EnchantMod(never wipe)

[SHABBADABBA]

I've advanced my Destroyer to level 51, and have been using this mod for about twenty levels.

This mod does unbalance the game, no doubt about it, because it allows for UNLIMITED enchanting. Nothing stops you from taking any weapon and giving it incredible damage, or stacking armor with every bonus you can imagine. Yes, you can still get yourself killed, but it's just WAAAAY harder to do so.

I think a better alternative would be cutting the original disenchant percentage increase from +2% to +1% after each new enchant. Either that, or doubling the cost to enchant.

Other mods that address the shortcomings in Skills at high character levels may be preferable to this mod, which really throws game balance right out the window.

[Folken]

Hi,

When I try to visit torchlit.net the site is blocked by my security software and I get this warning:



Any idea what's up?

Thanks

Yeah, my antivirus went nuts when I tried to access the site, too.

[Arkham]

The other option that I would accept is, rather than wiping all enchantments, wiping two or three of them. Like I said, enchanting is a gamble, yes, but when I step up to the blackjack table, make a pass line bet, and lose, the dealer doesn't take all of my chips on the table and all of the chips in my hand.

(snip)

I don't want something that removes ALL possibility of wiping an item clean, but if there exists a mod that severely reduces that chance - or adds the possibility of super enchants - I would love to see it.

Enthusiastically agreed. I do use this mod, simply because the chance of getting a good weapon completely wiped are (imo) unacceptable considering what I'm getting in return--however, an optimal solution would be just as you outlined, having a % chance for one or a few of the item's enchants/modifiers be removed, rather than every single one of them. If there was a mod that did that I would definitely use it.

[deeminllama]

I would like a 50/50 enchanter...50% percent of being enchanted, 50% chance of losing your money, with no loss of enchantments on fail...

Point being: we each have different tastes and likes. Thus, instead of every person posting how he/she would like the mod and complaining about how it is not...could you please, if possible, post some tutorial on how to edit your own mod, if possible, to our own needs. I assume its simply the editing of specific values or variables? Then we can each talor the enchanting system to our own liking.

I think this would be a much better solution to the "problem" - as well as increase the appeal and use of this mod.

Thanks.

[creekchub]

If you search the TorchEd area for "enchanter" you will find the information. That's what I did. Basically you have to create a mod with TorchEd, then copy a file called globals.dat from its normal location (which I don't recall offhand, you can find it with Windows' Search function if nothing else, or by clicking around in the Torchlight and TorchEd folders) to the Media folder of your mod, then edit globals.dat with Notepad to change the numbers for those variables. Then make sure in TorchEd that your mod is enabled for use (has a checkmark next to it in the list of mods). I did this last night and had never used TorchEd before. Now my Enchanter doesn't wipe.

If only they would post the 1.15 patch for the disc version of the game...

By the way 50% chance of failure is the same as it working every time but doubling the cost each time. On average with the same money to spend you will end up with the same number of enchantments. There is the potential in the short term to get lucky or unlucky I guess, but in terms of balance, it is the same.

[ChronosKnight]

I cant download your mods, the site torchlit.net is down or something? Can you please give us some diferent mirrors?

[ignite]

I installed this mod because the prospect of losing an entire set of enchants was silly to me. At the same time, I had installed another mod that slightly increased the amount of god from selling items. Furthermore, I looked for a mod that would auto-loot (and found it wasn't possible). I've since uninstalled the two mods mentioned.

1. This mod removes penalties for enchanting. The only limit then is the limit of enchants on an item, and the gold required to enchant said item. Therefore, the goal is to collect as much gold as possible to throw as many enchants as possible on to a weapon or armor piece so they can keep up with the increasing mob difficulty.

2. Mods that increase the amount of gold per item sold decrease the amount of time spent collecting gold. An auto-loot mod would simplify this even better (and actually, of all the mods, that's one I would support the most -- Dungeon Siege 2 worked wonderfully with its Z or X key to auto-loot everything).

3. It seems like then that the combination of these mods do one thing: drive you to obtain more gold so you can put more enchants onto an item. This seems to address the issue of item scaling, which is a legit concern, and the issue of auto-looting (some people go so far as to have mods that remove white items from dropping).

4. But then I asked myself... if that's all I really care about, why shouldn't I just use the console to GIVE myself gold? If all I want is more gold to enchant an item, without the possibility of having those enchants removed, then I think that takes away from the fun of the game.

