Pure caster vs Ordrak

[LordGarth]

Hey,

When I finally get to Ordrak with my pure wizard build (either taking Lighting or Bolt) I find I cannot beat Ordrak without dying.

I'm currently level 32 and have fairly good gear (I think). The issue is, I can't cast fast enough to drop all those dragons that he summons. Ordrak himself is a cake walk. I'm thinking if I found Web that could really help me out, but I haven't found it as yet.

Is there a strategy for this portion? Heavy anti-flame resist is key, but what else? Just using your Staff and going to town on them?

I play on XBox so no mods.

[belgarathmth]

I feel your pain. My game just ended at the entrance to dungeon level 30, so I can't even test my build against Ordrak.

What happened was that the entrance to the floor got populated with a mob of six dragons all breathing fire at once, 3 or 4 regular Dark Zealots (nerfed by a mod, even), all firing poison bolts and lightning at once, and a Dark Zealot champion doing her thing, plus so many Lurkers and summoned Skeletons that I can't even see the floor. I have no hope of ever withstanding that onslaught long enough to even reduce their numbers. I can't run past them, because there are other similar mobs just beyond their position.

What a bummer! I'm disappointed in the game, now. This is a case of the random spawning causing a problem. If the enemy mob had spawned just a little further from the entrance, I might have been able to establish a perimeter, but now my game is impossible. Even gaining several levels and then going back won't help in this case.

It's not worth it to spend so many hours building a character who survives easily through 30 dungeon levels and 32 character levels, only to be stopped by a random spawn point too close to an entrance.

[Zidders]

The game has its flaws. Runic has admitted that. That being said, the next game is going to make up for a LOT of that, and add a lot on top of it that was very much needed. As far as the game being a dissapointment..you obviously enjoyed it up until level 32, is the fact that you cant go one with that character SO distressing that it completely wipes out every single bit of fun you might have had along the way? Have you tried looking into mods? There may be mods out there that can help balance things a bit better, mods like the tier three mod, things like that.

There may be some forum members here who can help you think of something. All is not lost! At any rate, please don't look too unkindly on the unpolished gem that is the first Torchlight.

[belgarathmth]

Heh, you're right, Zidders, I had enormous fun getting my alchy to level 30. I guess I just felt like whining because I lost.

I don't mean to hijack Lord Garth's thread. He was asking for advice for an alchy vs. Ordrak, although I guess he and I have both fallen to dragons and are in similar boats - neither of us could beat the end of the game with alchys.

While waiting for Torchlight 2, I think I'll lick my wounds by playing my old Titan Quest ternion attack toon. I need to feel strong again. Perhaps it is actually a compliment to Torchlight that it can beat an experienced player. I kind of wonder though, how anybody has beaten the end game with an alchy on VH softcore, much less VH hardcore!

[Sortajan]

Level 28 caster in somewhat decent gear; points invested in Ember Lance, Critical Strikes, Armor Expertise, and Offensive Spell Mastery (there are others, but they didn't help with this fight); Elemental Overload and Haste were my spells of choice for that fight with Ember Lance being the only thing I really used. I beat him, but it took like ten to fifteen minutes for me to whittle his health down. I died about ten times before my final attempt. My strategy was pretty basic: Elemental Overload, Ember Lance until he summons (drink mana pots as needed), then run from his minions picking up potions as you go. Haste when they're on your heels. If it's just skeletons (as it sometimes was) I just swung my beam around in a 360 circle and tore through them. When he unsummons them, repeat.

When I say it takes patience, I don't mean it takes a steady hand; I mean it takes a LONG time, with very little interesting going on. My credit card expired before the bastard died. I probably downed several hundred of both types of potions, and my pet may as well have stayed up on level 4 with Brink.

[LordGarth]

On the Xbox, he doesn't summon skeletons; only a boatload of Dragons.

I had some good offensive spells. Perhaps haste would help but I don't think it would help that much. I had Elemental Overload and Dervish at high levels, with offensive mastery's to buff them up.

I'll try again soon (I had moved this month, so much is still in boxes). Really enjoyed it, but found Alchemist didn't have a good solution. The summoner alchemist build just ripped through everything; beat the game by lvl 27 on VH SC. Pure Wizard having a tougher time. Maybe a hybrid is the way to go; even a handful of minions with Thorned Shield should do quite a bit of damage to an end boss like Ordrak.

