Runic On SOPA

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Runic On SOPA

Postby Irony » Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:37 pm

Not sure if this was brought up at all, but I'm curious;
Does Runic as a company hold any official opinion for or against SOPA?
(Referring to the legislation, not soup)
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Zidders » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:51 pm

Beat me to it. I'll admit to being hesitant about asking this, but yeah, kinda would like to know. Especially since Perfect World is a member of the ESA http://www.theesa.com/about/members.asp#perfectworld

Ok, maybe I was being a bit unfair. Runic, all i'm asking is that you look into SOPA and if you end up being against it (which I dearly hope you are) that you ask Perfect World to look into it, too. That's all.
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby BrianW » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:31 pm

As far as I know, we have no official position on it one way or another. That said, I don't know anyone here who thinks it's a good idea. I certainly am opposed. If anything, our position would probably be that corporations shouldn't take positions on political issues. :D
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Irony » Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:53 pm

BrianW wrote:...If anything, our position would probably be that corporations shouldn't take positions on political issues. :D



I'm ok with that answer. Thanks for the reply!
(I'm not taking that as Runic's Position lol)
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Zidders » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:03 pm

While I respect that statement, the problem with that is the bill exists in part because of corporations. The bill exists because of organizations like the MPAA and the ESA that represent corporations and businesses. The reason the bill exists is because a bunch of corporations and businesses asked the government to do something about all the piracy going on. It's totally in their right to, but they then should at least be responsible enough about it to make sure that a bill meant to protect their rights doesn't infringe on anyone elses rights.

Brian, I don't want to be unfair to you folks. I really don't. If I'm being unfair by thinking Runic should makes some sort of stand, i'm more than willing to listen. I know it's important to protect intellectual property, but the bill the way it's written now is just broken. Is it justifiable to ask Runic to take an official stance? Do I have any right to? Am I complaining about powerlessness in the face of corporatism while at the same time expecting a corporation to speak for me?

I wish I were smarter about this stuff. I 'think' I know the right thing to do, but the last thing I want to do is stop supporting Runic. I just feel..if i'm not willing to take a stand and stop supporting Runic if that's what it takes, then all my talk about rights and freedoms is made meaningless due to my being a fanboy. Is it necessary. tho? Am I (as usual) making a mountain out of a molehill?

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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Paws » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:20 pm

One, the ESA may represent a bunch of people, but that doesn't mean everyone in it shares EVERY view the ESA holds, in the same way you could (for example) be a republican but not agree with, I dunno, something conservative. Banning gay marriage, overturning roe v wade, whatever, pick a hot topic.

Two, the ESA supports the /merit/ of the bill, and is working to change the language to be more suitable to both blocking bad sites without screwing the good ones. They DON'T like the bill as-is, and I'm damn tired of journalists reporting they do.

It's a deeply political, deeply divisive bill that's going to cause innumerable headaches for the industry on both sides, fans and workers, There is no right answer to support or oppose the bill, and forcing people to take a stance sucks.

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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Zidders » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:27 pm

:/
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Dakiaris » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:14 pm

I said something on Riots website and they seemed to feel very strongly about it... Then the tread had to get removed due to horrid community trolls derailing it... They since have posted an announcement to bring it to everyones attention.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/help-us-stop-sopa


Though they are not runic I would also like to know runics stance on it since most of the companies I seem to wanna support are actually starting to show a vocal opinion of the SOPA.
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Perictione » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:43 pm

First, I'm not a lawyer, but a significant portion of my career required a capacity to interact intelligently with lawyers from a variety of countries and understand the nuances of law here, there and everywhere. What follows, therefore, reflects my own views and does not constitute legal advice in any form. That said, I'd like to dive right into the thread and offer a few comments.

In it's current form, the act clearly violates the First Amendment of America's Constitution, for several reasons: The notice-and-termination procedure of Section 103(a) runs directly in contradiction of the doctrine of "prior restraint" as it delegates extralegal authority to a private party, thereby granting the power to suppress speech without prior notice or a judicial hearing.

Think about this for a moment, if you will - this provision gives any complainant party the ability to prevent all online advertisers and credit card processors from doing any business whatsoever with any website merely by filing a unilateral notice accusing the site of being “dedicated to theft of U.S. intellectual property”... even if no court has actually found any infringement has occurred. We're not necessarily talking about another MP3 or potential Wikileaks scandal, friends and neighbors. Nope, what we're talking about is anyone taking any sort of dislike to anything anyone else is doing on the WWW and, empowered thus by the law, having the right to enforce an immediate shutdown. What redress is there covering nuisance filings? None... other than the usual recourse to a civil court which, depending on your ability to file a speedy motion, could result in a some serious delays in business.