Now, I do agree that having an items stats wiped is pretty silly. Yet, after I uninstalled the mod and went to see the disenchant chance on some of the items I had enchanted, I saw that a few of them were 25-28% disenchant chance. I basically felt like I had cheated (I mean, I had, more or less). At the same time, the mod is trying to address a legit problem, just like SkillLeech mod does (to make abilities like Devastate and Slash Attack work with health drain). I mean, I use that mod, and I don't feel like I'm cheating, because I think that mod is actually -balancing- the game. I feel like it's a bug that these abilities don't work with health drains, because without health drains, it gets to be almost impossible.

I've played on both sides of the fence though. I play World of Warcraft, where epic items don't change, they don't lose their stats. Content is scaled around gear (and vice versa). However, the content difficulty also doesn't change by itself, therefore, the hardest encounters offer gear for that content. The items also stay forever. Once you have it, you have it for good.

I also played a game called Medievia. There, the items would 'tweak' when they were loaded onto the NPCs. Items would have a base and would change off it, for better or worse. The base might be 30 health, 30 mana, but the item could tweak 25/25, or 35/35, or 20/40, etc. It was much harder for an item to tweak extremely higher (or low) than it was to tweak closer to the base. Items here also have base amount of days on them. They'd start at 185 days duration. Once they hit 0, if the item was above base stats, it would revert back to base. You could 'extend' the duration of the item though, up to 12 times. Once you'd hit 12 extensions, you could remove an egging (an egging was used to add 45 days, up to 12 times), to add another one. However, the closer to 12 extensions, the more chance of the item breaking. (And you could only remove eggings from items that had been egged 12 times, or maybe it was 10-12 times, don't really remember.)

Torchlight needs some kind of happy medium. One problem is that, because of enchanting, let's say you get a great weapon early on, and a better weapon drops. However, because you've enchanted the first weapon so many times, the second one (even though its base stats are better, and it is actually a better weapon) is useless. On the flip side, let's say you put a max of 5 enchants on an item. What if those 5 enchants are worthless? They might do nothing for you.

Maybe that's the point of endless dungeon though -- to see how far you can get with the 'best' weapons the game offers, and if you want to risk enchanting things, so be it. Generally though, I think the penalty for continually risking an enchant needs to be something more than, "Well, it costs more and more gold." That's not really a deterrence.

For similar reasons, the chance of not enchanting isn't a deterrence either, because there is no real penalty, except gold (which is time, or mods, or cheats). I think a more fair system would be something like this:

1. First enchant - 100% success rate - 100% gold cost (relative to whatever the base cost is)
2. Second enchant - 95% success rate, 5% fail rate (no enchant) - 110% cost
3. Third enchant - 90% success rate, 10% fail rate - 120% cost
4. Fourth enchant - 85% success rate, 15% fail rate - 130% cost
5. Fifth enchant - 80% success rate, 20% fail rate - 140% cost
6. Sixth enchant - 75% success rate, 25% fail rate - 150% cost, and an additional 10% chance that you won't be able to add any more enchants (regardless of whether this enchant worked)
7. Seventh enchant - 70% success rate, 30% fail rate - 160% cost, 20% chance to limit any further enchants
8. Eighth enchant - 65% success, 35% fail, 170% cost, 40% limit chance
9. Ninth enchant - 60% success, 40% fail, 180% cost, 60% limit chance
10. Tenth enchant - 55% success, 45% fail, 190% cost, 80% limit chance
11. Eleventh enchant - 50% success, 50% fail, 200% cost, 100% limit chance (in this case, you have a 50% chance to get an eleventh enchant, and a 100% chance to make the max enchants for this item 10, meaning if you failed the enchant, you're stuck at 10 enchants).

[creekchub]

If you keep enchanting low level items you get expensive, but lousy, enchants. The tenth enchant on a low level item might give you +2 fire resistance, whereas the first enchant on a high level item might give you +30 fire resistance. To me, it is an interesting choice of when to stop enchanting a lower item and start spending my money on building up a new, higher level item. I only have so much gold, and so much gaming time (I am not a WoW type who will grind over and over just to get something) so I don't need wipes to make the decision on where to spend my gold interesting. The increasing costs are enough, along with the increasing power (and cost) of enchants on higher level items.

[ignite]

Let's say we have two weapons. One has a base of 135-250 damage. Another has a base of 150-280. They have the same swing time, and no enchants yet. Clearly then the second one is superior. However, despite the second one being better, we may never actually use it, because we've enchanted the first one so much. There is no incentive to "start over." At least with the original game, there is a deterrence factor that says, "If you keep pressing your luck and enchanting, you will lose all your enchants." Then, yes, the second weapon will be the logical step.

