A System for Balanced PvP

[Sokaron]

It had to come up. The problem with ARPGs and PvP is that your power is nearly exclusively based on your gear, and gear drops are random. What's the easy fix to this? The answer is going to hurt.

Give items either a PvP or PvE tag. PvE items are NOT allowed to be used in PvP, however, PvP items may be used in PvE.

WHY!? Well, I need to elaborate on the rest of the idea, first.
PvP items would be less randomized than PvE items. That is, you can't get lucky and get "God's Blade of Overpowering" and obliterate everybody. PvP gear would be gained from special zones designated to drop these items. These zones would be 'instanced', and scale to your level. Of course, you can group up with someone to go and get the gear as a pair.
The point of this system is to make PvP:
-easy to get into
-based on skill, not who is luckier


PvP would be split into brackets. These brackets would be something akin to levels 1-9, 10-19, 20-29, etc. Each bracket will have it's own set of gear, with a level requirement of the bottom level for that bracket. (IE, levels 1, 10, 20, and so on.)

What's the incentive to PvP? Well, there would be special PvP gear that would be obtained through a currency called Torched Gold. How do you obtain Torched Gold? Simple. Kill other players in PvP. There would be no other way to obtain it. Assuming that there is something akin to battlegrounds in WoW, winning or losing would not award Torched Gold. It's only based on the kills you make.

To expand a bit on this - you do not get Torched Gold for being in proximity of a kill. Nor can you 'tag' an opponent, so that only you get Torched Gold. You only need to deal damage to the target to receive credit. This pretty much eliminates any AFKers who farm for Torched Gold. You must be active to receive credit.

Now, what's so special about this gear you can buy with Torched Gold? Simple: Gear purchased with this is superior to the standard PvP gear for that tier. You can also save up your Torched Gold for class specific gear that gives bonuses to your class skills and even better stats than standard Torched Gold gear. There would be 3 different sets of class specific gear, for each skill tree.

The last part of this is socketing and enchanting. You may not pay regular gold to enchant PvP gear. Instead, you must use Torched Gold. Of course, due to the fact that torched gold isn't as abundant, the price would scale appropriately. Socketing works as normal.

[Zidders]

They've already stated that they're not really balancing this game for PVP due to the fact that they're making it moddable, which means you either end up in games where you get someone who has used the editor to give themselves massively overpowered gear, OR end up only gaming with friends, in which case balance doesn't really matter since you'll have the oppurtunity to agree upon just who gets to use what to PvP with.

These types of balance issues only really matter in games like Diablo 3 that are non modded and completely enclosed systems that depend entirely upon being balanced. Even so, you're still going to have to choose between playing with people you don't know who might have spent weeks farming for uber gear or playing with people you know.

[amb2010]

Lol Zidders, wrong forum

I don't like your idea. It has the same exact flaws that WoW has, gear > skill. You say straight out that gear is important and this would alleviate that problem but then go right back into the whole "let them buy special PvP gear, better than the rest". You have the normal gear, then for the elites you have the step above that gear which just dominates them. That is by no means "fair" or "equal".

I support a method like this, forcing *anyone* that PvP's to have the same, or similar gear (such as one set for dexterity, one for str and what not depending on what the class is focusing on) and provide an easy way for *everyone* to get it. Then fights are based on skill, not gear, not how much time they have to spend on the game, not how many friends they have to help them get easy kills.

Perhaps just give everyone a set of "PvP" gear that autolevels with them and can only be used in PvP. Think of it as the TL government hosting an event and giving out people standard army gear to use in it. Then give them a way to adjust enchants and gems. It allows for small tweaks to the gear based on the build and keeps it absolutely *fair*.

[Sokaron]

Lol Zidders, wrong forum

I don't like your idea. It has the same exact flaws that WoW has, gear > skill. You say straight out that gear is important and this would alleviate that problem but then go right back into the whole "let them buy special PvP gear, better than the rest". You have the normal gear, then for the elites you have the step above that gear which just dominates them. That is by no means "fair" or "equal".

I support a method like this, forcing *anyone* that PvP's to have the same, or similar gear (such as one set for dexterity, one for str and what not depending on what the class is focusing on) and provide an easy way for *everyone* to get it. Then fights are based on skill, not gear, not how much time they have to spend on the game, not how many friends they have to help them get easy kills.

Perhaps just give everyone a set of "PvP" gear that autolevels with them and can only be used in PvP. Think of it as the TL government hosting an event and giving out people standard army gear to use in it. Then give them a way to adjust enchants and gems. It allows for small tweaks to the gear based on the build and keeps it absolutely *fair*.