[Acrylik]

every class has some sort of escape abilities.

with the alchemist you need to ember phase.. a lot.

they despawn after a certain amount of time from what i remember, and near the end it gets seriously intense.

try to just keep them away from you with ember bolt and lure them all around the map. when you get the chance elemental overload and dervish to spellcast spam at ordrak, u can do it.. i managed to kill him on vhsc without dieing on the first go in my unmodded game (i had respec mod)

was a couple levels higher than you tho.


and who cares if the boss fight is hard.. don't you guys remember diablo the first time you encountered him in d1? before all the duped crap started appearing? dude wasn't easy. neither was the butcher. it shouldn't be imo.

[Arkham]

and who cares if the boss fight is hard.. don't you guys remember diablo the first time you encountered him in d1? before all the duped crap started appearing? dude wasn't easy.

Personally, I beat Diablo pretty easily with a Rouge who had all-legit equipment. Not that it was really easy, but it wasn't altogether difficult either. And I heard that the Sorceror would get remarkably powerful at the endgame as well.
I think Diablo was really just hard for the Warrior, due to the whole "need to get close enough for D to claw you to death" aspect of that class.

[Acrylik]

well yeah exactly. same with ordrak, if you chill and let him or his minions wail on you then you'll die.
if you kite them then you're fine. same goes for ordrak, theres just a ton of minions you have to run from for a bit.

[LordGarth]

Ember phase isn't good on the XBox. You don't have a mouse, so you can't click where you want to go, just a direction (and with the stick it's a bit of a guess).

Kiting minions doesn't really work as they move as fast as I do. I'd ahve to find some +speed gear, and weaken what gear I have.

The summoned minions do indeed despawn; sometimes quickly, sometimes not. And sometimes he summons more minions. It isn't that the boss fight is hard; it's that I feel I don't have a tool to win in my belt, barring grinding up some levels and getting better gear. Although for many tha'ts the appeal of this game.

For me, I'd rather have the option of trying to beat something at lower level, and possibly being able to due to good strategy.

[dreamrider]

Build up and try it agin at level 35, or 38.
32 isn't an impossible finish point, but there is no shame in building up a little more to get through a particularly deadly chokepoint.

In particular, build up some Adv Spellcasting and any castable AoE, so you can show up, devastate a zone with spammed blaster-effects, withdraw, breathe, pump up, then go back to get the few surviving boss types. Hitting any fire breather and lady lightning caster early and often is important, as they are very interruptible.

dreamrider

[Perictione]

I think Diablo was really just hard for the Warrior, due to the whole "need to get close enough for D to claw you to death" aspect of that class.

First I apologize for taking the thread a bit off-topic... but how often am I going to get an opportunity to yak about one of my absolute favorite videogames? Well, not often enough! So... ignore the rest that follows, friends and neighbors, if you're not into 'Diablo'; skip to the bottom where it looks a bit more interesting.

Problem: The warrior squares off against Diablo, and often gets punted, right? Yes, and no. Diablo's fast attack can really play hell on a warrior's equipment - not only is stun lock a bitch (though it is admittingly hilarious when you manage to stun lock an opponent), but having one's best magical gear break on the lowest level in hell is pretty much a one way path to certain doom, especially when those damn succubi and gold worms are trotting about.

Solution: After losing more than one good warrior to Diablo, I eventually discovered the most obvious solution: a fast blocking shield and a warrior with high dexterity. Combine this with a judicious use of the 'Firewall' spell, and it's ho-hum, I think I'll just stand here and watch Diablo die and die again. In Nightmare mode, you may have to poke at Diablo once in a while... just to speed up the process a bit, you know... and in Hell mode it helps a lot to poke at him, otherwise Diablo's dying takes a while. And that silly bugger in Hell mode has a lot of hitpoints to burn, whereas the warrior does not.

Either way, it's a done deal.

So, again, find a shield with fast block, and preferably one that's of high durability. Stormshield was a terrific find, though its overall stats were not all that impressive.

And, now, back to 'Torchlight'....

In the past, I've mentioned the Alchemist is probably the character class I least enjoy playing as it seems to me it's the class that's the weakest, having exceptionally poor spell range and the least-interesting range of skills. Though some of the wands are nice - I quite like my buffed Epic Hand of Fate: it gets the job done at least - the notion of a skill being partially dependent on the power of an item is a mixed blessing at best.

Though it is possible to defeat Ordrak using a straight-up Alchemist without dying once, I've found it frustratingly challenging in both Hard and Very Hard, whereas I've romped over Ordrak with a Vanquisher and Destroyer many, many times: usually after 12 hours of game play, Ordrak's pretty much toast after just one round of 'Your powers are no match for mine! Gurk! Arrrrgggggh!... followed by sinister albeit hard to hear chuckling that suggests Ordrak is mainly but not completely dead; with the Alchemist, it's usually around 15 to 16 hours that I'm (relatively) ready to take out Ordrak.... but even then it's a toe-to-toe onslaught with an uncertain outcome.