Removing enchanting completely isn't even such a bad thing. Sure, it sucks to lose enchants on an item, but it also sucks to have enchanted one item 6+ times and have it be superior to many, many other items. It doesn't feel like I'm ever upgrading my equipment then. It feels like everything that drops is automatically sold because it can't benefit me.

[creekchub]

They have the same swing time, and no enchants yet. Clearly then the second one is superior. However, despite the second one being better, we may never actually use it, because we've enchanted the first one so much.

I can't understand your example. Does the first one have enchants, or not?

It makes a difference. If the first one is a much lower level weapon, and only does that much damage because of enchants, it does make sense to start enchanting the second one, because it is much higher level and the enchants on it will have much greater effects.

[ignite]

They have the same swing time, and no enchants yet. Clearly then the second one is superior. However, despite the second one being better, we may never actually use it, because we've enchanted the first one so much.

I can't understand your example. Does the first one have enchants, or not?

It makes a difference. If the first one is a much lower level weapon, and only does that much damage because of enchants, it does make sense to start enchanting the second one, because it is much higher level and the enchants on it will have much greater effects.

I said they have no enchants -- and I meant no enchants of any kind.

You say it makes a difference, to start enchanting the second one. This looks good on paper, but in reality, let's say you've spent 100,000 gold enchanting a weapon that's only slightly worse (un-enchanted) than one that drops for you. Now let's say you need to spend 80,000 to get the second one up to where the first one is. And if you don't have 80k sitting around, then it's going to take a while, so, what, you're supposed to hold on to the weapon and collect 80k? You'd be better off just enchanting the first one over and over. The better enchants argument doesn't really work, since it takes so many enchants to catch up.

This game encourages finding a weapon and enchanting that weapon to no end -- until you lose all the enchants. Then you need a backup, or you don't enchant at all, either way. This mod takes that deterrence out. What this mod basically does is remove the whole concept of 'upgraded' items dropping. Who cares if a theoretical upgrade drops when you've already got a super powerful item because of endless enchants?

I realize it's a single player game, and I don't have to use the mod -- but my point is that I agree with what the mod is setting out to do. The mod is trying to fix the whole "poof, all your enchants are gone!" aspect. I agree with that. However, I think a better system would be to either limit the number of enchants that can be put on an item, or, even better, maybe instead of removing all the enchants, it removes only some of them (maybe the last one, or two, or however many).

[creekchub]

I still can't understand your example. You are talking about comparing two weapons that both have no enchants? What does that have to do with the idea of having a lot of enchants on one of them so you don't want to switch to the other?

I will give you an example of what I mean. I find a weapon. It requires character level 5 to use. I put 8 enchants on it and it ends up doing 50-100 damage, including some fire and some ice damage. Now I am character level 12 and I find another weapon. It has no enchants on it and does a base 40-80 damage. Will I start enchanting it as an eventual replacement for the level 5 weapon? Hell yes. The enchants on it will be a lot better since it is a higher level weapon and they won't be more expensive than my lower level one because that one already has 8 enchants. I might not use it yet till it surpasses the other weapon in damage, but it quickly will with a few enchants and then I will switch, destroy the other one to get any ember back, combine those with other embers I have gotten in the meantime to get higher level embers, and put those in the new weapon.

I do this all the time when I play. I would never keep using a level 5 weapon the entire game, because eventually it will start to suck compared to what you find, especially considering that enchants put on higher level weapons will be much better than enchants put on lower level weapons.

The choices come in deciding what to spend my money on, and when to start working on a replacement item. There are a lot of choices because it is not just weapons, it is every piece of equipment you wear that you have to keep upgrading, and you find higher level items of each kind of equipment, and they themselves have varying abilities to choose from. I find it quite interesting. I find wipes extremely annoying.

[ignite]

I still can't understand your example. You are talking about comparing two weapons that both have no enchants? What does that have to do with the idea of having a lot of enchants on one of them so you don't want to switch to the other?

How can you possibly be this daft?

Item A drops
In every other game, and Torchlight (without enchanting), you look forward to getting an upgrade (item B).
Torchlight, however, also allows you to enchant your items.
You enchant item A because item B hasn't dropped yet.
You continue to enchant item A.
Then item B drops. Without the enchants on item A, item B is an upgrade. It's the "next tier" of items.
However, you've made significant investments into item A already, such that for item B to catch up (regardless of whether enchanting is better on B than A), you would have to invest much, much more than you would if you just simply kept enchanting item A.

