When will JRPGs get their own reawakening?

[GigaDager]

ARPGs have been healthy. After years of lackluster ARPGs, subpar games, and general absence, they've come back strong and competent. They're getting lines of brand new games to usher in the revival of a great genre that's been quietly lurking in the shadows for years, but now hype over this genre, whether it's over Diablo 3, Torchlight 2, Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, and so on, has been explosive.

I have to wonder when that day will come for JRPGs, if it hasn't already. With the Japanese market struggling and Japanese games not being able to stand up to the might of Western games, they'll been slowly dwindling. I miss the days of playing Final Fantasy 6, 8, 9, and 10 and Tales of the Abyss. The Persona series added a much-needed passtime, and Eternal Sonata, when it first hit the consoles early on, was a beautiful work of art. But lately, we see so few of these. Sure, a few new tales games are coming out, but it's not enough to fill in the giant void where story-driven JRPGs used to be. Final Fantasy 13 fails to live up to today's expectations, and 13-2 was an abomination with its terrible writing (Though I have to wonder if the other FF's had terrible writing; I was just too young to realize it then).

JRPGs have always been interesting to me in that they're able to including dynamic, changing, interesting gameplay depending on the game while introducing fun characters and an intriguing plotline. But lately, it's seems like we're seeing fewer and fewer of these games.

[gold163]

JRPGs have been going strong for the past generation, actually. Just that nobody's been paying attention.

Tri-Ace puts out good stuff, the Tales series is actually probably stronger than ever, there is still a budding niche for lesser-known JRPGs, and suddenly Falcom is really popular in the west when a couple of years ago most people probably had never heard of Ys. People convinced Nintendo to localize two/three relatively high-profile Japanese-exclusives on the Wii. There has been a slew of remakes, re-releases, and sequels across various platforms, most notably on the PSP and DS. They're making a Shin Megami Tensei IV ffs.

Actually, I'd say that along with the first-person shooter, the JRPG has probably been the most well-worn genre this generation. You are not seeing fewer of these games. On the contrary; you should be seeing more of these games than ever.

Somebody else like Tekkamansoul could probably speak more to this than I could (and possibly disagree), but from my observations JRPGs have never been bigger.

[GigaDager]

Ah, right, I neglected the DS and PSP. I guess it's because I've had such fond memories playing in front of my TV and watching the damn long cutscenes that I forgot about them.

My latest JRPG adventure on the DS has been Radiant Historia. While I haven't finished it, it's been refreshing.

I also forgot about the Wii, which has been getting a lot of JRPGs. Xenoblades, anybody?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the influx of new shooters and triple-A titles dominating gamer vision, it's hard to see past it and the JRPGs that may be waiting around the corner. I remember seeing Tales of Graces being released on the PS3 and Xbox360, and there was hardly an hype or advertisement for it. Or perhaps I'm the one who stopped paying attention, not publishers and developers.

[gold163]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the influx of new shooters and triple-A titles dominating gamer vision, it's hard to see past it and the JRPGs that may be waiting around the corner. I remember seeing Tales of Graces being released on the PS3 and Xbox360, and there was hardly an hype or advertisement for it. Or perhaps I'm the one who stopped paying attention, not publishers and developers.

I bolded the part that I think is the most important -- in my opinion, this is EXACTLY what's happening. The industry makes a lot of money these days, and JRPGs aren't exactly for a mainstream demographic here in the west. To an outside observer it may have looked like Tales of Graces F was released on the PS3 to little fanfare, but as far as I'm concerned this was not the case. There were massive page-long ads for the game's localized release on various well-known anime sites and lesser-known gaming news media blogs such as Gematsu; I can attest to that. There was also a bit of Facebook marketing; in fact I think the entire reason why the game got a localized release in the first place was because fans made a lot of noise and sent a lot of requests for more Tales in the west. Otherwise the last Tales release you probably would have seen in the west would have been a PSP spin-off or something.

Essentially, if you only read Kotaku and maybe Joystiq, you'll see mention of JRPGs on occasion but it's hard to filter them out of all the other various game-related noise. Go to a site like Gematsu or Animenewsnetwork, hell even Mechadamashii, and it's easier to see that JRPGs are pretty strong today, or at least in a better place than they were at the beginning of the generation.

