be so useful for traveling, and really, does combat ever truly end in Torchlight?


Juyo Form is quite vicious, and requires significant internal focus. Its use can be dangerous because it draws on powerful emotion - a gateway to the Dark Side. This technique concentrates on pure offense, to the exclusion of almost everything else.
Damage bonus, of course, and some kind of extra effect on your attacks, like Armor Damage, would be cool. Penalty to Defense and maybe Movement Speed. Possibly reduced effectiveness of non-lightsaber skills.

I'd like to come up with features more interesting for each than simply: +Something, -Something else. Extra effects and interesting choices are what will make these really special.