I'm not talking about level 5 vs level 12 items. I'm talking about items that may require, let's say, level 23-25, vs one that requires level 28+, and in this case, you've waited so long for an "upgrade" to drop to item A that when item B does drop, it's not worth using anymore.

The choices come in deciding what to spend my money on, and when to start working on a replacement item. There are a lot of choices because it is not just weapons, it is every piece of equipment you wear that you have to keep upgrading, and you find higher level items of each kind of equipment, and they themselves have varying abilities to choose from. I find it quite interesting. I find wipes extremely annoying.

Those aren't choices. Those are guesses. You don't know what items are going to drop. You could throw down 50k in enchants on an item and then have a better item in that same slot drop (just much later on, but you choose to stop enchanting it along the way). That's why there is some risk in disenchanting items. It's to prevent you from holding on to the same item forever. Otherwise, you're just playing to get gold. That's pointless. This is an Action RPG. People play Action RPGs to build their character up, to explore, to endlessly grind and feel 'power' when they obliterate wave after wave of creatures. By incorporating a 'disenchant' risk, the game is saying, "Sure, you might have a ton of gold, but we don't want gold to be the sole motivation for enchanting an item. We want you to lose the enchants on that item eventually, so you move on to a different item."

[COR]

Ive read through this thread and think Ive come up with a system.
Change disenchant to randomly remove one enchantment.
Have an enchantment cap = 10 + ([character Lv.] / 10) rounded down. (lv 1 gets 10, lv 50 gets 15, lv 100 gets 20, lv 83 gets 18, and so on)
Keep the current chances to enchant, add socket, and fail but make the chance to disenchant = [No. of enchantments] x [No. of enchantments]) / 4
The following table shows how the more you enchant you'll start seeing diminishing returns.

No. of enchantments__|___0___1_____2___3___4___5____6____7____8____9_____10____11_____12____13____14_____15____16____17_____18____19____20
% to disenchant ______|___0__0.25 __1__2.25__4__6.25__9__12.25__16__20.25__ 25___30.25___36___42.25___49___56.25___64___72.25___81___90.25__100

Additionally you make the chance to disenchant separate from the chance to enchant, add socket, and fail. That way you end up with 3 possible outcomes, lose an enchantment, replace an enchantment, and gain an enchantment.
This makes it easier to get to 20 enchantments, but people have been saying enchanting is overpowered. So you could always make the chance to disenchant linear instead of exponential.
Like this: [Chance to disenchant] = [No. of enchantments] x [No. of enchantments]) / 4
Which would leave the table looking like this:

No. of enchantments__|___0___1___2___3___4___5___6___7___8___9___10___11___12___13___14___15___16___17___18___19___20
% to disenchant ______|___0___5 __10__15__20__25__30__35__40__45__ 50___55___60___65___70___75___80___85___90___95__100

In either case though it means that if you reach the cap and have an enchantment you don't want you can keep enchanting in the chance that the enchantment you don't want is the one you lose, the true beauty of this though is that losing an enchantment to make room for another is actually harder at lower levels, because the lower chance to disenchant means you'll be enchanting more times hoping to lose an enchantment, while your lower level means you have less money to do this with. (Reverse Diminishing Returns!)


Now that we have a system that balances enchanting all the way to level 100, all we need is someone who can implement it in a mod, as I have no Idea how modding in torchlight works

Any Questions? Or Problems for that matter.

[stimuli]

when I clicked the link (in the first post) to the download location McAfee popped up a message saying "McAfee has blocked a potentially harmful script from running on your computer" then another message stating, "McAfee has removed a trojan from your computer"

wtf dude?

[Kruhljak]

I think Fate (which is functionally a precursor to Torchlight) did it quite well. Along with positive enchants, you sometimes also got (or got instead) a negative or penalty enchant. This allowed for continuous enchanting, but ultimately, there was a built-in balancing aspect. If you were particularly lucky, much as with avoiding disenchants in TL, you'd end up with a great item, if not, well, at least you still had something left after the smoke cleared. You could also get lucky by getting good enchants on preferable mods, and penalties on mods that weren't an issue for the character that would use the item. The point being that there was risk, but it wasn't an all-in gamble. Such things might suit those that play only hardcore characters, but not for those like me who have a different, more conservative playstyle.