They are marketing towards their respective demographics, essentially. Atlus, NamcoBandai, NISA, Aksys, etc. all know their audiences and aren't going to overextend unless they think it's a good idea, as was the case with games such as Persona 3/4 which have shown that they can capture a relatively wide audience. Any other sort of release is relatively low-key but mark my words there are plenty of them.

[Zidders]

I'd love to see more western jrpg-style games. Oddly enough, while ostensibly being a squad based action/rpg, Krater has more than a few jrpg style touches (specifically, an overworld, random boss encounters, the upgrade system). I realize Krater is European but I think it still technically counts.

I'd love to see a cyberpunk jrpg style game, for instance. Something like Shadowrun.

[gameqb11]

I am so over JRPGs and japanese games overall. When i was younger, i couldnt get enough of their quirkiness, over-dramatic plots and repetition. Now, after 20yrs- its a stale formula. I remember when my ENTIRE game collection was japanese...now i cant even remember the last japanese game i played. (thats goin got change with Dark Souls thoguh!!)

[Shades]

I haven't missed them, frankly. I dislike Japanamanga style RPGs, as the early ones firmly convinced me that "Japan" doesn't know how to do RPGs right. Yeah, I know, rip me to shreds for that one, but my opinion holds. They get them all wrong, IMO. *shrug*

[Amtemn]

I'd love to see more western jrpg-style games. Oddly enough, while ostensibly being a squad based action/rpg, Krater has more than a few jrpg style touches (specifically, an overworld, random boss encounters, the upgrade system). I realize Krater is European but I think it still technically counts.

I'd love to see a cyberpunk jrpg style game, for instance. Something like Shadowrun.

Shadowrun inspired JRPG style game?! I'm not much for JRPGs anymore, but if I started seeing things like this I could definitely get back into playing them. I played the hell out of them as a kid, but now they just don't seem to grab my attention like they used to.

[Tanuki]

there are plenty of RPGs being released, both ARPG and JRPG, sadly almost none of them are -story- RPGs.

the typical JRPG has shifted from being plot centric to numbers centric; where in old JRPGs it was that the combat and leveling was present to flesh out the story so the game was more engaging than just walking from dialog point to dialog point, now what little story is present is simply to spice up and distract from all the grinding / fidgeting with numbers.

the tales series is one of the few last bastions of story based RPGs, sadly ever since the merger between Namco and Bandai even that has been in decline with each new game being released having more and more grind / craft content and less and less of a coherent story (hopefully Xillia steps up to the plate that Vesparia fell short of and Graces wasn't even trying for).

even the PSP & DS RPGs are less about the characters and plot in favor of just offering up grinding on the go .... it's kinda to be expected though, if the MMO market has crushed the story based adventur-RPG genre in the west, just think of what it has done to the profitability of big budget RPGs with little replay value in Japan. the money is simply not there since it's being drained into MMOs, so developers are shifting to Tatical or Action based RPGs.

the home of story based "roll playing games" in Japan has become the Visual Novel genre, but most of that is inde-developed by hard core Otaku and it's difficult to find the ones that you can get through without the main character banging his sister or a graphic tentacle rape scene.

[Tanuki]

I am so over JRPGs and japanese games overall. When i was younger, i couldnt get enough of their quirkiness, over-dramatic plots and repetition. Now, after 20yrs- its a stale formula. I remember when my ENTIRE game collection was japanese...now i cant even remember the last japanese game i played. (thats goin got change with Dark Souls thoguh!!)

you should look into the stuff localized by Carpe Fulgur, JRPG for sure, but mostly Indie developed titles by people who loved the conventions but not the stale formulas.

I haven't missed them, frankly. I dislike Japanamanga style RPGs, as the early ones firmly convinced me that "Japan" doesn't know how to do RPGs right. Yeah, I know, rip me to shreds for that one, but my opinion holds. They get them all wrong, IMO. *shrug*

where the lines get tangled up between western RPGs and JRPGs is that when DnD type RPG-ing come over from the US the Japanese market didn't really get the sandbox nature of it; they liked the part where you get lost in a fantasy world and could recreate yourself however you liked, but the part where there wasn't really an end goal and you were just supposed to wander around on self contained adventures each game night just didn't click. Japanese DnD players kept asking what was the point when there wasn't a end goal to be working towards, so PnP publishers started writing up campaigns with story arcs plot narratives that would drive the players to an ultimate objective .... it probably had something to do with Japan's social structure and work ethic of the time.

that in turn flowed into building computer run "story campaigns" that could be played by single players who lacked the free time to sit down the PnP session (or lacked the social skills to find others to sit down with) but still wanted to play out the story and experience the fantasy world, that hit the main stream and marketing took over with the end result being two extremely different definitions for what constituted a roll playing game: one where you "roll play" as if you personally are a character in a story (the kind I'm guessing you like), and one where you "roll play" as a character from the story.

the character become you or you become the character; both types are roll playing, but rarely do the two see eye to eye.