I understand what you mean by this, and I went over this thought myself. I think that saying "for the elites" isn't exactly fair, as it's mainly rewarding being a 'veteran' of PvP. It wouldn't dominate them - it's an improvement to it. +10 to a stat here, 5% increase there, and so on.
As to your bottom paragraph, perhaps this is the most ideal solution.

[ipodbud]

First off, i've never liked the the whole pvp gear set sort of thing. gear is gear.
If you get gear from a dungeon, or a pvp system of sorts it should be all the same.

Secondly, how about just having each skill do a set range of damage to player and then a more scaled version vs. NPC's?

For example:

Fire Ball
(1-5 damage to player, 10% Crit chance to player)
(1-5 damage to NPC + 2x Intellect, 10% Crit chance to player + .5x % agility)

Or you could do something like this to make sure gear is still valued:

Fire Ball
(1-5 damage to player + .25x intellect, 10% Crit chance to player +.05x % agility)
(1-5 damage to NPC + 2x Intellect, 10% Crit chance to player + .5x % agility)

thoughts?

[amb2010]

Well the PvP set is there to ensure *everyone* in the PvP mode has the same gear, therefore you don't get people winning because they grinded X dungeon more than you but because they are a more skilled player than you. PvP specific gear generally has a rating on it somewhere to reduce the damage done by players, which would basically do the same thing you suggested just on an overall level instead of skill specific. Such as WoW having "resilience" taking a chunk out of all damage dealt to you via player attacks.

[ipodbud]

exactly. but what im saying is that having the modifiers removed, or shrunken, for stats for pvp (see post above) then it would do the same thing without gear having to be an issue.

[Witchlamp]

I think these are all valid ideas, but my concern is the method of obtaining it. Instead of being assigned gearsets for PvP, or Torched Gold, throw a bone to the people who want a bit of story as well. Give a reason for PvP in addition to the enjoyable competition aspect. Perhaps a quest chain to 'prepare' for PvP would be a viable option to introduce people to the challenges that other players can deliver who would otherwise decline the PvP atmosphere.

[Elthurien]

The best idea for me would be that gear is negated completely in PvP and classes are limited to a few iconic abilities.
Skill based PvP with a championship ladder for the competitive people.
Reward should be for the win, not for the lewts.

[Takiri]

Yeah... You work to get all your PvP gear just to have it ruined by a super saiyan modder in your face the next second ^_^ Sounds like fun.

People need to play Torchlight 2 for what it is and just wait for the bigger picture in the MMO!

[Vodage]

Lol Zidders, wrong forum

I don't like your idea. It has the same exact flaws that WoW has, gear > skill.

I play WoW, and I've actually had players tell me that skill > gear, after seeing me heal them through an instance with barely enough item level to enter it. Although superior gear allows the player to win despite more mistakes//less knowledge of their class and spec, it isn't absolute. Having a good sense of strategy and a godly skill rotation can often make up for what you lack in terms of equipment/items.

[Acrylik]

that just sounds like it's trying to be wow or rift with more restrictions..

why not think of a cool way to do it. no.. even better. gangsta fresh. (i here by promise to never say that again on the forums.)

what if they made everyone start with neutral stats and had certain equips on the map you could pick up, like a fps?

or if they gave a set amount of gear you could pick for pvping, and that it would upgrade to levels equal to your opponents at higher levels. then you could be matched against those opponents with your arsenal of gear. you'd basically level up and be granted the gear to be used, on par with who you where fighting. give better players more tools to use?

or they could put jetpacks in the game. jetpacks make pvp balanced.

[amb2010]

Lol Zidders, wrong forum

I don't like your idea. It has the same exact flaws that WoW has, gear > skill.

I play WoW, and I've actually had players tell me that skill > gear, after seeing me heal them through an instance with barely enough item level to enter it. Although superior gear allows the player to win despite more mistakes//less knowledge of their class and spec, it isn't absolute. Having a good sense of strategy and a godly skill rotation can often make up for what you lack in terms of equipment/items.

Rather late reply but we're talking about PvP. You get Ruthless gear in PvP for WoW and you're a force to be reckoned with, even if you just faceroll your keyboard. In PvE, especially in WoW it's a cake walk regardless of your gear. Even more so in a heroic where you *need* a set ilvl as you said. Those markers are basically "get this gear and you can do this dungeon". It isn't a "Get this ilvl+100 to do this dungeon". You can get that ilvl right on the dot and still do the dungeon, that's how they're designed. That said, get full Firelands raid gear as a healer, then have a healing competition with someone that doesn't have even 1 piece of raid gear. Who wins? Obviously the one with full raid gear. Gear > Skill.

[starsg]

One solution i opt for is having all skills in one char. There will be no one specific class to begin with. But as you level up, u get to build up to your play style.