I also have my own limitations whereby I set a max of 5 enchants on a particular item + 1 for every 3 levels the owner gains. This in conjunction with a mod that blocks the disenchant chance at the vendor for the first several attempts, and removes it from shrines, works very well to suit my stride. I can get some goodies without risk, but that risk still looms if I push past a certain point. I'd still prefer a mod similar to that suggested above where a preexisting enchant is stripped rather than the entire slew (when I had my first disenchant I nearly bit off my tongue...I thought it would be just one mod not that whole thing--including the damage--my sword went to 0-0). I hope such fine detail isn't beyond the available modder tools.

[drb]

is it just me or does enchanting just suck? i never seem to get a good enchant or even something remotely useful, and on top of that i aways get a different one, so ill end up with 13 different +3 enchants or w/e is it just me or what =/

[creekchub]

I think the real problem is the items are just boring. All they do is add numbers. There is really no difference between using a sword that does 1-6 damage against a creature with 3 hit points and a sword that does 10-60 damage against a creature with 30 hit points.

Yeah there are different elemental damage types, but they are still automatic so there is no decision to make regarding using them, and they never get used up.

The old D&D system of having items with spectacular effects, but limited uses per day or limited charges before they ran out, would make buying/enchanting items, and the combat system in particular, a lot more interesting.

As it is, I can't see myself wanting to play an MMO version of this. It's just endless blasting and bashing to do the maximum damage you can with your best weapon/skill. Ultimately enchanting, like buying, is just boring. The game system is too simple for long-term interest. I think it is a problem with all Diablo clones, there really is little difference in what play looks like at the different difficulty levels. At least Diablo had Stone Curse and monsters with immunities so you had to keep switching weapons/spells, you could not just use your best spell/weapon all the time.

[Necroscope84]

Thank you so much for this mod. At lv. 20 I barely have 10k gold and can't afford too many enchants and losing my best weapon yesterday really sucked. I do very well on Hard against most foes but every once in a while I get one of those special maps, or mysterious maps or whatever they're called and I died 8 times in one today so I doubt I'm op too much by enchanting one item every few days when I can afford it Lol. Now I don't have to worry about losing my item anymore

[Torched1000x]

When it comes to ideal level of enchanting, each person has a different point of view. Even myself ideal version of enchanting changes over time as my characters progressed in gaining levels.

I made an enchanting mod too after I started playing TL for about a week.

Early level, Level 1-20, my ideal enchanting setting was: (mod version 1.0)
- Enchanter: First 10 enchant 100% no wipe. After that Dis-enchant rate is increase by 1% every 2 enchants up to a maximum of 5%. Can enchant up to 50 times on an item with 70% to successfully enchant an item.
- Enchant shire: 100% no wipe. 100% to successfully enchant an item with magic. Can enchant up to 1000 times on an item.

This was working fine for me until some ppl say that their items got wipe after they load my mod (because they enchanted their items over the cap of 50 enchant by enchanter.) and I cannot afford to enchant any of my items for more than three times per item. So I update my mod to version 2.0

Mid level: Level 15-30 or so, my new ideal enchanting setting was: (mod version 2.0)
- Enchanter: First 10 enchant 100% no wipe. After that Dis-enchant rate increase by 1% every 2 enchants up to maximum of 5%. Can enchant up to 100 times on an item with 80% to successfully enchant an item.
- Price of enchant set to 0.10 (10% increase in price per enchant)

High level: Level 35+. I now came to realize the need to enchant an item more than 10 times at much higher level. I may never enchant my item more than 25 times on one single item. As a matter of fact, I only enchanted my jeweleries/trinkets up to 20 times and my weapons up to 10 times maximum but I NEVER enchanted my armors. I think I will need to enchant my armors soon once the game start to get difficult again at 40-50ish+.

So here is my newest version: Version 3.0Final
- Enchanter: First 10 enchant 100% no wipe. After that Dis-enchant rate is increase by 1% every 5 enchants up to a maximum of 5%. Can enchant up to 1000 times on an item with 75% to successfully enchant an item.
- Price of enchant set back to default value of 0.25 (25% increase per enchant)

Conclusion: Enchanting is fun, finding items to enchant is fun, but disenchant is not when it's too high. It's all about you, just enchant it to whatever level you see fit.

Shameless Advertising: Please go to the link bellow to see my mod and let me know what you think. All comments are appreciated in their respective way.

[M♣D] BETTER ENCHANTING AND GAMEPLAY V3.0Final AUG 18 2010