[Spirit]

I was a big fan of jrpgs during the ps1/2 era, but I really don't like them now. A lot of things I don't have the patience for anymore; specifically the melodrama (I played FF13, and absolutely hated Vanille with a passion). Playing Oblivion for the first time sold me on wrpgs - the open world sandbox environment, the story being centered on you the player, a more realistic art direction, character customisation, the focus on loot etc. Most jrpgs just don't offer that.

[Amtemn]

I was a big fan of jrpgs during the ps1/2 era, but I really don't like them now. A lot of things I don't have the patience for anymore; specifically the melodrama (I played FF13, and absolutely hated Vanille with a passion). Playing Oblivion for the first time sold me on wrpgs - the open world sandbox environment, the story being centered on you the player, a more realistic art direction, character customisation, the focus on loot etc. Most jrpgs just don't offer that.

If Oblivion was your first real WRPG, how many have you played? There were many great WRPGs before then, and if you have the patience to deal with outdated games, I would highly suggest you try them out. =) Games like...

Fallout 1&2
Baldur's Gate II
Neverwinter Nights (one of my favorites here, and the multiplayer community is still very active to this day... CHECK THIS ONE OUT)
Etc etc...

[wolfmane]

I think the overall problem is that the flagship of the JRPG genre, Final Fantasy, has tanked. It's going to take a while for somebody to either take their place or for Final Fantasy to earn back the trust of the players. I also think that JRPGs have kind of written themselves into a corner as Amtemn alluded to with the overwrought melodrama in the same way that anime has done. They've become overly formulaic in that regard and are victims to their own tropes.

[Spirit]

I was a big fan of jrpgs during the ps1/2 era, but I really don't like them now. A lot of things I don't have the patience for anymore; specifically the melodrama (I played FF13, and absolutely hated Vanille with a passion). Playing Oblivion for the first time sold me on wrpgs - the open world sandbox environment, the story being centered on you the player, a more realistic art direction, character customisation, the focus on loot etc. Most jrpgs just don't offer that.

If Oblivion was your first real WRPG, how many have you played? There were many great WRPGs before then, and if you have the patience to deal with outdated games, I would highly suggest you try them out. =) Games like...

Fallout 1&2
Baldur's Gate II
Neverwinter Nights (one of my favorites here, and the multiplayer community is still very active to this day... CHECK THIS ONE OUT)
Etc etc...

Yep, went back and done a bunch, not got round to Fallout 2 yet. BG2 is fantastic.

[Seer]

Hmm... now that I think of it, I haven't played that many JRPGs, even though I loved the few that I played.


So many games to play suddendly...

[GigaDager]

Are we all making the move to Western RPGs? Are they statistically more popular than JRPGs, now and before?

[Spirit]

Are we all making the move to Western RPGs? Are they statistically more popular than JRPGs, now and before?

I think Skyrims sales really blew a lot of peoples minds, Bethesda included. 10 million copies for any kind of genre is outstanding, but for an rpg its unprecedented. There was a point where more people were playing Skyrim on steam than the latest CoD. Wrpgs were well established on the pc for quite a while, but it was this console generation where they really blew up. Oblivion was really what kicked things off I think. It had a console appeal, but also managed to retain its rpg-ness (though fans of Morrowind might disagree). And the west has a thirst for open world games thats really developed this gen. Borderlands, GTA, Red Dead, Just Cause, Assassins Creed, Crackdown etc.

But Japan has shown it can still offer great rpgs when it wants to. Demon/Dark Souls, Xenoblade, Dragons Dogma, Nier were all critically acclaimed, even though the sales could have been better. Those games feature stuff the west likes; middle aged protagonists, open world gameplay, high fantasy aesthetics. You can make a game palatable to the west, yet it still be inherently Japanese.