- P.

[zekrom]

In the past, I've mentioned the Alchemist is probably the character class I least enjoy playing as it seems to me it's the class that's the weakest, having exceptionally poor spell range and the least-interesting range of skills. Though some of the wands are nice - I quite like my buffed Epic Hand of Fate: it gets the job done at least - the notion of a skill being partially dependent on the power of an item is a mixed blessing at best.

Though it is possible to defeat Ordrak using a straight-up Alchemist without dying once, I've found it frustratingly challenging in both Hard and Very Hard, whereas I've romped over Ordrak with a Vanquisher and Destroyer many, many times: usually after 12 hours of game play, Ordrak's pretty much toast after just one round of 'Your powers are no match for mine! Gurk! Arrrrgggggh!... followed by sinister albeit hard to hear chuckling that suggests Ordrak is mainly but not completely dead; with the Alchemist, it's usually around 15 to 16 hours that I'm (relatively) ready to take out Ordrak.... but even then it's a toe-to-toe onslaught with an uncertain outcome.

hmmm. i dont get it. can u please explain how it is weaker than vanquisher. like - do you mean damage or survival?

and yeah even with an alchemist, looks like it is possible to beat ordrak in VHHC. omnicide did it with a melee build.

[Vomaxx]

Why is the Alchemist weaker than the Vanquisher? Well... last night my Alchemist, level 34 on Hard, faced Ordrak. About half an hour later--at least it seemed that long--he killed Ordrak, but unfortunately he had died nine times while doing this. Whereas the last two Vanquishers I played--one Hard, one VH--killed Ordrak on the first try.

I had not played an Alchemist before, and he did make it to Ordrak with no deaths other than one unfortunate side dungeon where the sliding doors got him twice and a mob two more times. (It didn't help that I failed to notice that I had run out of health potions of one type and failed to put another type on the 1 key.)

Really, fighting Ordrak with my summoner Alch. was absurd. No way to raise Imps because all the dead disappear and Ember Lance (level 7) had about as much effect as throwing tennis balls at him. Maybe my golems finally got him.

Back to a Vanquisher.

[Perictione]

Back to a Vanquisher.

Ahhhh, another player converted.

<Mr. Burns Voice Mode On> Excellent.

- P.

[zekrom]

Why is the Alchemist weaker than the Vanquisher? Well... last night my Alchemist, level 34 on Hard, faced Ordrak. About half an hour later--at least it seemed that long--he killed Ordrak, but unfortunately he had died nine times while doing this. Whereas the last two Vanquishers I played--one Hard, one VH--killed Ordrak on the first try.

ahh... i know that alchemist is harder to play. but no one is mentioning the exact problem... so r u saying that alchemist wasnt dealing enough damage or didnt have enough survival skills......or is it just weaker for some "mysteriously incomprehensible" reasons?

[Vomaxx]

My alchemist was just not doing enough damage. Deprived of the imps, he had two golems and one pet only. Ember Lance was weak. Undoubtedly I could have done a bit better if this were not my first alchemist--a couple of deaths at least were caused by my being slow in using Ember Phase, and I should have had a spell to raise zombies (etc.). But I was disappointed by his inability to inflict real hurt on Ordrak for a long time. And this was at Hard level--I can't imagine what VH would have been like.

I might add that since Ordrak this alchemist has reached Level 50 (where I think I'll retire him); he got down to Shadow Dungeon level 18 and died (just) three more times, so perhaps I got better at using him.

[zekrom]

My alchemist was just not doing enough damage. Deprived of the imps, he had two golems and one pet only. Ember Lance was weak. Undoubtedly I could have done a bit better if this were not my first alchemist--a couple of deaths at least were caused by my being slow in using Ember Phase, and I should have had a spell to raise zombies (etc.). But I was disappointed by his inability to inflict real hurt on Ordrak for a long time. And this was at Hard level--I can't imagine what VH would have been like.

I might add that since Ordrak this alchemist has reached Level 50 (where I think I'll retire him); he got down to Shadow Dungeon level 18 and died (just) three more times, so perhaps I got better at using him.

ahh...now thats a good answer. and totally true,alchemist does very less damage unless you play summoner style. vanquisher has the potential to do about 6 times the damage done by arcane or melee alch. but as far as survival goes, they should be equal. alchemist died 9 times bcoz he dint do enough damage to kil ordrak fast enough.