Answering the common questions!

[cybrim]

I was just responding to adoomgod... giving him props for maybe his 3rd... post that I cared about, thanks paws, you're awesome

[Paws]

I realize -- I didn't mean to put you on the spot cybrim, it was more aimed at doom

[cybrim]

lol Its ok,but will we have more fun in a huge group of chaos... or playing solo!? I would like people's opinions on this... (Massive entire game raid structure, small parties or mostly solo) How do you play people? I am a small party soloist personally, I WILL NOT wait forever to hop in a game with people... that is just a waste of time.

[adoomgod]

Lol I am sorry paws. When i said "neeeee and narrrrr!" i thought it was clear i was kidding and not "railing" against the demographic who doesn't prefer MMOs. I am actually one of those people as i prefer ARPGs over MMOs. I just wanted to point out that there is nothing to fear but fear itself and until we see the MMO there is no reason to assume that it won't be awesome. Runic is awesome.

[Frostbite]

Can't wait for the MMO to release, I guess I'll just have to play Torchlight 2 and Diablo 3 until then.

[RagingGamer]

Can't wait for the MMO to release, I guess I'll just have to play Torchlight 2 and Diablo 3 until then.

I bet the wait between TL2 and TL MMO is far less than D2 to D3. I have been waiting a few years now, playing various games to cover the gap, until D3 is released from an even more reasonable and recent history (about 2.5-3 years now...).

[Nosaji]

This has probably been covered, but I don't see it anywhere looking at recent topics.

I know the MMO was supposed to be released 2 years after Torchlight 1. Now that they are making another next-step game, how far back will that push the MMO after TL2?

[Webbstre]

No one knows yet

[Nosaji]

It makes me sad that we could have an MMO almost wrapped up, but instead we have another temporary intermediary game.

I think the developers misunderstood the people when they said, " we want multiplayer”. What we meant was, we wanted Torchlight 1 to have multiplayer, not go and build another game and add multiplayer.

[Zidders]

i'd go into a long explanation as to why that last post was really silly, instead i'm just going to roll my eyes at it.

[Nosaji]

That's good. I probably would have found your explanation equally as silly and not have read it anyway.

[Paws]

tl;dr version for Nosaji: It would have been more work, and taken longer, to add MP into the first TL than make a second game. Also, tools and structure used in TL2 will be used for the MMO, so they "wasted" more time releasing TL XBLA then they will making TL2.

[Webbstre]

Yeah, everything can be reused in some form for the MMO, so this is all really pre-production if you think about it. They STILL would have needed years to get ready for the MMO, but this way we have things to play with while we wait.

[Nosaji]

tl;dr version for Nosaji: It would have been more work, and taken longer, to add MP into the first TL than make a second game. Also, tools and structure used in TL2 will be used for the MMO, so they "wasted" more time releasing TL XBLA then they will making TL2.

Straw man. I never mentioned adding multi-player to the first one. I don't know where that came from. I think their multilayer version should have been the MMO.

Re-using assets and game creation tools is EXACTLY what they said about Torchlight 1. TL2 has drastically derailed the MMO. I don't think anyone could make a rational argument otherwise no matter how much they can reuse.

I was a long time fan of Mythos and was the biggest Runic Fan-boy this side of the Mississippi river. As soon as they pulled the bait and switch on me and announced another temporary game while dangling the real prize over our heads I turned in my fanboy badge. I just don't trust them anymore. I still check for updates on their site every now and then just to keep up.

I don't care how good Torchlight 2 is, if it comes with an editor and doesn't have a dedicated server to monitor cheating it can't possibly have any kind of an end-game. Just like Torchlight 1, it was fun to get to the end, but after that there was no motivation to play more. That is EXACTLY what Torchlight 2 will be like.

[Webbstre]

Hmmm, now you're judging the final product before it's even released. I can't honestly see anything but impatience as a problem here. You still wouldn't have an MMO to play any time soon if they had skipped either or both games, and the final product will be better after all of this.

Or in other words, if you are that upset, come back in a year or two and see how you feel then.

[Zidders]

Ohh. I see. Haters gonna hate. Nosaji, stop being melodramatic. 'bait & switch'? Sheeesh. Way to over dramatize. You act like they OWE you something.

[Nosaji]

Hmmm, now you're judging the final product before it's even released. I can't honestly see anything but impatience as a problem here. You still wouldn't have an MMO to play any time soon if they had skipped either or both games, and the final product will be better after all of this.

Or in other words, if you are that upset, come back in a year or two and see how you feel then.

In a few years I am sure I will be reading up on Torchlight 3 FAQ. BUT, most of it will be able to be reused!

I wouldn't call not wanting to wait several additional years for a game that said would be 2 years after Torchlight and feeling disappointed a patience issue. I would rather wait a little while longer and be on the cusp of the MMO than having to wait several more years just to get some kind of multi-player version out a little sooner. To me that seems impatient.

[Nosaji]

Ohh. I see. Haters gonna hate. Nosaji, stop being melodramatic. 'bait & switch'? Sheeesh. Way to over dramatize. You act like they OWE you something.

I see, we must all think exactly alike. Isn't there a box when you register stating you are at least 13? Only kidding Zidders... well 1/2 kidding anyway.

[Paws]

I suspect it isn't particularly what your objections are that Zidders finds bothersome -- just how you're couching them. FWIW, the time adjustments made for the MMO release timeline (1-2 years to 2-3 years) were done before any major production was undertaken for TL2, and before the port to XBLA zapped away their time. That's why I mentioned it specifically. Multiplayer isn't MMO -- players requesting the former in general (or without sounding pointed, not you or people like you or I who are very anxious to play the MMO) wanted to play the Diablo-style and that's what Runic is now delivering; my apologies I misunderstood which distinction you were. If I really thought that TL2 would further delay the MMO I'd be chuffed too; it's been my main point of interest since I met Runic at E3 2009.
Beyond that, I think we're at a point to simply agree to disagree on the overall timing impact the second title will have.

[Webbstre]

I'm going to ask you a question: Which is more important, the MMO coming out sooner, or the MMO being better? Because these releases are keeping the company fully funded and giving them the opportunity to test gameplay and features with a very wide audience. What people complained about in TL1 will be fixed in TL2. What people will complain about for TL2 will be fixed for the MMO.

TL2 makes sense from a business-stance because it'll be out before Diablo 3, and will give players the combination of mods and multiplayer that everyone clamored for from the original game. Then they can take time releasing the Mac and console ports for TL2 while Diablo 3 is released, and get people into the MMO after the usual storm of a Blizzard release. I really can't see any legitimate problem with the company wanting to stay in business.

As for your Torchlight 3 comment... what more could they possibly do that the MMO won't? If they release player-run server capabilities for TL2, there's nothing left. If they don't, there is only a battle.net type service, but that would only cost money and take away from their final vision for how an MMO should be. It wouldn't make sense.

Just to try to sympathize, I do understand wanting that Mythos feeling back. I saw a lot of good people in the community that hung around after TL1's launch that decided to leave. I myself don't play Torchlight 1 much any more, but that doesn't mean I have any less faith in Runic's vision for the Torchlight MMO, or their ability to learn from our criticisms and feedback when designing Torchlight 2.

/end rant