I don't think jrpgs are dead and buried or anything like that. They just need to adapt to a global market. Japan was always the leader, but things have shifted and now the power (cant think of a better word) is with the west. Square Enix seems to have the most difficulty in adapting here, truth be told I don't think they really know what the hell they're doing.

[gold163]

Are we all making the move to Western RPGs? Are they statistically more popular than JRPGs, now and before?

This is difficult to say. I think that we can safely say that western RPGs are at an all-time high in popularity due to the explosion of the game industry within the last 5-10 years, the resurgence of WRPGs in general, and their breaking into the mainstream with big names such as Bioware, Bethesda, etc. It's gotten to the point where massive games such as Skyrim have had a very noticeable impact on the design and scale of Japanese RPGs, as is apparent in games such as Dragon's Dogma, at least superficially.

On the other hand, Japanese releases are still fairly popular... in Japan at least. People pretty much save up vacation days for a new Dragon Quest release from what I've heard, Pokemon is still an unstoppable juggernaut among younger audiences, Final Fantasy is still fairly popular despite its recent missteps, etc. etc. I think WRPGs are more statistically popular than JRPGs as of current, without a doubt. But it's not as if JRPG releases have slowed down. Like was mentioned before they're still being released in surprising frequency back in the homeland, just that they're being marketed more towards dedicated fanbases and niche or otaku audiences.

Over here in the west it's largely the same thing. It has been since the last generation of consoles. There was a time where you'd see a flyer for Best Buy or Gamestop or walk into the store and see fresh copies of Eternal Poison or La Pucelle or something and you'd go, "well what the fuck are those??" Now, these games aren't even really on display anymore, because the number of current generation high-profile western releases has pumped up enough to push them into the back shelves of stores or they're buried right next to the used games section where you can't see them. UNLESS they're on PSP or DS, on both of which they are a pretty dominant genre given that western developers can't make portable games worth shit, or won't bother trying because they don't make as much money despite the fact that there's barely any competition.

Even though JRPGs aren't overreaching beyond their target audiences though, what you are seeing is the expansion of these target audiences. Back when Disgaea first came out on the PS2 nobody had ever heard of it and if you professed your fandom of NIS it was pretty hardcore and edgy. Then they rereleased the game on PSP and DS, made sequels, made a really big push to advertise the property and related or similar works, and now Disgaea is practically a household name among obscure-but-not-really JRPG fandom. Atlus was the same way. Barely anybody had heard of Shin Megami Tensei here in the west. Then they did a totally boss localized release of Persona 3 (I think it was FES that really caught on, not the original release), put out a bunch of DS games (most notably Devil Survivor), and now people at least know about the series, even if they're not interested in the flagship releases as much. They're at least in the corner of the public eye, which is more than what you could have said about them 5 years ago.

If there is a perceived collapse of the genre here in the west, like someone mentioned it's because of Final Fantasy. I hate to admit it, but FF is pretty much the poster child for JRPGs here in the west. People adore the franchise (much to my chagrin) and it's the closest to what you could possibly say are mainstream JRPGs here in the west. And with Square Enix's clear desire to focus more on western-style releases, publishing, and less on FF development you can see why people might say the property isn't as strong as it was back in the PS2 era. Given that it was the biggest name in the genre over here it's not surprising that it's caused the perception that the genre is in a decline, whether that's actually true or not.

[muxenle]

To my knowledge the only real JRPG i've played have been a couple of final fanasty games...

What are some recomendtions?

[gold163]

Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne (Megaten in general is badass and blows Final Fantasy out of the water)

It will either redefine your views on JRPGs because of how fucking awesome it is or turn you off from them forever because of all the grinding.

The Etrian Odyssey series is pretty good; I've only really played the third though. If you're willing to go deeper there's 7th Dragon which was made by people who worked on the first EO; I've heard it's really good but it's Japanese-only. Disgaea and other NIS stuff is good. Actually, the PS2 is a treasure trove of good (and terrible) JRPGs. Valkyrie Profile 2, Shadow Hearts, etc.

Could always go back to classics like Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire, Lunar, Grandia I and II, maybe stuff like Star Ocean or Tales.

If you're looking for PC stuff, someone mentioned the Carpe Fulgur-translated stuff that's available on Steam (Fortune Summoners, Chantelise, and Recettear are decent and all very charming), and Ys, which is pretty good too.