The immunity provisions currently contained within the bill create an overwhelming incentive for advertisers and payment processors to comply with such a request immediately upon receipt. Time and time again, the American Supreme Court has made clear that “only a judicial determination in an adversary proceeding ensures the necessary sensitivity to freedom of expression [and] only a procedure requiring a judicial determination suffices to impose a valid final restraint.” (Freedman v. Maryland, 1965). SOPA does away with this constraint.

But the craziness doesn't end there: Section 103(a) is also in violation of the constitution as it contains a sweeping definition of what constitutes a website “dedicated to theft of U.S. property.” As it stands now, a site would qualify under the statutory definition if it “enables or facilitates” infringement by a third party, whether or not such activity meets the requirements for secondary liability under existing legal conventions. This deliberate departure from established concepts of copyright law deprives parties of adequate guidelines to interpret the Section 103 definition, thus it's likely they'll err on the side of caution - afterall, who wants to risk the potential nuisance of expensive liabilities?

Although statutory ambiguities may be tolerable in some situations, it's been established by the Supreme Court the First Amendment specifically demands special precision in regulations of protected expression. And then along comes SOPA, providing a complaining party with the ability to file a notice that's simply an allegation that it is harmed by the activities occurring on the site "or a portion thereof" and - bang - the whole site could be shut down. In other words, it's possible an entire website (containing tens of thousands of pages) could be targeted if only a single page were accused of infringement. As strange and unlikely as this may seem, an organization such as Runic would have to pay particular attention to its on-line social spaces (such as these forums) if only to avoid potential strategic lawsuits that will likely arise as an unintended consequence of SOPA.

Frankly, The more I think about SOPA, the more concerned I become - though proponents of this legislation continue to insist the purpose of this bill is to reduce the incidence of copyright infringement, on-line piracy, and illegal advertising, I can't quite get beyond the feeling that what SOPA truly represents is another effort to control the message through legal and extralegal means. If this legislation passes in its current form, I think the WWW will continue to thrive, but it certainly will be an entirely different sort of social space.

(Leaving this thread with this unhappy thought: The nightclubs in Berlin, Germany, 1936, were very popular, I understand... :( )


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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby JediFreeman » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:33 am

Hey everyone, we just wanted to give you something a bit more definitive for an answer.

The question has been asked regarding our company's official position on the current SOPA/PIPA debate in Congress. It is clear that the scope of the proposed legislation would give unnecessarily broad power to large corporations while reducing the rights of individual citizens -- and it won't even stop software piracy (http://boingboing.net/2012/01/10/lockdown.html).

We at Runic Games oppose the SOPA/PIPA legislation and we encourage you to do the same.

Call your representatives (http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml) and let them know what you think. Also, check out http://www.americancensorship.org, and join the community at http://www.reddit.com/r/sopa to fight this legislation. We can still make a difference.

Thank you,

Runic Games

PS: SOPA (soup, not the legislation) is delicious.
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Irony » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:02 am

We have an official confirmation from runic:

They do, indeed, believe soup is delicious! Well, I got my answer.
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Trappski » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:10 am

This was pretty much the answer i expected from an awesome company.
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Ingmartin » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:34 am

Opposition to SOPA is the right and just thing to do. It gives too much power to companies, and NOW I have just one more reason to LOVE Runic Games and their products.

The Internet is a powerful tool of liberty, and by giving control to companies (who may have agendas that go beyond anti-piracy) they are taking away power from the users.

And I also like soup.

My favorite is curried chicken pumpkin.
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby BrianW » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:51 am

Ingmartin wrote:And I also like soup.

My favorite is curried chicken pumpkin.



Tomato soup is awesome. :)
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Omnifas » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:53 am

Sopa es muy delicioso.
S.O.P.A es muy malo.

Sorry if I butchered those sentences, I learned Italiano in High School :).

All soups are awesome!!!
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Irony » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:55 am

Omnifas wrote:Sopa es muy delicioso.
S.O.P.A es muy malo.

Sorry if I butchered those sentences, I learned Italiano in High School :).

All soups are awesome!!!


Not at all, you did just fine! Good job :D

EDIT: This is officially a thread about soup.
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Zidders » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:13 pm

Thank you, Runic. Thank you so much.
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby justinian » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:13 pm

For those of you who are interested in this and related topics, a great organization to follow and support is the Electronic Frontier Foundation (http://eff.org). They're a non-profit legal activism group dedicated to defending your rights online, and your rights regarding technology. Not only do they stand up and fight bills like SOPA and PIPA, but they also help provide legal defense to people who are hit by lawsuits from unfair laws like these when they pass. They do great work and deserve all the support they can get.

And oh hey, I just happened to wear my EFF t-shirt on the day we announced that we oppose SOPA. :)
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby hawkn » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:34 pm

I'm glad you oppose it. Because I know where you work. ;)
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Re: Runic On SOPA

Postby Zidders » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:04 pm

hawkn wrote:I'm glad you oppose it. Because I know where you work. ;)


omg dude lol
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